The Tories

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

You really are not getting it are you, your precious Labour nearly bankrupted the country, remember the note thy left? We have spent all the money?
It will take years and years to sort out, but of course if it was Labour you would just say that after so many years of miss rule it will take more than one term to sort out.

You could be Thatcher talking couldn't you? She kept saying the same thing years ago.
See my earlier post about "it's never our fault".
Let me ask a simple question: why is it that every time the Tories come to power after a period of Labour government they always start with the same battle cry of "we'll have to sort out this mess" and then start hammering the less well-off whilst giving hand-outs to those who don't need them?
Thatchers vacuous argument that the awards given to the rich would "trickle down" to the less fortunate was never true. It didn't happen and it never will because of sheer human greed.
The Labour party are far from perfect and you will never hear me say they are (I have posted as much on here) but I will never support a party who are so obviously contemptuous of the majority of ordinary people in this country. Their obvious favouritism toward their paymasters and old school tie buddies has nothing to do with getting the country out of a "mess" and everything to do with making the rich richer until they eventually lose power again.
As for Labour not re-nationalising I think you will find that Thatcher and her pals made that virtually impossible. Unless the government was prepared to pay millions in compensation to shareholders it would have to be a "re-nationalisation without compensation" which would, I think, be political suicide.
One of the things that made me a socialist (originally) was my basic inherent belief, however naive, in fairness. I am not and never will be "jealous" of anyone wealthy, they are welcome to the fruits of their labours. The only problem is how some people get that wealth. If it is gained by working hard and treating their workers with respect and decency and paying a good wage with good conditions then that is good. If it is gained from being talented and reaping the rewards of that talent, that is good. I don't even mind inherited wealth (providing it doesn't come with inherited privilege).
The difficulty is that too many of them gain money by deceit, by walking all over people (see Victorian post by me), by borderline (and sometimes downright illegal) legal means and by dealings (bankers?) which then pass down to ordinary people in the form of recession and bankrupt economies.
The problem is the Tories support all of this and then, when the going gets tough economically, they start looking at ways of fleecing the poor and taking no notice whatsoever of the billions wasted in not making the wealthy, including companies not just individuals, actually pay tax at all. Some millionaires pay less tax than you and I because of legal loopholes and off-shore banking.
I would sooner have an inept government than one that works so obviously against the people at the wrong end of the economic scale. Labour have often got things wrong but at least there is an element of fairness (however well hidden these days) in what they try to do.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

You could be Thatcher talking couldn't you? She kept saying the same thing years ago.
See my earlier post about "it's never our fault".
Let me ask a simple question: why is it that every time the Tories come to power after a period of Labour government they always start with the same battle cry of "we'll have to sort out this mess" and then start hammering the less well-off whilst giving hand-outs to those who don't need them?
Thatchers vacuous argument that the awards given to the rich would "trickle down" to the less fortunate was never true. It didn't happen and it never will because of sheer human greed.
The Labour party are far from perfect and you will never hear me say they are (I have posted as much on here) but I will never support a party who are so obviously contemptuous of the majority of ordinary people in this country. Their obvious favouritism toward their paymasters and old school tie buddies has nothing to do with getting the country out of a "mess" and everything to do with making the rich richer until they eventually lose power again.
As for Labour not re-nationalising I think you will find that Thatcher and her pals made that virtually impossible. Unless the government was prepared to pay millions in compensation to shareholders it would have to be a "re-nationalisation without compensation" which would, I think, be political suicide.
One of the things that made me a socialist (originally) was my basic inherent belief, however naive, in fairness. I am not and never will be "jealous" of anyone wealthy, they are welcome to the fruits of their labours. The only problem is how some people get that wealth. If it is gained by working hard and treating their workers with respect and decency and paying a good wage with good conditions then that is good. If it is gained from being talented and reaping the rewards of that talent, that is good. I don't even mind inherited wealth (providing it doesn't come with inherited privilege).
The difficulty is that too many of them gain money by deceit, by walking all over people (see Victorian post by me), by borderline (and sometimes downright illegal) legal means and by dealings (bankers?) which then pass down to ordinary people in the form of recession and bankrupt economies.
The problem is the Tories support all of this and then, when the going gets tough economically, they start looking at ways of fleecing the poor and taking no notice whatsoever of the billions wasted in not making the wealthy, including companies not just individuals, actually pay tax at all. Some millionaires pay less tax than you and I because of legal loopholes and off-shore banking.
I would sooner have an inept government than one that works so obviously against the people at the wrong end of the economic scale. Labour have often got things wrong but at least there is an element of fairness (however well hidden these days) in what they try to do.

Often got things wrong they never got anything right

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Wish you dyed in the wool Tories would stop harping on about the 'there's nothing left, we've spent it all' note.....it was meant as a joke to the incoming minister, it's the kind of warped humour that I have, it obviously backfired because most tories are without humour, and much prefer to treat the police like sixth formers treat first years, and have nicknames like 'thrasher'...

You're right Guiness, only the Tories would use a joke as political capital and expect people, other than other Tories, to take it seriously. You only have to look at the painted smiles to see the lack of humour. At least Prescott was honest and didn't try to look happy when he wasn't.

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Often got things wrong they never got anything right

Oh come on Jay, did you really have to quote all of his post just to say that?
Just think of how much space you're taking up on the overworked servers?

[Houseboy]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Often got things wrong they never got anything right

Good post, Jay. I see you have, as usual, dismantled my argument entirely in your usual well argued and eloquent manner. Well done.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Oh come on Jay, did you really have to quote all of his post just to say that?
Just think of how much space you're taking up on the overworked servers?

Think of all the space that would be saved if he didn't post the crap that Mancie and Jockstrap have been posting since the start of this thread

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Houseboy

Good post, Jay. I see you have, as usual, dismantled my argument entirely in your usual well argued and eloquent manner. Well done.

I ain't wasting my time wade through crap that's been pedalled out for over two years, what you wrote has been repeated dozens of times before if you'd care to read it would save you even bothering repeating it again and again and again

[cmonstanley]

big u-turn on its way ,but is the answer to give the banks more money and start building houses this goverment are clueless,and i see the tory policy of cutting immigration is working a treat not.as they give more billions to private equity firms to line there mates pockets.they are wasting more money than labour ever could Bounty hunters from private firms paid £40m to track down illegal immigrants | Mail Online capita = private equity firm hedge fund profiteering.so the goverment sacks off thousands of staff costing them double this ha ha you couldnt make it up.there pals are exempt from anything, just put down you are a business man and your in lol UK Border Agency | Exempt (EXM)

[Boeing Guy]

Houseboy, yes I am a capitalist and therefore right wing, unfortunately that means you and others on here believe that to be a blue through and through.
I watched the last Labour government act just like their predecessor. In some ways worse, the off the balance sheets PFI deals Gordon and Tony made with their new best friends the Bankers. Plunging our health service, schools etc into massive debts and creating a time bomb of debt for years to come.
Let's face it Gordon Brown in the first term, blew away £2 billion pounds by selling over half of our Gold Reserves when the market was at a all time low.
Very shrewd.
So are the current lot any better?
Who knows, we will only find out in years to come.
Personally I feel that all politicians should be taken outside and .......

[cmonstanley]

2 billion pounds is chicken feed compared to the billions of pounds this goverment has wasted in 3 years just for ideology.public spending down private spending up.how many private firms have benefited from prisons,welfare and other public services.how many of these firms are hedge fund funded and do it on the cheap just for a dividend for their shareholders .

[cmonstanley]

whether labour or tory this kind of public service outsourcing is wrong. how many billions has it cost the country just look at the network rail debacle which saw the shareholder give billions so they could stay in profit.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

2 billion pounds is chicken feed compared to the billions of pounds this goverment has wasted in 3 years just for ideology.public spending down private spending up.how many private firms have benefited from prisons,welfare and other public services.how many of these firms are hedge fund funded and do it on the cheap just for a dividend for their shareholders .

Do you reckon anybody actually bothers to read the garbled, gibbering, punctuation-free drivel you continually inflict on this forum?

[Boeing Guy]

C'mon, I have tried and failed to have a meaningful discussion with you. I have said all I have to say on this.

[cmonstanley]

why because you have lost the debate.private firms dont give the best value for money to the public purse in fact it has cost the country billions just for ideology. name one public service that has benefited from out sourcing i.e. saved money and put money back into the infrastructure of the public service.

[cmonstanley]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Do you reckon anybody actually bothers to read the garbled, gibbering, punctuation-free drivel you continually inflict on this forum?

lol