Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I'm suprised I wasn't sued, when I posted that the Tory candidate at the last General Election only learned how to get out of a sports car at her posh Lytham school, without showing her knickers.

:rolleyes:

'Why you nasty little Labour activist, I always show my knickers when getting out of a car!'

'I'll see you in court'.

:D

Happy days.

The like of which we'll never see again.

Sadly.

For Labour.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

He won the case?

You did post something which wasn't true on here, a public forum?

You live...and learn.

Swings, and roundabouts.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well the MP sent me a PM about repeating hearsay on this website, I think he did the same to another member too, but that's what he does, besides stabbing his constituents in the back that is, and kissing Mr Eds feet

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Luckily for some you can't be sued for saying one thing....and doing another.

There are no laws againsy hypocrisy.

Graham must be relieved.

For now.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Apparently so. I just found it interesting that all references to the point which triggered my 'factual mishap' were seemingly absent from council minutes after that.

It was a hugely defamatory statement...which failed to ignite much interest in the local press.

I made two public apologies, the Labour group paid up the money, smiles happy day.

Apologies once again for my error.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ah, attack being the best form of defence, you attempt to make me seem as simple as thee.

Allow me to assist, if you are conceited enough to think YOU, are, 'he that must not be mentioned', then you are wrong, your jump, your own wrong conclusion.

Read back to some advice in this thread from the one named in the title.

Now, allow me one last sentence, I thought you might be good for the Borough, you got voted in, now actually get on and do something and stop disappointing me.
.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Perhaps they just got lost.

In Kashmir.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I'm not as conceiting as you would seemingly love to think but if you see friendly advice not to repeat something potentially libellous as a veiled threat then you must be very easily offended. Carry on regardless, just don't say you haven't been warned if one day you repeat something which may not be true and someone somewhere decides to sue you.

Solicitors have endless patience.

And costs.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

For your own benefit, I daresay.

Take off the blue blinkers, John. They don't suit you anymore.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Here, you must be wearing your first one out with all the random holes you dig.
Draper 10878 Solid Forged Tee Handled Trenching Shovel With Ash Shaft Part No: TSWTH/H - Draper available at Shovel Shop

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Wouldn't do much digging with that thing.

It's a shovel.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I've just started humming The Good Ship Venus.

I can't think why.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Fit to shovel something?

Not fit?

Nah, it's gone again.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

OoooH! a veilded threat, (allegedly), (perhaps), (maybe).

Still liking you less than I used to, you still giving me reasons why I should like you even less than that.

Perhaps you are still overawed at being so close to the Queen, well bless, she has that effect on Royalists.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It's a trenching shovel, there are many different types, I would have thought a gardener would know that.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You still don't do any digging with it.

Spade = digging

Shovel = shifting

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Nothing to do with blinkers Ken, tossed them away a long time ago, but when the MP starts sending threatening PMs I'm going to shout it from the rooftops

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Advising people to beware of repeating potentially libellous hearsay is suddenly a threat?

God almighty, another spin doctor.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

shov·el (shhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ubreve.gifvhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gifl)n.

1. A tool with a handle and a broad scoop or blade for digging and moving material, such as dirt or snow.

http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticon...gif?1292867582

Be sure to send a postcard.

When you get to Australia.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I'll get there a lot quicker using a spade but if you'd prefer me to use a shovel I'll be around for quite a while....

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It's the caring side of Labour.

It's for your own good.

They know best.

Allegedly.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Amazing you talk it, you force it onto others but you don't know what to use to pick the stuff up!

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Who needs tools, with you around?

You're doing a fine enough job already...with your gob.

Keep up the good work.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Its a pity the flaming MP hasn't better things to do, what you seem to forget and you can pass this onto the egomaniac mate, that I don't give a toss about politics and especially local politics, I've a lot better things to do with my time than getting in a peeing match with a self important backstabber.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Hey, I agree with you:theband: And I understand what you mean;) Have to admit though, that I didn't see a veiled threat ... it appeared to me to be pretty much unveiled; although it was clothed in a lot of bs words ... you know, "politician speak".:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It's a pity I haven't spent more time learning about life from the web instead of relying on practical experience.

Think of how much better off I'd be if my entire life revolved around internet forums....

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I wonder how much more the site would benefit with the abscence of patronising politicians?

:(

Above is the first post from this thread, such a long time ago!

:confused:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Seem to think this internet forum was the be hole and end hole when you were running your anti Britcliffe campaign before you took control of the council, funny how you fell out with it, when all of a sudden you were the ones being asked the questions and you didn't like it

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Perhaps it's now the A hole?
:D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Could well be right Less:D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Your malapropisms never cease to crease me up. Karma sent. :D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It is my purpose in life to make the masses laugh, thank you sir, of course I did mean be all and end all, but I hadn't finished my first coffee of the day and I was still in the land of Narnia, but I did get my point over;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Coffee? You have coffee at your place? Right, I'll remember that next time I come round. Don't suppose you have chocolate chip cookies as well, do you? ;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

No cookies Wyn, I've got to watch my weight:D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Oh well, never mind. Mine's black, no sugar by the way. ;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Or indeed people who get themselves banned?

You had a few months without me and didn't care for that either, ducking the difficult questions and all that.

Can't live with me, can't live without me.

Aw, bless.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You didn't used to come across with such an overwhelming amount of your self import, but now you don't talk to people so much as talk down to them.

The above quote is an excellent example of you doing just that.

By the way I still think you duck the important questions, I also think you put this type of reply on in an attempt to put a smoke screen between you and answering those questions, but what do I know? I'm only one voter, not even in your ward, hardly worth bothering about.
;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I knew you could dig yourself a big hole with a shovel, pre-school.

Great places.

Sand pits.

Happily I always knew when it was the wise time to stop digging, when I was in my hole.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

How many times have I said that people can ask me questions at any time? I'm not sure how or where I've ducked anything but I'm heartily sick of people such as yourself who seem to regard knocking people's efforts as some sort of constructive sport.

Ask and you shall find.

Be sarky and you shall get what you deserve.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Oh we'd survive.

We used to.

Before some decided to use this forum for their own political ends.

Quite badly, in the majority of cases.

Start off ok.

Rather quickly look rather pathetic.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Er..this is a privately owned local forum.

Unconnected in any way to H.B.C.

People are free to discuss on here what they like, within the rules.

Anyone with any sense would go through the correct channels, if they required an answer from a local politican.

This place is for discussion.

Not necessarily answers to anything that might be being publicly debated.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Not a sport, just the disappointment of having one's belief in a person proved to be unworthwhile.

Not very often I personally would ask you a question but there have been many on here that have, do they seem pleased with the results? Surely they can't all be like me?

Your quite adept at the old sarcasm yourself, unfortunately it isn't a vote winner. I do wonder what we all deserve, jumping from a Tory frying pan into a Labour fire, wasn't my idea of how things would improve.
:(

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Then I'm genuinely sorry to have been a disappointment to you.

I've never been one to shy away from someone who takes a pop at me and I'll be the first to admit that I can be as sarcastic as the best of them but unfortunately it seems that stepping up to the political bar is in some way expected to remove all semblance of autonomous thought and turn people into 'all things to all men' so as not to offend anyone.

I'm afraid I don't fit that bill very well and will happy argue the toss with someone without worrying if it will cost me a vote or two. If I die by the sword because I speak about things how they really are then so be it, at least I will have served my time without watering my beliefs down to remain popular.

As far as the council itself is concerned, are you honestly serious about this administration being in any way comparable to the last one? We've not been perfect but I venture so far as to say that we've been a damn sight more transparent about things than our predecessors.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Less reposted the subject supposedly under discussion here.

Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

To which the reply was an overwhelming NO.

Can we keep other disappoinments regarding politicans, to the many other relevant threads please?

Thank you.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well said G - when have you known any politician actually answer the question posed to them?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Right, Ken, you may have answered this already, but if you did, I must have missed it. Do you think Graham Jones did the right thing in voting against holding a referendum on EU membership? If you think he did do the right thing, why?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

When they are out of office and seeking election:rolleyes: Of course, whether they answer truthfully or not is another question.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You sodding two faced hypocrite, I don't know how you have the cheek.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rol leyes::rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Think you've got that in one Eric

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I would never undermine Graham Jones and so the straight answer is yes.

I have my own opinions on the EU which I will expand on further but I have known Graham for just over three years and in that time he has demonstrated a grasp of politics which far exceeds my own. I have discussed the matter with him in the past and he has made several points which weakened my resolve on pulling out of Europe. We don't agree entirely on this issue but he is a man with a clear vision of the bigger picture and I trust him implicitly to make the best judgements in Parliament on my behalf as a resident of Hyndburn.

I must admit to remaining a Eurosceptic despite hearing several quite convincing arguments in favour. As it stands, we are being told that if Greece leaves the Euro it will damage Great Britain so I'm not entirely sure how much self-harm we would do if we pull out ourselves. If things stay on their current course it may transpire that the Eurozone starts to break up anyway but it doesn't sound like that would be great news in broader terms.

My own personal feeling is that this issue will never go away until we hold a referendum and get it over with. However, the problem with any referendum is a lack of public information and this is where they start being a little bit dangerous. The wording needs to be right and I will cite the Scottish referendum as an example of one where the SNP's preferred question may be seen by some to be leading the answer. The full facts and ramifications need to be presented to the public in such as way that they know exactly what they are voting for or against.

At the moment I suspect a sizeable number of people would vote to withdraw from Europe tomorrow based on what they either know or think they know from the media but that is a long way from having the full facts, it is merely an edited version of the truth.

I don't know enough about Europe to discuss it properly so until that changes I will leave decisions to those who do.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Surely rather than a straight answer not wishing to undermine him is out of loyalty to the man/party?

Can I reluctantly ask, if you don't know enough about Europe to decide, how could you and other Councillors, (allowing for their equal ignorance), put forward a majority vote backing Kashmir?

Like myself you probably know even less about their 'politics', than you do about Europe?


:o

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It was a question I asked before we went into the Council Chamber so that I had some idea of what the motion was about and why it needed amending. Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward is from a Kashmiri background and was able to give a balanced overview of the situation there.

I've said before that I would have preferred not to vote on it but we couldn't throw it out and I dislike abstaining.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Would it be possible for you to repeat (in simple terms) what it was that was so convincing about Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward's balanced overview of the situation there, that overwhelmed the Councillors to back Kashmir? After all, it did make our little area quite popular/unpopular with certain members of the press Worldwide.


Could I also ask, again, reluctantly, should our Council get involved with International Politics, when we can't keep our heads above water with local issues?
:o

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

View point 345 of the minutes to see what the ACTUAL wording of the vote was:

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa..._101111_1_.pdf

I would be quite happy never to vote on international issues at Full Council ever again, largely irrelevant.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Please, don't point me to link's, I asked you for simple terms that convinced YOU and other Councillors, not the official (amendment?). I myself am a simple soul, if it convinced you, why won't it convince me?

I know you and I haven't been eye to eye for a while, that can be rectified by honesty, not by hiding behind the Party/Council interpretation of what happened.

:o

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

The honest answer is that I can't remember, it was over six months ago now and was of very little interest to me even then since it had almost no relevance to my council work whatsoever. At the time I just wanted an overview of the situation because I was being asked to vote on something which I had no prior knowledge of. My overriding thought was to get a basic grasp of why I was voting in favour of the amendment as opposed to the original motion. I think the Labour amendment is less biased although I would still rather the Conservatives had not brought it to the table in the first place since it would only stir up emotions somewhere and not really solve anything.

Can we please drop this now? I feel as if I've said everything I have to say on this subject at least twice.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Oh dear me, yes, let's drop it, that is certainly an honest answer.
To vote in such a throw away fashion,

I make everyday decisions along similar lines, "does it affect Me?"

Answer, "no", well in that case, 'stuff it', follow the crowd. Let me get on with my life.

:o

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Graham Jones publicly said on here, in reference to a referendum on our European Union membership, that it would, quote, 'settle the matter democratically'.

Yet two short weeks later he voted for his puppet masters, rather than his constituents, and denied the people of Hyndburn the democratic right to have their views counted.

The overwhelming majority of people thought he was wrong to do so.

He's now also known to be someone capable of the grossest hypocrisy.

Only a fool, or someone similarly as keen to arse lick their way to the top of the putrid political pole, can see this very clearly.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Should that have read:-

:D

Is Jay giving private lessons? Where do I sign?

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Interesting.

Change of heart?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I dictated it correctly.

Jaysay typed it incorrectly.

He's not going to last long, on this work experience placement.

:D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Nah.

You have to have one.

In order to change it.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Jones put his party before the people of Hyndburn.

The vast majority of people thought he was wrong to do so.

As galling, was the sheer hypocrisy. After saying what he did on here, about a referendum settling the matter 'democratically'.

He's nearly up there with you.

When it comes to saying the wrong thing, and digging himself into a deeper hole.

At least Britcliffe knew his limitations.

Hence only two posts of his are on here.

From hero to zero.

Some can achieve that in only a few, foolish words.

Still, I suppose that's evidence of at least some talent.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Did they?

Is this based on the 46 votes cast in your poll?

Out of over 80,000 residents in Hyndburn?

Possibly not quantifiable as a representative cross-section of the borough's views, I fear.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I think, for me, what caused me the greatest concern was that Graham Jones felt that 95% of the electorate couldn't give a toss about the EU....now what I would like to know is, where did he get that figure from? Had he done a straw poll...or did he just pluck the figure from thin air.
While the vote on here may not be representative of how the borough as a whole would vote(it is, after all, only a straw poll) we aren't ever going to find out how many people care about whether we are in or out of the EU, unless someone gives us a say in the matter.
As far as I am concerned Graham showed an amazing lack of concern with the people who voted for him......and more than a little hypocrisy and a self serving attitude.

It really does make voting less and less attractive, when those who are elected do not live up to our first initial impressions and hope. Maybe that is our fault for believing that voting changes anything.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It's certainly unquestionable evidence, as to what the vast majority of people on here thought, of his actions.

Unlike the '95% of people who don't give a toss about Europe', according to Graham Jones, and to which Margaret P. refers to.

Do you happen to know the actual source, where that figure came from?

Or was it plucked from the air, in utter desperation?

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I've already said I think Jones arrived at that figure, after taking a poll in his office.

With only Merkel the office cat, being responsible for the unloyal, dissenting 5%.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Thought about bank balance more like it, is chance of getting a JOB would have gone straight out the window if he'd have disobeyed Mr Ed

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ya and he must have roped Bernard in the swell the vote;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

So basically you just agree with whatever Graham Jones does through blind loyalty? I also don't see why disagreeing with him is "undermining" him. Surely the hallmark of a mature political relationship is being able to disagree about things at times?

As for leaving decisions to those who "know enough" about issues, why bother having a democracy at all? If the politicians know so much more than us, we may as well not bother with elections and just let them get on with it!

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I thought that was pretty much what was happening anyway.

The country wouldn't be in this state if politicians had listened to the electorate about lots of issues that are still causing problems....the porous borders is one of them that no one has had the cojones to tackle.

The fiasco of the Human Rights issues is another one...where an illegal immigrant can mow down a child, but not be deported because of his right to a family life. What about the girls family...don't they have a right to a family life? Obviously not...criminals come first.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Agreed.

Knowing your own mind, and not meekly following the flock, shows you have balls.

Not some subservient little eunuch.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...FqRBiXLoTFnnoi

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

This is exactly why I hate politicians with a passion....we are 'too thick', we are fooled by the media, we don't know our own minds. The only people we become 'dangerous' to are the politicians who fear the voice of the public.

Newsflash....politicians are thick too, they have banks of advisors who are all in it to feather their own nests and keep themselves in a job.

Please do NOT try to convince me that Graham Jones is some sort of finanacial oligarch with his finger on the pulse of international finance. he's a bloody politician who used to work in a factory.

As to the wording, most of us plebs want the question to be as simple as :- Do you want in? yes or no.

We don't want it muddying with semantics that will give rise to endless political debates which in turn will muddy the question even more.

As for your example of the Scottish referendum, the only people who thought that the question was a leading question were the politicians who were afraid of the answer.

I'll give my own example, Ireland...the euro politicians got the wrong answer and changed the question.

I have the full facts, I'm a grown up and I have a mind, or are you suggesting that ordinary voters are easily manipulated?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Out of Europe! Sorry I have an MP to vote for me.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Go on then, give me the full facts on pulling out of Europe.

As a Eurosceptic I'd really like to know the full implications.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ok..
a) for a start one of the main arguments is that jobs and exports are dependent on staying in, which is a lie.. we could still trade even if we were not a member, Switzerland and Norway are doing just fine thanks very much
b) neither Labour nor Tory government has done a cost based check on an in or out vote
c) we'd save a fortune on bureaucracy, hangers on and silly laws regarding cornish pasties or the length and girth of a banana
d) Brussels creates almost 3/4 of UK law, we have no autonomy as a country
e) You can have a trade agreement if you have something worthwhile to trade...look at Canada, USA and Mexico, without needing to relinquish sovereignty

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Fine, with you so far.

Is that it though? Is that the whole story and are you quite sure of your facts?

In all honesty I want to see the full picture here.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Don't you go worrying your prett...er, li'l head about it now.

Those who know best, the greatest political minds of our time...and printers, have decided that we really aren't the best people to have a say in our own destiny.

They've decided for us, and there'll be no referendum.

Little point you fretting unnecessarily about the whys, and wherefores now.

Jones know best.

Keep the faith.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well said , Less,
Don't be reluctant when you ask though. My mum grew up on Exchange St. went to Springhill school and the connection with Kashmir is apparent and obvious?!:o

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You know what else makes me laugh hysterically...my old man was a card carrying paid up member of the Labour party until the day he died, he thought Labour were for the ordinary guy in the street and tried to educate me into that way of thinking.

Yet half the current tories want out of Europe, but Labour were whipped in and helped swing the vote because of threats, and one of the whippers was our own MP, who was not in the house that day because I watched the whole sorry debacle on parliament TV

Why weren't you representing me Mr. Jones..why were you toeing the party line when you knew that the majority of your voters wanted out?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You haven't answered my question.

As someone who claims to know all the facts I want to hear more.

Please.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Of course thats not it!

You caught me on the hop, unlike you before a council meeting, I don't have an agenda in front of me with a list of possible questions that I can prepare answers for.

I suggest you go do a little bit of research and educate yourself just like the rest of us plebs have to do

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Yet you claim to have all the facts on pulling out of Europe, hence my asking. I personally do not, so although the sceptic in me wants to pull out I don't feel that I know enough to categorically see the full implications.

Sorry, I thought you knew.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

When in doubt, pick on a single word in a fifty word argument.. meh! politicians..dont make me pull up some of your posts like the one where you say you aren't a sheep yet 3 posts later you say Mr Jones is the one you follow regardless of your personal leanings

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I don't 'follow' him, I just trust him to make decent judgements on issues that he knows about. I don't know about the Europe situation anywhere near as well as he does and from hearing him talk he knows his stuff.

Why would I know about the EU inside out? I don't need to as yet.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You'd have thought now that we're Hyndburn International Council, they'd have used the world stage to condemn the attrocious human rights abuses, carried out in other parts of the world.

Child slavery, the sexual exploitation of minors, the rights for female equality, the torture and killing of political opponents, in say....Pakistan.

Not a word.

So Far.

Perhaps they'll tackle the issue at the next full meeting of our Internationalist Council.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Or easier still, he could just listen to what Graham Jones says.

After all, he does know best.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

And where do you think he gets this information to make judgements? Could it be the advisors with their own agenda? Could it be he is simply listening to EdM?.... he's spending a lot of time on the scrap metal issue and goings on at Ewood, he can't be everywhere?

Go do some research, have a look at the issues, he's wrong and he's let us down big style on this one

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I'm asking you first off, you said you had all the facts.

If you don't then that somewhat proves my point.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

He has a finely tuned, and very sharp political mind.

You only have to read a few of his old posts, to witness that.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...=2609658&pp=25

This is one of my own favourite examples, of this keen political intellect.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Actually I said 'full' facts, and like I said in my previous post you are simply picking on one word in a fifty word rant.

Of course I don't have the 'full' facts or even 'all' the facts that would be ridiculous and presumptious. You are continually picking at one word in a cogent argument to deflect the fact that you are sheepishly following the party line without makiing a single argument against the bulk of my post.

Or to paraphrase your idol '95% of my comments are apparently inarguable'

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

No, I'm just trying to make the point that on an EU referendum there would probably be a lot of people who claim to know their facts when in reality there are a few sizeable holes in their knowledge.

I am one of them.

I am all for a referendum but it would be dependent on all GB residents knowing everything they were voting on.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Not having that argument either..how many people vote in a general election with those constraints? Anyone on here know the manifestos of the big 3? Do you Ken, honestly?

I really think that the majority of people should be asked 'in or out' based on their own interpretations, do your party political broadcasts, have your debates etc.. but for the love of mike, let the people speak on this one

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Agreed, but come on, it's a biggie.

Party politics aside, if we're going to have big referendums we should know EVERYTHING.

And I'm not talking about that silly AV vote in 2011 either....

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Even your little chum agreed a referendum would settle the E.U. membership question 'democratically'.

Before shortly voting to deny the people of Hyndburn their democratic right, to have a say whether we want membership, or not.

Something we've never, ever been asked as a people.

The E.U. didn't even exist, the last time we had a referendum, on whether we wanted continued economic ties with mainland Europe

The arguments, for, and against, would have happened later.

If democracy, rather than blind, party political loyalty had triumphed.

Pointless, mulling it over now.

Greater minds than your's, have decided the question for you.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Yes we should, and in these days of instant research, communication etc.. we can find out for ourselves the pro's and con's of most arguments within an hour. Most politicians have still to realise that the majority can't be hoodwinked anymore by press clippings and hype.

Sorry that I appear argumentative but the AV vote was a good idea screwed up by the question and the timing, which I guess brings us full circle. :)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I'm not totally sure but being a whip he can't join in the debate, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

In other words if Ed says jump Gramham ask how high;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Unfortunately that is the same across all flavours of politics isn't it?

The meek may inherit the Earth but until then, they had better all do as they are darned well told.

http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Jobs..._Roosevelt.gif

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ya Less but if you notice this thread is entitled "Did Graham Jones do the right thing", not do all MPs do as they are told, and there was one person who didn't kowtow to the party rulers that was Ken Hargreaves, he was a true man of the people went to Westminster to represent the people of Hyndburn and was one of the very few Tory MPs who did not support the Community Charge (Poll Tax) because he knew it wasn't the right thing for the people who voted for him