Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Maybe I should start a new thread on this topic, but what benefits would you cut?

In 2004 the benefits bill was just over £70 billion a year. In 2013 its £120 billion. So this bill has risen by more than 50% against a falling tax take.

By any measure the UK Govt is bankrupt with debts exceeding £1trillion.

We don't have 50% more vulnerable people, don't have 50% more disabled people, don't have 50% more sick people, don't have 50% more people in need (recession causes hardship, but not 50% more).

So how does the govt cover the extra £50 billion? And should we be spending 50% more than in 2004? We've hit the credit card limit as a country, so what do you propose to cut?

This is the kind of neoclassical economic bs that reduces the human condition to percentages and corporate bottom lines. And this "credit card limit" garbage! We are discussing a major world economy here, linked to other major economies, and you use the analogy of a maxed out credit card! Gimme a break. Folks posting on this topic know whats going on ... they don't need elementary lectures in economics, Reaganomics, and Thatcherism.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

However, nobody living by themselves requires a 3/4/5 bedroomed property. What would be ideal for her would be to be rehoused in a smaller property.

thing is sugarmouse there arnt enough 1 bedroom properties to go round so people have no option but to take or stay in 2 bedroom properties

if there was enough 1 bedroom properties to go around and someone refused to move then maybe fair enough but there isnt

Also if you saw my post about twin valley and their 1 bedroom property a friend of mine recently moved into because of this bedroom tax would you think it fair you give up a clean 2 bedroom property that you have looked after and furnished to go live in a propperty that isnt fit to put a pig in because a lot of 1 bedroom properties are converted council houses in extreemly bad areas

[GEaston]

Well Eric, they are all listed here http://www.usdebtclock.org for us just click the World debt clock tab.

Major world economy.....yeah, right. So you look at these numbers and think everything is well in the world do you? Do you really?

I look at the numbers and think "ponzi scheme"

[westendlass]

Times are hard enough these days without the government heaping more pressure on hard pressed folk. They seem to make a point of picking on the most vulnerable in society (and therefore the easiest targets). It's not that long ago that MP's were exposed helping themselves to taxpayers money ie the duck house that one MP thought was essential and another who insisted we pay for his moat to be cleaned. Absolute disgrace !

[Eric]

Originally Posted by GEaston

Well Eric, they are all listed here U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time for us just click the World debt clock tab.

Major world economy.....yeah, right. So you look at these numbers and think everything is well in the world do you? Do you really?

I look at the numbers and think "ponzi scheme"

It's only "ponzi" when private citizens do it ... when governments do it, they give it another name or definition ... like, maybe "getting our house in order, so that we can, together, move in to the broad sunlit vistas of prosperity for all."

[accyman]

just another not on bedroom tax

the council will expect a person to leave a 2 bedroom property at say £90pw with a housing assossiation and happily pay £100pw upwards for a 1 bedroom property for that person.

bedroom tax actually costs the council money in the long run

[Sunflower49]

Originally Posted by accyman

thing is sugarmouse there arnt enough 1 bedroom properties to go round so people have no option but to take or stay in 2 bedroom properties

if there was enough 1 bedroom properties to go around and someone refused to move then maybe fair enough but there isnt

Also if you saw my post about twin valley and their 1 bedroom property a friend of mine recently moved into because of this bedroom tax would you think it fair you give up a clean 2 bedroom property that you have looked after and furnished to go live in a propperty that isnt fit to put a pig in because a lot of 1 bedroom properties are converted council houses in extreemly bad areas

You're right, and I did mention the same. As usual they've done half the job.
I will read that post-not now though the internet is rubbish here at the moment (I'm abroad) .

[cmonstanley]

Suicide of Bedroom Tax victim Stephanie Bottrill: Grandmother blames government in tragic note - Mirror Online one that we know about,picking on the vulnerable is a tory trait.look at care in the community in the eighties.

[Sunflower49]

It appears from that article, or points toward it at least, that she had struggled with depression or something of the same for a while by now. I can't help but think that somebody in a different ,more pragmatic frame of mind would have asked their family/friends for help, knowing they would rather that than this. I've no doubt her family must have been noble or loving enough to offer her at least a part of the extra monies.It seems she was unable to deal with her issues, either through her own onus or her family's.

The government are to blame for not assisting finding her somewhere else to live,but they're not to blame for her death. There were other options available, and her choice to not take them.

[accyman]

in my eyes the government caused her the final bit of stress that tipped her over the edge.Already stigmatised by government for been on benefit then subjected to bedroom tax alone could demoralise a sound of mind person.

the MPs will probbably gather round and insist this tradgedy shouldnt happen in a careing society but it is the government that has started the stigmitisation of the vlnerable,ill and unemployed and driven more than this one person beyond the point of despair.

teh country woud be in uproar if working people were charged extra council tax if they had a spare bedroom orif someone living alone in a house wasntgiven their %25 deduction for living alone if they had a spare bedroom but because its unemployed or ill people its acceptable

lets not forget many if not most people on the sick or unemployed have paid national insurance and tax which is a damn sight more than what a lot of folk who come through that channel tunnel have ever done

yet these ill and unemployed are cast as the scum of the country ?

[Less]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

It appears from that article, or points toward it at least, that she had struggled with depression or something of the same for a while by now. I can't help but think that somebody in a different ,more pragmatic frame of mind would have asked their family/friends for help, knowing they would rather that than this. I've no doubt her family must have been noble or loving enough to offer her at least a part of the extra monies.It seems she was unable to deal with her issues, either through her own onus or her family's.

The government are to blame for not assisting finding her somewhere else to live,but they're not to blame for her death. There were other options available, and her choice to not take them.

What a load of tripe!

A large part of the UK suffer from depression and can cope with it until they are pushed beyond their personal tipping point, her family no doubt would rather she had asked them than take this 'final solution'.
She had managed to deal with her 'issues' until hit by this ill thought out attack on the Countries vulnerable.
The Government are to blame, because there aren't enough one bedroom properties to move all that are effected into, so all they are doing is taxing the poor and no doubt this woman will not be the last person driven to this extreme by them.
When are people such as you going to wake up and realise that this isn't an attack on scroungers, but an attack on the poor and the ill, will you only consider it to be wrong if it unfortunately happens to you, or when one of your loved ones gets so desperate that you lose them to this terribly cruel and uncaring shift in our societies moral fibre?

RIP The Victims Of A Cruel Tax, Don't Feel Alone, There Will Be Many More...

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

Suicide of Bedroom Tax victim Stephanie Bottrill: Grandmother blames government in tragic note - Mirror Online one that we know about,picking on the vulnerable is a tory trait.look at care in the community in the eighties.

Its always terrible when someone commits suicide buts it's also terribly selfish. How must that wagon driver feel knowing he has killed someone?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by accyman

thing is sugarmouse there arnt enough 1 bedroom properties to go round so people have no option but to take or stay in 2 bedroom properties

if there was enough 1 bedroom properties to go around and someone refused to move then maybe fair enough but there isnt

Also if you saw my post about twin valley and their 1 bedroom property a friend of mine recently moved into because of this bedroom tax would you think it fair you give up a clean 2 bedroom property that you have looked after and furnished to go live in a propperty that isnt fit to put a pig in because a lot of 1 bedroom properties are converted council houses in extreemly bad areas

Originally Posted by accyman

just another not on bedroom tax

the council will expect a person to leave a 2 bedroom property at say £90pw with a housing assossiation and happily pay £100pw upwards for a 1 bedroom property for that person.

bedroom tax actually costs the council money in the long run

Both very valid points that show its a very poorly thought out idea. I am not saying it is completely wrong, but it is far to rigid with no allowances made for available properties in the area and cost of those properties.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Neil

Its always terrible when someone commits suicide buts it's also terribly selfish. How must that wagon driver feel knowing he has killed someone?

i agree and that waggon driver is also very lucky he wasnt killed.I know a few long distance drivers and one lad i know found himself inches away from death after a jumper went through his windscreen

[Gremlin]

A mate of mine was a fireman on the steam trains, he was approaching Haltwhistle and saw a young couple leaning on the crossing gate, just as the train neared the crossing the couple walked out and stood on the line with their arms around each other.
Two 20 year old people were instantly wiped out.
My mate never went on the railway again, he finished up labouring around the engine sheds. Many years later and he is still on medication for it.