Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Sorry, apologies for another poll on a similar topic, but I think it would be interesting to gauge public feeling, following Graham Jones's decision to vote against the British people being allowed a vote in a referendum on European Union membership last night.

It's a simple yes/no secret poll.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I don't see how anyone could possibly think he did make the right vote.

OK, there are two sides to the pro/anti-EU arguments and these arguments would have come out in a run-up to a referendum.

However, as has been said many times, the EU has become a completely different animal since the last referendum. There has been a wholesale shift in this country's sovereignty with us losing control over our borders and with whole swathes of laws being transferred to Brussels. This process can only continue as the mandarins of the EU continue in their drive to create a federal state.

To deny the British people a say on their own destiny displays a total contempt of the very tenets of democracy upon which our country has been built.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Somebody does.

Hey councillor?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

No need for secrecy - have just seen the results of the paliamentary vote, it was a foregone conclusion.
Did not one labour MP have the courage to follow His/Her own conscience and constituents wishes?
Nearly 100 Tories did show some moral integrity- something doesn't add up here, thought it was supposed to be those on the left who were the true idealists and closer to "THE PEOPLE"...

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

They say rats stick together on a sinking ship.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

There were 19 brave Labour M.P.'s.

Ours' not being one of them.

Full list of MPs who voted for an EU referendum | Politics | The Guardian

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Shall we play a little game, and guess who might vote he did the right thing, and try and also guess if there's anything that ties them all together?

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I can't understand why our MP's don't want us to decide what we want for our Country's future.

Do they think we are to stupid to made an informed choice?

Maybe Graham would like to explain if he thinks he constituents are to stupid to understand what the EU means for the Country and make an informed choice.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.''

- John Dalberg-Acton.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

No of course he didn't make the right choice....and underneath all the bluster he knows it too! But...for the moment at least...he wont be bothered! Because you see, he's part of the "Cozy Club" now, its a safety in numbers thing, we wont matter to him now until it comes that time again when we DO have a chance to vote!

Its not that most politicians think we are to stupid to form an educated opinion, its just that they don't actually give a damn what we think....until it matters to THEM!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Probably Cameron was ordered to kill it by his political masters in Brussels, they would loose billions if Great Britain left, they would be thinking of at all the money they've been robbing us of every year, providing their luxury life styles. Ireland was told to vote again, till they came up with a yes vote.
Retlaw

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Graham Jones
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Well good luck with that fight for justice Graham.

That's what 'people power' is all about.

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

(It's about the theft of copper wire, in case you're wondering.)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Oh its not about the fact he copped out then:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Many seem keen to back up their 'it was the wrong way to vote', with their reasons why.

Any of the small minority of 'yes, he did the right thing' voters, brave enough to publicly share with the forum why you think that?

It would be helpful if you could.

As the reason why it was the right way to vote last night, seems to be alluding the greater majority of people on here.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

There was talk prior to the election that consituencies could oust their MP if they were not satisfied with their performance. Was this ever implemented, or was it just another example of false Westminster spiel?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well it aint alluding me who those 3 probably are, n would suggest they aint got the balls to helpful.:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

My spirit guide, Septic Peg, isn't able to help you...just yet.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...mRNkO7EirewZBA

All she's getting is a red mist.

Which is preventing clearer vision.

:eek:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Theres 4 now, another secret lap dog.:D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

?

Any of you few, help the rest of understand?

All help greatly appreciated.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

...and all four of 'em, it would appear, gutless wimps who don't even have the bottle to come out in public and justify their point of view.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

See, this is where us oiks fail to see and understand things, like what your political elite can do guv'nor.

They're ever so cleverly able to spin those harsh words of yours.

Hey presto!

'Cowards, skulking in darkened corners' becomes 'Those better able to comprehend complicated ideas, exhibiting selfless, loyal, bravery'

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

...and then you Tweet it.

Claiming the moral high ground.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I cant say this is a shocker .

Wasnt Graham kicking up a fuss on facebook asking for support to keep Hyndburn a constituancy or we may loose our voice in parliament.

Whats the point of having a voice in parliament if it isnt saying what we want it to ?

He knows damn well from many years of reading this forum what public opinion is on this matter and spat in the faces of the people who elected him to represent us when he voted against the majority.

cameron dosnt think we have a right to an opinion and it seems graham jones dosnt either amongs the rest of teh other yellow livered lot thattowed the line

Im only 1 vote but its one less next time round and i will remember this when the next load of crap gets said about wanting to serve the area because this proves he dosnt.

well done to those of any party that defied tehir leader and listened to tehir real boss's which is us teh peopel who put them where they are

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I haven't voted.

The thread serves no useful purpose.
It appears on a par with a public flaggelation, and a witchunt of people who don't agree with the majority.

Neither is a desirable aftermath of the event.

Move on please.:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well boys and girl's, tomorrow's fun Accy Web poll question will be -

'How well as Graham Jones M.P. dealt with this crisis of support, and adequately explained his decision to vote, that others be denied their own vote in a referendum?

1. 'Yes, the lad's done brilliant. No, I'm not a member of the Labour party...honest!'

2. 'He's utterly failed to convince me, that it was the right thing to do.'




Only joking.

I've exceeded my yearly poll quota.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

The same thing happened over Iraq

quoted from an older thread

It really is about time these MP's started doingtehir damn jobs and representing the people nottheir party leaders

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Er...thank you for your non-contribution point of view, but I, and I presume others, won't be 'moving on'.

I firmly believe when something is very wrong, then you should at least try to right that wrong.

Bored, don't like what's being said, can all be easily solved.

Don't bother reading it.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

As for 'witch-hunt'.

Are you having a laugh?

I'm sure an ambitious young politican like Graham can take all this gentle ribbing in his stride.

It's certainly no different from how he treated Karen Buckley, the Conservative candidate in the last General Election.

Scrub 'witch-hunt'.

Think more 'Peasants' Revolt'.

The downtrodden rising up against their elitist oppressors.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

god forbid somone use a local forum to inform others of what is occuring in our comunity and decisions made that effect all of us and generations to follow.

its ok for coucnilors to come on here flapping their gums about massive injustice but the second a member of public does it then its not ok ?

I for one am glad this has come up as a discussion as it shows exactly what our representitive thinks of our opinion.

Not to worry a few good deeds down the line and a few feel good stories in the paper and this will all be forgotten .

What saps we must seem to those above :rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

who ..? :D

oh yeah teh local ass who lived 500 miles away and was linked to accrington because she once ate an icecream here or something

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

See? Just how well things can be spun, by politicans?

That's how she's remembered.

Given what I know now, I'd have been describing her thus.

'A working class lass, with strong ties to the Accrington area through her mum's family. A girl who has made a success of her life, thanks to an assisted school place for poor children. Who's now a busy working mum, who understands the difficulties of bringing up a family, juggled with trying to earn enough money to pay the ever increasing bills we all face.'

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well you should know.:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Besides, I was always brought up to fight for something I believed in. If I knew it was totally the right thing to do.

Perhaps stupidly I still believe you should try and make a difference, and attempt to make things better.

Unlike some, I'm not quite the bitter cynic, who thinks there's no point in doing anything, because we're all at the mercy of those evil Jews, and their fiendish plan for world domination.

You may have lived across the street from my Dad. Been in the same class at school, and went to the same Sunday school, but other than that, what you both think/thought about the world is so very far apart. Thankfully.

He was a better person than me.

He wouldn't tease you, like I do.

He'd worry about what turned you from that young girl into the woman of today.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

But then where would we be without you?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

The only possible conclusion, that can be arrived at, from the results of this poll, is that the greater majority don't think it was the right thing to do.

Whether people are for, or against, there is overwhelming evidence that people want to have a say in their future, by being allowed to have their opinion counted in a referendum on the European Union..

That, couldn't be clearer.

Even if most M.P.'s voted on Monday night against people having that democratic right.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I would just like to thank Bernard Dawson, Claytonender, Ken Moss, Clare Pritchard for their overwhelming input into this discussion, its been very much appreciated and duly noted;):rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

They may have had their input, by voting in the various polls.

Silently contributing.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Being one of the four secret lap dogs , I haven't posted on this thread because I have made my views known by posting on other threads on this issue over recent days .

What would be the purpose of repeating what I have already said ?

My previous posts should make it clear why I voted "Yes" on this thread .

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Well I've read your posts, expessing your views on the European Union.

Though I'm not clear as to why you think people shouldn't have a right to vote on this issue in a referendum, for the very first time.

Could you possibly spell it out, as to why people should be denied that right?

Because as far as I'm aware, you haven't made that clear so far.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

That's what I meant Rindi the silent minority;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Yes, JCB, you've propounded various arguments in favour of staying in the EU, but that's not the point. What I'd like to know is why you think Graham was right to deny us the chance to decide for ourselves whether we want to be in the EU or not.

Anyway, never mind about that, this is a witch hunt. We'll be forming a torch-lit mob and descending on your house tonight to carry you down to the river and throw you in to see if you float. ;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Its quite obvious Rindi, that us plebs wouldn't give the power brokers the answers they require;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

The basic reason is that I do not think that referendums are a good thing in our parliamentary democracy .

We have general elections to elect an MP to represent us in Parliament according to his/her own judgement as the issues arise .

There is a wrong belief by many that we were given a vote in a referendum when we joined the EEC .
The Conservative Government took us into the EEC through a majority of MPs voting for it in Parliament .
The referendum came later when we were already in . It was not adopted for some noble principle about letting the British people have a democratic say . It was a ploy used by Harold Wilson to settle the problems the EEC issue was causing the Labour Party .

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ah, so unlike Blair, Brown, and Cameron, who all at one time said they'd give the British people a referendum to decide this issue, you don't believe in them?

Denying others the right to have their say on European Union membership, for the very first time, has nothing to do with protecting the current status quo, because you just happen to support it.

Fair enough.

Did you vote in the 1975 referendum, when the country was asked whether they wanted to remain in the then Common Market?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I voted yes but it was a different beast in those days

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Although I don't think it vaild, thank you for attempting a justification.

As far as we're aware, explaining clearly why giving people a referendum is wrong, is more than Graham Jones has done.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

whilst accepting yer view, i disagree strongly wi it JCB, i was always under impression that people voted fer MPs to represent the constituency, seems that was a daft notion in this instance.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

that is exactly what their job is and ours didnt do it on this occasion

if more MP's had done their job we would more than likely be having a referendum

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

:D:eek::D:eek: I'm not sure which smiley to use . Perhaps we should have a referendum on it . ;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Yes , I have voted in the two nationwide referendums we have had in the UK .

In 1975 I voted to withdraw from the EEC .

This year I voted to reject the Alternative Vote .

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

So you 'believed' in them then, and took your right to vote in one, making your view count?

Just not now, so everyone can have their right, for the very first time, re: the European Union, as it is now.

Ok.

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

So how is now different from 1975?

So we can understand your reasoning, and it just looks to others that because of what you think regarding continuing membership, it suits your cause not to have a referendum on this issue now.

Especially as the European Union is a far different entity to the Common Market, as it then was in 1975, when you took your right to vote in a referendum.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Since you apparently believe referendums aren't 'a good thing in our parliamentary democracy'.

What made you suspend your disbelief in them in 1975, and vote in one?

If there isn't a rational explanation, some could say your support that there shouldn't be the same right now, in which everyone can vote for the very first time on E.U. membership in a referendum, smacks of hypocrisy.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

If there isn't a rational explanation, it'll look to everyone that your stance is the same as Graham Jones.

Voting not to give everyone a right to vote on this issue suits your needs.

Because you happen to support continued membership of the European Union, just like Graham Jones.

So sod the rights of others.

Well I'm afraid to an awful lot of people that sounds far removed from democracy.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

At least it's now clear why you are one of the tiny minority, who voted in this poll that Graham Jones had done the right thing.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I don't see any hypocrisy in having voted in a referendum in 1975 and in this year .

To think that referendums ought not to be part of the democratic system in this country , but to vote in one since I have been given the option is not contradictory .

If there were a referendum on the EU in 2013 I would hopefully use my vote , but , unless I have changed my mind by then , I would still be against referendum in principle .

I don't believe that party politics should have the place they have in local government . That doesn't prevent me from voting in local elections .

I have to live and act within a system as it is , though I might prefer it to be otherwise .

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Fair enough.

Though to others I'm sure it will seem your view, that everyone shouldn't have the right to vote on this issue for the very first time, just so happens to protect what you believe to be right about our E.U. membership.

;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Any other 'yes, he did the right thing' voters publicly prepared to say why it was right people be denied a vote in a referendum on E.U. membership?

You obviously believe it was right, because you too voted for it.

It would be very interesting to know your reasons why.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Personally, no matter how unpopular it might be to others, if I believe something to be right, I have the strength of my convictions.

Which means I will always be prepared to argue my case, and give a reasoned explanation, as to what I believe to be true.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I posted in another thread that I think Graham is a good man, with a good heart.

With every fibre of my being I think how he voted was wrong.

However, even though I've been highly critical of what he's done, if I needed his help, just as he would for anyone else, I know as a certainty he'd go out of his way to give that help.

Which in my books makes him a good man still.

Though it doesn't lessen the utter frustration, shared by a greater majority, that although he said two weeks ago he had no problem with a referendum, he voted that we shouldn't be allowed that right.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I have a problem with referendums in one respect. We have a system whereby the constituents vote for an MP and then they should respect our views. A referendum is basically a vote of no confidence in our MPs regardless of the outcome.

But, I think there should be some mechanism whereby big, important decisions are voted on within constituencies and then that MP has to represent the majority view of the constituency. For example at election time some issues to be debated and regardless of party policy, that MP has his or her policies decided by the constituents. I'm not sure how it would work but it would avoid some of the 'whip' deciding which way to vote issues and it would also avoid some parties being able to block votes.

I hasten to add, it would probably create anarchy :D

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Not anarchy ... chaos maybe. But I disagree that a referendum is a vote of no confidence. Referenda are useful, perhaps necessary when an issue arises that is so important to the nation that a vote, a non-partisan vote of all qualified voters is the only sane and sensible way to resolve it. I remember reading a couple of days ago that one rebel in the House stated that if the future of Britain as an independent nation was not an important enough issue on which to call for a national vote, he didn't know what was.

In a democracy, power is invested in the people. They delegate that power to representatives in the legislative assembly (for you guys, and for us, the House of Commons) .... they delegate that power, they do not surrender it. And it is this point that many politicians choose to ignore.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I've voted after a lot of consideration that he should not have voted against a referendum. Not because I necessarily think we should pull out of Europe because in general I am fairly pro-Europe (although I have to qualify that that is in principle rather than in actually the way things are going at the moment).

However, I am a believer in democracy and the general opinion seems to be that we should NOT be in Europe so therefore, that's how I think he should have voted. He should have voted with his constituents and not because his party wanted to make a protest against Cameron.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

There should be a referendum on this issue, because the European Union is a fundamentally different body to that of the Common Market. Which we did vote to stay in, via a referendum in 1975.

Whatever we feel, either for or against continued membership, doesn't matter one iota at this stage.

Because there has been a seismic shift in how we are now governed, that needs to be ratified by a democratic vote.

Blair, Brown, and Cameron know the majority of people want this right. That's why they said, always before an election, that there will be a referendum on the E.U. Then renege on that promise, once they're elected.

It is right people be allowed their views are counted, in a referendum.

It was wrong a majority of our M.P.'s denied people this right, as an act of protectionism, just because they happen to favour E.U. membership.

As stated earlier, if the majority of people vote, for the very first time, that they want to continue our membership, I, and other sceptics will accept that decision, because it's been arrived at democratically.

A referendum is the only solution to this issue, and M.P.'s should respect the majority wishes of those who elected them, and vote to ensure it happens.

It's shameful most didn't do this, when they had the chance on Monday night.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

this is a wrong time for a referendum it would distract the markets and make it even more unstable effecting everybody who has a private pension isa etc

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Uttter rubbish, the proposed referendum was fer 3 choices,(1)Stay In. (2) Get Out. (3) stay in with concessions, as it wouldn't have been fer a few more years, that was ample time fer all points of view to be given to the public, at that point n informed vote would occur.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Timing is irrelevant ... it is a matter of the importance of the question. When the question seems to concern the survival of the UK as an independent nation, it should outweigh all other matters. Or, one could pershaps go as far as to suggest that all other concerns are subsumed in the question of membership in the EU.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Party line, blah, blah, blah.

Who are you, Mystic Meg, to say it won't be a much worse time in the future?

Who knows what a mess Europe might be in by 2015, the earliest a referendum is likely be discussed again?

Still, sweet of you to worry about those with private pensions.

What about those in Britain, who've worked hard every day of their lives, who get only a state pension, of which there are millions?

Our elderly worse off than Romania's: British pensioners among the poorest in Europe | Mail Online

This is a very clear case of right/wrong.

Either you believe E.U. membership should be put to a referendum, or you don't.

Monday night's vote was on the principle of should there be one. There was no time scale attached.

M.P.'s voted to protect the E.U., because they happen to support continued membership.

People are demanding they have a say, as their democratic right.

'Not the right time' is a pathetic cop out, and shows what a pathetic bunch those who trot it out are, because that's the best excuse they can come up with.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

That says it all Eric, I for one am sick of unelected bureaucrats over ruling the elected government at Westminster and its time the British people were allowed to have a say on the European issue, after all its 36 years since we were last asked for our views and that was on a completely different animal than we now have, people under 54 have never been allowed to air their views on the EU, its time their voices were allowed to be heard

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Obviously all the local disquiet about the way Graham voted, hasn't registered as important enough an issue for him to write about.

Since Monday's vote, Graham has blogged about something else I'm sure is utmost on all our minds, copper theft.

Graham Jones MP

He did mention on Facebook there will be an e-petition too.

To force the government to act on this pressing problem.

I'm sure we'll be able to find it to sign up, and support his campaign for justice.

Even if he didn't support ours'.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Though he did blog he supported a referendum, on the Alternative Vote issue.

Graham Jones MP: The Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill designed to gerrymander constituencies across the country

So we can presume he's not opposed to them per se.

Just when the result might go against what he personally supports.

So best not take that chance, and deny people their right to have their views counted.

Odd that.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

He's a politician Rindi, whenever did politicians ever do the bidding of the people, except 6 weeks before an election;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

According to today's Express, the Frogs have been loading their unemployed onto UK bound trains so that, effectively, they won't have to pay them unemployment benefits - that privilege will therefore be down to the good old British tax-payer. And there are still those that think the European Union is good for us!!!

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I think we should write to our MP about it Stumped;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

'Public opinion is shifting, too: only a third of the country regards Britain’s EU membership as a good idea. The old left-right divide over Europe, which governed British politics for two decades, has disintegrated.'

'This is no longer a debate about abstract issues of sovereignty. Rather, Euroscepticism is becoming an all-party force, united in disgust at Europe’s inefficiency, profligacy and anti-democratic elitism.'

Politics: Euroscepticism isn’t just for Tories any more | The Spectator

Someone's at least able to gauge the true feelings of the majority of ordinary man and woman in the street.

Even if our M.P. can't.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

The EU is run by the European Council (not the Council of Europe) made up of national ministers who are directly accountable to national parliaments.

As we have seen with the EU crises, leaders and finance ministers made all the decisions. The EU parliament had nothing to do with the big decisions.

I didn't have a say on Irish home rule or the Treaty of Versailles. How far do you propose to go back in time? I am sorry John but that's a daft one.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Er...Monday.

When the vast majority of your constituents wanted you to vote in favour of a referendum.

Which, for the very first time, would have allowed people a democratic vote. Saying whether they were in favour of European Union membership, or not.

People want this right.

Which is presumably why it was dangled like a carrot on a stick before the electorate, by both Blair, Brown, and Cameron, prior to various General Elections.

But who all reneged on this promise, once they'd secured election victory.

You, yourself, said on here, a little over two weeks ago said that you, and I quote, 'have no objection to a simple in out vote' as it 'settles the issue democratically'...then voted against giving us this right!

Why?

By sabotaging people's right for a democratic vote on this issue, just because you happen to be pro-European Union, just makes you look like you are protecting what you happen to think is right, and are more interested in supporting your party's elite leadership, than supporting the people who elected you.

You can attempt to spin this however you like.

In the eyes of most of us you have acted very shoddily towards us all.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Not as daft as us sitting back while Sarkozy piles his unemployed onto trains and sends them through the channel tunnel to look for British Jobs and when unsuccessful being housed and kept by the British tax payer, all rubber stamped by the EC. They keep trying to tell us that this works two ways, yet I Haven't seen too many of our citizens hightailing it over to eastern Europe, after taking their jobs and when unsuccessful being kept on benefits by these governments, its always a one way ticket in that respect and all the roads lead to good old GB, marvelous, is it any wonder that the population of GB will have reached 70 million very shortly with the influx of people coming to the promised land being mainly responsible, you couldn't make it up

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

...and don't even try to attempt painting people who don't agree with you as right-wing, Little Englanders.

Many, like myself, are long term Labour voters, who are utterly sick and fed up of the elitist, ambitious, careerist politicans, who are so cocooned in their comfortable little worlds, they haven't got a bloody clue what ordinary people really think.

We all shamefully witnessed what our political leaders really think of us, when Gordon Brown branded Gillian Duffy as a racist bigot, for daring to raise the question of immigration with the then Prime Minister.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

88% of people, right across the political spectrum, who voted in this poll, are united in the belief you let them down.

By not voting that they are allowed a democratic vote in a referendum, on a body that has fundamentally changed beyond all recognition, since the last time they were asked about it, in 1975.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Have to disagree rindy,they have in most cases got a clue, they just don't give a toss what ordinary folk think.:(

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ironic isn't it that not one of the labour people choosen by the electorate to be their representative in Hyndburn has made a comment on Graham Jones decision?:rolleyes: Do they agree or disagree with the way he voted or are they being told not to air their views on a public forum?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Ya once they reach the land of milk and honey its http://cdn.content.sweetim.com/sim/c...s/00020337.gifto the electors

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

If you don't think the views of Accy Webbers are representative enough for you Graham, as reflecting the views of your constituents, I believe the Observer are toying with a similar poll, so as to gauge public opinion on this matter.

The results of which, we, the ordinary people, know as a certainty, will further illustrate that people think they deserve a right to have their views be counted in a referendum.

(...and no, I didn't contact them.)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Perhaps they're doing away with whips, and instead pointing guns at heads, in order to appear as unified.

The whole thing is shameful, and shoddy.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

...and if all those who disagree with how you voted are right-wing Little Englanders, it seems odd to pass on information to one of them, in the run up to the last General Election.

Information that you were too afraid to publicly leak yourself, whilst campaigning to secure your election victory.

Eh...Graham?

:rolleyes:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Reminds me of that old joke Rindi, excuse me Mr Jones, but where's your other face, my gran says your two faced;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

I'm a pragmatist and it hurts that sometimes jobs and growth mean principles have to be more measured. I believe the high pay for example should be dealt with a progressive tax system however there is a point where it is not in Britains interests and the rich hold us to random.

Bankers promising to flee to New York or Frankfurt (Euro 17 a real worry in this case) when the City contribute £1 in every £7 to the chancellor is a case in question. I know what we'd like to do in principle but how far dare we go?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Is it pragmatism, or hypocrisy, to say one thing

...and two weeks later, do another?

How can people possibly trust anything you say, after doing that?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

It just looks to your constituents that what you say can't now be believed, and that you abused your privilege of office to protect the status quo of what you happen to believe about our European Union membership, and sod the rights of your constituents to have their opinions count.

You accused me of saying you'd become out of touch with ordinary people.

You are, on this issue.

People are demanding their democratic right to vote in a referendum, on our future relationship with the European Union.

If you can't understand this, that proves you are out of touch with the feelings of the vast majority of local people.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

A somewhat hamfisted attempt at deflecting the issue, Graham. Why don't you just answer Gary's question about why two weeks ago you had "no objection" to a referendum and now you've suddenly discovered sufficient objections to vote against it?

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

:bleedht::bleedht::bleedht::bleedht::bleedht:

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

You're asking a lot there Wynonie, from a politican.

A straightforward answer, to a staightforward question.

:rolleyes:

Within minutes, of Monday night's results being announced in Westminster, our M.P., Graham Jones, was posting away on Twitter.

Smugly tweeting that the result of the vote, whether people deserve a referendum or not, was a 'disaster for the Tory party'.

Well, on this occasion, he was half right.

It was a disaster.

A disaster for democracy, and a disaster for the people of Britain.

Who were denied their democratic right to vote on this issue.

Political spin works both ways.

There were probably some, slightly more in touch with reality tweeters, posting that the people of this country have now seen which party has more M.P.'s prepared to become rebels, and vote for their constituents' rights, rather than their own, or their particular partys'.

We've all now witnessed there were considerably more brave souls in the Conservative party, prepared to do this, than the pitiful few there was from the Labour benches.

Graham, if you think this controversy is magically going to disappear, you're wrong...again.

The majority of people in this country are angry they have been denied a referendum, on such an important issue for the future of our country.

This is not going away, until this outrageous situation has been satisfactorily rectified.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Also, as various people have posted on here, it's really rather pointless of you to carry on spouting your pro-European Union argument.

We would have listened to you, had you voted in favour of giving the people a referendum, and there was now ample time for a reasoned public debate to take place, about the pro's and con's of E.U. membership.

Until this happens you may as well talk to the wall.

No one's listening.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

What:jimbo:;)

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

The showdown may well come sooner than most folks think. The coalition is doomed, thanks to nitwit Clegg, which should result in a snap election when, I am convinced, the majority of the turncoat MP's will be confined to the dustbin of history, after which there may be something worth voting for. Can't wait.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Would hope yer right Stumped,have me doubts though.

Re: Did Graham Jones do the right thing?
 

Douglas Carswell MP speaks for the 81 Tory rebels in the Sunday Telegraph. The argument is thus, we want the common market and free trade and we want to repeal workers rights to make sure this happens;

Douglas Carswell MP;
"We have to liberalise the rules and regulations that are preventing wealth creation – and that is going to have to mean extricating ourselves from many of the EU rules that are suffocating the economy.

In this Parliament, we should repatriate control over all aspects of employment law – including working time rules and regulation concerning temporary workers, and over the regulation of the City. If this was presented as part of a comprehensive package of measures to get the economy moving, Lib Dems wanting to be taken seriously on the deficit would have no choice but to back it."

Carswell says he is writing for the 81 rebels that wanted a referendum in order to 'hold a gun' to the EU to repatriate these laws and re-entering the EU trading zone on business only basis which would accept all the commerce directives (bananas, eccles cakes) and payments to the EU.