Creationism versus Evolution - Page 7

Ernie · 30-04-2006, 22:20

To quote Willow, "As for how long creation took, well how long is one of God's days? A year? A thousand years? A million, a billion years?". I have a theory, for what use it may be, if the "Big Bang " story is correct, then imagine at the centre of the explosion there is a nucleus and millions of years ago everything was revolving and moving away from the center to the outer reaches of the universe, then at the time a revolution of the star systems and indeed our solar system took less time than it does now but it was still referred to as a day/week/month/year etc... This would explain why the Biblical characters lived for hundreds of years because a year was but a fraction of the time it is today.

katex · 30-04-2006, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie

To quote Willow, "As for how long creation took, well how long is one of God's days? A year? A thousand years? A million, a billion years?". I have a theory, for what use it may be, if the "Big Bang " story is correct, then imagine at the centre of the explosion there is a nucleus and millions of years ago everything was revolving and moving away from the center to the outer reaches of the universe, then at the time a revolution of the star systems and indeed our solar system took less time than it does now but it was still referred to as a day/week/month/year etc... This would explain why the Biblical characters lived for hundreds of years because a year was but a fraction of the time it is today.

jambutty · 01-05-2006, 12:12

Being on the wrong side of 69 I have no idea what happens in secular schools today regarding religion. But I do know from second hand experience (grandchildren) that in church schools the church religion is taught, and as I understand it even more so in Muslim schools. How many Muslim children attend a Catholic or Church of England school? None!

If you want to influence how a person thinks, the way to do it is to plant the seed as early as possible in the child’s life. This has been happening since religion began. It is only later in life that some children see through the religious ethos and rebel. However the other side of the coin is that non religious adults have converted to a religion through choice. Some people have a need of something better to believe in than their humdrum lives and religion plays on this need by offering an afterlife if they follow the rules that have been laid down. Why do you think there are so many suicide bombers around? They have been brainwashed into believing that there is a better afterlife to what we have on Earth. In Catholicism suicide is a mortal sin and no one enters Heaven with a mortal sin unless they confess and do penance. Just exactly how does a successful suicide make a confession? They go straight to hell. If there is a supreme and all powerful God, by definition there can only be one. So how come if a Muslim commits suicide in furthering the cause of Islam he goes and sits by the side of Allah but a Catholic is condemned to Hell. They can’t both be right.

Quote:

This would explain why the Biblical characters lived for hundreds of years because a year was but a fraction of the time it is today.

I think that the word allegedly fits in there somewhere. Noah reputedly lived for 950 years whilst Joshua only managed 110.

Katex – laughing at a person’s post is at the best rude.

katex · 01-05-2006, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

[SIZE=3]Katex – laughing at a person’s post is at the best rude.

I know Butty .. 'tis rude, however, not as articulate as yourself and thought straight to the point and how I felt at the time. Will behave better next time, promise. Anyway, you saying it all for me as agree with every word, but as Gayle has said won't change people's beliefs even when you talk common sense. Anyway, was the theory I was laughing at and, as you know, all scientists, have been laughed at during the past for these, only to be proved correct, so may be laughing on the other side of my face at some stage.

I never had my children christened as thought it would be like putting their name down for a political party before they could form their own opinions.

JohnW · 01-05-2006, 20:51

It's my considered opinion that organised religion is, probably, the biggest con ever perpetrated against man by man. It is all a matter of control, and like has been said in earlier posts, if you get 'em young and frighten them with all kinds of hellfire if they don't do as they're told, and promises of heaven if they do as they're told, you stand a better chance of retaining them for the rest of their lives.

What kind of ever loving, all forgiving, all-powerful wonderful father figure, would condemn his sons and daughters to an eternity in hell which is supposed to be the worst place you could possibly imagine. I would not wish that upon my children no matter what they did. Let them be punished for things they do wrong most certainly, but an ETERNITY IN HELL. I don't think so. Where is this 'turn the other cheek' attitude we all hear so much about? The quality of mercy etc.? How come we are supposed to thank God for all the good things that happen, but we are not allowed to lay any blame at His door for all the bad things that happen? Plenty of that around these days eh? Much of it done in the name of religion. I cringe when I hear people say, "God saved us." when they are talking about narrowly missing death because of Hurricane Katrina or some such tragedy. Well, what about all the people who died? Why didn't he save them? Surely, this all powerful being would have been better employed calming the Hurricane rather than picking odd people out here and there to save from its wrath.

It's all a matter of faith we are told. Well, happily, I woke up and smelt the coffee. If you're not allowed to question anything but just believe whatever you are told then that, to my mind, is a cult. My wife is a devout Christian and prays for me every day because she considers I am heading for the lower regions when I pop my clogs. I love her dearly and would not want her to lose her faith if it makes her feel better about her life and the life which she is expecting hereafter. However, she really shouldn't waste her prayers on me.

West Ender · 01-05-2006, 21:34

I think a lot of us feel that way. I was brought up Catholic but, though my mother was of that denomination and came from an old pre-reformation English Catholic family, my father was an agnostic (previously brought up as a Baptist). Through my dad I learned, first of all, how evil and nonsensical religious intolerance is. He had witnessed at first hand the intolerance of his family and his adoptive parents when he married my mum and he treated all those with similar views with scorn. He never questioned my mother's beliefs or my educational indoctrination by the sisters at Paddock House but he taught me to be rational.

I married in the Catholic church, though my husband was not of that persuasion, but I had already begun to have serious doubts, not particularly about the Catholic faith but about Faith in general. My first 2 children were baptised Catholic but I must admit it was more in the cause of tradition than devotion on my part. By the time they were ready for school I had no faith and seeing the evils of inter-religious bigotry, particularly as in Northern Ireland, I did not bring them up in any denomination at all.

My third child was not christened. At the age of 7 she started to go to the local Methodist Sunday School, because she wanted to. That was fine by me. After a couple of years she quite fancied being a Catholic and went to mass a couple of times, then she decided she would rather like to be a Jew but we didn't have a synagogue nearby so she gave up the idea. After that she became a devoted Humanist. In a way that has lasted but today, at the age of 30, she is just a very caring person who puts people first.

I love reading the Bible. I find the stories fascinating as a history of the world, as it was known at the time, put into allegory. I have no quarrel with those who take every word as verbatim because, like my dad, I believe in tolerance. I can pick holes in any theory of the Creationists but I would not do so in order to convert them to my philosophy and I won't be converted to theirs.

simon · 01-05-2006, 21:43

Arn't we getting off topic ?? "Creation versus Evolution"

If we have evolved can you explain something to me ?

We use less than 1% of our brain, many(sceintists) say less than 1/1000th of it.So the Theory of evolution says that we evolve out of need.Always bettering ourselves. How have we got too the point of being more than 100 times brainier than we currently are and then evolving backwards to this point ?
And when in our history did we show this much larger brain usage ???

P.s. why did we ever lose the ability to breath underwater ? if we evolved from fish? would be very usefull in this planet of 3/4 water ??

SPUGGIE J · 01-05-2006, 22:38

Any poor sod that used more than a certain amount of grey matter would end up in a lab. The rest could be used as we progress at a certain rate.

JohnW · 02-05-2006, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

Arn't we getting off topic ?? "Creation versus Evolution"

If we have evolved can you explain something to me ?

We use less than 1% of our brain, many(sceintists) say less than 1/1000th of it.So the Theory of evolution says that we evolve out of need.Always bettering ourselves. How have we got too the point of being more than 100 times brainier than we currently are and then evolving backwards to this point ?
And when in our history did we show this much larger brain usage ???

P.s. why did we ever lose the ability to breath underwater ? if we evolved from fish? would be very usefull in this planet of 3/4 water ??

I'm not fully understanding what you are trying to say here Simon. When were we at the point of being 100 times brainier than we are now and who measured this for us? I would have thought that we are certainly 'more clever' now than we have ever been. We have made unbelievable technological strides in the last 50 years. When I was a child, our class was told by our teacher that "one day" man would walk on the moon, but it would not be in our lifetime. It was a reasonable assumption at the time I think.

SPUGGIE J · 02-05-2006, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW

I'm not fully understanding what you are trying to say here Simon. When were we at the point of being 100 times brainier than we are now and who measured this for us? I would have thought that we are certainly 'more clever' now than we have ever been. We have made unbelievable technological strides in the last 50 years. When I was a child, our class was told by our teacher that "one day" man would walk on the moon, but it would not be in our lifetime. It was a reasonable assumption at the time I think.

They could have compared the interlectual capacity of Geo W to Stephen Hawkins which would mean x100 is generous.

MUMMIBOO · 02-05-2006, 11:58

Well i have to say my view on religion is we all came from Noah and his wife i try not to think so far before that as it hurts slightly! we must have come from then as there was no-one else! so there is my theory!

Jam Butty you say you dont see muslims in catholic schools well you are wrong again both my children attend catholic school and yes there are asians and muslims who attend!!

Nether of my children are catholic and they attened catholic school i am not the one to give them religion as it is a belief and they will gain that for themselves after being taught about different religions at school!

I have to say though it does make me laugh when they are comming home from school sayin "Mum i have 2 fathers dont i " i said what she said well i have my dad and we have "Our Father" i just laughed and told her she needs new shoes go and ask your other father!!!!

Neil · 02-05-2006, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

We use less than 1% of our brain

In your case mate even less

jambutty · 02-05-2006, 15:38

I think that you will find that we use ONE TENTH (not 1%)of our brain in conscious acts simon and we have the capacity but not the ability to use more unless we develop the ability. However each generation seems to be that bit brighter than the previous one and also developing faster too. My newest granddaughter got her first two teeth at 8 months. This was unheard of 50 years ago, although it seems to be commonplace today. At one year she is walking unaided. OK! So it’s more of a stagger from support to support but kids in my day were considered forward if they were walking at 18 months. Look how tall kids are today compared to the average height 50 years ago.

Evolution isn’t just about need but also by accident of procreation. A tiny error in the coming together of parental genes can produce an offspring with an ability not evident in its siblings.

We cannot breath under water because we do not need to. We live on the land and have done for millions of years.

Noah was commanded to build a boat 300 cubits long. As I understand it a cubit was the equivalent of 18 inches. So the Ark would be 450 feet in length. Clean animals were boarded in groups of 7 and unclean animals in groups of 2. Now how much room would 7 elephants take? Not forgetting all the other larger animals. Then there is the feed for those animals for a minimum of 40 days. Sorry but the figures just don’t add up.

However some interpretations of a cubit put it at 45 inches but an Ark 1,125 feet long would still have a problem with tens of thousands of animals and their food. Don’t forget the waste product as well. How many people would be needed to tend to those animals?

garinda · 02-05-2006, 15:42

I use more than you lot anyway, especially when I have to go astro-planing back to my own planet.

West Ender · 02-05-2006, 16:25

Re Noah. There is archaeological evidence that there was a Great Flood in the Middle East a few millenia ago. To our biblical historians their part of the world was The World, therefore The World was destroyed by flood.

Noah, having some prescience of impending weather conditions, builds his ark. The World (the Middle East) doesn't contain elephants, giraffes and such but it does contain sheep, goats, camels, fowls etc. so he takes a breeding pair of each on board, with an eye to the future. Along with them there's going to be all the insects - try keeping ticks etc. off sheep.

When the water subsides there's Noah, his wife and family (sons are mentioned in the bible, they probably had wives and children) and the stock - repopulation of The World. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world that isn't The World, things probably carry on pretty much as usual.