Widening Rhyddings Street
 

Article in this week-ends Observer Friday 32st Dec 04 page 12
"£8,000 scheme to widen street will benefit residents"
Hyndburn Council are set to spend £8,000 widening Rhyddings Street in Oswaldtwistle.
St Andrews ward Councillor Brian Walmsley welcomed the scheme.
He said "This is great news for residents in this area who have been struggling with parking issues for some time now."
"The enhancements will make the area much safer and will enable emergency vehicles to access the street if needed" end of article.

Anyone have any info on this, living on Park Lane, emergency vehicle access to us has been a problem for years, even more so, now that the Council has stopped Rhyddings street(top end adjacent to park gates) residents from parking on the grass verges.

Whilst I am not knocking any street improvements, I would be interested to know what the "enhancements" are.

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HBC must be getting short of streets to put sleeping policemen on, so no doubt by spending £8,000 (don't panic this is only the estimate I'm sure the true figure will be two or three times this!) to widen the street. So, by widenening the street traffic will flow more efficiently & they will be able to apply to the E.U. for a grant for traffic calming.

How does widening a street make it better for parking any-way? I would have thought that to fit more parked cars on a street it would have to be lengthened? Or am I just being stupid?

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Hi

Nice one but not really the answer I was looking for. As indicated in previous post, HBC have effectivly made the top part of Rhyddings st. narrower, by stopping residents from parking on the grass verge, so with cars parked on each side of street.......wow don't try to get up there with anything bigger than a mini, you will take the sides off the parked cars.:rolleyes:

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Errrrmmm, let me see if I have got this right. HBC narrow the street to stop people parking and then decide that Emergency vehicles cannot get access, so in a burst of public spirited zeal they decide to widen the street to overcome the access problems that they created in the first place. What was it that "Barking" Britcliffe was saying just before Christmas... something about being careful with money....?

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Thats about right!

Rhyddings street is blocked off from Catlow Hall street upwards towards the Park, from Hornby street(which is the next one up) Rhyddings street has grass verges at each side. The residents of this section used to park part on the road part on the grass verge, so access to Park Lane was not to bad, but HBC in their wisdom re-turfed the verges and placed signs " NO PARKING ON THE GRASS" only 6 months ago, so now the residents park totally on the street thus making the road narrower, and access to Park Lane very difficult.
Now HBC are planning to widen Rhydding street does that make sence.
Hope I have explained this OK

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True, neither can I :confused:

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And there proposal in widening the street is not being supported by there offical road planner......... He said that it is not a good solution and illegal(?)

But britcliffe likes the idea so it is being pushed through... Just to see britcliffe in action is an amazing sight.......Idiot is being VERY polite..

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Quote:

And there proposal in widening the street is not being supported by there offical road planner......... He said that it is not a good solution and illegal(?)

Is that an assumption on your part or quoted from information given.

From information given to me last night "They are proposing to alter the section that they altered 6 months ago " :confused:

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How can it be illegal for the council to widen a street? The car owners need somewhere to park and I have every sympathy for them.

Where I live we have a problem as it is near a junction with double yellow lines. The people whose houses are by the double yellow lines can't park outside of their own houses and so they park outside of someone else's - the result being that we all tend to play musical vehicles with nobody actually getting to park outside of their own house, or only if they are very lucky, very quick, or get home when everyone else is still out.

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Hey tell me about it, I think it is a problem every where. People park adjacent to road junctions, on single yellow lines.

I can remember years back I got fined for parking to near a road junction, but the police don't seem to bother these days.
Most of the side streets are gridlocked with parked cars and it is a major problem. Some look like the have just been abandoned :eek:

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Sure I saw an article in a recent Observer where the local bobby, and a headteacher were concerned about parents parking adjacent to a school,"it was causing a hazard", think it was Great Harwood. The boby went on record, indicating that if the practice did'nt stop the offending cars/drivers would be booked. :D

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they will probably just tarmac the grassed areas so you can park there! £8000?

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May be the "Boys from the Black Stuff" could do it cheaper :D

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Does any-one other than me find it strange that one of the only streets in the whole of the Hyndburn area that a councillor seems to care about people being able to park on is also the same street that contains a large Conservative Club? After all it wouldn't do to think that the members of the said club should have to be inconvenienced by not having some-where to park nearby.
:rolleyes:

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Tut Tut,:eek: which one of the "Councillors" are you refering to, I think there may be more than one that takes his refreshment there :D
Thought that was where they held the "oswaldtwistle area council" meetings :rolleyes:
May be thats why the project has been given the go-ahead :D

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From the horses mouth park381.....

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Fair do's then, we will have to wait and see what happens :cool:

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when you say no parkin on the grass ! does that mean you have to eat it indoors?

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wonder if this is being payed in irish sterling?

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http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4322 they must have more money up ossy than the whole of hyndburn!

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WayHey............we got the "Leader of the Council" livin here:D
Whats that old sayin.............NO GOOD HAVIN A DOG........................ :D

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I'm confused by that link. :confused:

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Whats confused u, the old saying :confused: thats simple

Its no good havin a dog, an barkin yerself :D

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Oh, this is the topic "Widening Rhyddings Street", yes I see your confusion "Play Centre"
may be someone thinks they are going to put a "PlayCentre" in Rhyddings street :confused:
Now I am confused

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more money being spent up ossy!what it is if they dont spend what they have got then there budget goes down next year so they come up with the hair brained idea of digging roads up and p....ng the members of the public off,or lets build a stone outside canteen that the kids can wreck outside the co-op.

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what they are doing is,,putting in wider curbstones so the grass does not get damaged and will hopefully stop the residents form argueing with each other to the point that the polics are called and on several occasions!
hope this explains things better!

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it wont, if you read it again and think, people can then park in the same place, therefor not damageing the grass!!!
they park like that so a fire engine can get up!!! see simple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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There are notices there now stating "No parking on the grass", plus the term used was "Widening Rhyddings street", plus there are trees on that section of the street, are they going to take those up.The figures quoted for the project was £8000
As for fire engines no chance unless they bump the cars out of the way, there was an ambulance called to attend a heart attack victim several weeks ago, it took a full 25mins for the vehicle to negotiate that section of the street.

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its about time simon got his facts right before he starts mouthing

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hehe..... What’s that all about? Not a very nice thing to have said in your first post as a new member.

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I am very sorry about the way my first message was worded. First of all the Area Council meeting is not held at the Conservative club it is held at the Town Hall. The widening of Rhyddings Street has been going on for years. Now is the only time they have got any money for this to be done. Also I have been informed from a good sorce that it is not illegal to put down the curb stones. I would like to know what parking at the top of Rhyddings Street has anything to do with having parking for the Conservative Club which is siuated at the bottom of Rhyddings Street.

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Considering it was Park381 who started the thread, and Less who referred to the conservative club I'm more than a little curious as to why your first visit to this message board was an attack on Simon. As for the reference to the illegality of the kerb stones (please note they are kerb stones, not curb stones) that was a quotation of something said by the council's "official road planner" not a point of view expressed by any member here.

Perhaps you, SHE, are the one who should get their facts right before "mouthing off"

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i have to agree with you on this one SHE, the meetings are held at the town tall, but i did not know it has been going on for years, as for the curb stones i think your right, its not illegal to put them down but its more illegal to park on any grass verges if there are signs up! as for some one saying con club,councalers(i know that is spellt worng)and meetings we all have to go somewhere for a drink! AND to park 381, i have herd about an ambulance being called up there but my details are a bit thin as yet but will find out more!!!

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The legality of the kerb stones may well depend on where they are being placed.

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ok, my spelling my not be up to scrath but i will get in toutch with my contacts to find out the rules on the stones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This is purely conjecture on my part (inspired by fencing disputes) relating to the statement that the road had been narrowed at one time by adding grass verges. It would appear that the grass is therefore on an area which was once roadway as opposed to pavement. If the kerb stones are now to be placed between the grass and the road are they possibly in the middle of what was once all road rather than at the edge of the pavement area? Perhaps this is what called their legality into question?

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Now that I know you have CONTACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I for one will not doubt anything you say in future.
:stupid:

:dork::dork::dork::dork::dork::dork::dork::dork::d ork::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl38::rofl38::rofl 38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

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To shed a little light on the subject.My first post was a result of an article in the Observer relating to a plan to widen rhyddings street, it was found to be the top section adjacent to the park.
This plan came 6 months or so after PB and his sidekick Cllr W had spent council money on repairing the grass verges, at the same time notices were put up stating " Do not park on the grass" This work was done following consultation with the residents of that section of rhyddings street. Some of the residents wanted the grass verges flagging over so they could park their cars, others did not, they wanted to retain the verges. The net result was that when all residents cars were parked you needed a shoe horn to get through to park lane, making it more inaccessable to emergency vehicles.Myself and several others complained, I even emailed PB about the subject.
Then 6 months down the line, the article in the Observer, council plan to spend £8000 on widening rhyddings street, with Cllr W indicating in that article that " there has been a problem there for years, now residents will be able to park their cars at their own front doors, and emergency vehicles will have better access"
Point, Rhyddings park, the entrance and area leading to (top section of rhyddings st.) is in a conservation area, and as such will require planning permission before any alterations take place, I would assume that Simon had been talking to a planning official, or someone from the council, before making his comment, hence " from the horses mouth"
I hope this explains everything, as yet nothing has been done to alter a dangerous situation for the residents of park lane.

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Thanks for that Park. I'm puzzled by aother thing now which perhaps you or Simon could clarify. That area being a conservation area I was wondering when the grass verges were put there. Was that before it was classed as a conservation area?

I think if I lived there I would prefer the option of having a paved area to park on rather than the grass because it must surely get messed up in wet weather and be a problem getting across it to the car without trailing mud. I find Avenue Parade can be a problem when you park there and have to walk across the grass bit. At one time there used to be several parts where there were stepping stones but they seem to have disappeared over the years.

I'd have thought that access for emergency vehicles should take priority. It could be a matter of life and death and what's more important human life or grass?

Oh, and in a conservation area who gives permission for what can and can't be done? Isn't that the council or is it down to some higher authority? If it's the council then they probably gave themselves permission to put the kerb stones in.

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Hi, the grass verges have been there for a long time, my neighbour has old photos of the park and area leading to and the verges were there then.(will see if I can get hold of some and post them on here)
On the conservation area bit, before any thing is done the HBC planning dept. would need to be involved. Yes I agree life is more important than parking cars.
Just found this on Ossy Gobbin website, its a recent photo, but before the "no parking on the grass" notice
http://www.ossygobbin2003.fotopic.net/p864374.html
Mike must have spent many hours on this lot.

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I wasn't thinking so much of cars versus lives as grass verges versus lives. The cars have to be parked somewhere. Paved area sounds like the best solution.

I'm beginning to realise that although Oswaldtwistle is so close there is a great deal about it that I don't know.

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Yes, if the grass verges were "flagged" over then cars could park easier, and it would have the effect of widening the street.
If you have a browse through some of Mikes photos, I am sure you will find many interesting views on there.

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Where do I find Mike's photos? Mike who? Are there some old ones? I have to go out now so I'll have a look when I get back. :)

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Mike is an Ossy guy lived here all his life, and has spent a lot of time taking and collecting pics of Ossy, you can find his website here.
http://www.ossygobbin2003.fotopic.net/p864374.html
There are many interesting and old photos of ossy and district on here, Mike must have spent many many hours on the project.
After viewing Mike's photo site, it prompted me to look at fotopic, I found that you could store your digi pics on there for free, so I have done the same I store my walk pics on there, you can also order prints of the photos, very handy

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I would like to reply to your comment about having the verges flagged. This was not asked for it was cobbles they were asked for and were told it was to expesive. I have also been talking to council about planning permision.

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Just to shed a little light on what the leader of the council actually stated was going to happen on Rhyddings Street.

There are currently 9" kerb stones at the edge of the road. The council ( that is Councillors Britcliffe and Warmsley ) proposed that more 9" kerb stones will be placed next to the current ones between the trees only. The idea is that cars will park with wheels on the kerb stones. This is supposed to make the road wide enough for emergency vehicles. Unfortunatley it looks like no one has actually measured the road. Just to prove point park381 measure the gap between the two cars parked at the top of rhyddings street (where it is narrowest) when they are both on the current kerb stones. Then add 18" to that measurement (the 2 extra kerb stones). Pop down to the Fire Station and measure a fire engine. Lastly explain how the fire engine will then fit up Rhyddings Street after the £8,000 has been spent.

It is extremely unlikely that this strange parking scheme will ever happen. Who in the road planning section of the council is going to impliment a parking scheme that forces cars to illegally park on the kerb? Even with the extra width the space between parked cars does not comply with the current standards. If the road planners were forced to come up with a plan they would only have two choices - yellow lines on one side or remove the verges completely and make parking bays/widen the road/. The later would cost in excess of £100,000 .The road drainage would have to be moved and brought up to standard as would the new section of road, the trees would of course have to be removed. All this in a conservation area, I doubt it.

Just for interest can you please explain what the fire engine is going to do when it gets to Rhyddings Park gates - have a picnic - because the engine will not fit down Park Lane.

Sorry about my long first post but several people appear to have a view on this subject, most of which know only a few of the facts.

Re: Widening Rhyddings Street
 

Hi Neil.

Can you shed a little more light for me please? Is there any other way for emergency vehicles to access Park Lane? What happens if there is a hous eon fir there? or if someone needs an ambulance?

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Possibly by using the back ally behind Rhyddings Street. It gets you a bit further along Park Lane and is wide enough for the monsterous bin wagons that use it every other week. Plently wide enough for an ambulance and probably for a fire engine.

You cant get down Park Lane with any emergency vehicle - except maybe the Paramedic cars

Re: Widening Rhyddings Street
 

That is an interesting point about parking on the kerb you mention. I am not sure if you are around at 3.30pm ish. Just watch the parents pushing prams having to use the road because someones Shogun is parked on the footpath at the Fielding Lane end of Park Lane. Or look at the corner of Rhyddings and Park Lane to see other cars doing the same. Road is for cars - footpath is for pedestrians! Not to mention a certain gentleman you refer to as BW - his 4x4 is also often seen parked on the footpath outside his house on Catlow Hall Street - a law breaking councillor whatever next?

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Ah now there's a thing the back ally, which end are you refering to rhyddings street end, or fielding lane end. Cause both are at right angles to the "park wall" and due to the width of park lane you will not turn a vehicle out of those back allys on to park lane, other than a small mini. Plus those allys are usually blocked of at Hornby street with parked cars.
On the monsterous bin waggons, they reverse up the back allys from Hornby street
On the distance you will gain by using the back ally = 1 house width, that a great reduction if you live near the ends of park lane
Neil are you resident in the area?

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I am a resident yes. I was not suggesting turning out of the back ally. Just using it to gain access. I am sure that neither fire engines or ambulances would get down Park Lane without wiping out all the cars.

I hope you dont live on the corners I mentioned

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Cllr Puppet. I dont know if you ever go to the Area Council Meeting but it's embarasing watching PB working BW's strings. :)

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Take your point but not a lot of distance gained, we have had ambulances on the lane but the last one took 25mins to get from fielding lane to the house in question, and that was in response to a heart attack, the person is actually ok.
No I don't live on the corners you mentioned.
Another point, the kerbs on park lane used to be nearly level with the road so people parked half and half, thus the road was wider.

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Was the footpath raised? They are making a mess of "repairing" the footpath on Park Lane.

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How do you get an ambulance down Park Lane? It looks like your problem is worse than on Rhyddings Street.

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All it would take is to move the park wall back 10 feet :D. HBC must put a price on the Health and Safety of its residents

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Dream on, you mentioned the figure of £100,000 to rectify rhyddings street, think you're lookin at a lot more for that project :D
Not only that HBC have "A duty of care" under the H&S guidelines:eek:

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When meetings were taking place with the council and Rhyddings Street residents the council (PB) stated that the future of the top bit of Rhyddings Street had nothing to do with people on Park Lane, except the top two corner houses because the side of there houses are on Rhyddings Street. When asked if Park Lane residents could attend the final meeting called by the Works Department ( Mr Law ), they said no. Even though the meeting was called on Health and Safety grounds ie. emergency service access.

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That sounds about right for PB,I have sent off emails to our leader regarding the subject and the health & safety implications. 2 sets of double yellow lines + the green caps (wardens) would solve the problem of access to park lane but it would not solve parking problems for the residents of the top section of rhyddings street.
May be it will take a major fire on park lane to sort it out. God forbid that.

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A snippet from the Area Council minutes

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/a...tid=3285&stc=1

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Has Inspector Platt ever visited, to explain the implications of parking on the verges?
PB was told at the time that he had created a major hazard.

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Unfortunately I am going to have to defend Cllr Britcliffe on this one*.
He did not create any hazard's on Rhyddings Street.
All he did was to stop people distroying the grass verges in a conservation area by irresponsible and illegal parking by residents and people visiting the park.
The hazard you refer to is caused by those same irresponsible residents who insist on parking on both sides of a narrow street.

If vandels were destroying trees in the park would we not expect the council/police to do something about it? Of course we would. So what is the difference in protecting the grass verges.

(* hiding behind the sofa to avoid all the flames and hate mail)

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I suppose someone has to defend him.
Had there not been consultation with the residents of that section of the street, and was the end result, residents could not agree, some wanted the verges, others wanted them paved over to allow for parking. Was there a vote by residents on the matter?
In all the time I have lived in the area residents have parked on the verges, as you say that was a little irresposible of them,but at least it left room for emergency vehicles to access park lane.
Could that be some of the residents that wanted the verges paving over, to allow them to park, whilst leaving room for emergency vehicles.
Vandals have damaged items in the park, trees as well, but to date nothing has been done.The damage done to the stonework in the rose garden was given headlines in the Observer, as has a lot of other damage, again nothing done. Take the park gates as another example, they are chained in the closed position, why because they are not safe.
Why would anyone want to do that,the discussion is a fair one and I respect the points put forward, it would be a sad day if anyone had to resort to that.

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PB assured us that there are no resident only parking schemes in Hyndburn and that was not an option for Rhyddings Street.

The so called "parking scheme" would create 10 parking spaces. That is 1 car between each tree, 6 trees on each side. Parking on 1 side of the road you can fit 8 cars if people park carefully. That is only 2 car parking spaces less. All this fuss for 2 parking spaces.

I wonder how much in expenses have been claimed by cllr's for all the meetings that have taken place :).

There would be plenty of parking space on Hornby Street if it was not for all the transit vans, flat back trucks etc. Maybe these vehicles should not be allowed to park in a busy residential area.

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Sorry, firstly I should have clarified that one, I should have added to other areas,"other areas of the country".
I knew there were none in hyndburn cause have asked the same question of PB, the answer was, it would cost to much to administer?
Would go along with your suggestion, would seem to be the logical answer, this would leave access for the emergency services, and only 2 cars to sort out.
Mind HBC don't think about logical solutions :rolleyes:
As for the Cllr's x's am sure you are correct.

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When the said houses were built, cars weren't part of the equation. With the width of these houses not much wider than the average car, there is no chance for those households that have two or more cars in some cases to park anywhere near their homes.
They could always park them on the temporary carpark on the site of the old Co-op and walk, until they build the Church there that is:)

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Well said Garinda :)....Why do people become allergic to walking more than 20 feet because of the love of the car.......

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Think you got that in 1, choose your prize :D

So what's the answer for our area taking that as, rhyddings st, park lane, hornby st, and to some degree fielding lane.Where can people park/leave their cars and know they are not going to get vandalised by the yobs.

Think there would be a major problem if HBC went mad with the yellow line paint :)

May be this is why HBC are knocking down terraced houses, to make way for new housing that must have allocated off the road parking spaces, in order to get planning applications approved.

Has anyone got an answer to this problem?:confused:

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Yes 2...:)

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And two legs ;)

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Terraced..........:)

And my building society acc No is ***** ************

Just CALL next time you want me to make a comment ;)

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Sorry Parc911 but I could have sworn that this thread was entitled "Widening Rhyddings street"..

What gives you the right to accuse someone of not reading the whole thread when you can NOT have any knowledge of what I have and have not read??????

I have read the whole thread and live close enough to be affected by this.. A lot closer than you I can bet.. but of course will check with you the BOSS of this thread first in future...:(

Ps Thanks a lot for the negative Karma :)