funny how democracey works for some and not others

[Eric]

Originally Posted by susie123

Why don't we have a referendum about whether to have a referendum?

Fantastic idea One could call it, say, a General Election

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Eric

Fantastic idea One could call it, say, a General Election

Europe, and our relation to it, will be very central to the next Genaral Election.

I think public opinion might eventually be getting through some thick, political skulls.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by garinda

Europe, and our relation to it, will be very central to the next Genaral Election.

I think public opinion might eventually be getting through some thick, political skulls.

Yup ... it just might. What could happen is that when the General Election approaches, and the major parties put forward their platforms, the grass roots party members and the public in general should tell them to stuff their official platforms where the sun don't shine Platforms are bs anyway ... aren't most voters aware of what parties stand for? I mean, we all know that the tories probably won't consider expanding and strengthening the NHS, and that Labour won't bring back foxhunting and gay bashing. And isn't the general party stance enough to know? Who needs the details? Just let them know that a referendum on membership in the EU is the major issue, the only issue ... screw the rest of the platform.

[Margaret Pilkington]

It is all very well saying that Eric, but they say one thing and do something different once in power........I don't trust any of them as far as I can spit.
They can promise us a referendum and then not do anything about what the results are.
according to one press report 8 out of 10 of the electorate want a say in the membership of the EU.......and what good is a costly referendum if the results are not legally binding(which David Cameron says they won't be)?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

It is all very well saying that Eric, but they say one thing and do something different once in power........I don't trust any of them as far as I can spit.
They can promise us a referendum and then not do anything about what the results are.
according to one press report 8 out of 10 of the electorate want a say in the membership of the EU.......and what good is a costly referendum if the results are not legally binding(which David Cameron says they won't be)?

What good is it? About as much use as teats on a bull. But, one should still try. If there's enough angry noise they just might get the message. Oh, and don't hold your breath

[Margaret Pilkington]

I'm sure you are right and I guess that is why some of us on here keep plugging it(some would say 'banging on').
It is hoped that the main political parties realise that this issue is truly their Achilles heel, and set about doing something to ensure they are electable when the time comes.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

Fantastic idea One could call it, say, a General Election

Don't be silly Eric they'd change the goal posts

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Don't be silly Eric they'd change the goal posts

Negativity will get us nowhere.

Other than deeper into the mire.

Technically a referendum's result might not be legally binding.

Though historically I can't think of any that haven't forced governments to act on their results.

Can you, because I don't think there's been any?

First we must all fight that we are allowed one, because the European Union has changed in all recognition from the body we voted via a referendum to join, which was called the Common Market.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Negativity will get us nowhere.

Other than deeper into the mire.

Technically a referendum's result might not be legally binding.

Though historically I can't think of any that haven't forced governments to act on their results.

Can you, because I don't think there's been any?

First we must all fight that we are allowed one, because the European Union has changed in all recognition from the body we voted via a referendum to join, which was called the Common Market.

Ya the only time there's been any sort of referendum was back in 75 when Wilson asked should we stay in or come out, but it was a totally different ball game then, not the federal states of Europe like people would have it

[gynn]

Originally Posted by garinda

Technically a referendum's result might not be legally binding.

Though historically I can't think of any that haven't forced governments to act on their results.

Can you, because I don't think there's been any?

Republic of Ireland

Public voted to reject the new EU Constitution. Government reaction was to launch a publicity campaign and hold a second referendum. Result? Acceptance.

And how many of the thousands of agreements/statutes/concordats signed by the British government in Brussels on which millions of people have based life determining decisions (where to live, where to work,etc etc etc) are also legally binding?

A simple YES/NO vote on the UK membership would be an exercise in naivety. We are in. Get used to it!

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Republic of Ireland

Public voted to reject the new EU Constitution. Government reaction was to launch a publicity campaign and hold a second referendum. Result? Acceptance.

And how many of the thousands of agreements/statutes/concordats signed by the British government in Brussels on which millions of people have based life determining decisions (where to live, where to work,etc etc etc) are also legally binding?

A simple YES/NO vote on the UK membership would be an exercise in naivety. We are in. Get used to it!

Er....I'm not Irish.

I can't think of any referendum's results that haven't been acted upon by a British government.

You've already stated you're happy with the current status quo, regarding our membership of the E.U.

I'll 'get used to it' when the majority of the British people have ratified it, via a referendum.

As for the 'naivety' of a question with a yes/no voting option.

Even you seemed to manage quite well, when you voted in similarly simplistic yes/no referendums about Europe, in the seventies.

This isn't going away.

Even you should be able to see this, as a pro-European Unionist, who doesn't want a fair, and democratic referendum.

There's a growing demand for the right to have our views counted.

Get used to it.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Republic of Ireland

Public voted to reject the new EU Constitution. Government reaction was to launch a publicity campaign and hold a second referendum. Result? Acceptance.

And how many of the thousands of agreements/statutes/concordats signed by the British government in Brussels on which millions of people have based life determining decisions (where to live, where to work,etc etc etc) are also legally binding?

A simple YES/NO vote on the UK membership would be an exercise in naivety. We are in. Get used to it!

It's almost as if you fear a referendum.

Why?

If it's so womderful, you've nothing to fear.

The majority will vote we retain E.U. membership.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Why should we get used to it when we were taken into the EU under false pretences(a trading partnership was how it was sold)...hoodwinked, bamboozled.
Maybe you actually like having the rules made by Brussels. Maybe you think that it is fine to belong to a corrupt money hungry organisation that cannot balance its books(no signed off Audit in 16 years). Maybe you really want to be ruled by Germany(who seem to have the whip hand in everything)
As for the regulations, agreements, statutes, concordats......are you saying that these are set in stone?
It is time we took back our sovereignty......as for those who came tolive/work over here during the time when the EU said they could freely move between countries of the EU...let them choose, they can stay or they can go...But if the vote was for us to come out of the EU and the bigger 'if' - if it was acted on, then there would be no more free movement....maybe we could get some British people their jobs back.

Just because something isn't easy doesn't mean that it should not be attempted.
Gynn, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
We are never ever going to agree on this one.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by gynn

Republic of Ireland

Public voted to reject the new EU Constitution. Government reaction was to launch a publicity campaign and hold a second referendum. Result? Acceptance.

And how many of the thousands of agreements/statutes/concordats signed by the British government in Brussels on which millions of people have based life determining decisions (where to live, where to work,etc etc etc) are also legally binding?

A simple YES/NO vote on the UK membership would be an exercise in naivety. We are in. Get used to it!

Get used to it, if you have tooth ache you don't get used to it ya get it sorted out and removed if need be, why get used to it when you can, with some effort get rid of it

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Why should we get used to it when we were taken into the EU under false pretences(a trading partnership was how it was sold)...hoodwinked, bamboozled.
Maybe you actually like having the rules made by Brussels. Maybe you think that it is fine to belong to a corrupt money hungry organisation that cannot balance its books(no signed off Audit in 16 years). Maybe you really want to be ruled by Germany(who seem to have the whip hand in everything)
As for the regulations, agreements, statutes, concordats......are you saying that these are set in stone?
It is time we took back our sovereignty......as for those who came tolive/work over here during the time when the EU said they could freely move between countries of the EU...let them choose, they can stay or they can go...But if the vote was for us to come out of the EU and the bigger 'if' - if it was acted on, then there would be no more free movement....maybe we could get some British people their jobs back.

Just because something isn't easy doesn't mean that it should not be attempted.
Gynn, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
We are never ever going to agree on this one.

There were probably similar doom merchants in 1939.

'The Germans have invaded Poland.'

'It'll be difficult to change this now.'

'Get used to it!'




Rubbish.

If something's wrong in principle, it should be addressed.