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Re: The value of public funded art
didnt know you weighed 17 stone rindy .....:confused::D:D:D
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Perhaps there is a good one in your area that could give you assistance? :D |
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I'll never give up, mainly because I believe what's happening is totally wrong. Though I'd still like the tank of formaldehyde, to pickle tax payer funded 'community art'. |
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People pay me to attend functions, such as funerals, gallery openings, first nights at the theatre, rock concerts, situation comedy audiences, etc. I'm a professional hysteric, and am highly valued, by those who pay for my services. ;) :D |
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Rindy takes his Life long Stage Partner spuggie on one last tour of the sticks.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:x...5x1000.jpg&t=1 |
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In the real world, away from state funding, I believe it's known as commerce. Supply, and demand. If there isn't any demand, and no wants to part with money, in exchange for what's being offered, supply ceases. Quaint concept for some to get their head round, I know. :rolleyes: |
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which ones which less? :D:D:D |
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;) |
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Perhaps you're right. It does seem a little odd that all the other costs have (sort of) been made public, to allow people to decide the value of those community art project for themselves, and yet the cost to the public purse of the final phase is cloaked in mystery, only to be revealed after the Victorian Swimming Gala has taken place. The longer the amount of funds to put on this art event remain a secret, the more people will speculate that perhaps the cost is so shocking, it wouldn't be wise to let people know the facts. Though even if that is the case, and uproar is feared, it doesn't excuse the fact that the culture minister recently said that the costs of publicly funded art should be made transparent. Odd then, on two accounts, as to why we aren't to be told. :rolleyes: Quote:
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Come on Rindy, it's time you did what you are good at, dress yourself up as a French Queen and let them eat cake.:)
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my photos of the spugster arent suitable for a family site .... :D:D:D |
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Although the comparisson, of the cosseted few, spending extravagantly, whilst the majority of people went hungry, I do find rather apt. I'm sure my interest in this thread will diminish, just as soon as we know all the costs involved, so as to make it easier when deciding on 'the value of publicly funded art'. Unless another event happens in the future, which might benefit from discussion, in the cost versus value debate, of state funded community art. In which case it could run forever. Or at least until my one good typing finger ceases to function. ;) |
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Gayle, just give him a price will you ! Look how many pages this has dragged on for, he's like a Terrier after a Rat & he won't give up until he's had an answer. (Admittedly he'll probably rattle on for a couple more pages once he knows, but hey ho ! In the long run it'll be better for everyone :D)
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I've been informed someone, not me, has asked for the full funding costs under the Freedom of Information Act. So regardless, the truth will out....eventually. |
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:o |
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On your last point, don't worry. When my last good typing finger no longer does as I want it to, I'll sellotape an old biro to my forehead, and I'll carry on tapping away. Carry on tapping out, what I believe to be the truth. That being that the majority of people don't agree that their hard earned taxes are spent on such fripperies as 'community art'. More so, when the country is in the dire straits it currently is. Financially, and morally, the vanity of state funded art is unaffordable. |
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Doesn't it make a difference to you, even though you say art isn't of interest to you, that you're funding it, regardless as to whether you want to, or not? If someone was struggling to keep a roof over their familys' heads, and hard to find money to keep them warm and fed, they'd be pretty stupid spending money having the front door painted. State funded art schemes seem unwanted, by the vast majority of people, who see very little value and worth in them, both finacially and artistically. Still, it's only 'two bob' of your money...or £2,000.00, to be more precise, if you want to teach the next generation of Banksys to pefect their tag in an Accrington park, before sharing their graffiti with us on a lager scale. |
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:rolleyes: Perhaps we should also be applying for funding for those young people who have an interest in knives, mugging, and nicking cars, so they can have a more creative outlet, other than that already supplied by schools, youth groups etc. :rolleyes: |
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In the the late twenties and early nineteen thirties young people also stood on street corners. Mainly because there was no jobs, and they were hungry. They didn't 'wreck parks', or need state funding to stimulate their creativity, and keep them out of trouble. They needed state funding to put some food in the bellies. They didn't need a bribe, to make them behave in a civilised fashion. Throwing money at a problem, doesn't necessarily solve it. |
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Genuinely. However there are many youth groups who receive no funding, other than that they raise themselves. My dad ran one for many years. I also attended one myself. I'll say again, throwing money at something doesn't always mean that that is the answer. Paying some one two thousand pounds to organise graffiti being sprayed on a wall in Oak Hill Park, is utterly ludicrous. |
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Nor have young people ever had as much materially. If there's still anti-social behaviour, something's wrong. Probably due chanelling tax payers' money into brain dead, community art schemes. |
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Also, if a youth group qualifies for some funding, and they decide to use some of that money on materials for crafts and hobbies, that is their decision. This in not the same as spending thousands of pounds of council tax payers' money, paying so called profesional artists, to crochet freakin' wooly caterpillars, and exhibit them under the umberalla name of 'community art' |
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Respect is earned, like the taxes that fund such lunacy. |
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:rolleyes: |
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Has Gayle has decided never to darken this website again, as she said she might? I can't say I blame her if she has, she's taken some stick on here.
However, she never did tell us what Hyndburns contribution to the 'Cultural Olympics' London 2012 would be and what it was going to cost.Does anyone know? |
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She always struck me as someone of reasonable intelligence, surely she knows it goes with the territory? :) As for 'Cultural Olympics', how could any Town that puts forward the examples we have had so far be even considering itself, 'Cultural'? :confused: |
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There's been open debate before, about the value of publicly funded ar in the area. http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...hem-17904.html http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ire-17860.html http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ght-10871.html http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...poll-8988.html If the people employed by the tax payer to promote community art, wish to enter into a public debate as to the worth and value of such things, that is totally up to them. |
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Besides, although it's now apparent Gayle's role is now much more than as that of creative director of the Civic arts centre, and is now concerned with all the arts in Hyndburn, surely there must be more than one person who knows the funding costs of specific events? Since the information has now been released that Hyndburn Borough Council are providing 'about' 25% of the funding costs, perhaps one of our councillors will inform the public of the finances from the public purse that are involved? Until such time as there is complete and total openess, and real transparency, of all the funding costs involved, for ALL events, the public has really very little chance of evaluating the true worth to us of community art. |
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Whilst I would have to say that the grant money is nice... 'Mediatricks helps young, small to medium sized businesses promote their company in unique and economical ways.' '...we can help you promote your products or services to your target markets.' 'Google Page Ranking stands for Public Relations. Effective Google Page Ranking aims to strengthen, maintain and shape a company's position within its markets and secure its reputation in the community as a whole.' 'My business is marketing and publicity, but one area that I was lacking knowledge was financially' Hyndburn Enterprise Trust - Means Better Business If all publicity is good publicity, she'll probably pop back soon to thank those who've helped in publicising the events showcased by the companies and professionals involved, who've benefited from public funding, and who have exhibited such creative and diverse community arts for us here in Hyndburn. |
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'The Sunday Times article states the Government has “expressed surprise at the sums paid” and Ed Vaizey the Culture Minister is quoted as saying: “There really must be full transparency for all publicly funded arts bodies”. 'There is also a statement from the Arts Council expressing a similar, though more limited, sentiment: “Anybody in receipt of significant public money should be transparent about their core funding costs”. mySociety Blog Archive Minister Demands Full Transparency for all Publicly Funded Arts Bodies In the interest of good Google Page Ranking, as well as this new climate of openess and transparency, I just wish someone, anyone, would inform the people funding it, just what those funding costs are for the forthcoming Victorian Swiming Gala, then we can finally assess the true value of publicly funded art. |
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We were informed of the costs of all the other events, including the costs of the flash mob, which had yet to happen. Which makes people wonder why this event is different from the rest. The fact that the cost of the flash mob was stated as one thousand pounds, that being the fee paid to the dance teacher, when infact it was £1,160.00, is neither here nor there. Powered by Google Docs The 'issue is' we are supposdly, according to the government's Minister of Culture, living in a time when all publicly funded art projects should be open, and transparent about their funding. It shouldn't be a game of peek-a-boo. Some you see. Some you don't. If it is, it leaves people wondering why the costs of some art events are being kept hidden, until after they've happened, and when the professional artists have banked their fees, and safely headed back over the Pennines to Yorkshire. As for 'judging'. It seems a little odd that someone starts a thread, asking people to judge the value of publcly funded art, if they aren't to be given all the relevant information as to make that possible. Whether those involved decide it would be wise to release the cost of funding this event now, is up to them. It will become public knowledge. That could be before the Victorian Swimming Gala has happened. Doesn't sound like particularly good Google Page Ranking, not to be honest and open about it, at this present time. |
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Unlike the flash mob apparently, and unlike anything else in the real world of commerce? You don't go into an estate agents, wanting to buy a house, and they take your money, but without actually telling you how much the house is valued at, or how much they've taken, and thus allowing you the right to decide if it is worth what was paid. ;) |
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Therefore you are able to evaluate the value of public funded art, and thus making it harder to 'see the issue', unlike everyone else. ;) |
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'Three hundred grand?' 'For that tumble down shack!' 'Are they having a laugh?' 'No one in their right mind will pay that for it!' ;) |
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Like I say.
There is an art to defending the indefensible. Though I've yet to meet anyone with that much valued skill. |
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I really wonder what the hell is going on up there...money is being spent like it's going out of fashion...Fifteen thousand on free bags of grit for Hyndburn's wealthy...two thousand quid on some junk mail called the 'Beacon' (how well will that burn, I wonder?)....another couple of thousand for some idiots to cavort on Broadway. Have the powers-that-be gone completely bonkers? |
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'So we, the public, can try and evaluate the worth of the project, are you saying that the costs involved for the whole flash mob dance is £1,000.00? Absolutely no other funding costs?' The reply (in post 230) was... Quote:
According to page two of this link, the actual funding cost was ... Total budget £1,160 Dance prep x 1 day £100 9 groups @ £15 per hour £810 Performance co-ordination £100 Admin £150 Powered by Google Docs I agree with you. The whole point of flash mobs is they cost nowt to put on, even the ones attracting thousands of people. Certainly they don't cost the tax payer a penny to arrange them. It does leave many people pondering why the funding costs of the Victorian Swimming Gala are to be kept secret...until after the event. Surely it can't be that we'd be shocked as to the costings? We'd all keep that in mind, realising funding is relative to the worth, when working out the 'value to us of public funded art', like the swimming event. |
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Maybe its just to wind you lot up ;) Its working really well :D:D:D:D |
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I'm agreeing with the saying that 'All publicity, even when it's bad, is good publicity'. In which case this tax payer funded fiasco, will be a a roaring success. Still, in this climate of transparency and cuts, the time of living off the cream, skimmed from the top of the tax payers' collective milk bottle, will soon be over. Forget wind, as in clock. That'll put the wind, as in blow, up all those arty types who can't make a living commercially, but who have had to rely on state funding to make a living. That'll put more smiles on people's faces, than their so called 'community art' ever did. ;) |
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Are any of the artists/companies involved in any of these events, past or present clients? |
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Oh, that's very sad. As it is when any commercial business fails. A local one especially. Just crossed my mind, with a name like Mediatricks, that you'd been suprisingly clever, and tricked us all into providing a media, in which to promote the businesses you represented. Guess not. We digress, back to the subject of the thread, 'the value of public funded art. Perhaps the reason the fundings costs of the Victorian Swimming Gala are being kept (sort of) secret, until after the event, unlike all the others, is because the public will indeed be very shocked. Not at the vast amounts of money involved, but because it's so cheap, and that we'd therefore not have very high expectations, when it comes to assessing the quality of the performance. Perhaps the shock, and the real reason the funding costs are being cloaked in secrecy, is that the performing clowns will be heading back to Yorkshire, not with sack loads of Hyndburn payers' taxes, but five loaves, two fishes, and a black pudding between them, as their fee. :rolleyes: |
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If it makes you happier... Oh, that's very sad. As it is when any commercial business ceases trading. A local one especially. Sadly the continued silence, regarding making the costs of the Victorian Swimming Gala known to the public who are actually funding it, as both the Minister of Culture and the Arts Council say it should be, suprises no one. Apparently the information has to be released within twenty days, after it has been requested under the Freedom of Information Act. I have no idea when the person who requested the funding costs did this, but there's the very real possibilty that the information will be in the public domain before the event anyway. Which makes the continued silence a bit of a Google Page Ranking disaster. Again I apologise if you think I've been 'snidy' (sic). I don't think I have. The only things I've said about you personally have been positive. I prefer to see the good in people. Which is why I knew you yourself weren't being snidey, when referring to 'suit sellers', as I'd (wrongly) been reported in the press of doing, and 'cake makers', which I believe is the nature of Acrylic-bob's successful business, when you asked what were worthwhile jobs, in post 10 of this thread. Still, not long to go. Let's hope the weather picks up before the 27th, or the Yorkshire clowns really will be swimming down Broadway. (No need to thank me, for yet one more plug for the event.) :) |
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Go on. As well as helping the people who are funding it, and who might be struggling to evaluate the value of publicy funded art, suprise them. |
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Originally Posted by garinda
'So we, the public, can try and evaluate the worth of the project, are you saying that the costs involved for the whole flash mob dance is £1,000.00? Absolutely no other funding costs?' Quote:
Dance prep x 1 day £100 9 groups @ £15 per hour £810 Performance co-ordination £100 Admin £150 Powered by Google Docs Could you possibly throw any light on this apparent discrepancy, regarding the funding costs of the flash mob event? :confused: |
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No mention of VAT @ 17.5%.
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Again, no thanks, in helping promote the event.
I'm sure we'll all have learnt the steps soon, and we'll then consider it money very well spent. YouTube - civicartscentre's Channel |
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sorry to go back to the flash mob ... but on the flash mob website .. which advertises them .. it does have Dance accy on it .. but its the only one with funding .. none of the rest mention it at all ...
Flashmob Dancing Accy | Flashmob.co.uk On 20th November, between 1pm and 2pm, there will be a Flash Mob in Accrington Town Centre. Four dances will happen during the hour. Assemble on Broadway in Accrington to watch and join in. This is phase 3 of project called Liberating Empty Terrain which aims to bring people back into Accrington Town Centre. Phase 1 and 2 included Mapping Accy, Animating Accy and Crotcheting Accy. This project is co-funded by Hyndburn Borough Council and the Arts Council via Creativity Works and is part of a Pennine Lancashire Initiative to reinvigorate town centres. plymouth's: It’s getting cold and everyone needs a hug right? So how about we get as many of the good people of plymouth in the same place, at the same time and share a hug with friends and strangers to let eachother know that actually, most people really are cool and friendly. so, the plan- everyone turn up on armada way between the big sundial and the big screen at about 1:55pm on the 13th of november and keep an eye on the clock on the big screen, so at 2pm exactly…hug a friend, hug a stranger, hug your mum, hug my mum, hug both our mums at the same time, hug whoever you want to hug. the rules 1- respect other people’s personal space, ask someone if they want a hug before you go for it 2-hugs will go on as long as they have to 3-no bottom pinching. see rule 1. 4-invite your friends and let’s see how many people we can have hugging at once Now go forth and spread the word! Invite everyone you know who thinks life is better when you’ve just had a hug, everyone who believes strangers are really nice people as well and everyone who still thinks love can change the world! Leeds: At 3pm on saturday the 25th of november we meet up at a site yet to be decided sync watches then head to the centre of brigate in leeds. People need to looks like they are going about there general business but be around the right area as soon as it hits 3pm people freeze for 5min and then carry on after the 5 min has gone. Manchester: To take place in the centre of Manchester. A flashmob about giving, interacting with strangers and simple kindness, because we don’t have enough of that, right? A massive group of people will assemble and as the clocks strike 12pm, get on their knees, and present to a complete stranger a gift. It could be small and seemingly insignificant - a balloon, or a banana, or a spoon. Or it could be your red Ferrari as you have one lying around, cluttering the drive. Whatever you want. It’s time to put a (bemused) smile on someone’s face! Check out our website at mobtogive.tumblr.com Theyre simple .. dont need to learn a dance .. |
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Please, please, please tell me that this is a joke.
I think that flash mobbing started in the US about 5 years ago; it was about a spontaneous display, creating street art by members of the public; as such it was the very antithesis of funded and elitist art. I remember about 18 months ago I was caught up at Liverpool St station when about 10,000 turned up for a performance. Amazing . And it cost not a penny. Whatever this stuff is that is planned for Accy, it has absolutely nowt to do with flash mobbing. Call it a dance show, call it a disco, call it what you will - but not this. Ooops..just seen the previous post....but look! No dance troops in Plymouth, Manchester or Leeds...just people turning up to make the event. |
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Nothing required from the public purse at all. YouTube - civicartscentre's Channel A great fat zero, and a saving of £1,160.00 ;) |
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Ok, the cost of a pair of leg-warmers.
;) |
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Flashmob FAQs | Flashmob.co.uk
What is a Flash Mob? It’s a sudden gathering of people into a crowd that do something unusual for a few minutes in unison and then disperse. Who runs Flash Mobs? Flash mobs are run by individual people for the fun of it. There are no organisations behind real Flash Mobs, though there have been many gatherings using Flash Mob principles organised by commercial interests. How can I go to a Flash Mob? You need to find a group that is close to your location flashmob.co.uk should be one of your choices for keeping in touch by reading the site and following us on Twitter and you could through social networking sites such as Facebook and Myspace for groups setting up Flash Mobs. Do I need props? Generally no, though themed flashmobs are on the increase, but if an item is needed you will be notified in the instructions e-mailed to you. Can I dress up for a Flash Mob? Generally this is frowned upon as the idea is for a crowd to suddenly appear out of nowhere and if everyone is dressed as clowns it may just give the game away! Can you do a Flash Mob for my product launch? Several corporates have tried this, the first to really jump on the bandwagon were the band Jane’s Addiction and certain news media companies did their own banana based stunt in London. Yes you can do a commercial version of flash mobbing but don’t expect any help from traditional Flash mob organisers - if you can find them. The whole spirit of the idea gets a little bit tainted as soon as anyone tries to use flash mobs as a communication exercise and the public can be quite cynical about your objectives. But if you do go ahead then do remember that success relies on ordinary members of the public enjoying themselves - how would you feel being used to promote something you may not believe in. There has never been a Flash Mob in my town, can I set one up? Yes go ahead and do it - enjoy yourself. If you need help and tips then get in contact by e-mail with the organisers of other flash mob groups who will give you plenty of advice. Look for contact details on Twitter, Facebook, Myspace or flash mob websites, or Yahoo/Google Groups. |
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The Manchester one could prove quite novel ! :D A pork pie to a vegetableist, a banana to .... we'll leave that one alone? :eek: a can of Beer to a reformed Alcoholic ? Issues all over it.
It’s time to put a (bemused) smile on someone’s face! And get lamped in the process, we're talking Manchester here ! Random acts of kindness don't happen & if they do they are usually judged with a large dollop of suspicion, quality ! There are definitely some strange folk out there. |
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'The term flash mob is generally applied only to gatherings organized via telecommunications, social media, or viral emails.' 'The term is generally not applied to events organized by public relation firms, protests, and publicity stunts.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob Otherwise it loses it's spontaneity, energy, and point really, and would be considered a bit naff, by anyone with any real artistic integrity. |
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'The term flash mob is generally applied only to gatherings organized via telecommunications, social media, or viral emails.' 'The term is generally not applied to events organized by public relation firms, protests, and publicity stunts.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob Otherwise it loses it's spontaneity, energy, and point really, and would be considered a bit naff, by anyone with any real artistic integrity. Certainly by the cool youths, who started doing them ten years ago. |
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Well, folks - I think we've got the point across now. Whatever this is in Accy, it ain't a flash mob event.
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Costly. |
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And... Quote: Originally Posted by garinda http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...s/viewpost.gif Again, no thanks, in helping promote the event. I'm sure we'll all have learnt the steps soon, and we'll then consider it money very well spent. YouTube - civicartscentre's Channel Responded to by garinda Although if you'd gone down the more tradition route, the costs would have been zilch... Quote: Originally Posted by garinda http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...s/viewpost.gif Approach local dance schol. Find out who is good, and perhaps wants to dance as a career. Ask if they'd help video an easy to learn sequence, which would be filmed, after promissing them you'll write a reference, if/when they apply to study dance at college, and perhaps throw in a new pair of leg-warmers. Make sure details of event, and video showing what people should do at allotted time of flash mob, are sent to every school, youth club, community centre, whoever else might be interested, in the area. Sit back, and watch it happen. Responded to by garinda No fees, no admin. charges, no charge for performance co-ordination. Nothing required from the public purse at all. YouTube - civicartscentre's Channel A great fat zero, and a saving of £1,160.00 ;) That has to be a first, even for an accyweb pedant/troll/spammer....quoting and responding to ones own post.. There's always one...sits at the end of the bar, bores the crap out of everyone, keeps on harping on the same point..over and over and over and over and over and over again. Why not just use copy/paste and a disclaimer..something along the lines of 'here is yet another post from me in this thread where I am posting the same thing AGAIN but one or two words may be added in yet another vain attempt at humour/wit/sarcasm/irony/name dropping' (delete as appropriate) Yawn! |
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How small was the small print on the candidates agenda? :confused: |
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I think you may just have fired the opening salvoes there "Guinness". As you are likely to find out very soon ! On firing the gun don't be so surprised at the God awful bang that follows ! ;)
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Think they should start a new thread ? "Battle of the G's !" "The G sport ?" just suggestions mind. |
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Good luck. ;) |
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Compare the two? Rindys input helps keeps the site alive for Guiness to criticise. |
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He's hardly worth bothering to respond to. To use an art analogy. He's a crocheter, to my Caravaggio. Read his old posts. A comic work of art. Priceless. :rolleyes: |
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It'd be interesting as to why we were told, quite clearly, that the flash mob event was 'only' costing a thousand pounds. When it seems there's clear evidence it cost £1,160.00. A difference of more than just 'two bob'. It doesn't fill you with confidence, that the true costs will ever become public knowledge. Thus making it impossible for the public to truly work out the value to them of publicly funded art. |
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Recall when you were first asked to join by yr lad and give input on Monte Cristo.....'Less the food critic', yeah I was there when you took your first tentative steps here :P And yes again, garinda keeps the site alive, but that dont mean he's fire proof and cant be assailed by us lurkers when we think he is wrong. After all in this thread we have less than 30 voters....does that mean we have only 30 people who are interested in the thread? Are people only measured by post count? I could answer my own over and over and over and over and over again to get my post count up if you want. In fact I could even answer my own posts too! |
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Pretty colours, in your post, by the way. Did those nice teachers show you how to do that, when you weren't busy licking the windows? Very artistic. Well done you. :gooddog: |
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But you're still bottom of the heap. ;) |
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To use a Lancastrian analogy : What's a caravan got to do with it? |
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Oh Guiness thanks for the memories, unfortunately you are useless for anything else, we've all moved on since then except...
YOU? |
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Certainly not a battle of wits, with equal footing. As an art form, sadly predictable. http://freechristimages.org/images_1...ggio_small.jpg As for the spoils of war. Anyone tired with boring old sheep's head stew, and fancies an Irish one, for a change? |
Re: The value of public funded art
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You can't afford my fee. Do your own work, or apply for funding. Anyone bored enough, or in need of a good laugh, can click on your username, and therefore read through your old posts, and can decide on their tone, if not their value, for themselves. ;) |
Re: The value of public funded art
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He once told me, under pressure, where his pot of gold was. I invested it in community art. |
Re: The value of public funded art
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However, whilst I have breath in my body, I will continue to say what I think is right and wrong too. I think it is very wrong that tax payers' money is squandered on community arts, and that the cost to the public is cloaked in secrecy, when our government quite clearly states that all funding costings for such things should be transparent. Lurk away if you will, but if you're bored, stop reading, because my lungs are full, and it's unlikely I'm about to draw my last breath anytime soon. ;) |
Re: The value of public funded art
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