Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

am guessing you have a better chance of a response when he's online ? ;)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Bernard you know i like you .... i always speak to you when i see you dont i .... :D:D:D

Mind you i do have an excuse ... im not too well today ... :D:D:D whats your excuse for being the same as me? :D:D:D:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Thank you for your first ever post, and for sharing your ringing endorsement.

Personally, having seen how the said person has acted recently, I beg to differ.

Still, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King, and if someone of that low a stature appeals to you, so be it. Thankfully I have higher moral standards, and am more likely to endorse Rosemary West.

Now, here's your guide dog's lead, and careful as you go.

Ciao.

:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

....and so very rude.:eek:

Normally we get a nice introduction.

Mummy, great aunt Fanny, fellow student at some great centre of learning...or even Hull.

:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Come on Rindy, gotta admit I was hoping for a bit more topic -focussed response rather than the easier 'friend' of Andrews attack

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

It was the talk of the wash house tonight....or in this case the Accy Web meet. The arbiitrary editing of posts to strengthen a woefully weak argument, if someone isn't quite in agreement.;)

Very noble, and very in the spirit of that noted libertarian and freedom fighter, David Davis.

Oh to put so a convincing argument, that I was as popular.

:rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Let me focus my eyes a moment.

You're lucky I'm not posting Cantonese.:D

Besides, I think it's sweet, and certainly worth noting that someone actually agrees with him for a change...besides Mummy.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Yes.

Terribly 'unprofessional' of some people..

They should be thrown out of.............oh, wait.

What professional body are they a part of?

I don't know why, but I'm suddenly seeing a lovely box of buttons.

But sadly, some of those buttons aren't as shiny as they ought to be.

I'm just happy you actually picked up on the insults...that at least is some sort of progress.

:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Not entirely sure I said that I agreed with him, more disagreed with some of the posts that have been made.

I'll take part in any debate, and I always hope to maintain an open mind when a decent enough argument is made. Unfortunately, not as many people appear to be able to hold their side in a dignified and polite manner, something I have commented on whatever the title of the thread, or which side is posting

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Sadly for us 'the opposition' don't feel able, besides those on the periphery or at the end of a phone line, to weather the swells and troughs of a debate on a public forum.

As opposed to you, I'm more than happy to see some members of one party at least try to answer our questions and worries.

As for manners, anyone that refers to someone at a public meeting as a 'silly cow', doesn't have any in my little book of manners.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Nor in mine, but having been brought up with the phrase ' if you have nothing good to say, say nowt', I think sometimes a dignified silence is the way to go. Or even just a silence in any case lol

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

A one Angela Curwen. A friend of Andrews on Facebook.

Attachment 13449

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

That's funny.

I was hinting at something similar earlier in the thread, when I said I'd do the P.R. for Councillor Britcliffe.

'The next time you chose to ignore the recommendations of an independent panel, and decide to award yourself a massive allowance Peter, keep your mouth shut, and don't start bleating to the press about tenners and hot dogs.'

'Keep it zipped.'

No headlines.

'No public outcry.'

'No threads on Accy Web about expenses.'

:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Er...yeah right love.

Don't know what planet you're from, but it's as clear as muddy moon dust that it obviously ain't workin' on here, judging by the posts for and against.

Perhaps you could de-cyfr it for us, and translate blind idiocy into reasoned, and logical thought, rather than the shrill, obessive rantings of a blind man.

Stature?

I take it you ain't aquainted?

His stature mirrors his wee physical height.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Sorry for the patronising use of the word 'love', by the way.

I just presumed you were a boy.

;)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

seems very weird to me, how total strangers to accyweb suddenly appear from nowhere occasionally n immediatly defend Andrews corner, no introduction, no tentative first few posts,etc reminds me of " Rounding Up Cattle" maybe andrews a cowboy at heart.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: that or he thinks everyones a dipstick.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I'm not a very demanding person, and specified no time scale for the evidence to be submitted.;)

Though I fear I should have, when waiting for proof of these 'Labour lies'.:rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

It is odd.:rolleyes:

I'd genuinely be ashamed if I felt I needed such backing.

Happily my Mummy and close friends only endorse what I say when I'm talking sense.

Otherwise they'd luckily tell me to stop making a total prat of myself.

Our fiercest critics are often those telling us as it really is, and not those nearest and dearest, telling us what they think we'd like to hear, or what they think is needed to further our cause.

Personally I'd be truly mortified to be in need of such backing.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Already posted, pay more attention. :) Have you been getting out the wrong side of the bed this week though? A lot of your posts are particularly nasty, didn't really think it was your nature to say some of the things you have been.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Nasty? got out the wrong side of bed?.. you Tories have been more than simple nasty for hundred of years... you blab on the same line of freedom and equality while at the same time are.. and always have been corrupt...underhand.. a disgrace to this country that is known all over the world.. not only in Accrington!
You people feed on lies and propaganda.
Whoever you are I say you are scum...and should be deported!

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Oh bye the bye I'm not a "floating voter"

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Not at all.:)

Let's just say I've seen a different side to you recently, and I've discovered you are someone I certainly wouldn't trust.:)

I used to afford you the benfit of the doubt, now I don't.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Well that's lovely Garinda, as I've been entirely truthful. Never mind that, I wasn't just referring to myself. I don't think lack of trust in somebody means you should be nasty to them, nor do I think disagreeing with them means you should be nasty.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I'm sorry...that you think I've been nasty.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

What side was it you think Andrew showed?.. I'll say at least he has been on the wrong side from the start... typical tory.. nice words and hugging but cut you to the bone if you are a union member or dare to attack Thatcher...he has been consistant and I sussed him out from the start.. a right wing Tory no matter what.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

As I've been entirely truthful, your lack of trust in me I'm unsure where it comes from. I do think I may have seen another side of you, I always saw the side of gentle Garinda, having a bit of political fun. I don't really see that in some of your posts recently, they're very personal at individual members.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I don't think I've posted anything that's broke the forum's rules.:rolleyes:

(Well besides thread wandering, but as you are perpetuating it, that must be okay...in this instance.;))

Nor do I recall posting anything that wasn't already in the public arena.:)

As I said, I used to put you obsessive shrillness about certain topics down to youthful enthusiasm, after more careful consideration, and by what I've seen for myself recently, that's no longer the case.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

'With the economy plunging deeper into recession, and inflation likely to drop below 0% into deflation, the CBI has warned that the “overwhelming majority” of its members will freeze wages this year.'

'Tens of thousands of other private-sector workers are also likely to see their earnings slashed. Several professional firms have reduced salaries by 20% by putting employees on a four-day week.'

'A snapshot survey by the British Chambers of Commerce shows that 30% of businesses are planning to cut working hours. David Frost, its director-general, said: “Across the country I am hearing more and more businesses left with no choice but to freeze and cut pay.'

“It is unacceptable that the public sector should not share any of this pain.''

Pay freeze looms for millions - Times Online

Perhaps he should have added, after his last comment, 'unless of course you are the Conservative Leader of Hyndburn Borough Council, in Lancashire'.

'His basic allowance has jumped from £17,032 to £19,842, but he is also allowed to claim allowances for more than one special responsibility, which has led to the extra £5,000 he can claim.
This equates to a whopping pay increase of around 20 per cent.'

Expenses rise sparks fury in council chamber - News - Accrington Observer

'They approved a 49 per cent rise in their overnight stay allowance.'

Council makes a meal of rises - News - Accrington Observer

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Andrew over the last few weeks you appear to have set out to discredit by whatever means (and some of your means have been very underhand) Graham Jones. I don't have any problem with you being a Ultra Right Wing Tory, but to stoop tot the level you have done recently is completely unacceptable in my book.

I know you will say that this post is because I am a member of the Labour Party, but if I thought Graham had done anything underhand or wrong I would be the first to let him know. Despite Graham explaining the problems he encountered last year - and he is to be commended on how he looked after his Grandmother, (whilst holding down a Full Time job and doing all his work as a ward councillor and running for re-election to Hyndburn Council). Do you think you could do that? Frankly I don't think you could - maybe if when you are no longer a student (paid from from my taxes) and you enter the real world, you might appreciate just how hard working and honest, people like Graham Jones are.

Rant now over with.:):)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

It's very easy to take the moral high ground from the safety of the ivory tower that is higher education, rather than the much more brutal world of reality.

The real world where people are struggling to fed themselves and their families, and juggle what little money they have to pay their Council Tax bills, and directly fund such shamefully massive pay increases that some councillors have decided to award themselves.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

No doubt Graham is a hard working councillor for his ward. I don't think he could run the council though as his politics of hatred that he portrays on this website, would get in the way. I don't have a problem with you mistakenly thinking I'm an ultra right wing Tory. Why are you not condemning Graham for trying to discredit me? He posted about a member of the public using the freedom of information act, and used vile name calling, slurs, and accused me of conspiring with somebody I had had no communication with over the issue. He even went further and involved his personal family issues, as a way of calling me a nasty person who lives and breathes gutter politics, despite the fact that the reason I requested the information was nothing to do with his personal situation. By all means he can explain his expenses legitimately using it, but to attempt to attack a member of the public for it is wrong.

It's very easy to make this more than it is, it's very easy to pretend that there is some big Conservative conspiracy to ruin Grahams name, but it's simply wrong. I'll always just post the truth, Graham could have come to me and asked if I had requested the information, but he decided to go ahead anyway and try to drag my name through mud without understanding any of the facts fully. He hates Conservatives so much that he can't see past it to think logically.

I like AccringtonWeb, it's a nice place, I like the community, I like discussing politics, but when councillors come on and accuse members of the public, we shouldn't get shot down for defending ourselves.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Andrew -I know you have explained that you requested the information for 2007-2008 as it was the last year that information was available for - however if you were doing a piece of research, surely you would need previous years to compare the information too. As just the figures for the one year would not really prove anything - it would not show whether the expenses had increased or decreased, if one person appeared to be claiming more (or less) than previously, which are surely very important in properly conducted research. Before you try to negate my assertions - I was once a student - so I do know about research - but maybe students of history are taught to be more methodical in their research methods than students of politics.

As for politics of hatred - you need to look no further than the present controlling group on hyndburn council - who over the last few weeks have gone out of their way in public meetings (the last planning meeting being one of them) to verbally abuse and discredit Graham. In fact the outburst at the last planning meeting was even more ironic, because the chief instigator of the abuse actually left the meeting early - very ironic as they had accused Graham of leaving the meeting (between items on the agenda) and showing disrepect to the meeting. Ok Graham had left the room -but no one tried to find out why - he might have only needed to use the toilet.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Take a close look again i think youve clearly broken the rules :rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Claytonender I've already explained that even if I wasn't doing it for university research, I think freedom of information is a perfectly legitimate thing to request, without having a backlash from councillors on a public website. I got a sample of 2007-2008 to see if it would be useful (not that I should have to explain myself), thus far I can't see a place for including the expenses information anyway, it's not as useful as I thought it might be, as the sample is so small because most councillors do not need to claim.

I haven't been at the planning meetings, but if the controlling group have been abusing Graham then that's wrong. There is no reason why Graham should come here and abuse and discredit a member of the public though, it's not justifiable. Perhaps Peter and Graham are as bad as each other, I don't know, what I do know is it's Graham who's then going on to try to discredit me, which is especially surprising if he doesn't like it being done to him at council.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

A Freedom of Information Act that was installed by a Labour administation... and was a good act.. the Tories like to play around!

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Not a good act if you get condemned for using it

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Care to give an example?

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Perhaps if someone like that fair minded and august publication the Daily Telegraph digested all the facts, we'd be more likely to get a a thorough investigation, and a more complete picture concerning all the facts.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Originally Posted by turkishdelight
Take a close look again i think youve clearly broken the rules

do you mean "The rules" ..or the Tory party rules...like don't suck an orange with a plastic bag on yer head?

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

No one has said that Graham dislikes it being done to him, as he is very capable of standing his corner, just pointing out that certain high ranking Tory members are abusing Graham in public and then doing exactly what they have accused him of an hour later.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Still waiting.

Can't think of any myself off the top of my head, besides thread wandering, as I pointed out myself, but since this seems to be officially sanctioned because it's been perpetuated by a moderator, this now seems acceptable, in some cases.

I won't give you a time scale, considering there's an awful lot of my posts to read through, but I look forward to seeing some sort of evidence to back up your claim.

:rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Garinda the warrior:)Give me a time scale how conciderate you are really i thought that was beyond you. Read the forum rules the evidence is clear, then you may have some understanding as to why you have broken the rules.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I know the forum rules very well, and can't think of any I've broken other than thread wandering, as I pointed out, and which we are both doing now, by the way.;)

You claim to know I've broken the rules, but seem unwilling to give an example. I wonder why? Shouldn't be too difficult to back up your statement.

It isn't against forum rules to come to the conclusion that someone isn't quite the full shilling.;)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Just one example in that statement alone.I will spell it out to you. Clearly Rude to a member of he public.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

I'll say no more.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Which statement are you spelling out to him?

his post has three statements clearly defined by being placed in separate paragraphs.

Or is this a new forum game, 'guess which statement I'm spelling out to you?'

http://planetsmilies.net/confused-smiley-17432.gif

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

The third statement in this case and many others throughout these threads.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Pretty sure thats not a forum rule :confused:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

You have a strange sense of humour thats all i can say.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Im absoulutely sure it is.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Yes, it's such a bind...having one.:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Thank you, for spelling it out for me, though the game could have lasted a bit longer if you had allowed others a chance to guess!

http://planetsmilies.net/confused-smiley-17433.gif

Is it my turn now or are you the one setting the questions?

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I can only assume that to prove you right it is being written in as we speak ;)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Why did that remind me of Wikepedia? :D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

:rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Im sure it is.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

given that you seem so hot on people breaking forum rules, why may i ask have you chosen "Not" to comment on my earlier post, demonstrating how i thought andrew had broken them:confused: Biased n Hypocritical spring to mind.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Womans Weekly and People's Friend never prepared you for membership here did it?

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I'm amazed that Tukish Delight, being a fair-minded and unbiased individual, hasn't seen fit to post just how many times I was rudely interupted during my budget speech on Thursday night, so much s that my 11 year old daughter wanted to tell Peter to grow up and stop acting like a 5 year old.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Dear Auntie Marge, I'm finding it difficult to make new friends in the environment I have now placed myself, is there some sort of rule of thumb I should be applying? One nasty person suggested having the brain in gear before posting would work very well what do you think?
http://planetsmilies.net/confused-smiley-17434.gif

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

yah forgot to add the sarcastic smiley Clare.:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Yes good point. I did think about that one and questioned it. I was infact informed that this was not a breech of the forum rules, however i dont know if this is correct. One would have to speak for themselves on that issue.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Now I'm totally confused. You are adamant that a rule that doesn't exist does exist, but a rule that was broken doesn't exist ? :confused:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

well as i posted the forum rules n since have learned that the party whose number was posted was "NOT" aware, i think it is very very wrong to make assumptions that he would not mind, therefore i stand by my comment,it is a Clear breach of forum rules, n far more implications to it than the one you harp on about.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

If we were allowed to speak for ourselves there would be no rules and therefore no need for moderators, however we all are human and do get over enthusiastic, which is why we have rules (or as I would prefer to call them guidelines), which should but aren't always adhered to by most of us, however it should be seen that a mod/admin is bending over backwards not only to stick to the rules but also, not be biased when applying them to others.

So would you as a 'sensible' person agree that a mod/admin starting a thread should voluntarily dis-allow themselves from deciding what is correct and incorrect in a thread they have started?

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Yes Clare I will only speak the truth no matter what political party is involved you gave a good informative speech that evening, you where indeed rudely interupted and i myself would have taken much offense to this type of behaviour it should not be tolerated by either parties, we are all individuals at the end of the day and have the right to be treated with respect. If i could have spoke on that evening i would have stated that it was out of order and i also didnt like the terms used to another refering to That Women.I would also like to say the idea of gates on the alley ways was brilliant hope you can implement this in the future.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

And equally, you could have gone to Graham and probably Clare, Joan and Bernard who all post on here to ask your question without going through Freedom of Information.

I hate to point this out but you and Graham are far more alike than either of you would like to think. I know that you're both extremely passionate about what you believe in but the name calling and pettiness on here doesn't do either of you or your causes any favours.

You both seem to want the 'truth' but then can't accept it if someone else's 'truth' doesn't match your version of it.

Two wrongs don't make a right!!!!! :D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

My point is just as important to me.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

i never said yer point was not important to you, i said the "implications"were far more, i would have thought you as a "Professional" person would have grasped that.:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Good post Gayle, i am prohibited from sending karma though!

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Good point, I think one of the main differences is that I don't hate people for their political beliefs though. ;)

As for PM'ing, as I was one individual he could have done that. For me it would have been silly to message the councillors that use this forum and then single out every other councillor when I went and applied for my FOI. It makes much more sense to do it all at once, and may I add that by doing it through a FOI request or by doing it by PM, it does not launch it into the public in the way that Graham decided to do by posting it on this forum.

You could have emailed each councillor and asked them if they would send you the information. By requesting the information that way, you could have stated that you were asking every councillor for the information for research for your studies. As I was not a councillor in 2007-2008, I only became aware of the FOI from Accyweb, then received a call from another Labour member, who thought that they were the only person you had requested information about and asked if I knew who you were.
You have only added to the "conspiracy" theory by starting this thread-implying that Graham was abusing the use of his HBC provided mobile phone.



Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Seem to remember that idea being raised at the beginning of the FOI thread several times? :rolleyes::)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Am I correct in thinking that Alleygating is something that Labour have been trying to implement for at least 6 years, especially in springhill and Central:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Yes it is - I think there has been aan attempt to get an order implementing it but it was requested under the wrong legislation and turned down . Sounds about right doesn't it:rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I really don't think Graham hates anyone because of their political belief either, just as I don't think you do either. Just like you he defends what he believes in and sometimes that means defending himself against personal attacks, which just like you, often look as though they are directed at one person who appears to be attacking them.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Perhaps you have all the time in the world to waste time e-mailing everyone individually. I don't, and I'm perfectly happy using the freedom of information request, to send one e-mail (actually 2 in my case as I did not make my first clear enough), which your government made available.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

That's fair enough Andrew, you chose the most direct route to get what you wanted.

Equally, Graham chose the most direct method to reply to you and chose to make things public at the same time.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Reading his post he never actually said anything about anyone. Maybe you are getting confused and reading things that are not really there :rolleyes:

Here is a funny story one of the lads at work told me at work, I don't think its relevant to this thread but it just popped into my head for some reason and thought it might make people smile.

His manager had been annoying him so he asked the manager if he told him he was being an effin person who works in a bank (words changed because we are a family forum ;)) would he get into trouble?

The manager said that yes he would get into trouble.

He replied what if I was only thinking it in my head, would I get into trouble then?

His manager said no, how can you get into trouble for only thinking something?

He replied I am thinking you are an effin person who works in a bank :D:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Never mind, one Nectar Point doesn't get you much anyway. :)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I have said many times my relatives are Conservative on all sides. They would virtually all vote for me though because I don't tell lies and because I stand up to people like yourself.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

And I'll say it again. I am a member of the Labour Party (in Hyndburn) because we stand for positive things. What we have achieved is very good. Excellent when compared to the ideas and achievements of local Conservatives.

My message is - don't measure ourselves against the last 10 years (Conservative), all that represents is failure (show me the successes?????). Measure ourselves against the decade's before when something was achieved.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Sorry Andrew but you continue to be deluded to the facts.

I kept my private life private when you were point scoring attacking Labour for not putting a budget out 12 months ago (40 uncosted ideas). When you raised my mobile bill last week I had to explain why (my personal life as a carer) because you asked the question.

I can't abide people who tell lies Andrew.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Can we not all agree to disagree .... and all shut up bout it all. Its getting boring now.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I haven't told lies Graham. Can you retract calling me a nasty person then? Your personal life is perfectly acceptable as a reason for your high phone bill, as long as it's paid back to the council. Calling me nasty whilst also telling us why, implies that I requested the information knowing your circumstances. In actual fact, it's not at all nasty to simply post your expenses.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Would you buy a used car off either of these men??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I couldn't afford to own one in the first place. :D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Im not the one confused at all sorry beg to differ on that one.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Can we bring the thread back on subject now please, and deal in facts?

It's a fact the Conservatives on Hyndburn Council chose to ignore the recommended allowance limits set by an independent body, and award themselves a massive increase.

No evidence appears to have been dug up on the other councillors by use of the Freedom of Information Act on everyone else's expenses, so on that fact it's indefensible.

Now it seems the bare facts are being hidden in threads realating to this scandalous greed, by trolling.

It's also fact that the newspapers are currently full of stories of people having to take pay cuts or go on short time, and they are the lucky ones who haven't already lost their jobs.:(

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I have come to the concusion that this thread is nothing more than a personal crusadel and tub thumping exercise
The FOI is there for all to use should they wish to do so and if it so important for self learning get on with it.
I have been called a troll by you on several occasions and have brushed it off, the meaning of the word troll seems to be a word you use to be clever.
I have looked at your hidden in threads sinario:
Expenses thread 388 Posts.......Garinda 80 Posts next best 41.
FOI thread..........Garinda 262 Posts next best 147.
It seems that you have taken over the roll as self appointed chairman and tub thumper. :rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

good old fashioned rumble in the jungle:D dont worry theres nothing wrong with a good few debates in fact its good for the soul,it also shows how civilized everybody on accyweb is,by not resorting to threats violence etc..:enough:as i retort a good debate is good for you:)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

yer only saying that cos he has ya on ignore.:D

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I think I really must be missing something here. Surely the FOI means that people have a right to request for whatever reason.

Hell I could request a copy and use it as alternative method of bottom wiping

If I'd requested the information, would I be getting as much stick????

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

LMAO!! For the person who gave me negative karma for this post, thank you.

Its great to see that my opinions can evoke such a reaction, even if its a negative one.

Shame you didnt have the dangly bits to sign it. I obviously have more courage in my convictions cos if i believe in something i'll put my name to it lol ;)

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Am I going crazy, or did G Jones just admit he used council money to make personal calls about his grandmother?

Thank god she isn't abroad, can you imagine how much THAT would cost?

Of course money means less than your emotions Graham, you aren't footing the bill are you?

I have a £35 a month contract which gives me 600 minutes a month, 10 hrs of calls and I most certainly do use them because obviously I am on the phone quite a lot both personally and for 'business', so I can appreciate how much you can actually spend on the phone when you are busy, but these phone bills are both just ridiculously excessive?

I think regional expenditures could quite easily come up in a politics degree, particularly as nearly every business is having to face serious cut backs at the moment and nobody can afford to be wasting money on luxuries, and certainly should not be doing so if it is tax payers money.

I feel Andrew is attacked a lot for being a curious politics student and it isn't particularly fair. He's quite mild compared to some of the politics students I know in Lancaster, particularly those within the Labour Club who are ALWAYS dishing out statistics against the tories.

Yes he might be seeking out statistics to make Graham look bad, and that isn't right, but at the same time it is quite interesting to see how much money these regional politicians are actually wasting, in some cases on self-confessed personal matters!

Graham, no offence or anything, but you may be able to get the sympathy on here for the expenditures, but at the end of the day, its those who know enough about politics that know that it isn't an excuse for using taxpayers money to make personal calls.

On the money you rake up unnecessarily on that phone bill you could fund another student through a degree in medicine, nursing, teaching etc. That would be a much greater benefit than raking up bills through personal calls.

I can't help but be slightly disillusioned by the labour party to some extent because a lot of the politicians on the left come up with some particularly poor excuses for wasting money, and yes the tories might do it, but they aren't the ones claiming to be in politics to help society as a whole, you are.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

No one is 'getting stick' for using the F.O.I. to find out the expenses of all H.B.C. councillors.

We'd never even know any information had been requested unless informed by the Labour councillors of Accy Web, especially as it appears it hasn't uncovered anything that can be used as as some sort of 'but they did it too' defence.

I very much doubt anyone would have requested the information relating to concillors expenses, if the voted for massively increased allowances hadn't made the headlines and caused such a big public outcry.

No allowances up by 45%.

No headlines.

No public outcry.

No requests using F.O.I.

No do-do-gate.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

No it said (collectively), "I am the only Councillor I believe with a mobile who pays for personal calls and it has cost me a fortune". The opposite of the above.

As you can see I don't claim much in extras, food, travel etc.... That goes back to being elected in 2002 as you can see.

Freedom of Information is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with Andrew using FOI, in fact this thread is advertising a good piece of legislation. What is wrong are Andrew's motives in my opinion.

I spend my time doing positive things. The Tories are a negative and deceitful bunch here in Hyndburn and people need to know. Top Tories at County Council say that, Labour Councillors say that, everyone (residents) who turns up knows it. They only people who don't agree with that are fence sitters, fanatical Hyndburn Tories or people who think they are of a higher intellect and don't need to listen or turn up to be knowledgeable.

The Tories deserve the criticisms.

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

Just out of interest. What's a Regional Politician?

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

I think you might be classed as one Bernard (as well as Graham, Clare and myself + all the other 31 councillors on HBC) :D

Well it is step up, for me, from being called 'That woman' :rolleyes:

Re: Expenses, expenses...
 

As for myself, there seems to be one major point that appears to be being overlooked in this discussion.

Let's suppose that H.B.C. was controlled by Labour, and it was them and not the Conservatives who'd decided to ignore the recommendations of an independent panel, and voted to award themselves a 45% increased allowance.

My criticism and condemnation would have been equally vociferous and as scathing. Especially if the the increases had been accompanied by similar supercilious quotes as we've had from Cllr. Britcliffe.

Besides being a point of principal, that it really isn't very wise to chose to disregard the recommended limits, considering so many people are having to settle for either no pay rises, or rises below the rate of inflation, or worse still go on short time, which many in Hyndburn are having to do, perhaps it isn't going to mean a great deal of extra money having to be found in the great scheme of things, especially compared with the £591,000 that the council were granted, and then wasted on the defunct community website, for example.

That's really not the point. I was brought up to believe that if you look after the pennies, then the pounds look after themselves...even tenners for a 'hot dog and a Coke'.

Although I'd still be highly critical of whichever group of councillors had thought themselves worthy of such a massive rise at this time, I very much doubt anyone would have used the Freedom of Information Act to look for some sort of defence this way, certainly not from a Conservative party supporter, in the vain hope of convincing us that two wrongs make a right. Which they certainly don't in my book.

That is the major difference. Certainly as I see it.