How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?

[garinda]

'The revolt was led by Frank Field, the former Welfare Reform minister, and Greg Pope, a former Labour whip.'
Labour fends off fresh rebellion over 10p tax - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

He was publicly prepared to rebel, citing it would harm a many of his constituents, over the moves to abolish the 10p rate of income tax.

[yerself]

Originally Posted by garinda

He was publicly prepared to rebel, citing it would harm a many of his constituents, over the moves to abolish the 10p rate of income tax.

I beg to differ. Pope only rebelled because he had already made the decision not to stand for election in 2010.
What's the odds Jonesy will fail to represent the people who voted him in and yield to Mr. Ed's whip?

[Wynonie Harris]

Graham has certainly gone down in my estimation. but would Greg Pope have done any differently? Back in the day, when the Labour government promised us a referendum on the European Constitution, they slid out of it by claiming that the Lisbon Treaty which replaced it was radically different so the referendum wasn't necessary. In fact, it was a very similar document with a new name and a few rearranged words. I distinctly recall Greg Pope coming on here and insulting our intelligence by toeing the party line.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by yerself

I beg to differ. Pope only rebelled because he had already made the decision not to stand for election in 2010.
What's the odds Jonesy will fail to represent the people who voted him in and yield to Mr. Ed's whip?

Admittedly it was a bit of a Jack Straw, but at least he did it.

Perhaps if Graham announces he's not standing at the next General Election, we'll see him favour the people who elected him, rather than his political masters.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Graham has certainly gone down in my estimation. but would Greg Pope have done any differently? Back in the day, when the Labour government promised us a referendum on the European Constitution, they slid out of it by claiming that the Lisbon Treaty which replaced it was radically different so the referendum wasn't necessary. In fact, it was a very similar document with a new name and a few rearranged words. I distinctly recall Greg Pope coming on here and insulting our intelligence by toeing the party line.

You're right.

It needs a certain type of person nowadays, to be a sucessful politican.

Not a life for me.

I couldn't lick arse, and be made to do things I didn't believe to be right.

No matter how much they paid me.

[phil8715]

I would vote to get out of the EU. My reasons:
we pay £43m per day to the European Union and get the almost nothing out.

Why should the European Union make up our laws?

We have no physical connection to Europe except the Eurostar to places such as Paris and Brussels.

Another bugbear is we're not even allowed to fish in our own waters but the Spanish can. I would repeal the fishing quota laws so we can fish in our own waters.

Also immigration: if a EU citzen commits a crime in our country, they will extradited back to their country and they would serve their sentence in their country at their expense. I would stop economic migrants coming into to our country just to take advantage of our welfare system. They must have employment before they would be granted a visa.

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[Eric]

Originally Posted by phil8715

I would vote to get out of the EU. My reasons:
we pay £43m per day to the European Union and get the almost nothing out.

Why should the European Union make up our laws?

We have no physical connection to Europe except the Eurostar to places such as Paris and Brussels.

Another bugbear is we're not even allowed to fish in our own waters but the Spanish can. I would repeal the fishing quota laws so we can fish in our own waters.

Also immigration: if a EU citzen commits a crime in our country, they will extradited back to their country and they would serve their sentence in their country at their expense. I would stop economic migrants coming into to our country just to take advantage of our welfare system. They must have employment before they would be granted a visa.

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The more I read about what is happening to the UK because of the EU, the more I find it difficult to understand how your governments over the years allowed the country to slide into it That fishing thing sounds like BS ... I guess Fleetwood is no longer a major fishing port. The Spanish try to fish in Canadian waters too; the Navy, or the Coastgaurd and the RCMP arrest them, confiscate their vessel, and fine them. And this stuff with the immigrants coming over for no reason other than to take advantage of welfare .....

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Eric

The more I read about what is happening to the UK because of the EU, the more I find it difficult to understand how your governments over the years allowed the country to slide into it That fishing thing sounds like BS ... I guess Fleetwood is no longer a major fishing port. The Spanish try to fish in Canadian waters too; the Navy, or the Coastgaurd and the RCMP arrest them, confiscate their vessel, and fine them. And this stuff with the immigrants coming over for no reason other than to take advantage of welfare .....

Plus, imagine to the shame, if you were subject to laws issued..from Washington D.C..

...and yes, Fleetwood is no longer the great fishing port.

They make only make mints now.

For other nation's fishermen to suck.

Whilst plundering our seas.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Plus, imagine to the shame, if you were subject to laws issued..from Washington D.C..

...and yes, Fleetwood is no longer the great fishing port.

They make only make mints now.

For other nation's fishermen to suck.

Whilst plundering our seas.

Ya can always get a nice piece of fish in Spain

[gynn]

The question that I still can't get my head round is - "What does "withdrawing from the European Union" means exactly?"

Listening to some of the debate, it seems that all we have to do is give a months notice to Brussels, thanking them for working with us for the last 40 years, but expressing the view that we feel the way ahead is for us to go it alone. A bit like a resignation letter to your employer.

But hold on a minute. What compensation clauses would be triggered? What do we do with the millions of European immigrants, some now second and third generation, who have settled in the UK? How do we deal with the millions of UK expats who settled abroad, and who will presumably have to be repatriated. Do we claim back the money we've paid to Brussels? Do we tear up the contracts that commit us to future payments, future obligations? etc etc etc

These are just the start of the list of questions that our withdrawal would raise. I don't know the answers, and neither I suspect do the people calling for our withdrawal.

But they are questions that will have to be answered so that the great British public goes into any referendum with complete knowledge of all the facts.

[garinda]

Debates are now rendered pointless, because the public have had their opinions discounted, because of last night's vote in parliament.

[gynn]

Originally Posted by garinda

Debates are now rendered pointless, because the public have had their opinions discounted, because of last night's vote in parliament.

Cameron can't ignore the scale of the Tory revolt last night. In that sense the public opinion has been expressed, even if it hasn't yet resulted in a referendum.

A bandwagon is now rolling that will swamp anyone who thinks the current EU arrangements can be solved by tinkering round the edges. Either we get out or we make sure fundamental changes are made.

The public voice will be heard!

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by gynn

The question that I still can't get my head round is - "What does "withdrawing from the European Union" means exactly?"

Listening to some of the debate, it seems that all we have to do is give a months notice to Brussels, thanking them for working with us for the last 40 years, but expressing the view that we feel the way ahead is for us to go it alone. A bit like a resignation letter to your employer.

But hold on a minute. What compensation clauses would be triggered? What do we do with the millions of European immigrants, some now second and third generation, who have settled in the UK? How do we deal with the millions of UK expats who settled abroad, and who will presumably have to be repatriated. Do we claim back the money we've paid to Brussels? Do we tear up the contracts that commit us to future payments, future obligations? etc etc etc

These are just the start of the list of questions that our withdrawal would raise. I don't know the answers, and neither I suspect do the people calling for our withdrawal.

But they are questions that will have to be answered so that the great British public goes into any referendum with complete knowledge of all the facts.

Exactly! These and many more questions and issues could have been thoroughly discussed in the run-up to any referendum (which, as the MP who proposed the referendum has said, would probably have taken us through to 2013).

However, this won't happen now, because the majority of MPs don't want us to have a say.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Cameron can't ignore the scale of the Tory revolt last night. In that sense the public opinion has been expressed, even if it hasn't yet resulted in a referendum.

A bandwagon is now rolling that will swamp anyone who thinks the current EU arrangements can be solved by tinkering round the edges. Either we get out or we make sure fundamental changes are made.

The public voice will be heard!

I agree.

Though most political pundits are saying the probabilty is this can't now happen before 2015.

Over three more years, in which the British people are denied a voice.

[phil8715]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Ya can always get a nice piece of fish in Spain

Which was probably caught in UK waters!



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