Schoolgirl wins dress case - Page 8

WillowTheWhisp · 05-03-2005, 08:36

I honestly believe the "PC Brigade" are the cause of most of the problems they claim to exist to prevent. (Putting aside the HuT for a moment.) If it weren't for people telling us what we can and can't say and can and can't do I think the majority of us would get along fine with each other. I'm more than happy to learn about other cultures and we have always gained in the past by integrating bits of things into our own way of life. The problem we are up against these days is that we are expected to disregard our English/Christian heritage in case it may offend people. But the people who would have us disregard it do not speak on behalf of the people they assume it will offend. Personally I'd rather my children grew up being permitted to openly celebrate Christmas and Easter with their Christian friends and also Eid with their muslim friends, Chinese New Year with their Chinese friends etc. That way we all gain.

I find it very worrying that we are now so PC that we are expected to defend the rights of people who want to encourage violence and division. The media coverage gives the impression that such people speak on behalf of a majority when in fact giving them media coverage is exactly what they want because they are only a small section of the population but publicity attracts other supporters.

There is no way the whole world is going to be converted to Islam and more than the whole world was ever converted to Christianity when that was forced upon other people. What about the atheists and agnostics? Nobody can force anyone else into a set of beliefs they don't subscribe to.

The Blairs were certainly barking up the wrong tree with this one weren't they?

Thanks for all the information mani and A-b. It helps us to put the whole thing into perspective.

stanerlee · 05-03-2005, 09:25

mani, nice one , i've upped your karma for those posts.
you have given the asain perspective in a sensible well put together manner despite some of the ill informed comments earlier in the thread ie "i hate muslims".
we have to take people on individual basis not as a whole. i ask people to think what about if you were taking the blame for the recently convicted british soldiers and their crimes? or baden powell and the concentration camps set up in the boer war?
mani has been a bastion for his race and religion and people should think about what they are saying.
yes i agree that this dress case is over the top, but your average muslim in the street also holds that view and it is something that needs to be addressed by everyone and not just head in the sand politicians. but divicive comments about indians being better than pakistanis or i hate everyone from a particular race or creed will not help anyone.
think before you speak.
ignorance maybe bliss . but it's ******* frustrating for the rest of us.

mani · 05-03-2005, 15:25

oooooooooh i just remmeber what else i was gonna blah blah on about

taking the dead to be buried in pakistan/india

basically in india/pak families tend to have a graveyard for family members as my family does. when i went there last yr i went to my sis's graveside and there was alot of folk from my ancestors buried there. so people who lived there in their youth, where they had their childhood memories wanna be buried there. thats all it is.

i for one have told family members that when i die i want to b buried in accrington. simple reason - i was bred here i grew up here and here is where i am most at peace. ok its accy but its home too. my daughter and family members can come when they want etc wihtout having to spend £600 to b visiting my grave...

my sis who grew up in pak said she wanted to b buried there. so we did as her wishes were. i personally disagreed with her that she wud b makin a mistake. her kids are here, her family is here how often wud we get a chance to pray by her graveside in pakistan? i've never been a staunch supporter of takin bodies back to pakistan.

and one of the biggest reasons of it all is ironically its against the beliefs of islam for a body to b taken else where and buried there. according to islam a body shud b buried as soon as. obviously circumstances permittin.

a friend of mine died in the tsunami thing - he was holidaying in sri lanka though he was pak himself. they did find his body but his parents decided to let it b there and not to the uk or pak - there were a few ppl who raised eyebrows and gave it their high and mighty bring the body back here - i was like whats the point? they found the body after 5 days and it wasnt in the most perfect condition. his parents were there for the burial y dont u just use that hot air from ur mouth to pray for him instead of causing his parents more grief?

IMY · 05-03-2005, 17:29

HI people how are we all doing.

i have been on here for about 30 mins reading this topic which am surprised has had sooo much attention and comments but is a good thing so at least people can things off their chest as to put it. Their has been some very good points to which i do agree to and some others which are just very childish and pathetic but i guess that is expected.

when i did see this on the new a few days back i was surprised that the courts had let this case sooooo far in the first place and you all know what happens when the media get a slight sniff... i did find it a bit stupid as to why the girl had done all this as am sure she must have known before going to this school that would not have been allowed to wear the full traditional clothing BUT she was allowed to wear the headscarf but she wanted to go that little bit further and see how far she could push this system and i guess she did get very far and it has made Mr blair and those posh tots at downing street look stupid with egg on their face i guess they have only got themselve to blame in the first place..............

i do believe that if you come to this country you should adapt to it's way of life abide it's laws and try to fit into its lifestyle as best as you can and if you do not like it then you should not be here, but this is for all religions and backgrounds not just for muslims !!!

i myself and born n bred here in accrington all my life and have never found it hard or found myself feeling an outsider as i try to be myself and just get on with it sort of thing. trying to adjust in any place,communtiy,country may be hard but once you get going it is not that bad after all

yes i do agree that their are extremists who use this religion to fight their wars and make attacks on others not just here in the uk but all over the world but they are not what being a muslim is about but i guess the majority of you on here know that only the stubborn and ill mannered dont accept this and do try their best to put us all in the same basket

any way enough of me and am sure to get some hmmm and ahh's from this which i hope i do and look foward to your comments

btw chav1 i dont think you have ever met any decent pakistanis or you just say what others tell you

stanerlee · 05-03-2005, 17:35

nice one imy.
like i said earlier ,take folk as you find 'em.

Margaret Pilkington · 05-03-2005, 17:54

I would just like to point out that my intention was not to be racist in the comment I made......I worked with people from all races and creeds during my career, and I met good and bad in all races.
I just find the political correctness crazy, and the way we bend over backwards to accommodate ethnic practices borders on reverse racism. If I went to live in some of the muslim countries would my beliefs be taken care of in such a manner? I doubt it!

I would like to thank Mani for his input in letting us know how his own community sees the issue.

Margaret Pilkington · 05-03-2005, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

I’m not a racist Bagpuss. I’m happy to embrace anyone of any colour, religion or culture, but when these people come to this country they should respect our pre goody, goody lets be gay, multi cultural bull**** political correctness laws. Respect our 1800 year old Christian Culture. Our People, and traditions and Heritage. Enoch Powell was out of step and before is time. Where is he now and who in British Anglo Saxon politics has the balls to stand up and lead where he left off.

Very well said Doug......I couldn't have put it better myself.....in fact that is what I meant when I said that Enoch was right.....not racist. When in Rome etc.etc.

Bagpuss · 05-03-2005, 19:33

This thread has got better with every post and I thank the moderators for not deleting any posts. I have taken a battering on my karma points and that was to be expected although I have received some back, thanks to the people who pm me but I won't edit my post.
What I was after saying was that I still think I am a racist, I do lot like the muslim religion infact I don't like any religion to be honest although for the record I was brought up a catholic and did go to church. Most of the wars in the world are caused by religion but now it seems we have a new enemy, the PC brigade who in this thread at least seem to stir up more anger than religion its self.

Doug · 05-03-2005, 19:48

I support your decision not to edit your post Bagpuss and I welcome the fact that the Moderators have left well alone. I say this because right or wrong we should all embrace the right to free speech and self expression. Even when we offended others we should all remember that our forefathers give their lives for that right. And by that I include all those Nations and their sons who of all religions and cultures died for this country and the rights of its people.

IMY · 05-03-2005, 21:24

Evening all,good to see we are all having our own little freedom of speech in here. we all have the right of freedom of speech in this country which is good unlike a lot of countires where if you did say something you would be put in jail or even worse but dont you feel their is a point where your freedom of speech should only go ???

yes a lot of people dont like the muslim religion but i gues that has nothing to do with the real muslims of our own society who actually live here and have been here for a long time but from the minority who come here and just want to unsettle different countys up and down the country to which they are being very successfull at present and the narrow minded of different towns and cities seem to judge what only a handful of people do to one big society as a whole...........

WillowTheWhisp · 05-03-2005, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I just find the political correctness crazy, and the way we bend over backwards to accommodate ethnic practices borders on reverse racism.

It isn't reverse racism. It IS racism pure and simple. Anything which makes a detrimental racial distinction against any race is racism.

If there are rules for one section of society which do not apply to another section of society because of their race then that is racism.

If I didn't employ a black person purely because they are black that would make me a racist. Equally if a black employer wouldn't hire me because I am white that too is racist.

The same applies in my opinion if someone is employed not purely on merit but gets a few extra "brownie points" for being from a minority group of any kind. Everyone should be taken on their own individual merit, nothing more and nothing less.

IMY · 05-03-2005, 21:38

well said WTW i totally agree with you but as you know your self we dont live in a perfect society nor a perfect world.....................
The last comment regarding the few xtra brownies points does actually work the other way from what i have heard, seen and read that the minority dont even get a look in at soem jobs even if they are equally qualifed or even more qualifed than their other more "british" counter parts

WillowTheWhisp · 05-03-2005, 21:42

No we don't live in a perfect society but wouldn't it be nice if we did? It's frightening when extremists (on various sides with various points of view) create a false impression for others and result in more misunderstandings and antagonism.

IMY · 05-03-2005, 21:45

yes it is, but it only takes one person to start something out of nothing and all hell breaks loose or some stupid comment can make all the difference.....

Acrylic-bob · 06-03-2005, 05:56

There is a longish two page article in the Sunday Times this morning which I think is well worth reading.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...512821,00.html

The questions asked at the end of the article strike me as extremely pertinent. It would be interesting to hear what all members, from whatever side of the religious/racial divide, think.