Is it any wonder children swear?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

How can you say that, I have seen you play the "what swear words can you get away with in chat" game

There's a censor built into the chat facility, and I don't swear anyway, especially infront of people I don't know, or know people's ages.

I do push the innuendo in threads, but I also censor myself.

Interesting note, just returned from the theatre to see a play in Bolton. What did all the middle class, middle aged theatre goers titter at most? Yes the swearing. The school parties didn't .

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by baby boo

if a woman or young girl was to be called a silly moo these days she would take it offensively as obviously it relates to being called a cow. i would rather be sworn at than called a cow.
same with the word bitch, who likes being called a dog? but yet its classed as a swear word so when a young child is learnig the word bitch people will automatically think first? is my child swearing?? or would they then realise that they were learning a new meaning for a lady dog??
or ba****d this word is in alot of films that is only realting to a child without a father??

Tw**t- a female fish??
where do we draw the line at what is swearing and what is not??

The original word when "Till Death Us Do Part" was written was meant to be "cow" but it was deemed to be too offensive to use on television so was changed to "moo".

Now you're talking about words and the context in which they are used. If we are talking about animals then a female dog is a bitch and there's no problem with that any more than there is a problem with the animal we get milk from being called a cow. The problem arises when people are insulted by being called such names. Other animal names have also been used to insult people, "pig" for example, or even "toad". It's the fact that the words are chosen and intentionally meant as insults which makes them offensive to the recipient.

The word used to describe an illegitimate child (the child does have a father, he's just not married to the mother) still sounds harsh when used in the correct context. This is probably because when someone has been referred to as the "b******d son of so and so" rather than the "illegitimate son of so and so" it has often been said that way in order to sound harsh and critical.

There is a sea bird which is called a shag. I believe it is rather like a cormorant. I vaguely remember the fish from a quiz I did a few years ago. I thought it was a young fish but can't remember the species.

You could also argue the point about words such as "bloody" which when referring to something covered in blood are nothing more than descriptive adjectives. An example being the "bloody baron" ghost in Harry Potter.

That reminds me of something my youngest daughter once said to me. She'd been quite horrified at something a friend of hers had said and I asked her what it was. She didn't want to repeat the words even though they were nowhere near as bad as the words her sister is now expected to speak in class at school but she also wanted me to understand what it was so she got round it by saying. "You know what the baron is in Harry Potter? Well it was that and the place you end up if you don't go to Heaven." She was about 7 at the time I think.

You may find it quite normal if you are angry with someone to tell them to "f" off but my kids would say "get lost!" with just as much emphasis. I've never used the word in my life and believe me there have been times when I've been angry/frustrated/upset/annoyed/exasperated. Maybe I'm in a minority but if so then I find that rather sad. MY father once told someone to "p" off when he was very angry and my mother was mortified. He'd never sworn before and even used to criticise her for say "blast". I think that illustrates A-b's point. If he'd been used to swearing like a trooper thsoe two words wouldn't have had half the impact they did.

[SPUGGIE J]

We have reached the point of "when is a swear word actually a swear word"? If as some people have pointed out they do have a genuine meaning then what is the issue? To the point boo made about female cannines (used as d*g can be derogotory) There is a pub near my place of work called "The Black Bitch" so is that swearing. The pub sign shows a jet black female greyhound and is named as mentioned. A lot of words now have double meaning so wear do we draw a line?

[harwood red]

I think drawing the line when it comes to it is down to peoples own morals and what they feel comfortable saying and what company they are in at the time. I can have a joke around with my kids and say "Bog off" to them and its taken in the jokey way it is meant. But I once said it to them in front of my mum and got into trouble, bearing in mind I am 34 and still completely respect what my mum has to say I am unable to ever say it again.

To a certain extent I only can cope with profanities when they are used in a sparingly stressed out or angry way. What I really hate is when it is used in everyday language as normal speech, that REALLY gets my goat. I also find it horrendous when hearing it come out of the mouths of babes!!!!

I picked someone up at work for swearing unnecessarily and she actually admitted that she hated to hear kids swear. So I told her what does she expect if she is happy to swear in everyday life and that maybe in some small part she may have contributed to a child learning a swear word! Funnily enough couple of weeks later she said she had done the same thing when she overheard someone else swear......

[WillowTheWhisp]

Gotta agree with you Harwood Red.

When is a word not a swear word Spuggie J? - It's the context.



I have a friend who always uses the word "ruddy" - now we all know this can mean the rosy cheeked complexion of a rather windblown country outdoors type person but he meant it as a "substitute" swear word. He and his wife run a message forum and one day she decided to put the word "ruddy" in the censor list but rather than just substitute a series of asterisks she substituted a string of words! Consequently the next time he posted "ruddy" what people actually saw was a long winded sentence full of words hardly anyone had heard of!

At the opposite extreme that censor list caused some hilarity when people found themselves having "roostertails" at a "roostertail party" or even a very extreme censoring of the word "pooh" which led to someone reading their child a bedtime story about "Winnie the Whoopsie"

[SPUGGIE J]

Is it possible for the kids today to know in which context a word is swearing and when it is not given that there English is poor? I freely admit my English is far from perfect but I still kmow the difference. I agree with what is being said but think its a case of going round in circles.

[slinky]

My 8 year old son once called his little brother a PILLOCK, when i pulled him up about it he said, " but mum it's a pregnant fish"......................... that's knowledge for ya!!! lol.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Who says their English is poor? It shouldn't be. Every child in this country gets a free education. There is no reason for ignorance. Even children who enter the education system with English as their second language very quickly catch up and acheive good results if they want to.

At the age of 7 when visiting a friend of mine on Selby Close in Baxenden one of my kids came out with:

"I'm not sure if you're aware that the etymological origins of the word "Selby" are quite possibly Viking."

My friend sat there in silence for a while not quite knowing how to handle this gem of information.

[SPUGGIE J]

When employers start worying about the education given to school leavers then in the 3 R's then there has to be someting there to worry them. These people are the future labour force and tax payers and if the education they have is not to the standard then they will end up with low paid or no job at all. There is to much interferance in education esspecially from polititions. I am not saying all are bad at the 3 R's but considering the kind of jobs around they need good basic education so do plays that have swearing in them show a good example?

[Acrylic-bob]

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

do plays that have swearing in them show a good example?

I would argue that they demonstrate the word used in context, in a manner that is likley to stimulate questions and discussion, this can only be good, surely?

Additionally, are we going to deny our children the chance to experience modern drama because of the inclusion of a handful of words which makes some of us feel a little uncomfortable?

[Gayle]

It's all about context with a bit of fashion thrown in.

Literature has always been full of fashionable swear words - Shakespeare used words that were risque at the time and probably fell foul of the moral police more than once because of it.

The real problem is that fashion pushes boundaries and by pushing the boundaries in one way we let a whole host of other things in. For instance, the first time f**k was used on TV was on The Tube and there was outrage, it made all the national papers at the time. Now, you can hear it everynight after 9pm whatever channel you're watching. That was a boundary that was pushed back and is now 'acceptable' which means that people are busily working on pushing the next boundary and the next. We could never go back to a point where f**k was as offensive as it used to be.

Having said all that, I think that children should be as protected as possible from all swear words. I'm particularly careful about what I say in front of the kids. I do, very rarely, swear myself but never in front of the children (or my parents for that matter!).

Which brings me back round to the argument that it all depends what the context is and for me, the context means it is only really truly offensive when said around children. So, whilst I would find Educating Rita acceptable to read or watch I wouldn't be happy allowing my children to watch it until they were considerably older.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I still find the 'F' word offensive and will not happily watch any programme that contains bad language........often when something contains bad language I will say the phrase without the bad language and to me, usually, the impact isn't lessened by the removal of the offending word. The 'F' word has only become acceptable because we haven't checked the people using it.......and yes, I know that kids will hear it where ever they are, but that doesn't mean we should condone it.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle Knight

the first time f**k was used on TV was on The Tube and there was outrage, it made all the national papers at the time.

Actually the first time the word was aired on British television was by the theatre critic Kenneth Tynnan in 1969, in a live interview on the BBC. It was also heard many times in the 1976 interview that the Sex Pistols gave to Bill Grundy on Granada.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Fuddy Duddies and Oldies Unite......Ban bad language!

[cashman]

At the age of 7 when visiting a friend of mine on Selby Close in Baxenden one of my kids came out with: have i read this wrong? if not you sure started young willow lollll