Isn't It Time Cyclists re-claimed the road?

[katex]

Originally Posted by Less

No, not on a mission, just wanting to travel safely from A to B without having to avoid Ignorant cyclists, if they do not have the competence to use the roads then they should give up cycling & walk I want the pavements for pedestrians and courteous cyclists able to travel on roads where they should be.

Surely that isn't too much to ask?

Of course it is not too much to ask Less ... nobody is disagreeing with you that cyclists on pavements is unhealthy to pedestrians.

I think we have got to ask ourselves why they do it and I suspect in most cases is a fear for their safety of being on the road. Also confusing as there are lots of cycle paths on pavements too ... these are shared and most pedestrians ignore them whilst crossing over the cycle track.

I'm sure all departments involved with transport recognise this problem and lots being done to ensure every one's safety. Maybe a campaign as in the 'Think Bike' one, but aimed at this problem could have some effect ... unfortunately though, as mentioned previously, the budgets for transport have been drastically cut.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by katex

Of course it is not too much to ask Less ... nobody is disagreeing with you that cyclists on pavements is unhealthy to pedestrians.

I think we have got to ask ourselves why they do it and I suspect in most cases is a fear for their safety of being on the road. Also confusing as there are lots of cycle paths on pavements too ... these are shared and most pedestrians ignore them whilst crossing over the cycle track.

I'm sure all departments involved with transport recognise this problem and lots being done to ensure every one's safety. Maybe a campaign as in the 'Think Bike' one, but aimed at this problem could have some effect ... unfortunately though, as mentioned previously, the budgets for transport have been drastically cut.

Please enlighten, whats this "Lots" all departments are doin to ensure everyones safety? this i have yet to witness.

[Less]

Originally Posted by katex

I think we have got to ask ourselves why they do it and I suspect in most cases is a fear for their safety of being on the road. Also confusing as there are lots of cycle paths on pavements too ... these are shared and most pedestrians ignore them whilst crossing over the cycle track.

they do it because Mr. Plod has allowed them to get away with it for far too long.

Even Plod on a bike are guilty of it, which is much, much worse.

As already stated:-

Originally Posted by Less

if they do not have the competence to use the roads then they should give up cycling & walk.

[katex]

Originally Posted by Less

they do it because Mr. Plod has allowed them to get away with it for far too long.

Even Plod on a bike are guilty of it, which is much, much worse.
:-

Again, nobody is arguing ('cept you) ... that the law should be stronger on 'on the spot fines' for this. Resources I guess.

Just feel prevention and education on this subject is better than cure.

[Less]

Originally Posted by katex

Again, nobody is arguing ('cept you) ... that the law should be stronger on 'on the spot fines' for this. Resources I guess.

Again I'm not arguing, but I'm not making mindless posts about imaginary departments doing their best either.

It doesn't even have to go as far as fines, the police could remind cyclists to use the road and warn them against using pavements.

Just feel prevention and education on this subject is better than cure.

Prevention means surely get off and stay off the pavement?

Education? well, if the police do their job of reminding them that is education.

Better than Cure? There is nothing difficult about the cure apply the existing laws. How many innocent pedestrians will have to come to harm, before we once more have the sensible rules of pavements enforced?

[katex]

Originally Posted by Less

Again I'm not arguing, but I'm not making mindless posts about imaginary departments doing their best either.

It doesn't even have to go as far as fines, the police could remind cyclists to use the road and warn them against using pavements.



Prevention means surely get off and stay off the pavement?

Education? well, if the police do their job of reminding them that is education.

Better than Cure? There is nothing difficult about the cure apply the existing laws. How many innocent pedestrians will have to come to harm, before we once more have the sensible rules of pavements enforced?

It's not imaginary departments Less .. just have some one close that works with city councils and Transport Departments in laying down cycle lanes and transport routes. Safety is always the highest priority.

Of course, a good telling off is helpful ...all you say is valid .. still feel a public information broadcast wouldn't do any harm either. Just offering alternative suggestions.

[mattylad]

Originally Posted by Less

Does this give the cyclist the right, morally or legally to make pavements unsafe for pedestrians?

Notice the title of this thread?

I notice that you are completely twisting what I have said, I was referring to those on the road and you know it - you have miss quoted me as you usually seem to do on every topic.

Originally Posted by Less

Instead of moving onto the pavements shouldn't cyclists be insisting on their right to use the roads safely?

How can they with people like Accyman about who do not even think they should be on the road?

Originally Posted by Less

A very poor excuse, a cyclist by obeying the rules of the road and by riding defensively CAN use the roads safely.

Yet again, twisting what has been said, what are the rules of the road for cyclist then? Have you ever read them?

A cyclist has every right to use the whole width of the road although it is not always advised due to the great big lumps of metals being driven by people not taking notice.

ANd with the extremely poor state of some of the roads a cyclist CANNOT always use the road safely sticking to the left at all times.

Originally Posted by Less

Don't use bad practice of motorists as an excuse to use bad practice yourself, the pavement is a sanctuary of safety for pedestrians, you have no legal right to perambulate along it.

Where did I excuse anyone cycling on the pavement? twisting again.

I'm sure there is a song about that!

Originally Posted by Less

If, as I have already mentioned the Police actually enforced the laws already at their disposal, ensuring motorists took care on the road making it safer for cyclists and ensuring that without exception anyone found riding a bike on the pavement or ignoring traffic lights and other such misdemeanour's was prosecuted we would not need this discussion.

That's about the only thing you have said that is not twisting what I said & actually makes sense.

Originally Posted by Less

it's a shame that these heroes of the road are often lumped together with the poor examples set by the, 'I don't give a sod about you brigade' of ignorant riders.

Just like the "I don't give a sod about anyone else" motorised vehicle drivers.

There are ignorant people all over the place, these days people just do not give a sod about anyone else, its all a me, me ,me - I'm all right jack & sod you society.

I just spent a good 10 minutes waiting at a roundabout by Haslingden Tesco roundabout because the ignorance of everyone else was not allowing a big HGV to pull out when it was obvious he needed the whole width of the road, even when he was 1/2 way out they were still insisting on pulling out and going round & in front of him.

Noone gives a toss any more, not about poeple using the roads and certainly not about poeple cycling on the pavement.

If you feel so strongly about it then stop them, tell them to get off yourself.

Better still, get a bicycle and cycle on some roads yourself, see how bad & dangerous it can be on the roads.

There is no excuse for cycling into a pedestrian or not fitting a horn/bell but there ARE reasons why it can often be safer to cycle on the pavement.
Which is why a lot of the cycle lanes also extend onto pavements.

Burnley has several cycle lanes that extend onto & along pavements, there is one near the roundabout mentioned above.

[Less]

Originally Posted by katex

It's not imaginary departments Less .. just have some one close that works with city councils and Transport Departments in laying down cycle lanes and transport routes.

Of course, a good telling off is helpful ...all you say is valid .. still feel a public information broadcast wouldn't do any harm either. Just offering alternative suggestions.

Ah so now we have it, you aren't really giving us an unbiased view because you have a relative working on 'projects'.

Perhaps, (without prejudice to him/herself of course), you could ask if when cycle lanes are placed on pavements are the local by-laws or indeed any laws changed to allow cyclists legally on the pavement?

Also, if there is no cycle lane, does the law still exist denying cyclists any right to use pavements?

Rather than blame the cyclist for doing what has been allowed by neglect of duty by the Police, (both on and off the road), I would like to see pedestrians, cyclists and all other road users ensuring the safety of each other.

Safety is always the highest priority.

If the above is true then surely the rights of the pedestrian must take precedent above any rights of the cyclist?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by mattylad

And why is it that someone felt the need to give me karma saying ????

Was that by chance you Accyman?
Someone does not appear to like someone sticking up for some of the cyclists.

Perhaps Mick could look into who is being abusive with the karma?

Your lucky mattylad they don't usually give clues when issuing the Red Stuff

[Less]

Originally Posted by mattylad

And why is it that someone felt the need to give me karma saying ????

Was that by chance you Accyman?
Someone does not appear to like someone sticking up for some of the cyclists.

Perhaps Mick could look into who is being abusive with the karma?

And perhaps you could check the rules, karma comments are not to be discussed on site, if you have a problem with abusive karma comments you report them to the mods you don't repeat the abuse on here.

Though I do feel that it is sad that someone could be so stupidly petty and give you this abuse.

[katex]

Originally Posted by Less

Ah so now we have it, you aren't really giving us an unbiased view because you have a relative working on 'projects'.

That is a really nasty snide comment Less ... we all pick up our knowledge from people who have the knowledge.
Perhaps, (without prejudice to him/herself of course), you could ask if when cycle lanes are placed on pavements are the local by-laws or indeed any laws changed to allow cyclists legally on the pavement?

Will find out just for you.

Also, if there is no cycle lane, does the law still exist denying cyclists any right to use pavements?

Silly man ... of course not ! We all agree with you ... you just looking for someone to argue this point.

Rather than blame the cyclist for doing what has been allowed by neglect of duty by the Police, (both on and off the road), I would like to see pedestrians, cyclists and all other road users ensuring the safety of each other.

Don't we all ... that point has been put forward ... respect for each other.



If the above is true then surely the rights of the pedestrian must take precedent above any rights of the cyclist?

On the pavement ... yes. Again who is arguing ????

Grrrr . you really are exasperating Less .. when we all agree you just go on and on trying to incite a dispute....

[Less]

Originally Posted by katex

Grrrr . you really are exasperating Less .. when we all agree you just go on and on trying to incite a dispute....

NO I don't you just word yourself into a corner.

[katex]

Originally Posted by Less

NO I don't you just word yourself into a corner.

Actually Less .. I am rather proud of my contribution on this thread .. feel I have conducted myself with intelligent thought, alternative suggestions and managing to hold my temper without doing any mud slinging .. Oh, and I always take on board what other people have to say on a subject, without putting on my blinkers.

[mattylad]

Unlike others...

[Less]

Originally Posted by katex

Actually Less .. I am rather proud of my contribution on this thread .. feel I have conducted myself with intelligent thought, alternative suggestions and managing to hold my temper without doing any mud slinging .. Oh, and I always take on board what other people have to say on a subject, without putting on my blinkers.

I'm quite proud of myself, an important subject and although I feel the cyclists quite rightly are justified in defending their rights to be safely on the road a shame, none have genuinely said it is wrong for their kind to use the pavement.

Originally Posted by mattylad

Unlike others...

Yes, there is nothing worse than the two word 'I'm feeling sorry for myself', post that helps keep the topic away from it's main points.