Is flying the national flag racist? - Page 2

garinda · 15-06-2010, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Garinda, I know you've put this thread up to prove a point to me. But, I never said that flying the flag was racist. What I said was, that in my experience the only houses who fly the Union Jack permanently tended to be BNP. I visited those houses and was told by them who they vote for.

I'll take a bet that all the people who have voted that it isn't racist do not fly the flag permanently. You said yourself that you wouldn't fly it permanently, perhaps you should start.

And this is where the contradiction is. If everyone flew the flag permanently then it would lose any of those connotations, because the flag itself is not racist, but unfortunately people don't and won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I wish it were simply a matter of national pride but I agree with Rosebud it's been hijacked by people with a more political agenda.

The only time you can get away with flying the flag these days is during the world cup or if Henman were to have won more than one match. Shame!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

When I was campaigning the other year I just knew to stay away from houses with the union jack flag flying outside - and yes there are a few in Ossy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I remember saying that and I do stand by it - but I do think it's a different situation during the World Cup when everyone reclaims the flag from the racists thugs who have abused it for their own use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Unfortunately a certain group of people took the Union Jack and abused for their own racist purposes to the point where regular, normal, patriotic people got too scared to display the Union Jack for fear of looking as though they belonged to a racist sect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Unfortunately, I think you're in the minority if you don't believe that a house flying the Union Flag isn't doing it to make a specific point, other than simple patriotism.

The point of the poll wasn't to prove anything to you.

I wanted to see what other people thought.

From what people have posted the majority of people seemed not to think the way you do about the Union Jack and the Cross of St. George, and I wanted to see if this was backed up by a simple poll, which I tried to word as fairly as I could.

Happily the connotations about the flags being seen as a sign of right-wing extremism, aren't shared by the majority of people on here. Which makes your view the minority one.

Gayle · 15-06-2010, 08:12

So after the World Cup is over, I assume everyone will continue to fly their flags with pride. I look forward to seeing Oswaldtwistle festooned with flags permanently.

Ken Moss · 15-06-2010, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

So after the World Cup is over, I assume everyone will continue to fly their flags with pride. I look forward to seeing Oswaldtwistle festooned with flags permanently.

St Peter & Paul's Church in Rishton flies it permanently from the spire and it is a magnificent sight when you drive into the village from either Whitebirk or over the tops.

It's just another little thing to be proud of when you come home.

garinda · 15-06-2010, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

So after the World Cup is over, I assume everyone will continue to fly their flags with pride. I look forward to seeing Oswaldtwistle festooned with flags permanently.

A few did last time, until the whole carnival started again, for the Euro 2008 football tournament.

The point is, the majority of us, if we did see someone flying the flag year round, wouldn't necessarily label that person as being a right-wing 'thug'.

I didn't think that four years ago, and I still don't.

cashman · 15-06-2010, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

So after the World Cup is over, I assume everyone will continue to fly their flags with pride. I look forward to seeing Oswaldtwistle festooned with flags permanently.

Probably many will not, i think ya are trying to justify yer view to yerself. most brits don't fly the flag never have, aint the british way it seems, do you think those peoples views don't matter?

if the poll is any indication at all, the majority sure don't see flying the flag as racist, speaks volumes to me.

garinda · 15-06-2010, 08:29

Apologies if the links to the photographs of The Jam with the Union flag don't work. That nice Neil is hopefully going to fix them.

Here's another, of the decidedly anti-racist group, complete with Union Jack from the seventies.

cashman · 15-06-2010, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I'll take a bet that all the people who have voted that it isn't racist do not fly the flag permanently.

I'll take a bet, most ordinary folk dont fly the flag full stop, also take a bet most racists don't fly the flag either. by focusing on racism as a reason to fly the flag, is the sorta thing the "Press" do, cos theres no mileage in good publicity.

jaysay · 15-06-2010, 09:15

Can't say I've ever flown the flag myself mainly because I've never really had anywhere to stick it really, ground floor flat windows aren't recommended, and its only over the last twenty years or saw that lying the fag during these events

cashman · 15-06-2010, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Can't say I've ever flown the flag myself mainly because I've never really had anywhere to stick it

I'll tell ya were to stick it.

jaysay · 15-06-2010, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

I'll tell ya were to stick it.

I was toying with saying exactly what you'd say (in brackets) in my original post, I was spot on

oh by the way up yours too

Burningman · 15-06-2010, 15:15

National pride is a wonderful and sadly vanishing trait, as is "pride" (love of excellence) generally.
People were once "house proud", had pride in one's appearance, proud to wear a school uniform and yes, proud to be British.
We have devolved into mediocrity as a birth right and the concept of pride is a virtue not a vice.
I live 6000 miles from my home and was proud to fly the flag on Saturday during the game to show my support.... I even left it up after that mediocre lame ass-clown let the sodding thing slip through his hands.
Pride is sometimes a heavy crown....

Eric · 15-06-2010, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Of course it's not and this is the only country in the world where the question would even be raised. Just asked Mrs H what she thought and she genuinely didn't understand what the hell I was on about, as pride in the flag is simply part of the national psyche where she comes from.

Sure a minority of racists and knuckle draggers have misused the flag for their own ends, but it's the navel-gazing PC types, indulging in endless bouts of liberal guilt who've brought us to this.

I think I'm with Mrs H on this one .... I just don't get it

Maybe the Americans (you know, those guys that lots of you seem to criticize at any opportunity) have it right. The right to fly a flag is guaranteed under the First Ammendment to the Constitution .... it's called freedom of expression, an idea, by the way, which should be well entrenched in Britain, the home of modern democracy. That same ammendment also guarantees a cititzen's right to deface or burn the flag; so, they have it covered at both ends: patriotism and protest.

And I'm flying the English flag for the World Cup; Fern, my Portuguese neighbour up the street, is flying the Portuguese flag. We have something in common at the moment: a less than stellar start to the competition.

mattylad · 16-06-2010, 06:47

We in the UK also have the right to fly a flag.

It will only be planning depts that can complain ifa flagpole is erected, but As far as I know we are
allowed to erect a flagpole and fly a flag.

g jones · 16-06-2010, 22:31

No. I don't think it is. I believe the PM should have raised the Union flag, not St George. Customarily there is more than England at the finals. Interestingly if just Northern Ireland qualified, would the PM fly the Irish St George flag give the high value of the tentative peace deal?

garinda · 16-06-2010, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

No. I don't think it is. I believe the PM should have raised the Union flag, not St George. Customarily there is more than England at the finals. Interestingly if just Northern Ireland qualified, would the PM fly the Irish St George flag give the high value of the tentative peace deal?

National support is always a tricky one.

In the 1974 and 1978 World Cup, when England didn't qualify for the finals, we all supported 'home' UK team Scotland.

I was living in Glasgow for the 2002 World Cup, and the whole of Scotland supported whichever team was playing against England. Shops sold out of our opposition's strip, and flags. Bars were packed with Scots cheering on our foes.

I guess the English are just more magnaminous than the other countries in the Union.

I posted earlier that I've never flown a flag. I was wrong. We once had a boat which had a flag pole, and I spent two months spending money buying a Red Ensign to fly from it.

The next time I'm all at sea, I'll run it up again.