A question for Mums - Page 3

panther · 10-11-2006, 19:39

my daughter is 12 and there is no way i would let her stand alone in the dark!

god i dont like her going to school on her own, but she has too! we have to realise that we cant wrap em up in cotton wool and that they have to go alone sometime, its the pervs that should be watched 24/7!

West Ender · 10-11-2006, 20:05

In these sad times when youngsters are in danger from even their own age-group, let alone anyone else, I would have thought the Youth Club would make more sensible arrangements. Why, if they can't visit every home, don't they pick up from, perhaps, well-lit bus stops?

Have you thought of going to see the people in charge and making your worries known? Are you the only parent who thinks this is unacceptable? I don't think much of a Youth Club leader who isn't up to speed with the situation on our streets these days and I'd be very tempted to tell them so.

Gayle · 10-11-2006, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I certainly do have the sense Willow. I do however wonder what vetting you may have done regarding the Hope Centre. Just because it is church run, (who's church?) does not mean it is a safe place to be. The carpark and entrance way is very dark and rather off putting for a start. Are the people who run the activities vetting in the same way as teachers are in a school? I very much doubt it. These groups are run my members of the church and not neccesarily the same people each week either. Who else is present within the building while the children are there? There is only one male and one female toilet and the main door to the building is left unlocked while activities take place so anyone could wander in.

Do you have any real evidence about all this stuff or is it just conjecture?

WillowTheWhisp · 10-11-2006, 20:27

Forgot to mention in answer to the question "Whose Church?" - The Hope Centre is a church. As far as I know it's a totally independant thing of its own.

Gayle · 10-11-2006, 20:35

It's a non-denominational Christian church.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-11-2006, 20:58

That's what I meant, I just used different words

CASPER · 10-11-2006, 22:27

I have been on edge camp with Moorhead as one of the adults responsible for the students and I have to say it is extremely well run. The edge team organise all of the activities, which run right from after breakfast until evening. They take great care of all students, who are also supervised by Moorhead staff. As you know Willow they have a great time and we look after them as if they were our own. As far as I am aware there has NEVER been any issue raised by any parents after the children have returned from camp. The Edge team give up their own time and holidays to entertain and look after your children and they have done it very well, ALL CREDIT TO THEM. I havent seen children playing as much as they do on camp. Activities include dodgeball, water games, team games, castle bombing and ALL the children loved nothing more than rolling down the hill (I used to love doing that).
I can't decide what your problem is, if you are so worried about them getting to Youth club then get them a taxi or keep them at home . I am not happy about you slagging off the Edge camp when both of your daughters have enjoyed it so much. It gives children confidence and a sense of independence and a week of playing safely, playing like children used to and should do. PLEASE don't put other parents off, children benefit from all the effort that the Edge team and the school staff put in and I for one am truly grateful for all of the Edge team's efforts

WillowTheWhisp · 10-11-2006, 23:44

I don't deny that my girls have enjoyed Edge Camp and neither of them have brought back any complaints about anything. I also realise that it's in the summer and there are not likely to be any chances of a girl being asked to wait somewhere in the dark on her own.

It is being asked to do that which gave me cause for concern - and the fact that the person who was giving her a lift didn't see anything wrong with asking a child to wait alone in the dark on a street corner down the road and out of sight of home did make me wonder if anyone else would have qualms about letting their 12 year old daughter do this. Which is why I posted this thread - and by the responses on here I can see that I'm not alone. Would you be happy for a 12 year old daughter of yours to stand at the top of Chester Street in the dark waiting for a mini bus alone? I'm puzzled that you "can't decide what my problem is" - it is exactly what I said - surely anyone concerned for the safety of a 12 year old girl wouldn't ask her to stand alone in the dark out of sight of home?

She wasn't too fussed about going to the Youth Club and decided off her own bat not to go. I couldn't tell them that last night because she'd gone to bed by the time they phoned to ask. Unfortunately although she did tell someone before she got home tonight the message must not have filtered through because they called at the house for her. (Which they had said they would do "just this once" on the phone to me last night.) Now as I've said if she has ever wanted to go and Busman been here then he has happily taken her. When both girls go to our own church Youth Group and get a lift from one of the adults who runs it then the person calls here at the house for them and drops them back off here at the house. If we have ever taken a child/teenager anywhere (either Busman or my late husband) they would be collected from their own home, taken back to their own home and watched as they went in to make sure they got in safely. That just seems natural to me. I would never dream of asking a child to wait on a dark street corner.

As I said earlier I have been to the Hope Centre to one of the reunion meetings and although it was a bit boisterous compared to what I'm used to I had no qualms about letting either or both of the girls go to the Youth Club there. I couldn't see any problems with the car park or the people or the toilets or any of the other things mentioned previously. If I had then I wouldn't have let them go.

Yes of course they could get a taxi if they wanted to go and Busman couldn't take them. That has never cropped up though because someone from the Hope Centre said there was no need because they would be collected in this mini bus if required. Mimi had other plans for this evening though as she went to a youth dance in Huddersfield with a bunch of youngsters from our church, in a minibus driven by a parent and delivered right back to the door and watched to see that she got in safely. Emz couldn't go as she is too young for those dances.

If you think I'm at fault for being concerned about my child's safety then I'm afraid we'll have to differ on that subject.

gabby · 11-11-2006, 00:06

sorry i disagree i have always been responsable for my children werever they went i would take them to a safe place and i would pick them up this responsability is yours if you want them to have outside intersts, you canot put the safty of your child onto some-one else unless it is agreed with them before hand . youth groups are there to help children not to take full responseability off the parent i am sorry if you dont agree with me but this is my view whitch has been asked for

gabby · 11-11-2006, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by CASPER

At least they pick her up, it would be worse if she had to make her own way there and back.
I personally would wait with her and if she didn't like it then she would be able to go.

i agree when your child reaches 12 years old the rules are down to you its your responsability as to where they go and with whoever but it is still your disition and responsability to make sure they are safe.

Neil · 11-11-2006, 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Do you have any real evidence about all this stuff or is it just conjecture?

Personal observations.

CASPER · 11-11-2006, 09:21

Would you be happy for a 12 year old daughter of yours to stand at the top of Chester Street in the dark waiting for a mini bus alone?
It wouldn't happen with my knowledge.

I'm puzzled that you "can't decide what my problem is" - it is exactly what I said - surely anyone concerned for the safety of a 12 year old girl wouldn't ask her to stand alone in the dark out of sight of home?
If it was me and I wasn't happy about the situation then I would either make other arangements or she would not go. NO PROBLEM

However, I am now beginning to wonder if the Edge Camps themselves are as well run as we have been led to believe if the youth club organsation may be as casual as you indicate.
Why create a problem where there isn't one. If you are not convinced after you have had all the information from the school and after your girls have enjoyed the camps then speak to someone from, either the Edge team or the school.
Its not fair to put unfounded doubts on this website that could discourage other parents from sending their children to camp. If there is a problem, then fair enough, if you haven't got a problem with edge camp then don't create one. Other children could miss out on a fantastic week at camp because of your comments.

CASPER · 11-11-2006, 09:33

As far as I am aware the Hope centre provide a free mini-bus service, picking up many children from around the area (saves on the bus fare). It is not a taxi service and it is optional.

WillowTheWhisp · 11-11-2006, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabby

sorry i disagree i have always been responsable for my children werever they went i would take them to a safe place and i would pick them up this responsability is yours if you want them to have outside intersts, you canot put the safty of your child onto some-one else unless it is agreed with them before hand . youth groups are there to help children not to take full responseability off the parent i am sorry if you dont agree with me but this is my view whitch has been asked for

I think you're missing the point gabby.

If my husband was at home he would take her.

I do not drive.

If my husband was not at home I could have got a taxi, I could have gone there with her in the taxi and waited there until they'd finished or got a taxi back home again and then got one back to collect her. If she had wanted to go and Busman couldn't have taken her then that would have been my next thought.

My point is that the Youth Club has a mini bus. My daughter was offered a lift in this mini bus. They have both gone by mini bus in the past and both gone by Busman-car in the past. Sometimes they have had other things they preferred to do instead. She was phoned on Thursday evening after she had gone to bed and so I took the call. I was asked if she needed a lift to send her to wait at the top of Chester Street for the mini bus.

As a responsible parent I did not find it acceptable for a 12 year old to be asked to stand on a street corner alone in the dark and wasn't prepared to let her do that. The options then could have been either she didn't go or she went by taxi. However when I ponted out to the guy on the phone that I didn't like the idea of her standing on the street corner alone in the dark he then said he would pick her up from home "just this once". I then decided to ask if other parents (apologies to Dads for only addressing this thread to Mums) felt as I do - in other words did anyone here think I was being over protective or just a normal responsible parent who cares about the welfare of her daughter.

There is also the other remote possibility that the phone call may not have been from the minibus driver but from some perv who'd overheard a conversation about this bus and lifts etc between my daughters and some of the Hope Centre folks who they often chat to in town. She could have been overheard telling someone her phone number. The person who phoned here could have asked her to wait out of sight of home and then kidnapped her, raped her and dumped her dead body somewhere. Unlikely? Maybe but as far as I'm concerned it's a possibility and another damn good reason not to expect someone involved with young kids to think its perfectly safe for a 12 year old girl to be asked to stand at the top of Chester St alone in the dark.

It's not about whether I coud have gone down there and stood with her. It's about her being asked to do that. Can't you understand that?

Now suddenly I'm the irresponsible one who "puts the safety of my child onto someone else."

There are times when a child has to do things on their own - going to school being one of them. You can't expect parents to take their children to school once they reach a responsible age - it would be impossible for parents who had a child say at Springhill and one at Moorhead to take both of them in opposite directions at the same time. Nobody can be in two places at once and at one time Emz went to Springhill and Mimi went to Moorhead - Mimi caught the bus to town outside our backdoor and the bus from town up to school, which they both now do. Am I irresponsible for letting them do that alone? Am I irresponsible for letting my 15 year old go to a dance with other 14 -18 year olds under adult supervision and taken there and brought back (door to door) by a friend of ours (and parent of one of the girls' friends) who has a mini bus? I don't drive. I couldn't have taken her.

Good grief if I'm supposed to go everywhere with them maybe I'd better ask if I can sign up for the school trips too. Maybe I can go to Edge Camp - not that I'd be any use because my health would make me a liability not an asset. Now I do abdicate responsibility in those cases because as a school governor I know that certain proceedures and checks have to take place before any school trip goes ahead - even a half day to the local park. However, in view of this street corner in the dark business I was beginning to wonder if I should verify that all checks have been done and that kids are never expected to do anything at camp which could put them in danger - but I got my head bitten off for that. Seems I can't win either way. I'm either too irresponsible or not trusting enough depending on who disagrees with me.

If I sound annoyed at being accused of shirking my responsibilities as a parent then that's because I am.

WillowTheWhisp · 11-11-2006, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by CASPER

As far as I am aware the Hope centre provide a free mini-bus service, picking up many children from around the area (saves on the bus fare). It is not a taxi service and it is optional.

Yes that's right and it's a lovely idea for those children who want to go and possibly wouldn't otherwise be able to get there. In fact I wouldn't object to offering a voluntary bit of something for petrol money (but wouldn't expect others to feel obliged just in case they couldn't afford it) It's just the dark street corner thing that bothered me.

It was Hope Centre people who approached the girls and invited them to go following Edge Camp. They've also been invited to go to the Sunday church meetings but haven't accepted that because we all go to our own church and they wouldn't want to swap. They go to our own church's activities but I see no reason why they shouldn't spread their horizons and share other things with other people too just as they've invited their friends to go along to some of our church activities. When they were younger they used to go to the Peel Street Baptists activity week thing during the school hols. Em has been to youth clubby type things there too sometimes.