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westendlass 07-01-2015 12:59

Paris Shootings.
 
Terrible footage coming through on the news channels of the shootings at the offices of a satirical magazine. Nowhere is safe from extremist lunatics anymore, what terrible times we live in. Makes you really feel for the next generation.

Eric 07-01-2015 13:18

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by westendlass (Post 1128764)
Terrible footage coming through on the news channels of the shootings at the offices of a satirical magazine. Nowhere is safe from extremist lunatics anymore, what terrible times we live in. Makes you really feel for the next generation.

You missed out a word: "muslims.";)

DtheP47 07-01-2015 13:19

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1128770)
You missed out a word: "muslims.";)

You missed out a word "extremist"

Eric 07-01-2015 14:06

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1128772)
You missed out a word "extremist"

Damn ... forgot about that ... how could I do that when there are only millions of them.:rolleyes: Even those muslims who are "moderate" appear unwilling to make little more than token condemnations of "extremists," probably funded by the Saudis, our buddies with all the oil.

And here's another danger:

10,000 People Protest Against Islam in the German City of Dresden

There is probably an ultra-right ... ok, let's call them NAZIs;) ... core to the movement; but ordinary Germans are supporting it because main-stream politicians are unwilling to address the problem ... or even admit that there is a problem. No matter how far the West bends, and in whatever direction, tolerance, reconciliation, dialogue ... all those neat things that work with reasonable people ... are not going to work. If the right, the center, and the left don't sort out the obvious problem, then the ordinary joe will drift towards the lunatic fringe. One can't debate with a devout muslim ... or, for that matter, with a fundamentalist Christian, because one will run headfirst into that brick wall: The "Book" ... the word of God, or Allan. It's fine to argue against the Big Bang; but don't question the authority of the Prime Mover.

cashman 07-01-2015 14:18

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Think yeh nailed yon Eric!!, They said it must never happen again, well it sodding well may do.:mad:

Neil 07-01-2015 15:29

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I think it will do. Maybe not in my lifetime but definitely in my childrens if it isn't dealt with soon

cashman 07-01-2015 15:31

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1128794)
I think it will do. Maybe not in my lifetime but definitely in my childrens if it isn't dealt with soon

Possibly in yours Neil, yeh aint n owd fart like me.

Neil 07-01-2015 15:39

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1128796)
Possibly in yours Neil, yeh aint n owd fart like me.

I'm 45 so yes it is very possible.

DaveinGermany 07-01-2015 15:48

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1128781)
probably funded by the Saudis,

The "Book" ... the word of God, or Allan.

Not for much longer if they carry on

Islamic State: Terror group make 'first attack' against Saudi Arabia | World | News | Daily Express

And this Allan Geezer? New one on me, where'd he come from then? :D

Guinness 07-01-2015 16:35

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Helluva good quote from Salman Rushdie after this senseless attack:-

"Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms.
"This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.
"I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.
"'Respect for religion' has become a code phrase meaning 'fear of religion.' Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect."


Je Suis Charlie

Less 07-01-2015 16:45

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1128804)

And this Allan Geezer? New one on me, where'd he come from then? :D

It's a new predictive google app, if you type anything that could even slightly be considered as offensive to a minority terrorist group, it's removes you from danger of retalliation by changing the word to something that makes no sense.

As you can tell by the way it has corrupted the above paragraph it is well worth having just for peace of mind and to save checking under your car every morning.

Eric 07-01-2015 17:42

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1128804)

And this Allan Geezer? New one on me, where'd he come from then? :D

Actually comes from an episode of "Little Mosque on the Prairies" ... (Not the other spinoff: "Little Scouse with the Herpes.";):D

Eric 07-01-2015 17:51

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Watching this stuff on CBC ... there was an interview with a Quebec journalist ... (from the French part of Canada, eh) ... turns out that CBC is not showing the cartoons because it may offend muslims ... like who gives a flying [deleted] ... However, the cartoons are being shown on Radio Canada (say that with a French accent), which is, strangely, the CBC in Quebec. In my opinion, "respect for the sensitivities of Muslims" has become a kind of euphemism for "fear of violent retaliation."

Oh ... almost forgot: "Vive le Quebec."

On a related story: Canada has agreed to take another 10,000 Syrian refugees.

Guinness 07-01-2015 21:15

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Speaks volumes

cashman 09-01-2015 13:47

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Feel really sorry fer the French, They got these evil gits cornered in a building it seems, But its a no-win situation, With em having a hostage, the likelyhood is they will top him n die fighting the police, seen as how the thick gets regard death as honourable.:rolleyes: I hope that aint the case, but think its likely.:(

Barrie Yates 09-01-2015 14:42

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Better to top them and then there is no trial and the resulting publicity that they seem to crave.

Less 09-01-2015 14:46

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Don't worry cash, the chances are the French will fast track negotiations so the terrorists can get asylum here and they save the hostage.

cashman 09-01-2015 15:06

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1129040)
Better to top them and then there is no trial and the resulting publicity that they seem to crave.

I agree totally, But doubt it.

lancsdave 09-01-2015 15:22

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1129040)
Better to top them and then there is no trial and the resulting publicity that they seem to crave.

Think they just have

Accyexplorer 09-01-2015 15:31

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Where's that Inspector Clouseau fella when you need him :rolleyes:

cashman 09-01-2015 15:37

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Seems there dead at both places now, Well done the French.

Accyexplorer 09-01-2015 15:40

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1129060)
Seems there dead at both places now, Well done the French.

"Yes, well, life is not all shoot-shoot, bang-bang, you know" :D

Restless 09-01-2015 16:51

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129061)
"Yes, well, life is not all shoot-shoot, bang-bang, you know" :D

I suppose you aren't going to elaborate on on what life is all about then.....

cashman 09-01-2015 17:23

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129061)
"Yes, well, life is not all shoot-shoot, bang-bang, you know" :D

It should be more about that,than sodding do-gooding anyway.:rolleyes:

Eric 09-01-2015 18:02

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Seems like the recently deceased sons of the prophet also targeted a Jewish supermarket. Now isn't that surprising:rolleyes: Being a Jewish satirical cartoonist doesn't seem like a good career move. I'm just wondering how many of those chanting "Je Suis Charlie" also chanted "I am Hamas?" Some folks just don't get what's going on. At least we know what pees off the muslims ... oops, almost forgot "extremists":eek: ... guys with pencils, and girls with books ... oh, and Jews. Any Jews ... all Jews.

cashman 09-01-2015 18:03

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Have just been listening to Northwest News on the Beeb, Muslims in Manchester were saying we should have "Strict Laws" enforced to stop people taking the micky outa the Prophet, Well I'm sorry, this is the U.K. for many years, before they even arrived here there have been jokes/cartoons etc about "Catholic Religion" the "Jewish" as well, etc some people dont/didn't like it, But did they go around slaughtering people? Did they hell as like, This is the U.K. were very tolerant, even of things we aint over happy with, so if they don't like it,Sod off to a country that aint as easy going.:(

Gordon Booth 09-01-2015 18:10

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Never could trust the French-wait 'till a man's saying his prayers then burst in and shoot him!
Still, what better time to go?

Good for the French!

Less 09-01-2015 20:00

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1129142)
Seems like the recently deceased sons of the prophet also targeted a Jewish supermarket. Now isn't that surprising:rolleyes: Being a Jewish satirical cartoonist doesn't seem like a good career move. I'm just wondering how many of those chanting "Je Suis Charlie" also chanted "I am Hamas?" Some folks just don't get what's going on. At least we know what pees off the muslims ... oops, almost forgot "extremists":eek: ... guys with pencils, and girls with books ... oh, and Jews. Any Jews ... all Jews.

Oh my god, (if I'm allowed to say that without being targeted), do I really have to be circumcised just to be satirical?

Accyexplorer 09-01-2015 20:03

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
For the record, not all Muslims are extremists,you get extremists in all religions.

I've just been ripped off in the local newsagents (£15 for a paper and 10fags)......no wonder folk call him the profit Mohammad.

Eric 09-01-2015 20:14

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1129196)
Oh my god, (if I'm allowed to say that without being targeted), do I really have to be circumcised just to be satirical?

Nah ... but it helps if you want to be a major player in Hollywood or in TV production.;) Also, if you are wandering around in the desert for a few decades, it's a good idea to get rid of your foreskin ... the sand gets under it and causes severe crotch itch, which can be embarassing when you are trying to take dicktation from the Almighty.:D

Eric 09-01-2015 20:26

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129197)
For the record, not all Muslims are extremists,you get extremists in all religions.

I've just been ripped off in the local newsagents (£15 for a paper and 10fags)......no wonder folk call him the profit Mohammad.

Yes ... but muslim extremists come in millions ... extremists in other religions shoot the occasional gynecologist, threaten to burn the Koran, and rip off gullible citizens. Don't hear of too many Jews flying planes into buildings, or Quakers blowing up London Buses and subway trains ... and Buddhists are not renowned for strapping explosives to themselves and blowing up stuff ... in fact, they just burn themselves peacefully in the middle of town.

And you were ripped off ... I got a deck of smokes (25) and a paper for $8.50.:D

dotti34 09-01-2015 20:26

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
You poor man, Accyexplorer, I really feel for you being ripped off like that. By the way, did you know that four of the people taken hostage in Paris were killed before the gunman was shot down. They'll never be able to pay £15 for a paper and 10 fags.

Get real!

Guinness 09-01-2015 20:43

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129197)
For the record, not all Muslims are extremists,you get extremists in all religions.

I've just been ripped off in the local newsagents (£15 for a paper and 10fags)......no wonder folk call him the profit Mohammad.

Strangely enough in a thread about satirical cartoonists being assassinated by fanatics..

It's wonderfully satirical to make a statement defending a religion only to follow with a 40+ year old Beano joke ridiculing its followers?

Although I kinda doubt that this was the intention

cashman 09-01-2015 21:31

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129197)
For the record, not all Muslims are extremists,you get extremists in all religions.

Yeh really are a sandwich short of a picnic!!:rolleyes:

accyman 09-01-2015 23:02

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
well the first two that got shot today had earlier said they wanted to go free ,This was after killing already so i guess the only freedom was in death and now they have it in abundance

it is sad that hostages lost their lives in teh rescue but i think the french got it right in handling the scumbags

the muslim woman involved is on the run and i hope the french are into equality between the sexes when they catch her

good job the burkah is banned in france at least she cant hide behind one which should make puttinga bullet in her head easier

Restless 09-01-2015 23:44

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129197)
For the record, not all Muslims are extremists

Of course we all know this! I imagine most Muslims are just like anybody else they just want to get on with their lives

Neil 10-01-2015 07:28

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I think many people in this country and others forget what we are doing abroad. They forget about the drone strikes and planes bombing, they forget the innocent people who are classes as collateral damage or acceptable losses in these strikes. They forget we are at war. The forget that the only way those we are at war with can retaliate is by random attacks. We call them terror attacks, they class it as collateral damage and acceptable losses.
We sit in our nice warm homes wanting all this extremist oppression to end in other countries, do we seriously expect no backlash on us in our own countries?
We are at war and in war horrible things happen.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 08:11

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Neil, which war is this?
Are our uniformed soldiers deployed?
We, the people, the ordinary people of this country did not sanction a war.......I don't recall any newspaper headlines which told us we were at war.

How do we know the enemy, when the enemy does not abide by the rules of engagement, by the Geneva convention??

If this is war then are we to fear every muslim that we see on our streets?
How are we to recognise the enemy?

I understand your post, and the points you make....but I do not agree that ruling by terror is just, that beheading hostages(or would they be prisoners of war)on camera is lawful according to the rules of war.

Divide and rule......and the rule by fear is always an uneasy one.

Barrie Yates 10-01-2015 08:32

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129228)
I think many people in this country and others forget what we are doing abroad. They forget about the drone strikes and planes bombing, they forget the innocent people who are classes as collateral damage or acceptable losses in these strikes. They forget we are at war. The forget that the only way those we are at war with can retaliate is by random attacks. We call them terror attacks, they class it as collateral damage and acceptable losses.
We sit in our nice warm homes wanting all this extremist oppression to end in other countries, do we seriously expect no backlash on us in our own countries?
We are at war and in war horrible things happen.

You seem to be somewhat confused as to what constitutes collateral damage.
Collateral damage is when someone/something other than the actual target is taken out and applies to both people and structures.

Guinness 10-01-2015 08:43

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129228)
I think many people in this country and others forget what we are doing abroad. They forget about the drone strikes and planes bombing, they forget the innocent people who are classes as collateral damage or acceptable losses in these strikes. They forget we are at war. The forget that the only way those we are at war with can retaliate is by random attacks. We call them terror attacks, they class it as collateral damage and acceptable losses.
We sit in our nice warm homes wanting all this extremist oppression to end in other countries, do we seriously expect no backlash on us in our own countries?
We are at war and in war horrible things happen.

Terrorism is not war..and it is never justified.... wiping out athletes in Munich, crashing planes into buildings full of people or murdering some cartoonists in a Paris suburb is not acceptable and it is not collateral damage by any stretch of the imagination...... unless your imagination is unbalanced!

This was 'French radicals' killing 'French cartoonists'....is there another french revolution occuring that only you know about..or is it just a bunch of barbaric religious nutjobs taking exception to some ink on paper.

Does your nice warm home have a padded cell by any chance?

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 09:55

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
and if this is a war of Muslims against the western oppressor....why do these people come to countries they so clearly despise for the freedoms that they(the western countries) offer?
If these freedoms offend them so much why do they not go back to the countries which have the seventh century rules and laws, that they would like impose on everyone?
Why do they take money for their cost of living from the people they despise so much?

And if it is a war against non Muslims, then why did ISIS hound the Yazidi tribe and give them 12 hours to convert to their brand of Islam or be massacred.

This terrorism is men who wish to be powerful, hijacking Islam/religion to perpetrate barbaric attacks against people who do not follow their twisted ideology.
The attack on a Jewish supermarket is targeted on the Jews because of their religion......and for no other reason. They cannot be considered as collateral damage......they were the target.
They want to institute theocratic rule....Now if you support that then your comments are justified...if you do not, then they are just an apologist excuse(or a stirring the pot post).

Michael1954 10-01-2015 09:55

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I suppose flying planes into the Twin Towers was collateral damage too.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 09:58

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 1129242)
I suppose flying planes into the Twin Towers was collateral damage too.

I was under the impression that the twin towers were the target.

Michael1954 10-01-2015 10:11

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129243)
I was under the impression that the twin towers were the target.

Guinness has already answered that above.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 10:16

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
missed that one....!

cashman 10-01-2015 10:22

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129228)
I think many people in this country and others forget what we are doing abroad. They forget about the drone strikes and planes bombing, they forget the innocent people who are classes as collateral damage or acceptable losses in these strikes. They forget we are at war. The forget that the only way those we are at war with can retaliate is by random attacks. We call them terror attacks, they class it as collateral damage and acceptable losses.
We sit in our nice warm homes wanting all this extremist oppression to end in other countries, do we seriously expect no backlash on us in our own countries?
We are at war and in war horrible things happen.

Look back at yer post and who agrees wi yeh!!! Never dreamed you were that stupid.:rolleyes:

Neil 10-01-2015 11:20

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129230)
Neil, which war is this?
Are our uniformed soldiers deployed?
We, the people, the ordinary people of this country did not sanction a war.......I don't recall any newspaper headlines which told us we were at war.

What do you call bombing and killing people if it's not war? We do have uniformed soldiers deployed yes, here is the first link I found showing that ISIS: SAS troops riding quad bikes and armed with sniper rifles kill eight jihadis a day - Mirror Online

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129230)
How do we know the enemy, when the enemy does not abide by the rules of engagement, by the Geneva convention??

The first sentence from wikipedia about the Geneva Convention is

Quote:

The Geneva Conventions comprise four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish the standards of international law for the humanitarian treatment of war.
Do you honestly think you can have a humane war?
We chose to pick a fight with people who don't believe in the Geneva Convention and don't follow our way of doing things. In many countries they think nothing of killing women and children, children grow up into fighters and woman make more children. I can see the logic even if I don't think it is right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1129249)
Look back at yer post and who agrees wi yeh!!! Never dreamed you were that stupid.:rolleyes:

I'm not looking for people to agree with me. Just saying it as I see it. Does that make me stupid, maybe. What about those who can't see the backlash from our foreign policies won't come back to our shores in this way, I think they are the naive ones.

accyman 10-01-2015 11:22

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
the terrorists use drone attacks etc as excuses for their vile actions and i reakon very few if any at all terrorists have been inirectly or directly effected by drone strikes or any aspect of what our troops do.Well our troops my have put a bullet into one of their terrorist scumbag friends but thats probabbly about it.

all these terrorists want is to force their will and their bullcrap gods will onto the world and what i find worrying is there arnt too many of tehir fellow kind condeming them for their actions yet millions of them unite world wide when a cartoon of their prophet got printed in a news paper claiming it was an insult to their prophet.It does make you wonder if they think beheading innocent people , slamming planes into buildings and blowing buss's up is complimentary to their prophet because they dont seem to object quite as much as they do when something that isnt in their favour or liking happens

infact most terrorists and hate preechers describe their activities as a holy war so its about allah not drones as far as they are concerned

Neil 10-01-2015 11:26

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I found this quite interesting


accyman 10-01-2015 11:30

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
iv seen that video before and one of teh guys in the front row dosnt seem to be sure if he is a muslim or not and has too look around to check lol

they do get a good attendance though you cant deny that

Gordon Booth 10-01-2015 11:48

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
'Are the politicians going to say we're all extreme Muslims?'

Well it certainly sounds like it.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 11:53

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
To answer your questions.....War can never be truly humane.......but the beheading of hostages on camera for propaganda purposes is barbaric...as is the massacre of Muslims, including women and children, purely because they practice a different form of Islam.
Isis massacred the Yadzidi tribe and they have killed those jihadis who were disenchanted with the fighting...so that they could not return to the country they were from and influence others negatively

Your link to the story in the daily mirror shows that elite forces are on the ground to combat ISIS......but not in great numbers.(so I don't think this constitutes a war footing)

As to our foreign policy, well if you asked many people what our foreign policy is, they would not be able to tell you......apart from perhaps the vast amounts of money which goes out of the country in foreign aid...but that is not the foreign policy to which you refer.
The majority of the electorate will never ask questions about foreign policy. If and when they are doorstepped by a prospective candidate.......and even if they did ask it would be a fair bet that the candidate would have not a clue how to answer this question.

So, despite being a democratic country the electorate has very little input to foreign policy affairs...and what politicians tell us is not necessarily the truth, but more what they think we want to hear or what they think we should know...which basically is 'nowt'.
You know what they say, ' If you can't blind them with science/statistics/whatever...baffle them with bulldust'.

Your views are yours...and you are entitled to them...they just (on this subject) do not align with my views.
Terrorism is not war.

Neil 10-01-2015 12:11

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1129257)
iv seen that video before and one of teh guys in the front row dosnt seem to be sure if he is a muslim or not and has too look around to check lol

they do get a good attendance though you cant deny that

I was laughing at him as well

Accyexplorer 10-01-2015 12:49

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129252)
Just saying it as I see it. Does that make me stupid, maybe. What about those who can't see the backlash from our foreign policies won't come back to our shores in this way, I think they are the naive ones.

'Islamic,Muslim,extremist Terror' has to be kept fresh in the mind of the "sheeple"/"naive ones", they enjoy receiving their dose of free brainwashing BS via the MSM.

It's pointless arguing with them as I hear they bring you down to their level then beat you with experience :D

Neil 10-01-2015 12:59

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129261)
To answer your questions.....War can never be truly humane.......but the beheading of hostages on camera for propaganda purposes is barbaric...

Yes it is barbaric but it is their way, that is what we have to accept if we wish to fight them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129261)
...they have killed those jihadis who were disenchanted with the fighting...so that they could not return to the country they were from and influence others negatively

Have a read of this, is it not the same?
The National Archives | Exhibitions & Learning online | First World War | Service records

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129261)
Your link to the story in the daily mirror shows that elite forces are on the ground to combat ISIS......but not in great numbers.(so I don't think this constitutes a war footing)

If it's not war what is it? Murder of foreign nationals on there own soil? I don't understand how you are justifying this to yourself.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 13:12

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Neil, it isn't War...it is trying to control a regime that believes in the killing of non Muslims to further the cause of an Islamic Caliphate.....And also does not stop at murdering their own people because they are a different shade of Islam.
A form of fascism which threatens the whole world....not just those nations who Isis see as antagonistic towards them.....like GB, France, USA.

How do you justify the fact that a number of innocent people lost their lives while going about their daily activities.
Are you saying that the journalists who were killed were at fault because they believe in freedom of expression?
Are you saying that those shoppers who were preparing for their own holy day were at fault and that they deserved to die at the hands of fanatics( good Muslims who had been convicted of a number of offences, some of them which included drug taking and dealing-both fine Muslim pursuits)?

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 13:15

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
The terrorists justify their actions on religious grounds....Religion has NOTHING to do with terrorism.....it is about men distorting a religion for their own agenda...that agenda is to seize power by instilling fear into people.....to form a world Islamic Caliphate.

Accyexplorer 10-01-2015 13:30

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129267)
The terrorists justify their actions on religious grounds....Religion has NOTHING to do with terrorism.....it is about men distorting a religion for their own agenda...that agenda is to seize power by instilling fear into people.....to form a world Islamic Caliphate.

90% correct M.

How I believe it should read:-

'These particular' terrorists justify their actions on religious grounds.....religion has NOTHING to do with terrorism 'this time'.......it is about men distorting religion for their own agenda.....and that agenda is to seize power by installing fear into people.....to form a "new world order".

cashman 10-01-2015 13:31

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129264)
'Islamic,Muslim,extremist Terror' has to be kept fresh in the mind of the "sheeple"/"naive ones", they enjoy receiving their dose of free brainwashing BS via the MSM.

It's pointless arguing with them as I hear they bring you down to their level then beat you with experience :D

See yeh actually woke up again. But awake or asleep yeh never change.

Neil 10-01-2015 13:35

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
So the PM doesn't say we are at war in this newspaper

Britain goes to war against Isil - Telegraph

Neil 10-01-2015 13:37

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129271)
So the PM doesn't say we are at war in this newspaper

Britain goes to war against Isil - Telegraph

Our own MP votes yes to go to war with ISIS

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 13:43

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
So is there a war cabinet then?

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 13:45

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129269)
90% correct M.

How I believe it should read:-

'These particular' terrorists justify their actions on religious grounds.....religion has NOTHING to do with terrorism 'this time'.......it is about men distorting religion for their own agenda.....and that agenda is to seize power by installing fear into people.....to form a "new world order".

Because you believe it does not make it true.
I know what I meant, and it isn't what you believe.

Eric 10-01-2015 13:45

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 1129242)
I suppose flying planes into the Twin Towers was collateral damage too.

Pilot error:rolleyes:

Accyexplorer 10-01-2015 13:46

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
This clip is worth a watch:-

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5FZBx4LRuHk

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 14:00

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Well, I was waiting for that one. I watched it but was not impressed. I do not know where the clip originates, and how they came by their information.
There is always, always going be a conspiracy theory thrown into the mix...but just because you believe it doesn't make it true.

MargaretR 10-01-2015 14:02

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
If you look at the Oxford dictionary definition of war
war: definition of war in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)
it is clear that a 'war' is happening now.

How it is waged is changing and doesn't neccessarily require a declaration or a vote.
Guided missiles, drones, cyber attacks are all strategies of war - just the use of manpower and weapons are different from what was previously accepted as war.
The era of staged battlefields ended in WWII but there have been numerous wars since.
List of wars 1945?89 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There has been a tendency to describe them as conflicts, confrontations, insurgencies, uprisings, but they still meet the dictionary definition of war.

Neil 10-01-2015 14:15

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1129273)
So is there a war cabinet then?

What will it take for it to be a war in your eyes?
The US never formally declared war on Vietnam, do you think that wasn't a war?

DaveinGermany 10-01-2015 14:26

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129252)
What do you call bombing and killing people if it's not war?

Aggressive prevention, pre-emptive response, termination with extreme prejudice.

And as to the SAS, Scout sniper teams, best of British to the lads as they're doing an exemplary job! Taking out the rankers leaves the "footsoldiers" without direction & more likely to slope off, or hopefully, turn on each other therefore saving western troops or their allies from death or injury.

Furthermore, my personal opinion is that terrorists (those that indiscriminately inflict death, injury & fear on non combatants) if taken alive should be strung up within a week, no appeals, no leniency, short, sharp, effective.

Gordon Booth 10-01-2015 15:00

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1129276)
This clip is worth a watch:-

Ohh,no. Not another conspiracy theorist? Please don't add that to your many talents.
Anyway, isn't one enough?

accyman 10-01-2015 15:08

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
im not seeing as much hype about the thousands of nigerians wiped out by muslims because it was faster to shoot them than convert them

Boko Haram's 'deadliest massacre': 2,000 feared dead in Nigeria | World news | theguardian.com

Quote:

District head Baba Abba Hassan said most victims are children, women and elderly people who could not run fast enough when insurgents drove into Baga, firing rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles on town residents.
wether war is decalred or not these scum need wiping out and as one french official said yesterday its time to start terrorising the terrorists

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2015 15:14

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129279)
What will it take for it to be a war in your eyes?
The US never formally declared war on Vietnam, do you think that wasn't a war?

No, I don't think the Vietnamese conflict wasn't a war.

It is terrorism......it is fascism, it is about imposing an ideology, a theocracy on those who do not want it.
Aren't the Isis fighters invading lands that are not theirs?
Aren't they imposing their will on tribes who have been no threat to them?
Are you happy to accept creeping Islam?
Will you rejoice when the black flag is raised over number 10?

Gordon Booth 10-01-2015 15:23

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129265)
Yes it is barbaric but it is their way, that is what we have to accept if we wish to fight them.

Fair enough.
In your current mood of reasonableness would you agree, then, that we should be allowed to fight them in the same way? After all, I'm sure they'd accept it!

If so it's time we let rip, don't you agree?

accyman 10-01-2015 15:32

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
we should have let rip on these arseholes years ago .You cant fight a war against them with your hands tied by rules when they dont adhere to any other than kill anything that disagrees with you

cashman 10-01-2015 16:06

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I agree wi the last 2 posts 100%.

accyman 10-01-2015 16:22

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129272)
Our own MP votes yes to go to war with ISIS

if labour win the election i hope this remains his view



incidently why are they called isis i thought it was islamic state or is it one of those new york new york things but in this case so barbaric they named it twice ?

Neil 10-01-2015 17:21

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1129286)
Fair enough.
In your current mood of reasonableness would you agree, then, that we should be allowed to fight them in the same way? After all, I'm sure they'd accept it!

If so it's time we let rip, don't you agree?

Are you suggesting we strap bombs onto our lads and send them in to blow themselves up? Or maybe we take hostages/prisoners/whatever and cut their heads off on TV?

No of course I don't think we should fight them in the same way. I do think we should go in properly and stop playing with planes. Nobody thinks airstrikes will destroy ISIS, boots on the ground are the only thing that might.

If you are for the war against ISIS you have to accept that bad things are going to happen here and there is nothing the authorities can do to stop it. They government can be on whatever alert level they want but they can't stop a lone person jumping in a truck and driving it through the Mall in Blackburn.
What if some local radical who has lost family in the war, sorry Margaret, conflict, decides he is not happy Hyndburn's MP voted yes and decides to pop up to Baxenden and kill his family? It's inevitable that killings will happen in the UK and other countries and the authorities are powerless to stop it.

Gordon Booth 10-01-2015 18:16

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129299)
Are you suggesting we strap bombs onto our lads and send them in to blow themselves up?

Are you volunteering?


No of course I don't think we should fight them in the same way. I do think we should go in properly and stop playing with planes. Nobody thinks airstrikes will destroy ISIS, boots on the ground are the only thing that might.

Hang on! Boots on the ground?? Playing with planes?

ISIS strength,12,000 to 30,000(hard to get up to date figures), little armour, no planes. Fighting on two fronts,Iraq and Syria.

Iraqi Army 200,000 to 270,000 troops, 555,000 Special forces and armed police, 340 tanks(a lot of them M1s), 3700 Armoured personnel Carriers, back up combat helicopters and planes etc,etc, $25 billion spent by USA alone on equipment and training.

Peshmurga(Kurdish) 190,000,some tanks and APCs.

If we send in the whole British Army, including cooks, clerks and the sick(like Rorke's Drift?) we might find 80,000.

They're all going to be falling over each other. Are our troops really needed to back up forces like that or do the Iraqis need to get their act together, with us and many others providing air power?

Isis could have been crushed long ago, if the will was there, for a mixture of reasons it doesn't appear to be.

Less 10-01-2015 18:51

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I find it disgraceful that people support these atrocities, especially the idiots we have on site that aught to know better but obviously don't, yes Neil, I mean you!
Be honest for once, you and your ilk finding excuses for terrorism are probably more dangerous than the actual terrorists because of your stupidity.
(Feel free to go into the mod section and delete this) I find you and those supporting your ideas to be lower than anyone that actually performs these foul acts.
:mad:

Neil 10-01-2015 20:20

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1129308)
I find it disgraceful that people support these atrocities, especially the idiots we have on site that aught to know better but obviously don't, yes Neil, I mean you!
Be honest for once, you and your ilk finding excuses for terrorism are probably more dangerous than the actual terrorists because of your stupidity.
(Feel free to go into the mod section and delete this) I find you and those supporting your ideas to be lower than anyone that actually performs these foul acts.
:mad:

I'm not finding excuses for terrorism, I think it's abhorrent. I'm saying it was bound to happen and carry on happening and anyone who thinks different is an idiot.

Guinness 10-01-2015 20:43

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129313)
I'm not finding excuses for terrorism, I think it's abhorrent. I'm saying it was bound to happen and carry on happening and anyone who thinks different is an idiot.


The only 'idiot' on this thread is the one who posted this drivel!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129228)
I think many people in this country and others forget what we are doing abroad. They forget about the drone strikes and planes bombing, they forget the innocent people who are classes as collateral damage or acceptable losses in these strikes. They forget we are at war. The forget that the only way those we are at war with can retaliate is by random attacks. We call them terror attacks, they class it as collateral damage and acceptable losses.
We sit in our nice warm homes wanting all this extremist oppression to end in other countries, do we seriously expect no backlash on us in our own countries?
We are at war and in war horrible things happen.

Because to anyone who is not an idiot this reads as 'terrorism is a justified weapon of war'

And only idiots would think that!

accyman 10-01-2015 22:28

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1129299)
What if some local radical who has lost family in the war, sorry Margaret, conflict, decides he is not happy Hyndburn's MP voted yes and decides to pop up to Baxenden and kill his family?

If ANY MP got into the job thinking all they had to do was shake hands and kiss babies around election time they should quit before they get asked to decide on difficult issues like wiping out ISIS and terrorists alike

at the risk of sounding a touch cold hearted its the job they put themselves forward for and beg us to give them every 5 years and unfortunatley on some occasions as rare as they are they will get asked to make a difficult decision.

i would not like to have a mp that was willing to let isis carry on for fear of personal safety and if they are unable to take the risks that come with the job then they should get out of that job and i personally wouldnt blame them if they did.

this is not a dig at Jones this is regarding any MP.

anyway as history shows terrorists never really or rarely go for the polititions who make the decisions they go for the innocent civilians and our children

ps:

neil i do get what you were trying to get accross and people have said the same about america.One thing i remember some comedian saying was that if you stick your nose in enough peoples buisness eventually you will get a bloodied nose butthis ISIS threat isnt about our governments policies and actions its about a large and growing group of people trying to force a barbaric version of their faith upon the world

Guinness 11-01-2015 08:40

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
The fact is that nobody declared war on three French muslims.

The fact is, that it was a barbaric act that had zero to do with any collateral damage, acceptable loss or a few SAS shooting murderers and rapists who are persecuting their own whilst hiding under the banner of Islam.(How easy it is to forget how Nazism grew whilst we sat appeasing in our own warm homes)

You could maybe call it religious fervour, call it brainwashing or indoctrination, call it an act of the weak or simple minded looking to go down in history like a modern day John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald....but do not claim it is a way of waging war. If you do.... then logically it must follow that Anders Brevik is a war criminal and not a murderous lunatic.

And, as someone much more intelligent than me points out below...the circulation of a magazine that less than 60000 people had heard of (myself included) has gone through the roof with over 1 million copies being printed this week.

You MUST mock - Official site of Stephen Fry

Every time one of these atrocities occurs, the whole of Islam is looked at with even more suspicion and hatred....and support for any muslims who are being persecuted is at an all time low.

Terrorism has always been and will always be counter productive.

allsorts 11-01-2015 09:05

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
We need to find the reason why these young men feel the need to kill people in cold blood
get to the root of the problem and stamp.

cashman 11-01-2015 09:48

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by allsorts (Post 1129327)
We need to find the reason why these young men feel the need to kill people in cold blood
get to the root of the problem and stamp.

Think most sensible people are well aware of the reason. They want everyone to conform to their radical brand of Islam,:rolleyes:

Margaret Pilkington 11-01-2015 09:49

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
The reason is simple...it is because they can.
If they abhorred the western style of life so much then why come to countries where this lifestyle is the norm.
If they want to live by barbaric seventh century rules then go to a country where these are the norm.
The young men go to the mosque and have their heads filled with twisted ideology......that is not Islam......they want to make the Islamic religion the only one to follow, but you do not convert minds with guns and bombs.
What Guinness says about the rise of Nazism is a very pertinent point.
This is fascism too.

If I went to another country for work or for a better life then I would try my best to adapt to the ways of that country. I would keep my own culture to a degree that didn't impose my culture/religion on my adopted land.

There are some Muslims who do not want to integrate....they do not want to be a part of the fabric of society in their new adopted country...they want that country to adapt to their needs. That cannot be right.

Restless 11-01-2015 10:14

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Some of the the people on this forum. God - You are jerks. People are entitled to their opinions

Restless 11-01-2015 10:41

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Myself included of course. How dare I make such a comment otherwise, but name calling on this forum is getting older than some of its members :)

Margaret did you see the video of the Muslim from the UK who's telling them if they don't like to go back. He's already had death threats because of it

cashman 11-01-2015 10:56

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1129331)
Some of the the people on this forum. God - You are jerks. People are entitled to their opinions

Everyone on here is entitled to their opinion, so whats name calling about saying "stupid" or "Idiot":rolleyes:

Restless 11-01-2015 10:58

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1129337)
Everyone on here is entitled to their opinion, so whats name calling about saying "stupid" or "Idiot":rolleyes:

Some might be offended by being called Idiot/Stupid. Though for me saying Mr Fry is much more intelligent is a definite. However its not just this thread. Certain people are constant offenders of the "slight digs" :D :hesoff:

edit: plus its been a while since I moaned about forums and etc. :130: :)

cashman 11-01-2015 11:06

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
If some are offended by that, then they are mard arses n i couldn't really give a stuff about people like that.

Gordon Booth 11-01-2015 11:25

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1129331)
Some of the the people on this forum. God - You are jerks. People are entitled to their opinions

You invoke the name of God! And call him a jerk!

Careful, Restless, you are being watched!

Restless 11-01-2015 11:27

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1129343)
You invoke the name of God!

Careful, Restless, you are being watched!

By 26,121 Accywebbers ? :D

cashman 11-01-2015 11:31

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1129344)
By 26,121 Accywebbers ? :D

and the guests.:D

Gordon Booth 11-01-2015 11:33

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1129345)
and the guests.:D

And several million of the faithful!

Neil 11-01-2015 12:43

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1129338)
Some might be offended by being called Idiot/Stupid.....

Not me mate, on occasion I do say stupid things and also not so stupid things badly worded

accyman 11-01-2015 13:17

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
this video is a couple of years old and was recorded in melbourne australia

you cant help but laugh at how the aussies handle the dirtbags but sadly if we were to do it in this country we would be the ones arrested even though no one actually gets harmed

anyway enjoy it should bring a smile to your face unless of course your on the side of the group who thought they were the bigger crowd until passers by started stopping and helping out

theres no fould language or violence just a few words of advice put to song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCfwcd_Ajg4

no idea why everyone on the ausie side has been labled an athiest though

accyman 11-01-2015 13:24

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
my mistake there is a naughty word so if teh word sh*t is offensive then sorry about that

Margaret Pilkington 11-01-2015 13:38

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
No Rob, I haven't seen that...but I confess to having been a bit busy and distracted of late.

Margaret Pilkington 11-01-2015 13:53

Re: Paris Shootings.
 
I am not a fan of Stephen Fry, but what he says about the idiocy of the Cherif Brothers is very true.
Had they not brought to our attention the writings of the Charlie Hebdo team, the readership would have been far less.......the Cherif brothers did indeed, promote the thing that they wanted to eliminate.

We can all offend, we can all be offended(we choose the things which offend us - I know because there are things which offend me no matter how I try to shrug them off...a generational thing, no doubt)....but however offended we are we do not go out and shoot people.

It was interesting to note that one of those who was murdered was a Muslim policeman......what was his crime? probably none.......the terrorists were so fired up they would have shot anything for any reason...or no reason at all.


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