morallity and employment

[Margaret Pilkington]

I won't be the one to try and persuade you otherwise.

[Sunflower49]

Originally Posted by cashman

Are yeh sure? theres one or two cabbages on here.

lolol!

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Just because you are unable to perceive what the plant experiences doesn't mean that it doesn't have 'conciousness'.

That is true. We are unable to perceive many things about plants. However we CAN perceive things about animals, they demonstrate their feelings and ability to feel pain and suffering very similarly to how we do. As I KNOW animals suffer, I make my moral choices.
I do not KNOW that about plants, it may be that they feel as much as animals do, or perhaps they do not. That's the difference for me.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

lolol!

That is true. We are unable to perceive many things about plants. However we CAN perceive things about animals, they demonstrate their feelings and ability to feel pain and suffering very similarly to how we do. As I KNOW animals suffer, I make my moral choices.
I do not KNOW that about plants, it may be that they feel as much as animals do, or perhaps they do not. That's the difference for me.

As far as I can remember plants don't have any kind of nervous system so they don't "feel" anything. They do move towards light and send out roots to search for water and nutrients but they don't do this "consciously". They are extremely complex and quite fascinating but they don't have a consciousness.

[Less]

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

i was reading on another thread regarding morallity and employment

i decided to start a new thread rather than hijack that one

if you where on benefits, and they told you you had to take a job, that was against your moral/religous beliefs, would this be acceptable?

would those beliefs, outweigh those of "claiming benefits", some have no moral problem having state handouts, whilst others dont see it as a right and do have.

at what stage do your morals have to take a"back seat", or would they never and irrelevant of the consequence you would always take the moral high ground ?

We do seem to have got lost in the many diverse opinions more of lifestyles than morality and employment.
The simple answer I suppose is that if you feel something is morally wrong and you refuse the job you may have to face further consequences such as having your money stopped for refusing work.
There are many people within engineering that wouldn't for example work in the armaments industry, that is their moral right, I don't know if it is their legal right though.
I have no qualms so far as that is concerned I would build anything from a control panel for a drinks production soft drinks or alcoholic line, to the doomsday machine, so I wouldn't be placed in that dilemma, I wouldn't condemn someone else that took the view that this would be morally wrong for them so long as they didn't try to stop me from working and putting food on the table.

[Sunflower49]

Originally Posted by mobertol

As far as I can remember plants don't have any kind of nervous system so they don't "feel" anything. They do move towards light and send out roots to search for water and nutrients but they don't do this "consciously". They are extremely complex and quite fascinating but they don't have a consciousness.

This is what I believe also. I am open to new learnings, and if it comes about that plants DO feel more than we think, then I will have new decisions to make.
We do know that animals have consciousness and feelings , though. That's what makes the difference for me

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by mobertol

As far as I can remember plants don't have any kind of nervous system so they don't "feel" anything. They do move towards light and send out roots to search for water and nutrients but they don't do this "consciously". They are extremely complex and quite fascinating but they don't have a consciousness.

That was what your botany degree taught you at the time you took it.



A lot depends on how broad your view is of 'conciousness'.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

That was what your botany degree taught you at the time you took it.

A lot depends on how broad your view is of 'conciousness'.

Chemical reactions and a few electrical impuses don't amount to a consciousness as far as I can see -interesting documentary though - plants are amazing and varied things and are absolutely necessary in the general scheme of life as we know it.

[Less]

What's to do? didn't the thread go along the way the starter planned?
Was he expecting a big get together of we hate the unemployed and instead got a majority that would rather talk about anything else?
It's a difficult subject, but surely, we can discuss 'morallity and employment', no matter how it's spelt?

[churchfcrules]

where on this planet, do you see my opening statement as an invitation/encouragement of "lets attack the unemployed"?

as i stated it came directly from a post that one member had made in another thread, and it raised a question, i didnt want to hijack that thread so started a new one.

as for the current way the thread has gone, i have no issue at all with thread wanders, any reference i make to them, is a nod to those members who like to use the term when they dont want to answer something, or just use t as an excuse to end a discussion.

i have been unemployed, i have had help from the government in raising my 4 children, i also believe strongly in a cradle to the grave system.

i Have spent more of the tax payers money, than i have paid in (probably, when you take into consideration benefits,education,health**

so why would i want to have a big get together of the unemployed?

or was it just another of your classic baiting/trolling?

[Less]

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

where on this planet, do you see my opening statement as an invitation/encouragement of "lets attack the unemployed"?

as i stated it came directly from a post that one member had made in another thread, and it raised a question, i didnt want to hijack that thread so started a new one.

as for the current way the thread has gone, i have no issue at all with thread wanders, any reference i make to them, is a nod to those members who like to use the term when they dont want to answer something, or just use t as an excuse to end a discussion.

i have been unemployed, i have had help from the government in raising my 4 children, i also believe strongly in a cradle to the grave system.

i Have spent more of the tax payers money, than i have paid in (probably, when you take into consideration benefits,education,health**

so why would i want to have a big get together of the unemployed?

or was it just another of your classic baiting/trolling?

I hadn't, but you've left the thread alone, it could be a good thread if it's kept going.

I was just giving you that spur to continue what you started. not so much baiting or trolling just wondered why when you started such an interesting thread did you leave it alone?

P.S. I in a sentence aught to be a capital.

[Restless]

Watch out for the grammar nazis. No thread is safe

C'Mon lets not start arguing again. Happy thoughts.

[cashman]

ought it?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Restless

Watch out for the grammar nazis. No thread is safe

C'Mon lets not start arguing again. Happy thoughts.

Bullshine, start a thread that had potential then back off?
What good is that?
I don't want to argue, I want the thread kept alive, come on starter give us more thoughts.

[churchfcrules]

Originally Posted by Less

I hadn't, but you've left the thread alone, it could be a good thread if it's kept going.

I was just giving you that spur to continue what you started. not so much baiting or trolling just wondered why when you started such an interesting thread did you leave it alone?

P.S. I in a sentence aught to be a capital.

2 reference to spelling and grammar, i am not applying for a job or writing a thesis, therefore lots of mistakes go through, also send a lot via iPhone and that can be fun too, however what does it have to do with anything, when the sentiment of what i said still got there, i am sure i have read on this forum that we dont bother about spelling and grammar, its a little petty dont you think, or as i say its just more baiting, guess we get bored when people get banned.

and it was more of a troll, questioning if it hadnt gone they way id hoped, then making up my hidden agenda

so there you go, work done for the evening, you can put your feet up now, i bit (well had a little nibble)

[Restless]

Originally Posted by Less

Bullshine, start a thread that had potential then back off?
What good is that?
I don't want to argue, I want the thread kept alive, come on starter give us more thoughts.

Was equally aimed at churchfc