EUTHINASIA - Page 4

lettie · 15-01-2005, 15:06

Doctors don't take an oath. There is no getting up in front of classmates in Med school to take the Hypocratic Oath. No swearing the oath on the bible etc. Contrary to popular belief, the Hypocratic oath is merely doing those 3 things mentioned by black flights. No oath is actually taken it is a similar thing to the NMC's Code of professional conduct for nurses, midwives and health visitors. In other words, general rules which we are required to work by.

Margaret Pilkington · 15-01-2005, 15:12

I too, watched my father die a terrible death from lung cancer......I admitted him to the ward where he was being cared for...... and care was exactly the right word for it..... all the staff looked after him as if he were their Dad, but he knew what the diagnosis was and just gave up...... the last 10 days of his life were pitiful and I wished for him to die every night..... he could not breathe so he could not eat or drink with any degree of comfort ...... he could not walk across the room because he had not enough breath...... he could not lie down. What joy was there in his life during this time????? None at all, and he was afraid to go to sleep in case he didn't wake up. If I were to keep an animal in those conditions you could bet I could be prosecuted, yet it was considered OK to keep my lovely old Dad alive. It would have been far kinder to end his suffering. I hope if ever I am unfortunate enough to be in such a condition that someone in my family will take pity on me.
I am glad that Margaret Blackburn had such a loving husband who put an end to her suffering and I would praise the judge for his compassion towards Mr Blackburn.

Margaret Pilkington · 15-01-2005, 15:16

I think everyone has to make up their own mind and the experience of life will vary from person to person....... and I think it is experience which will dictate your own personal attitude to the subject.

lettie · 15-01-2005, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I think everyone has to make up their own mind and the experience of life will vary from person to person....... and I think it is experience which will dictate your own personal attitude to the subject.

I think that is spot on Margaret. When you have seen somebody suffer and had the experience of caring for those people while they are suffering unfathomable pain you sometimes find that your attitude towards the situation changes. I think somebody would have to be extremely hard hearted not to want to help somebody end that kind of situation. It is extremely upsetting for the carers to be asked for that help, whether it's family or hospital/nursing home staff, because we know there is legally nothing we can do. Anyone who is not upset in that kind of situation shouldn't be caring

Margaret Pilkington · 15-01-2005, 15:32

I agree Lettie........you can't help but get involved with your patient and their family.
I know when I trained we were taught that you should not get involved, but the only way that I could care for someone was to see them as almost family. That attitude in my mind ensures the very best care. I would not do to a patient or their relatives something I would not want to be done to me or any member of my family.

Margaret Pilkington · 15-01-2005, 15:36

I remember when I was in training, looking after a young man on the Orthpaedic ward who had been in a bad road accident...... I used to call at the chippie on my way into work when I was on nights to get him fish and chips......he was always starving hungry, and despite all he ate he was as thin as a string. He had no family in this country...... was on a visit from South Africa.

ANNE · 15-01-2005, 21:18

I think the commandment thou shalt not kill means you should never take the life of someone that has a life.
I.E walking,talking,working,laughing, running ,jumping.
Euthinasia means you are helping a person that has a life only in the sense that the heart is beating.
You are helping the person you love into another life with out any pain.

WillowTheWhisp · 15-01-2005, 21:25

Taking the point of view regarding the commandment I know what you are saying black_flights and in Mr. Blackburn's case he did actually take a positive action but on the other hand I can fully understand why he did it and sympathise with him. There are also many cases, such as A-b describes, where a person is often kept artificially alive and their suffering prolonged. I cannot believe that this can be right. It is interfering with the natural course of events. In those cases I believe a person should be permitted to die with as much dignity as possible.

I do believe we are kinder to animals.

When my time comes I hope I will be permitted to go.

janet · 16-01-2005, 07:39

I know that if i was terminaly ill and in a lot of pain i would like the choice of ending my own life.If you are of sound mind then you should be given the choice. I had to make that choice when my last dog was dying,it would have been extremly cruel of me to have prolonged his life, so i so fit to put my feelings to one side. I would expect my family to do the same for me.

Busman747 · 16-01-2005, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lettie

When you have seen somebody suffer and had the experience of caring for those people while they are suffering unfathomable pain you sometimes find that your attitude towards the situation changes.

Quite right Lettie. Some years ago, my father was terminally ill with a brain tumour. For many weeks he was on a morphine drip but was still in considerable pain.

One afternoon, he was barely conscious but pleaded with me to end his life. this was not the rantings of a deranged man high on drugs, but someone that had been through enough pain and was helpless to do anything about it himself!

That 30 minutes listening to him was absolute agony for me, there was only one thing I could do and that was to go to the hospital chapel and pray for my dad to die....

I was not a religious person but a few minutes after I returned to his bedside, he passed away. Coincidence?? Who knows, but I DO know that I may have looked at ways of helping my father if he had continued to live,

For this reason, I totally approve of Euphanasia in terminal cases and as Lettie says, you have to experience the pain loved ones go through before you truly understand the pro's of euphanasia.

Acrylic-bob · 17-01-2005, 06:43

>>That 30 minutes listening to him was absolute agony for me, there was only one thing I could do and that was to go to the hospital chapel and pray for my dad to die... <<

What a dreadful situation to be in. Expressions of sympathy seem inadequate.

Interestingly, there were reports in the papers and on BBC News yesterday that an adviser to the Archbishop of Canterbury supported assisted dying in terminal cases. though a spokesman for the church of England was anxious to distance the church from the adviser's remarks.

More here: http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/ne...0116euth.shtml

From reading the article it sounds like the sort of moral mess the C of E usually gets itself into. And then they wonder why so few people take any notice of them any more.

fireman · 19-01-2005, 11:48

I sat with my mum only a few weeks ago watching her die from liver cancer, a secondary from breast cancer two years earlier. the last few days were awful and yes i did feel like i wanted to help her along. When she did die though, had i done anything to assist her then i'm afraid that i probably couldn't have lived with the guilt. She was 81 and did not tell anyone about the breast problem until it was far too late in spight of my wife being a retired nursing sister and my sister a staff nurse. I think at that age they dont discuss their bita do they. KIeep up the self examination girls and tell someone the minute you find anything unusual.

WillowTheWhisp · 19-01-2005, 13:37

I think Professor Gill is saying that in cases where someone has helped a terminally ill loved one to die peacefully and end their suffering that it should be viewed with compassion and sympathy as such a case is very far removed from that of a murderer.

That must have been an awful experience for you fireman, a terrible situation to be in. I think if it were me I would have wanted to help and yet felt powerless to do so.

It still seems so very wrong that we can end the suffering of a dog but not of a human being.

fireman · 19-01-2005, 15:58

lifes a bitch

Bigclive · 19-01-2005, 18:41

Who needs euthenasia with the likes of Harold Shipman around?