The Tories - Page 251

Margaret Pilkington · 03-02-2014, 16:52

So does he qualify for the title 'Champagne Socialist'?.......he certainly doesn't fit the criteria of a working man...well, not the one that I recognise anyway.
It is a bit of a slap in the face for RMT members..they lose money while he lives it up and suns his bum in foreign parts. Great stuff this equality.

cmonstanley · 03-02-2014, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

When you're still living in a council house £145,000/year goes a long way.

Sensible of him to arrange the strike to happen while he's on holiday, it won't affect his travelling.

i agree with you

if he is on £145,000 a year he should not be in a council house .

Accyexplorer · 04-02-2014, 15:45

Tories colour is blue but their hearts will always be black.

Paul Routledge on Iain Duncan Smith's planned pensioner cuts: Tories' colour is blue but their hearts will always be black - Paul Routledge - Mirror Online

Gordon Booth · 04-02-2014, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Tories colour is blue but their hearts will always be black.

Paul Routledge on Iain Duncan Smith's planned pensioner cuts: Tories' colour is blue but their hearts will always be black - Paul Routledge - Mirror Online

'The details are fuzzy'. 'The direction of travel is plain'. 'Prime targets are winter fuel allowances,free TV licences, old folks' bus passes'.

That may be Routledges' opinion but can you tell me where and when IDS actually said any of it?

Opinions are one thing but give us the facts.

cashman · 04-02-2014, 16:10

Well if he didn't say it Gordon, it seems very easy to me these days to get a retraction/apology,along wi a good few quid compen, or does that fact not occur to yeh?

Margaret Pilkington · 04-02-2014, 17:23

All these people can second guess all they like about what certain politicians will do.
The parties all know that those who are of pension age are the ones who put the cross in the box.....where other sections of society don't bother.
I will worry about what is going to be withdrawn when we have confirmed proof of it.

I get a bit fed up of people thinking that anyone is giving the pensioners something for nothing. I pay for my bus pass with my taxes.....and my winter heating allowance. I get nothing else from the government.

What is more if all the pensioners were paid enough to live on then we could pay our own bus fares. The pension isn't a benefit, I paid my contributions all my working life....I paid taxes all my working life....I still pay tax on my pension.....and if I relied on state pension alone I would have starved to death long before now.
I am just glad I had the presence of mind to make other arrangements for my latter years.

Gordon Booth · 04-02-2014, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Well if he didn't say it Gordon, it seems very easy to me these days to get a retraction/apology,along wi a good few quid compen, or does that fact not occur to yeh?

That's my point, cashman. Routledge didn't say IDH said any of it so nothing to sue over.

He suggested, he pointed, he hinted, he gave his unbiased(?) opinion. No facts, no quotes.
I just want the facts, that's what newspapers are for-to report the facts( even the Mirror).

cmonstanley · 04-02-2014, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

All these people can second guess all they like about what certain politicians will do.
The parties all know that those who are of pension age are the ones who put the cross in the box.....where other sections of society don't bother.
I will worry about what is going to be withdrawn when we have confirmed proof of it.

I get a bit fed up of people thinking that anyone is giving the pensioners something for nothing. I pay for my bus pass with my taxes.....and my winter heating allowance. I get nothing else from the government.

What is more if all the pensioners were paid enough to live on then we could pay our own bus fares. The pension isn't a benefit, I paid my contributions all my working life....I paid taxes all my working life....I still pay tax on my pension.....and if I relied on state pension alone I would have starved to death long before now.
I am just glad I had the presence of mind to make other arrangements for my latter years.

there has been proof when asked these questions he has always answered not at the present moment. when im pension aged there will be no state pension in fact i will be 70 or dead thats the way its going.

Margaret Pilkington · 04-02-2014, 20:10

Well then why do folks keep bringing up the possibility that these payments will be removed?
It is discussed like it is a foregone conclusion, ah, but then we all know that if a politicians lips are moving he must be lying...so the fact that someone has said 'not at the moment' gives me no great comfort.

It costs less to give us the passes and the heating allowance than it does to give pensioners a pension that they can live off.
Britains pensions are the poorest in Europe.
If you really do feel that you will have no pension by the time you retire then it is up to you to do something about that. I cannot see how they can do away with an entitlement that you have paid for.

cashman · 04-02-2014, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

That's my point, cashman. Routledge didn't say IDH said any of it so nothing to sue over.

He suggested, he pointed, he hinted, he gave his unbiased(?) opinion. No facts, no quotes.
I just want the facts, that's what newspapers are for-to report the facts( even the Mirror).

Mr Duncan Smith whose flagship Universal Credit Policy is in chaos, SAID the government was discussing whether to put OAP payments into a wider Whitehall Cap on welfare spending. He revealed yesterday "We need maximum flexibility with the cap. "Pretty much all existing ring fences will have to disappear................ Do yeh not understand that statement Gordon?

Gordon Booth · 04-02-2014, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Mr Duncan Smith whose flagship Universal Credit Policy is in chaos, SAID the government was discussing whether to put OAP payments into a wider Whitehall Cap on welfare spending. He revealed yesterday "We need maximum flexibility with the cap. "Pretty much all existing ring fences will have to disappear................ Do yeh not understand that statement Gordon?

Yes I think I do, cashman.
That's all I was asking. What did he actually say? I couldn't find it, you have. I don't think Accyexplorer did either.

cashman · 04-02-2014, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Yes I think I do, cashman.
That's all I was asking. What did he actually say? I couldn't find it, you have. I don't think Accyexplorer did either.

Its in front of me in todays Mirror.

Dunno if its in the link he put on never looked at that. Just had a quick read of internet link posted, Much of whats in the real paper is missing, nowt new wi that.

Gordon Booth · 04-02-2014, 21:19

The frightening thought is( Margaret will blow a blood vessel at this ) there is no money in the OAP bank, there never was. Our NI, our taxes, were never our savings for our pensions, they paid for the pensions of those already retired and went in the general spending pot. Our pensions are paid for by those still working and those who have enough pension to still pay tax.

So the politicians can(and probably will) say in the future-' There's not enough going into the current account to pay out what you're trying to draw.Tough'.

Cameron said pensions, winter payments, bus passes were ring fenced. Yes but that was 'yesterday'. As Scarlett said 'Tomorrow is another day'. And politicians have short, selective memories.

cashman · 04-02-2014, 21:30

That i can agree wi Gordon, nowt is what it seems, The road tax we pay has NEVER all been re-invested in our roads, More cars than ever on our roads, more road tax revenue, WORSE roads than ever.

Have heard the excuse trotted out "More traffic, more wear @ Tear" feeble but folk fall fer it.

Margaret Pilkington · 04-02-2014, 21:48

Well, however you look at it, there is enough to pay huge sums to despots in foreign countries, there is enough to pay into the corrupt EU, there is enough to give hand outs to India and China, both of whom have burgeoning economies....and space programs.
Priorities need to be got in the right order.
If the tax loopholes were closed, and there was as much diligence tracking down the fat cats to pay their share, then the country would be able to afford to allocate pensions that ensure the pensioner does not need the heating allowance and the bus pass.

I have always preferred to pay my own way anyway......the bus pass ensures that those on limited incomes are not socially isolated(which is a health risk) and it benefits the economy of the places they visit.

I am sure that I heard on the news today that those who,received PPI payments have done more to help the economy because they have spent this money(which they see as a windfall) on goods and services.
More money in the system means more money spent, giving the economy a boost.