Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Ok, here is a very partial list of Labour achievements over the past thirteen years...

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
The state can kill people and get away with it
You can be put in prison indefinitely on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.

just sussed out Acrylic-bob .he's the bloke that holds human rights at heart.. the phantom flan flinger bloke from another thread

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by g jones

No I haven't!

The easy answer was nothing because we can't afford. I answered the question as if it were a wish list to give a truer answer of the things I believe in or a sense of direction anyway.

Council Housing for example is something we may be able to do (locally). However there are significant financial, legislative and managerial problems that are hurdles that may make them unfeasible to build.

Hopes and reality.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone.
I meant by this that parents would have a better opportunity to find work.

Isn't that just how things used to be? We had council run nurseries before they were dismantled and turned into slappers centres by the powers that be. There was also a time when council housing was provided for proper families - or is it deemed politically uncorrect to use such a term in these so called 'enlightened' times?

I think I understand where you are coming from, and maybe there is something to be said for turning the clock back. Maybe we could reintroduce the 'Baltic Fleet' and the 'Accrington Corporation Bus Service'! Those were indeed the glory days.

[g jones]

I don't wish to turn the clock back rather find the best answer.

Buses could be kept privatised and routes franchised by Borough Councils saving money!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by g jones

Buses could be kept privatised and routes franchised by Borough Councils saving money.

Why keep them private?

Are you saying the Local Councils can't run them on a not for profit basis for less than the private companies?

Surely this would give us a better service and possibly lower fares?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

So you think Graham Jones is the best person to be our MP.
Would you still vote for him if he switched to the BNP?

So now tell me if it is the person, the party or both that are important?

I suppose most of us weigh up the attributes of the person, and the policies of the parties they represent, but if you think about it, we actually vote for the person, not the party.

Many times elected people have changed party mid-office, and there isn't a by-election...even though there should be, in my opinion.

[g jones]

Mmm. I think you could be right. Again there are hurdles. Labour flogged off the depot on the cheap. There's scale and business development issues. Capital costs upfrnt for livery and site. And nowadays with consolidated large bus companies, economies of scale.

Franchising is half way house. We sell the popular routes through bids. We use the surplus to fund loss making routes.

We franchise in a complex way looking into escalating returns and uplifts and charge out per passenger using the bus station like we used too before mmmmmmmmmmmmmm wHen we shouldn't have.

[g jones]

OnTopic

I think Gordon has done well in terms of stopping a monumental financial meltdown. Not only here but importantly elsewhere.

It's not pretty, it's painful to some, but were muddling through when apocalyptic predictions and sandwich board Tories thought we wouldn't. At a price of course.

I don believe anyone could have done better in the white heat of it all. No one has any better ideas and no one has been as steadfastly confident about the right course of action.

I'm not a natural brownite but credit where due.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by g jones

OnTopic

I think Gordon has done well in terms of stopping a monumental financial meltdown. Not only here but importantly elsewhere.

It's not pretty, it's painful to some, but were muddling through when apocalyptic predictions and sandwich board Tories thought we wouldn't. At a price of course.

I don believe anyone could have done better in the white heat of it all. No one has any better ideas and no one has been as steadfastly confident about the right course of action.

I'm not a natural brownite but credit where due.

This government has been bashed from pillar to post by the tory press .. yes the tory press..and those who try to make out that that the western world economic breakdown was conjured up by the Brown are old tories that can't stand any thought of a Labour Government...same old tories that lead us into the EU..and the same tories that we had to endure for 18yrs

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Neil

So you think Graham Jones is the best person to be our MP.
Would you still vote for him if he switched to the BNP?



So now tell me if it is the person, the party or both that are important?

.

It's an interesting hypothetical scenario but I doubt that his policies would remain EXACTLY the same if he switched to BNP. I understand that the party is putting up a candidate somewhere in the borough for local elections and he or she may well end up being voted in. If the majority decide that they are the right person for the job yet that decision is derided then what is the point of democratic elections?

I stress my original point, voters should choose to elect the person they feel will do the best job. If someone unswerving believes that a BNP candidate has their best interests at heart then why should they feel bad about voting that way?

It is inevitable that there will be people who can be persuaded to vote for the best person and those who will simply vote the way they always have done regardless of the candidate. I am about to find this out first-hand.

Ruling someone out because they happen to be either Tory or Labour is definitely not the best way to vote and a misguidedly-loyal way of giving bad councillors a fighting chance to spend our taxes.

When the time comes, take a good look at the people on that voting list. Do you even know who they are? Have they ever really got involved with the local community? What has the party they represent done or at least tried to do for the town?

Coming out of the woodwork at election time to proudly display the badge and then disappearing for three years is not my idea of a good councillor.

[accyman]

i like election time but only because it means holes get filled in the roads as election day nears

it may just be coincidence , it wont effect my vote what so ever but at least for a few months until the quick botch job yet again becomes an expensive car repair waiting to happen i dont have to worry about my front wheels getting smashed off my car

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I stress my original point, voters should choose to elect the person they feel will do the best job. If someone unswerving believes that a BNP candidate has their best interests at heart then why should they feel bad about voting that way?

they should feel bad about being completly stupid more like.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by cashman

they should feel bad about being completly stupid more like.

It certainly wouldn't sit well with a lot of people but voting Labour is viewed as completely stupid by Conservative zealots (and vice versa) so it basically comes down to a matter of perspective.

However, if someone passionately believes in something I do think they are entitled to their view in a democratic vote, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Electoral candidates should try and sway those views with reasoned arguments and solid promises rather than adopting a 'my badge is better than theirs' approach.

[cashman]

perspective is differant when ya have long established parties whom both sets supporters think are best, as opposed to a bunch of thugs.

[Less]

Originally Posted by cashman

as opposed to a bunch of thugs.

Now, now Cashy I know you and Jaysay don't see eye to eye over politics, but name calling won't help.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by cashman

perspective is differant when ya have long established parties whom both sets supporters think are best, as opposed to a bunch of thugs.

Again, many people will agree with you but your perspective leads you to believe that, whereas I suspect plenty of BNP supporters will view the main parties as being bureaucratic toffs who are prepared to let immigration run wild.

Also, just stop and think how much the casual observer actually knows about the BNP beyond what has been portrayed in the news. Jumping on the bandwagon to reinforce public perception is an old media trick.