Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 591413)

Some members are interested in pursing attacks based on party lines, ones which are completely unjustified. Throwing accusations around

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz (Post 591405)

Cards on the table, 90% of what I've said here is satire and sarcasm, so please tell me if you seriously consider 42 days of needless social harm, government distrust and potential for massive governmental abuse worth your goddamn time. Read my summary again and respond - ask yourself if it's worth selling our kid's futures down the river just so we can lock up anyone who disagrees with us. I guarantee that if this law passes it will be abused in the future.

And quite frankly, if you're not satisfied with what you're saying you haven't thought about your own opinion enough.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 591413)

In reflection, what an absolute, utter waste of my time this has been. A lot of the members are not interested in having an informed, intelligent, discussion. No, in contrast they want one driven by emotion. Driven by rubbish that those of us who seek to defend liberty, who seek to take pragmatic approaches to legislation, are somehow putting our national defence, no lets use the word, lives, of women and children at risk.

Some members are interested in pursing attacks based on party lines, ones which are completely unjustified. Throwing accusations around.

I have never seen such ignorance before. Not because people agree or disagree with me, everyone is entitled to take their side, but because of the method of doing so. The method of provocation, the method of playing dumb, the method of winding the opposition up by hawking on with even more emotive lines, avoiding any logical discussion. Some members know only too well there is not an ounce, not one trace, of evidence to support their views, but yet they continue because emotive language is popular, but it is far from right. We only need to look to America, where the population will happily give away any freedoms they wish, all the government need to do is repeat the words 9/11 until they have every single one of them bowing down on their knees.

I legitimately mention Muslims, because they are the majority of people affected by this legislation. I get shouted down for it, because the Act doesn't aim to single anybody out. Well just take a few minutes to sit in reality and think, who is actually affected the most by this legislation? It does not take a brain surgeon to work out that it is completely relevant, that is why it was debated today within the House.

I have not a shadow of a doubt, that if the people being ignorant over issues here, were detained themselves, for innocent purposes, as the majority of the people convicted under this legislation have been. They would not be arguing for the indefinite detention of suspects and sleep walking into a big brother state where we nod away our freedoms whenever the government tell us we should.

That is it. I am out.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 591462)

Nice resignation speech.

Good to see you aren't a quitter.:D

Originally Posted by blazey (Post 591418)

That would just show majority of forum users, not majority of people in this country in general!

Silly man.

I agree that there should be more than mere suspicion, but sometimes you have to follow gut instincts and detain someone even if you have nothing solid other than a first impression.

I find this issue hard to decide upon because I don't agree with the original Act as such in the first place, so I'm pulling out of the debate on it too until I have more knowledge on it.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 591462)

Nice resignation speech.

Good to see you aren't a quitter.:D

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 591517)

yep know its to go through "Lords" thats were it will probably fall i think unfortunatly, majority of tory dead heads n buffoons in yon.:D;)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 591517)

yep know its to go through "Lords" thats were it will probably fall i think unfortunatly, majority of tory dead heads n buffoons in yon.:D;)

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 591574)

So now we all know the price that this government puts on our priceless freedom; it is £1.2 billion! This is the amount that Gordon Brown agreed, despite his protestations to the contrary, to pay for the DUP's compliance in last night's vote. It is the amount that will be realised from the sale of ministry of defence bases in Northern Ireland, which was to have been retained by Whitehall but will now go to Stormont. And for what? As Blazey pointed out earlier, this bill will not get through the Lords. The government might try invoking the Parliament Act to force it through but strictly speaking since this is a security issue they can't legally do that. Then, of course, there is the good old European Court of Human Rights, I am sure that they will have more than a page or two to say on the matter.

There is no way that this bill will ever get on to the statute book. That being the case you have to ask why the government are so determined that it will succeed. The answer is plain - what would have happened to Gordon Brown had the vote not gone the governments way? This is pointless legislation pushed through parliament with little thought simply in order to prop up a lame duck administration and a failed Prime Minister.

Good on David Davis - I hope he is returned to Parliament with an unassailable majority!

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 591574)

So now we all know the price that this government puts on our priceless freedom; it is £1.2 billion! This is the amount that Gordon Brown agreed, despite his protestations to the contrary, to pay for the DUP's compliance in last night's vote. It is the amount that will be realised from the sale of ministry of defence bases in Northern Ireland, which was to have been retained by Whitehall but will now go to Stormont. And for what? As Blazey pointed out earlier, this bill will not get through the Lords. The government might try invoking the Parliament Act to force it through but strictly speaking since this is a security issue they can't legally do that. Then, of course, there is the good old European Court of Human Rights, I am sure that they will have more than a page or two to say on the matter.

There is no way that this bill will ever get on to the statute book. That being the case you have to ask why the government are so determined that it will succeed. The answer is plain - what would have happened to Gordon Brown had the vote not gone the governments way? This is pointless legislation pushed through parliament with little thought simply in order to prop up a lame duck administration and a failed Prime Minister.

Good on David Davis - I hope he is returned to Parliament with an unassailable majority!