Council Tax

andrewb · 25-03-2008, 18:02

After hearing several people complain about 'tax tax tax' I decided to do some research.

I looked at council minutes from 1999 onwards, and tried to find out which institutions our money actually goes to.

Something I had discovered that not all people know is that our council tax is set and goes to, several different sources not just our local council. As of 2008 72% goes to county council, 15% to our local Hyndburn council, 9% to the Police Authority and 4% to the Fire Authority.

In 2003 tax to the fire authority was separated out from county council, hence reducing county council tax by £6.10 (for band A), but the new fire authority tax took £33.09 (again for band A).

For the purpose of the figures I've included the fire figures with county figures so that I can easily compare county tax before fire was taken out of it.

Since 1999 Hyndburn council tax has increased 45%
County council tax has increased 48%
The Police Authority tax has increased by 117%

Now according to the BBC and other sources, on average council tax has increased by over 100%.

People are now earning 50% more than 10 years ago, and minimum wage is changing to 60% increase since 1999 as of October 2008.

As a result of this, I think our council is pretty good with its tax compared with elsewhere as it is only increasing along with earnings and has saved money in the bank which can be used for a rainy day if the economy gets any worse.

andrewb · 25-03-2008, 18:22

Forgot to add:

If you include Hyndburn, county, police and fire as one tax (council tax) then the increase since 1999 is 52%.

And Blackburn do not have to pay county council tax because they are allowed to decide that themselves as they are a unitary authority.

jackyalex · 25-03-2008, 18:41

Why people complain about how much they have to pay for council tax ?
why should we pay more for less services less parks less council run nursing/care homes exactly where does all the money go ? the council have a huge miscellaneous amount that appears on the annual newsletter people get with their council tax on how the money is spent, if your wanting peoples money the council should inform people of every penny spent. plus compaired to 10 years ago alot more houses have been built bringing more money for council tax yet still less services, our income hasnt risen over 50% in the last 10 years, i dont mind any of my money going towards the emergency services as i hope they will be there if i ever needed them

oops i didnt see the hyndburn bit, im not saying hyndburn in particular as i dont know what they do with their money, i was meaning my council

g jones · 25-03-2008, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

After hearing several people complain about 'tax tax tax' I decided to do some research.

Since 1999 Hyndburn council tax has increased 45%
County council tax has increased 48%
The Police Authority tax has increased by 117%

Once again cr*p. Sloppy research.

District raised £3.5m in 1999 and now raise £5.25
Band D has gone from £148 in 1999 to £221

Both around 66%

CPI inflation is around 16% over the period.
My wage rises 2% to 3% over the period (skilled / private sector / Accy)
May wage has gone from 16,500 to 19,500 ......+18%

Gov't grant 1999 minus HRA £5.7million
Gov't grant minus Concessionary fares 2008 £9.0m

Around 65%

Elevate £45million so far
SRB, NRF, ERDF, DEFRA, CHILDRENS FUND £25million?
Council House sale £12million (saving £1m in interest to the Council per year alone) plus RTB receipts which have rocketed to over £0.6million with house price increases.

The Council that has wasted millions when you look at real figures.

PS did I mention the crises 40% budget cuts (over 3 years) to meet debts and interest payments. so we pay 66% more for 40% less... coooool

K.S.H · 25-03-2008, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

The Police Authority tax has increased by 117%

117%rise and about 50% less of them on patrol and we've hardly got what you can call a polce station now, it's shut more than its open, the rise must be for all the extra fuel used when travelling from Greenbank

onlyme · 25-03-2008, 19:02

Cant remember the last time I saw a bobby on the beat. They seem just to loiter round with speed guns these days.

g jones · 25-03-2008, 19:14

CPI index - about 15-16%

And it was Norman Lamont that began using CPI formally known as RPIX in 1992 as the official government measure of inflation following the UK's departure from the Exchange Rate Mechanism.

Year Index That yr
1999 92.3 1.3 ..
2000 93.1 0.8 ..
2001 94.2 1.2 ..
2002 95.4 1.3 ..
2003 96.7 1.4 ..
2004 98.0 1.3 ..
2005 100.0 2.1 ..
2006 102.3 2.3 ..
2007 104.7 2.3
2008 ?107.4 2.7?

g jones · 25-03-2008, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.S.H

117%rise and about 50% less of them on patrol and we've hardly got what you can call a polce station now, it's shut more than its open, the rise must be for all the extra fuel used when travelling from Greenbank

Not defending the police but it has been used for all the PCSO's and Neighbourhood Policing teams which have been a success.

andrewb · 25-03-2008, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Once again cr*p. Sloppy research.

District raised £3.5m in 1999 and now raise £5.25
Band D has gone from £148 in 1999 to £221

Both around 66%

CPI inflation is around 16% over the period.

£3.5m to £5.25m is 50%, you're 16% out.
Your 2008 figure for Band D is incorrect, and I suspect your 1999 figure is too, but I don't have them on me so I can't work out the percentage.

Take Band B:
1999: £117.84
2008: £170.84

Increase of 45%, you're 21% out.

Take Band C:
1999: 134.68
2008: 195.24

Increase of 45%, you're 21% out.

Since Band A, B, C all give 45% increase using the correct figures, I can only assume your Band D figures are incorrect.

Is it any wonder Labour had a 2% council tax rise budget with 40 uncosted parts, when they can't addup?

CPI might be 16%, but a more accurate measure is RPI which is 33%. The inflation on goods is not equal to how much wages have risen. And it was Brown in 2003 that changed to the HICP which is now renamed to CPI.

claytonender · 25-03-2008, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

.

People are now earning 50% more than 10 years ago, and minimum wage is changing to 60% increase since 1999 as of October 2008.

I don't know where you have got the figures from that wages have increased by 50% since 1999. I have just checked and in 1999 I was earning £5.50 an hour and in 2007 I was earning £6.50 an hour (which included holiday pay) by my reckoning this is an increase of 18% (or 2.25% each year).

The figures might be correct nationally but I am sure that they are much less for Hyndburn.

Eric · 25-03-2008, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

After hearing several people complain about 'tax tax tax' I decided to do some research.

I looked at council minutes from 1999 onwards, and tried to find out which institutions our money actually goes to.

Something I had discovered that not all people know is that our council tax is set and goes to, several different sources not just our local council. As of 2008 72% goes to county council, 15% to our local Hyndburn council, 9% to the Police Authority and 4% to the Fire Authority.

In 2003 tax to the fire authority was separated out from county council, hence reducing county council tax by £6.10 (for band A), but the new fire authority tax took £33.09 (again for band A).

For the purpose of the figures I've included the fire figures with county figures so that I can easily compare county tax before fire was taken out of it.

Since 1999 Hyndburn council tax has increased 45%
County council tax has increased 48%
The Police Authority tax has increased by 117%

Now according to the BBC and other sources, on average council tax has increased by over 100%.

People are now earning 50% more than 10 years ago, and minimum wage is changing to 60% increase since 1999 as of October 2008.

As a result of this, I think our council is pretty good with its tax compared with elsewhere as it is only increasing along with earnings and has saved money in the bank which can be used for a rainy day if the economy gets any worse.

Just checked on this for interest, because I pay my taxes to the City of Kingston, the Province of Ontario, and the Govt. of Canada. But what I found interesting, and surprising, is that 72% of local taxes go to the County Council. Why is this? What does the County Council do locally for this whopping slice of tax revenue? The tax I pay to the City is used (or misused), in Kingston. None of it goes to the sort of equivalent of the County, which would be the Province of Ontario. What does the local council do with the money it gets? Who sets the tax rate, the local council or the county council? Are the police and the fire service controlled locally or by the county? Who is responsible for maintaining the roads and collecting the garbage?

cashman · 25-03-2008, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

After hearing several people complain about 'tax tax tax' I decided to do some research.

People are now earning 50% more than 10 years ago, and minimum wage is changing to 60% increase since 1999 as of October 2008.

never heard such rubbish in my life, where ya get this from VIZ? i challenge you to produce anyone in Hyndburn who has been in the same job for the last 10 yrs and IS Earning 50% more.

if ya do theres a drink fer ya at the next meet yer at.

lancsdave · 25-03-2008, 21:05

We should be able to mark threads with reminders for Accyweb awards nights when they come round. Somebody remind me next year to nominate Cyfr for bravest thread of the year

andrewb · 25-03-2008, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

never heard such rubbish in my life, where ya get this from VIZ? i challenge you to produce anyone in Hyndburn who has been in the same job for the last 10 yrs and IS Earning 50% more.

if ya do theres a drink fer ya at the next meet yer at.

No, the BBC and national statistics websites. One example is my mum, a nurse, her pay has risen 51% in that time period

Anyone who was on the minimum wage in 1999 will be earning at least 50% more now, and they will be earning 60% more in October.

That isn't my main point however, my main point is that on average other councils have raised tax by 50% more than what Hyndburn residents are paying.

claytonender · 26-03-2008, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

No, the BBC and national statistics websites. One example is my mum, a nurse, her pay has risen 51% in that time period

Anyone who was on the minimum wage in 1999 will be earning at least 50% more now, and they will be earning 60% more in October.

That isn't my main point however, my main point is that on average other councils have raised tax by 50% more than what Hyndburn residents are paying.

Whilst I appreciate that your mother is earning 51% more in 10years, she is in a profession that has national pay scales, and also nurses are at the top end of the pay rates for this area. )I know nurses feel that they are badly paid, but in comparison with lots of the working population of Hyndburn - they are well paid).

Surely you should know that national statistics are NATIONAL, have you obtained accurate statistics for Hyndburn.

I do feel that it is very unfair to use the minimum wage as an example of wage rates be raised. In 1999 (which was first implemented on 1/04/199) the minimum wage was £3.60 per hour and is now £5.52 an hour (from 1/10/07). But what you fail to take into consideration is that the vaste majority of workers in Hyndburn have fallen behind with pay rises. The pay differential between workers who earn just above the minimum wage and the minimum wage is being eroded every year. In October when the minimum wage is increased to £5.73 (21p an hour), there will not be a corresponding increase for other low paid workers. 5 years ago my husband was earning £1.00 an hour more than minimum wage, he now earns 20p an hour more than minimum wage (he is still working for the same company doing the same job).

I appreciate what your main point is however, but why did the Telegraph say Hyndburn was the most expensive council in the country?