Originally Posted by blazey (Post 591627)

Why do you think the powers under the Parliament Act 1911 aren't going to be used? If the government want this bill passed, they'll pass it. Your only hope is the Queen, and as a hereditary monarch you have about as much chance of me becoming the next prime minister than the queen refusing it.

Yes the Lords can delay it, alter it, move it around a bit, but chances are it'll be passed with the same principles unless someone can say it is in breach of human rights or whatever, and this is highly doubtful :p

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 591574)

So now we all know the price that this government puts on our priceless freedom; it is £1.2 billion! This is the amount that Gordon Brown agreed, despite his protestations to the contrary, to pay for the DUP's compliance in last night's vote. It is the amount that will be realised from the sale of ministry of defence bases in Northern Ireland, which was to have been retained by Whitehall but will now go to Stormont. And for what? As Blazey pointed out earlier, this bill will not get through the Lords. The government might try invoking the Parliament Act to force it through but strictly speaking since this is a security issue they can't legally do that. Then, of course, there is the good old European Court of Human Rights, I am sure that they will have more than a page or two to say on the matter.

There is no way that this bill will ever get on to the statute book. That being the case you have to ask why the government are so determined that it will succeed. The answer is plain - what would have happened to Gordon Brown had the vote not gone the governments way? This is pointless legislation pushed through parliament with little thought simply in order to prop up a lame duck administration and a failed Prime Minister.

Good on David Davis - I hope he is returned to Parliament with an unassailable majority!

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 591413)

In reflection, what an absolute, utter waste of my time this has been. A lot of the members are not interested in having an informed, intelligent, discussion. No, in contrast they want one driven by emotion. Driven by rubbish that those of us who seek to defend liberty, who seek to take pragmatic approaches to legislation, are somehow putting our national defence, no lets use the word, lives, of women and children at risk.

Some members are interested in pursing attacks based on party lines, ones which are completely unjustified. Throwing accusations around.

I have never seen such ignorance before. Not because people agree or disagree with me, everyone is entitled to take their side, but because of the method of doing so. The method of provocation, the method of playing dumb, the method of winding the opposition up by hawking on with even more emotive lines, avoiding any logical discussion. Some members know only too well there is not an ounce, not one trace, of evidence to support their views, but yet they continue because emotive language is popular, but it is far from right. We only need to look to America, where the population will happily give away any freedoms they wish, all the government need to do is repeat the words 9/11 until they have every single one of them bowing down on their knees.

I legitimately mention Muslims, because they are the majority of people affected by this legislation. I get shouted down for it, because the Act doesn't aim to single anybody out. Well just take a few minutes to sit in reality and think, who is actually affected the most by this legislation? It does not take a brain surgeon to work out that it is completely relevant, that is why it was debated today within the House.

I have not a shadow of a doubt, that if the people being ignorant over issues here, were detained themselves, for innocent purposes, as the majority of the people convicted under this legislation have been. They would not be arguing for the indefinite detention of suspects and sleep walking into a big brother state where we nod away our freedoms whenever the government tell us we should.

That is it. I am out.

Originally Posted by shillelagh (Post 592000)

Thank you cyfr/andrew b for calling me ignorant.

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 591895)

So the freedom of 60million people has been sold,freedom we have fought for for centurys.King John must be turning in his grave,if it's not been sold on. Still it can still be blocked by the House of Lords and as most of the cabinet have probably paid thier deposit for their retirment gravy train they will likely think twice before overturning a Lords defeat.If not can i book myself in for Nov. and the first 2 weeks of Dec.and will it affect my benifits.:hidewall:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 592017)

times are changing .if it saves innocent lives im all forit . in king johns day when they persecuted you you probably ended up dead .if they arrest you now you you have a better survival rate than you did in those days:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 592036)

By the way, the poll is private.

I was too busy trying to word it fairly, and fit in the relevant words, I didn't tick the appropriate box.

I thank you.:D

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 592044)

Good I am glad you made it private, I think you get a more accurate response.

Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 592083)

28 days and even that is too long to be banged up without being charged.

The Police State is just around the corner.