Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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So as you say, back in 1869 the address of the Slaters Arms, whether it was the pictured premises or a premises further along could very well have been number 21, but that isn't really relevant to the location of the pub pictured, which was the theme of the thread. Take a look at the little section of the OS map I stuck on here the other night. The premises I marked with a red cross is the premises in the photo(s). Next count the individual properties from the corner of Peel St, where almost everyone agreed was the start of Whalley Rd. You have number 1 on the curved corner of Peel St, then 3, 5, 7, 9 (then there's a yard or something), then the last property on that block (number 11), cross Marquis St and you have the Slaters Arms at number 13. Pubs changed names at times, sometimes even changed house number / premises number, but I'm convinced that the pub in the photo was number 13 Whalley Road when the photo was taken (not 21 and not 23). |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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I could have sworn that you referred to a directory, but if not, then my apologies. Where then did you source the fact that in 186? it was at number 23? The census returns possibly (they never contained errors did they;)). Not that it matters, as I have just explained to katex, the photo under discussion was an early 20th century image, not a mid 19th century one. At the time the photo was taken, the Slaters was number 13. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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Retlaw. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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What's that old saying 'Don't believe everything you read in the papers' Not for a second saying they were wrong back in 1869 mind you, they were probably right, but as in my last two comments, it's information that is totally irrelevant to the 1920's / 30's photo that was being discussed. Anyway, I'm trying to watch the football,so got to go. have a pleasant evening ! |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
Take a look at the little section of the OS map I stuck on here the other night. The premises I marked with a red cross is the premises in the photo(s). Next count the individual properties from the corner of Peel St, where almost everyone agreed was the start of Whalley Rd. You have number 1 on the curved corner of Peel St, then 3, 5, 7, 9 (then there's a yard or something), then the last property on that block (number 11), cross Marquis St and you have the Slaters Arms at number 13.
Pubs changed names at times, sometimes even changed house number / premises number, but I'm convinced that the pub in the photo was number 13 Whalley Road when the photo was taken (not 21 and not 23).[/quote] There was a lot more property on Whalley Rd from the top of Peel St, to the junction with Marquis St. Peel St wasn't always as wide as that, and the numbers didn't jump the empty space, you refer to as a yard, empty plots which were intended for property, were included in the numbering system, when house numbering became compulsory in the late 1850's. Your 1909 map may be right for that year, but thats all it is, right for that year. There are many streets and roads in Accrington with gaps in the numbering system Warner St has been renumbered from top to bottom and bottom to top twice since 1860. Retlaw. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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To prove newspapers made gross errors can be found on Accringon's War Memorial, most of those names came from the Greater Accrington Roll of Honour, which has resulted in 11 men being named twice, through printing errors. Retlaw. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
I think his danders up:D
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Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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Time for a truce please fellas
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Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
1 Attachment(s)
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I've attached further proof that it was originally 21& 23 Whalley Rd, The licensing renewals show it & the 1871 Census gives the same information. How much more proof is he going to need, before he puts his hand up. Retlaw. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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Your 1909 map may be right for that year, but thats all it is, right for that year. There are many streets and roads in Accrington with gaps in the numbering system Warner St has been renumbered from top to bottom and bottom to top twice since 1860. Retlaw.[/QUOTE] Heck Walt, you don't need a degree in town planning to see that the old 1909 map and the 2 photos match perfectly. In the second photo that shows both the Slaters and the Peel/Broadway pub, you can see they were more or less opposite one another. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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You are clutching at straws sir and your comment ''Why should I back down when I know I'm right'' just about says it all. There's not even a mere hint from you to suggest that I might (just might) be correct. It's that arrogance and attitude that brought me into this discussion. I took umbrage at the fact that you were (seemingly) reprimanding more junior members, because they dared to offer opinions on a discussion that you had already decided was done and dusted (even though it wasn't). Yes, you carry on telling everyone you're right, produce as many documents you like (irrelevant as they are), but if people study the evidence enough, they will arrive at their own conclusion. I've had enough experience when researching local history to know that no single source is evidence enough, there's a need to cross reference and cross reference again, but if some want to believe you are right, because YOU say you're right, that is their choice. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
Who would of though Local History could be so intence.
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Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
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I've never disputed that it was on the opposite corner to the Peel. My argument is the number of the property, 21& 23 Whalley Rd, both in the licencing renewals, and the 1871 census show the same man in the same prroperty 21 & 23 Whalley Rd. 1860, 1909 or 1920, the property had the same number. Retlaw. |
Re: Accy Old Photo's - John Kelly's Album
Dont stop now Retlaw and Blacburnlad. I do so enjoy your little contretemps. Long may it continue.
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