Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Never seen any drunks using it and it depends what you term weirdos:( But to be honest I don't spend my time judging people:)

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

We really should have sat on the stools, rather than the floor, when we used to meet in there.

Perhaps we should have put the gin bottles we were drinking from in paper bags, so visiting students wouldn't have us down as two lushes.

:rolleyes:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

So, is Russ's caff still there?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Yep Russ is still there....back in his usual position now!


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Cheers, mate, wouldn't want to miss my Sat lunchtime brew! :)

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Mi dad said they had uncovered the flag floors, zoomed in they look really good, it was worth it just for that, but it looks good to me, wonder what the ghosts taders of years gone bye would have thought, old Len, etc.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Yeah the Original Flagged floor does look better i'll admit!


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I went in today and thought it looked a bit characterless and badly planned. Why are there several cafes next to each other? It looks like the market isn't getting enough business to justify the refurbishment.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Pretty good summary to me is that,;)

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Went in to day and can't say they have improved the place one bit, open spaces where stalls used to be, probably very few traders can afford the rent.
Noticed in one empty space some clown has put a display up about the Accrington Pals, there are more mistakes in it than there are flags on the market floor, people will start to believe that tripe because it was on display in the market hall so it must be true.
One in particular Basil Arthur Horsfall, Basil was actualy killed whilst obeying orders to withdraw, him and a sergeant were the last two to leave the position, and were dashing across open ground, when a shell landed, when the sergeant picked himself up Horsfall had disappeared, not died 10 hours later, and his VC is in a safe in Fulwood Museum, not in Blackburn Museum.
Some how they've put up some of my work amongst it without asking me, they've also put up a timeline for WW1 which I used in 2006 when they had the anniversary at the Howarth Art Gallery, again without asking.
Enquired at the library and they don't know any thing about it.

Retlaw.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

So just out of curiosity, are the mistakes in there ones that you put in as deliberate mistakes so that you would recognise your own work?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Does that really matter?:confused:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Still having a go, are we. No the deliberate mistake was in a picture on display in Accrington Library.
The mistakes I'm refering to in the Market Hall has been done by some clown who think they are a Pals expert, and got several dates, times, and facts wrong.
If you read the original post you will see that neither the Library or I was aware of the display.
Retlaw.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Perhaps it was your nemesis, The Harrogate Tripe Dresser, Walter. Hope you plan to lodge a complaint regarding the errors, not to mention the lack of attribution.

They were still working on the Market Hall renovations when I visited in March.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Not having a go at all, just asking if you knew where the mistakes might have come from.

The problem with all things like this is that someone in the council will have been asked to provide a display. And, without your decades of experience they'll have got the information out of books and from the internet and no doubt made mistakes - then the next time anything is needed along these lines someone else will copy it and add to it and make more mistakes.

Now, if only there was an expert who was willing to help out and correct their mistakes!!!!

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Gayle, maybe they should have asked Retlaw to help them out.

I too, think that, while the intentions to make the Market Hall better, were there......I think it has failed, and like Blazey, I think it looks lost and characterless......just my opinion.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

No it weren't him, he has nowt about Horsfall on his site.
Whats the point last time I pointed the errors on Oswaldtwistle's new memorial plaque,
britcliffe spouted off in the Observer, that if Mr Holmes would supply us with a list, he would have it checked. Who the hell is going to check it, who has the resorces or the knowledge to check it, does he really think they would admit to having made mistakes.
Pigs may fly some day, but not just yet.

Retlaw.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I will admit that I felt more inclined to use the café in the market now... well one of them... but maybe this was because I needed to make a phone call and didn't want the wind and traffic in the background.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

A pig finally flew for the first time in May 1909 as Lord Brabazon took a pig as a passenger on his Voisin biplane. The pig was seated on a wicker basket with sign saying "I am the first pig to fly".

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Few more up to date Market Hall photos - Wednesday - half day closing so empty of people.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I think the new look market looks great, all they need now is some decent stalls in there..............

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I heard they were trying to get the traders to open 6 days a week. I guess from the photos it didn't work

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Well was in on Saturday and it was about as appealing as having a tooth pulled without them numbing it first. The feel was all wrong almost like walking into a half built shopping mall. It was empty of people and there was no atmosphere. It was like walking into a bad dream. They made the mistake of getting rid of the old market thinking something new would be better and are trying it here and there is a good chance it is going to fail as well.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

agree with spugs, its half empty, no atmosphere, ok the work done aint bad, but its very poorly planned.can just see loads of folk trolling up those lovely stairs especially the elderly n disabled, loaded wi shopping, feel sorry fer the traders up yon, cos the small lift is impractical.:rolleyes:

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Err..not having been there for a while now, I'm a little confused. Is the fitting out finished or not? Are workmen still in there constructing market stalls?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Its a bit like Stanley T, nobody really knows.:D

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

What? O'Neil is in charge of the Market Hall redevelopment?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Dunno, but sure looks like it.:rolleyes:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

We will know for certain when we get an official announcement that everything will be completed in a '..matter of days'.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Just been in the Market Hall. I have to say it is definitely "growing on me", BUT ...... what loud music I walked into! Someone, in their wisdom, has put a gentleman playing an electric piano/organ, in the centre of the empty floor, but its so loud, and so old fashioned sounding! No disrespect to him or his playing, but the centre of the Market Hall is NOT the place for him. All it needs is some piped, pleasant background music. The stallholders can't hear what the customers are asking for!

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I think you're right Atarah.I'm all for live music, and it was worth trying as an experiment. But it just doesn't work in the market hall in my opinion.

There's to many empty spaces,and I know its not easy, but we do need more stalls.

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I think that Spuggie has hit the nail on the head. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Good job they didnt put a bag pipe player in there then.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I must confess to being a little puzzled by this remark. Surely the last thing we now want in Accy's market hall - which is one of the three jewels in the town's crown - is some pathethic musak played over some squeaky set of electronic speakers.

This place is not the ASDA or some other similar shopping hell for the mentally subnormal as they go in search of cans of spam, bacon fry or similar reconstituted meat slurry; it is a place of contemplation followed by economic activity, i.e. a market hall.

Surely the music played should therfore match it's history and as such something like a string quartet knocking out Elgar's, Mendelssohn's and Vaughn William's greatest hits would be far more appropriate?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

i was in there yet again this afternoon, yeah it looks ok but it also looks like no one can afford to rent stalls, there's so much empty space it looks like people have just abandoned it, the best thing in there is Slacks butchers

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I went in again yesterday and it felt even less like a market place. I don't like it.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I think it looks great! How many other local councils are currently investing in their dated market halls? Not many I'd guess. I'd certainly shop there rather than go into Burnley which is nearer.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

It was funded by central government from general taxation. The Council did not fund the renovation. The Council's first option was to sell the market off which drew must interest but no bidders because the accounts were a (profitable) mess.

My view was then and is now that the private sector be brought in with markets expertise. When the two year sell off failed that became the Council's preferred option.

At that stage opposition Councillors were removed from the project and the detail of the refurbishment and the business was totally in the hands of two people. Councillors Haworth and Britcliffe.

Whilst the private sector avenue was the best option, the way the Council has handled it is poor. Bully boy tactics on traders, lack of consultation, new imposed contracts that have left many stalls empty, food establishments in the wrong place.

It is currently losing around £150,000 - £200,000 pa less than it should be making. It is probably making around £50,000-£100,000 profit (though the accounts are still a mess). The failure to maximise income in the market will cost the Council tax 4% of Council Tax revenue which will have to paid for by Council Tax payers. It is affecting everyone.

If the markets problems (with traders / contracts / opening hours / food concessions) it could turn into a major problem quickly.

Little thought has been given to the money and ideas the Council have been given.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Graham I am no expert but based on what you have put the market and market hall will be lucky to survive another 3 years.

It also comes across that Mssrs Howarth and Britcliffe didnt want it in the hands of a private expert/experts as then they would have control. Because of what I would class as incompetence arrogance and glory hunting the town could end up with a white elephant.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Went in there for the first time since refurbishment yesterday...couldn't believe what they've done to it. The market hall was one of the jewels in Accrington's crown. It was the envy of other surrounding towns who demolished theirs in the 60's modernisation mania. Once it was thriving, bustling and full of atmosphere. Now it's sterile, empty and lifeless. First they ruined the outside market, now they've ruined the market hall. What a complete and utter disgrace. :( :mad:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Bloody difficult typing on a mobile!

It's not a disaster as yet but the councillors running the council are unable to make business decisions and a lot of money has been wasted.

I believe the market hall can be saved going along the lines that one or two have suggested.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Went in yesterday.

It just seems very empty, and souless, and bereft of many of the stalls that used to be there.

The original flagged floor looks great. It's just that I'd like to see less of it, because thriving businesses were trading on it.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

As far as I know all the stalls and shops upstairs will be full by Sept.

I went in to talk to the market hall boss because I need somewhere to place a couple of artists for a project. I was told I couldn't be guaranteed a stall/shop because they all, bar one, had been booked or was under discussion.

As for the music - the idea is to create a lively space. I was in Covent Garden the other week and sat in a bar having a drink when a band struck up close by. I'm not saying that Accrington Market is anything like Covent Garden and I do agree that the music needs to be appropriate, but it also needs to find its feet.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Is there a bar in there? If not there should be.It's the only way to shop.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Thing is gayle wi shopping centres @ many people, First Impressions count! sorry finding its feet could be a forlorn hope.:(

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

When I lived in London I much prefered Tooting market, rather than Covent Garden.

At one I could actually buy things I needed, on my way home from work, rather than have an Indian head massage, or not buy tourist tat.

The two stalls I regularly buy from in the Market Hall, who are still there, say trade has fallen.

By it's very definition a market is a public place where goods are offered for sale.

Services such as nail bars, and tarot reading, can't really be classed as fitting the dictionary definition of what a market is supposed to be.

That said, the floor does look great though.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Excellent idea! I spend many a happy Saturday afternoon at the bar in the Arndale Market in Manchester. Pick a few bits and pieces, then have a few beers while watching the world go by. Accy Market should get one right away. Definitely, the only way to shop! :Banane35:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I just wish they had found the original floor sooner then the people that tried to lay the paving stones round town would know how to do it property instead of all the loose stones there are now.
The floor looks good and is sound and nothing loose.
I was talking to one of the stall holders he used to stand on the old outside market when i was on.
he said they are waiting for the rent rise and loosing a lot of trade
the music is far to loud and tends to echo round making it hard hearing anything

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

When it comes to what's done under the umberalla of 'improvements' in Accrington, I'm left in a state of fear.

Accrington can no longer be described as a town with a thriving market. As it was ten years ago.

The 'improved' outdoor market is a sad, pathetic, reflection of what it once was, before it was tampered with.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Lol, we say that every week.

So much for improvements.

The Victorians knew how to lay flags, and didn't have to risk life and limb, avoiding the appalling pavements Accrington has today.

The town has some of the worst pavements and walkways in the country.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I suppose a Champagne & Oyster bar would be out of the question...

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Corporation pop and winkle bar any good for you?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Tell you what, Mr T, you'd love the Micro Brewery Bar in Manc Market with its constantly changing selection of real ales and ciders. If they got summat like that in Accy Market, it might at least lift the atmosphere somewhat! ;)

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Hi, just been in Market Hall this morning. Been told by more than one stallholder that, from Oct 1st they HAVE to open six days a week! HAVE TO! They DONT WANT TO! Who can tell them WHEN they can or cant open their own stalls up?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I don`t like the like the new market very much,seems to me there are less stalls than usual, the guy selling ready cooked chickens,is welcome.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

And what will happen to them if they don't?
They should all get together and tell the powers that be, to see a Taxidermist on their own behalf! or in simple parlance, to get stuffed!

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Seems to me will that stupid directive, even more may up sticks n leave, ONLY in Accrington could this happen?:rolleyes:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Some of them are already thinking of it :(

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Revolution!

Just came on to post the same thing, and was told today, by five surviving long term traders, that if it is forced through, it won't cover their costs, so they'll just pack up and leave.

Apparently the person pushing for six day opening is the owner of the upstairs cafe, who happens to be the son of the Leader of the Council, one Peter Britcliffe.

:rolleyes:

If he wanted a cafe that opened six/seven days a week, perhaps he should have taken one of the many empty shops in the town centre. I'm sure he wouldn't have had any problem with planning permission.

:rolleyes:

By the way, do take time to enjoy the musicans that are now sited where there was once stalls. According to the Market Hall traders they are being funded by the public purse, via our taxes. So make sure you get your money's worth.

Perhaps we'll get them to play at the wake, when the last traditional Market Hall trader has left the building.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

am aware of that dave, thats why i made the comment.;)

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Quite savvy really.

I don't suppose an interest needs to be offically declared by a councillor, when it's your son who 'owns' a commercial concern, despite what's rumoured to be the truth.

:rolleyes:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

When do the residents of Hyndburn get the chamce to vote PB out of office?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

They don't.

That's down to me, and a few others, that live in his ward.

Or unless the balance of power changes, and his party don't have a workable majority, helped and aided by a monkey in Mayoral chains.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

When it comes to Hyndburn as a whole, he was twice rejected in General Elections.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Traders are not happy at all at being dictated to. They are only just managimg 4 - 5 days . no one is taking into acount that they run these buisness as sole traders. Even alot of the new traders on the new balcony are not willing to do 6 days

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

You cannot be serious!!
Thats awful! This needs taking up, officially!
Graham! Where are you!!!!

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

If you mean the person who is leading the campaign for the Market Hall traders being forced to open six days a week, that person being the son of our Council Leader, Cllr. Britcliffe, I'm afraid it is sadly true.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Are you sure, could he have spawned a son.
Any way I thought there were laws about a 5 day working week in this country, or is Britcliffe land a separate sovereign state.

Retlaw.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Was it his Son that was running the Cafe up Infant Street that PB owns?

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Apparently.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Be interesting to know how many bids were put in for that unit!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

If he is doing such a bad job why has he not been voted out of office before now??? It is all good and well that he is a good/great councillor for his ward and so are many within the borough (within their own wards). Seems to me that all our elected councillors are only interested in their own domains. Sorry but Hyndburn/ Accrington/ Rishton/ Great Harwood, should all be working together for the better of the voting public. Certain areas of the borough are being left to rot and it is wrong on all fronts.Would love to see a solution but whilst certain areas (and nobody looking around can say it is just ossy) are getting the majority of funding, what chance of the deprived areas got???
Time the lot of you reading this and elected to represent us pulled together but ain't holding my breath:(

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I hava a feeling this is PB's last term in Office!!;)

Best Regards - Taggy!

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I've lived in Manchester for 2 years now and never tried it finding it rather expensive compared to the Real Ale pubs that have(thankfully) started to pop up around town. Is it really worth it ?

I do believe Real Ale is the best way to keep the pub business alive - bottled ale just doesn't taste right, you can only get good ale in a pub.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

just an observation by an interested outsider , seems to me all monies spent on the refurbishments of the Market Hall, (which from earlier posts suggest it's now becoming a "performing arts space" and a retirement piggy bank) and the Ossy Civic theatre would have been better spent on refurbishing the Old Accy Con club as a centralized and bigger Arts/Theare center to serve the whole Borough and draw in folks from neighbouring Boroughs. Have I not read in previous posts that HBC have the powers to take control of abandoned terraced properties , do the same laws not apply to abandoned commercial properties under "eminant domain" laws.
But there again , having 2 performance arts sites means having 2 sets of "Arts" consultants/site managers/cleaners etc. all on feeding on the HBC/Govt. trough .... suppose it creates employment .
yep I'm a cynic :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

They have just spent £2m on refurbishments of the market hall and when i was in the other day there is a big notice on one of the stalls closed due to flooding due to rain water
I see they did a good job

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

May 2014. He was re voted back in May 2010

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I don't understand why something has to be in Accrington to be classed as for the whole Borough?

The Civic Theatre needed a lot of work doing to it and this appears to be a good way to do it. Without investment it would have become another crumbling public building for people to moan about the Council neglecting. It looks like HBC are damned if they do and damned if they dont by many on here.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

so if they HAVE to work 6 days when do they get to go to the cash n carry for their stock?

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

oh yeah...on their only day off, so that would be them working 7 days a week then

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Do you shop in the Market Hall?

I do, and therefore feel qualified to comment on the number of traders, both before and after, refurbishment.

The traders currently left have said they'll leave if forced to open six days per week, something that historically has never happened, in over a hundred years that the Market Hall has been successfully trading.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Is that your pet name for Cllr. Britcliffe?

Is it pronounced 'my Man-i'?

What does he call you?

:D

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Very rarely but did not comment about it.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

ha ha I have corrected my typo thanks for pointing it out :D

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Gone, but not forgotten.

;)

YouTube - Audra McDonald- My Man's Gone Now

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Don't be jealous I can still be your play thing as well :D:D:D

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Can't see a problem,Most shops open 6 days a week.some 7 days.

Pubs 7 days a week and for a lot longer time.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

We open 6 days a week ( and of course being a small business usually work 8 days a week 30 hours a day :) )


The difference is we aren't forced to, it's our choice

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Choice.

For over a hundred years the Market Hall has traded sucessfully with it's current opening hours.

If forced to open six days per week, at least five businesses I spoke to yesterday said that takings wouldn't cover their rent/staffing costs, so they will just pack up and leave.

Seems a little odd, that there'll be a refurbished Market Hall, with no market traders in.

As stated, if Cllr. Britcliffe's son, the cafe owner who is spearheading the move to force six day trading, wanted to open six/seven days per week, there are plenty of empty town centre retail properties where he could have done this, without forcing others to do like wise.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Thats the whole point of having yer own business! YOU decide yer business hours.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I agree with you entirely as I do with Gary when he advocates people rent their own properties and do as they please.;)

Maybe all the stall holders should get together and take a democratic vote.:alright:

We all have choices but when you work for yourself probably less than others.:(:D:D

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

From what I've seen of our new Market Hall, it was money not well spent. It looks deserted and seemingly, re-built just to house a new cafe...They can't force businesses to open when they don't want. Mr Britcliffe didn't necessarily work every day so why try and force others too?. By leaving no choice is reducing the rights of the individual / business. Something I am opposed to massively.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

I'm going to visit the market hall tomorrow because I want to hear from the stall holders exactly what they think. How can it possibly be in their interests to open six days a week? Comply with our rules or ship out? Well, at least the £1m monument will take longer to decay now it's been refurbished.

Cllr Peter Britcliffe, a man who really understands people.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Ken, ask them how much their rent has gone up too

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Will do, Shaz.

From what I can gather, although the market hall has had a rather nice facelift it has come at a cost to the people who actually make it tick and it sounds like they could do with a louder voice in the Council chamber which is why I want to go and speak to them.

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

good lad, it's going to be a similar situation with Blackburn when their market moves into the Mall, there will be hardly anything in there because of the rent increase

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

Yep, smaller traders whose stalls have been in the Market for years cannot afford to move into the mall. So the likes of the Cheese stall and the Sarsaparilla Beer stall will now vanish! Moves like this destroy individuality and the small traders that Markets are the whole point of! I'm fed up going to different towns just to see exactly the same outlets in each one!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

my dads cousin works on the Sarsaparilla stall, has done for years, i'll have to ask him what they are going to do

Re: Market Hall Refurbishment
 

There's been a younger chap on the stall the last couple of times i've been, not the older chap wi glasses who always used to be on there, with his old Mam!

Best Regards - Taggy