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-   -   Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew? (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/anyone-made-a-secret-freedom-of-info-request-about-me-andrew-45563.html)

BERNADETTE 14-02-2009 23:08
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Well I have read this thread from the beginning and it is obvious to me that it is just an excuse to try and have a go at PB, if this is how council meetings go ie "you said this you did that", is it any wonder things are so bad?
In fact I would go as far as to say it really was not a subject for GC but that is just my opinion. Makes me wonder if all requests for FIO are to be made public? To my mind this should have been conducted in private, there was no need to create a thread here.

cashman 14-02-2009 23:11
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
ya gotta be kidding bernie,this is up fer thread of the year.:confused::D

turkishdelight 14-02-2009 23:15
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 680269)
ya gotta be kidding bernie,this is up fer thread of the year.:confused::D
Your correct nice to know you janet.

turkishdelight 14-02-2009 23:15
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 680269)
ya gotta be kidding bernie,this is up fer thread of the year.:confused::D
Your correct nice to have met you Janet.

g jones 14-02-2009 23:17
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680262)
Although i admit not to being an expert on politics i will try to answer your question as honestly as i am able firstly the state of the N.H.S. the economic crisis, crime rates all the cut backs people have never been so dissatisfied with a labour government i believe after voting labour all my life its time for change and really have confidence in DAVID CAMERON as do many others.
Crime Rates; They are down 20% this year (The Tories advertise this as their success). They were down 20% last year. Are you aware you are being misled?

Against our comparative group of 15 areas (all East Lancs ex RV + nationwide) we are now have the lowest crime rate amongst this group (and falling).

The lowest reported crime that is. The highest solved crime rate as well at 40%.I think NuLab are the ONLY government post war to actually cut crime.

David Cameron
1. Says he'll cut cash to Hyndburn.
2. Says he wants poor people to be able to afford houses by cutting back on insulation and build quality
3. Says he wants Georgia to join NATO till someone pointed out that would mean we are obliged to go to war with Russia to defend Georgian sovereignty. cameron decided to go out and promise Georgian's that before British diplomats form the Government got out there to deal with the situation.
4. Said the banks were too heavily regulated and need more freedoms. Now doesn't know whether to support nationalisation or not.
5. Is opposed to Nuclear Power yet has no solution to stop the lights going out. Will end up doubling Britain's 48m tonnes of imported (dirty) Russian coal to keep the lights on.

garinda 14-02-2009 23:17
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680219)
Well theres those as well i have come across them but no labour voters
Well if there's a General Election tomorrow I'll be voting for Greg Pope, who happens to be a Labour M.P.

There's much I disagree with what this government have done, but since 1997 they've also done some good things, such as the introduction of the minimum wage, and changed some antiquated discrimatory laws, and in my opinion have at least strived to bring about equality for those who need it most in our society.

I'm not a member of the Labout party, nor have I always voted Labour, though I have always voted.

For me Greg Pope is the best possible M.P. for Hyndburn at this moment in time.

There is no way on God's Earth I could possibly vote for the twice selected, and thankfully twice rejected, Conservative candidate Peter Britciffe, if they decide to field him once again.

His ludicrous attempts to waste public money by blindly pushing his egotistical schemes in Hyndburn are quite frankly frightening.

The arrogant but dim attitude of the local Conservative party, as well as the unworldy toffs in charge of the national Conservative party, are the two main reasons I won't be voting Conservative in the near future.

garinda 14-02-2009 23:25
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 679677)
Point taken, and I'll try to clarify what I meant.

To me it seems apparent that some good voices are being silenced in Hyndburn. We've been given examples in this thread where members of the public have tried to ask questions at public meetings, and they have been quashed, and dismissed as being 'rude'. (I'll try to resist a kettle/black comment here.)

From other posts on Accy Web there is evidence that councillors are being sidelined and ignored, because they aren't in the inner sanctum of the cabinet.

I've said recently in another thread that Cllr. Britcliffe is a very good councillor for his ward, and obviously the people who kept him elected for twenty six years think the same.

Sadly we have a system whereby the party who polls the most councillors forms the ruling body of the council, and then they decide who the leader will be, and that's democratically fair.

However we end up with a council leader, in a very powerful position, who wasn't elected to that position by the people of the borough as a whole.

I know that is the system we have, and there is little chance of it being changed, and the same criticism could also be levelled at national level, in that we vote for an M.P., but then have a P.M. foisted on us by the party who secured the most seats.

In Hyndburn I do think we have a council leader whose egotism clouds the issue when it comes to what is best for the borough. There have been many ludicrous, costly schemes, his pet projects, which thankfully have been shelved.

Again I feel like I'm repeating myself, but if I thought the leadership of H.B.C. was good, you'd certainly hear no complaints from me.

Living in Labour controlled Lambeth was hell, and I paid the highest Poll Tax in the land for the privilege. On the other hand when I moved to the neighbouring borough of Conservative Wandsworth, we paid the lowest Poll then Council Tax in England, and were served by a fantastic council. Similarly Labour controlled Glasgow City Council provided it's residents with excellent services, and value for money. So I do feel able to make comparisons.

To me the issue isn't party politics, it's about competence, and happily, unlike councillors who aren't part of the inner circle at H.B.C., and people at public meetings who dare to voice their opinions and questions, I can't be silenced, and this forum lets me, as well as everyone else, have their voice heard.
You accuse Claytonender of 'stooping low' yet I've highlighted the same issues she mentioned in the post I've quoted above, and yet you make no comment, or accuse me of 'stooping so low'.

Is it because I'm not a member of any political party, and see the same things from an independent point of view, which means you then can't blindly attack Labour?

Which quite frankly is becoming a bit of a yawn, and as boring as the blinkerd views Mancie spouts on here when he's drunk.

Caz 14-02-2009 23:27
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 680267)
Well I have read this thread from the beginning and it is obvious to me that it is just an excuse to try and have a go at PB, if this is how council meetings go ie "you said this you did that", is it any wonder things are so bad?
In fact I would go as far as to say it really was not a subject for GC but that is just my opinion. Makes me wonder if all requests for FIO are to be made public? To my mind this should have been conducted in private, there was no need to create a thread here.
If a person makes a request through the FOI I see no reason why it should not be made public. I also see no reason why people should be able to make requests anonomously, but they can. Makes a mockery of the whole thing in my mind, as people can have ulterior motives. As for having a go at PB, where does it say we are all labour voters? And if they want to have a go at PB, so B..... what. He is here to represent us supposedly.

cashman 14-02-2009 23:27
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
even Greg Pope is a member on here n comes on when time allows, he certainly aint afraid to face the public.:) conservative councillors where are you?:D

turkishdelight 14-02-2009 23:30
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 680275)
Crime Rates; They are down 20% this year (The Tories advertise this as their success). They were down 20% last year. Are you aware you are being misled?

Against our comparative group of 15 areas (all East Lancs ex RV + nationwide) we are now have the lowest crime rate amongst this group (and falling).

The lowest reported crime that is. The highest solved crime rate as well at 40%.I think NuLab are the ONLY government post war to actually cut crime.

David Cameron
1. Says he'll cut cash to Hyndburn.
2. Says he wants poor people to be able to afford houses by cutting back on insulation and build quality
3. Says he wants Georgia to join NATO till someone pointed out that would mean we are obliged to go to war with Russia to defend Georgian sovereignty. cameron decided to go out and promise Georgian's that before British diplomats form the Government got out there to deal with the situation.
4. Said the banks were too heavily regulated and need more freedoms. Now doesn't know whether to support nationalisation or not.
5. Is opposed to Nuclear Power yet has no solution to stop the lights going out. Will end up doubling Britain's 48m tonnes of imported (dirty) Russian coal to keep the lights on.
In reply watch this space in terms of crime rates health related issues just how they will esculate now under this government these are my real concerns also how the economic climate will have a major impact on all root cause labour government indeed its time for change

Caz 14-02-2009 23:34
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680282)
In reply watch this space in terms of crime rates health related issues just how they will esculate now under this government these are my real concerns also how the economic climate will have a major impact on all root cause labour government indeed its time for change

So what do you think a tory government will do on these issues? In reality, not just speil when they are in opposition?

BERNADETTE 14-02-2009 23:36
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz (Post 680280)
If a person makes a request through the FOI I see no reason why it should not be made public. I also see no reason why people should be able to make requests anonomously, but they can. Makes a mockery of the whole thing in my mind, as people can have ulterior motives. As for having a go at PB, where does it say we are all labour voters? And if they want to have a go at PB, so B..... what. He is here to represent us supposedly.
I have no problem with things being made public but in this case it was just done in a dummy thrown out of the pram way IMO. Why did Andrew ask for the info? Only he can answer that but then again he did. He said it was for a uni project and who are we to disbelieve him? Seems to me if he had asked for it anonomously this thread would not exist. It just seems to me that the majority of councillors that post on here are only out to have a pop all the time. If PB was such a bad councillor would he have retained power in his ward for so long?

Caz 14-02-2009 23:39
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 680284)
I have no problem with things being made public but in this case it was just done in a dummy thrown out of the pram way IMO. Why did Andrew ask for the info? Only he can answer that but then again he did. He said it was for a uni project and who are we to disbelieve him? Seems to me if he had asked for it anonomously this thread would not exist. It just seems to me that the majority of councillors that post on here are only out to have a pop all the time. If PB was such a bad councillor would he have retained power in his ward for so long?

He said it was for a uni project, so why didn't he request info on all councillors, not just Labour

Answer to PB still being in power? Apathetic constituents, just like turkish delight

garinda 14-02-2009 23:40
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Well I've read this thread from begining to end as well, and the main conclusion is that Labour in Hyndburn is certainly more of an open book, both in what they publicly say, and also because they are willing to be questioned here on a public forum.

The invisibility of councillors from other parties, prepared to debate issues the general public care about, is very telling.

They obviously haven't got the bottle, and/or the confidence to attemp it.

Instead we are left with those on the periphery to pass on their thoughts. The 'I rarely speak to him' and the 'I've spoken to him on the phone, but haven't seen him in person since May' brigade.

cashman 14-02-2009 23:40
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680282)
In reply watch this space in terms of crime rates health related issues just how they will esculate now under this government these are my real concerns also how the economic climate will have a major impact on all root cause labour government indeed its time for change
why have ya insider knowledge?:D crime rates are down,under this government fact, so where are they going to escalate?:confused: if they were rising sharply i would agree on this ya got me baffled.

turkishdelight 14-02-2009 23:46
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz (Post 680285)
He said it was for a uni project, so why didn't he request info on all councillors, not just Labour

Answer to PB still being in power? Apathetic constituents, just like turkish delight
He did request info on all councillors.

garinda 14-02-2009 23:46
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
As for the past history of politics, that it can't be forgotton, is bunkum.

Workhouses for the poor, people dieing because they couldn't afford to call a doctor, no education for those who couldn't afford it, wages so low there was no way out of a life of poverty, versus a National Health Service, a State education, a minimum wage, rights in law to protect workers from exploitation.

The past can't be forgotton, because tomorrow it might return.

BERNADETTE 14-02-2009 23:50
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz (Post 680285)
He said it was for a uni project, so why didn't he request info on all councillors, not just Labour

Answer to PB still being in power? Apathetic constituents, just like turkish delight
Andrew stated earlier in the thread that he had asked for accounts of ALL councillors spending.

I think a lot of PB's constituents would be insulted by that comment but hey ho if you know better than them about who will best represent their needs.

turkishdelight 14-02-2009 23:50
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680289)
As for the past history of politics, that it can't be forgotton, is bunkum.

Workhouses for the poor, people dieing because they couldn't afford to call a doctor, no education for those who couldn't afford it, wages so low there was no way out of a life of poverty, versus a National Health Service, a State education, a minimum wage, rights in law to protect workers from exploitation.

The past can't be forgotton, because tomorrow it might return.
Yes thats how labour used to be no argument with that the reason i always voted for them however its no longer the same.

garinda 14-02-2009 23:54
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680291)
Yes thats how labour used to be no argument with that the reason i always voted for them however its no longer the same.
To a point I agree, but faced with the opposition they still have a better stab at making a society that isn't purely driven by money.

They make mistakes, but do seem to care about those less fortunate in our society, and also believe in equality, more so than the other political parties.

turkishdelight 14-02-2009 23:54
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680291)
Yes thats how labour used to be no argument with that the reason i always voted for them however its no longer the same.
Read the statement you wrote thats just described how people are now suffering under this government.

Caz 14-02-2009 23:56
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 680290)
Andrew stated earlier in the thread that he had asked for accounts of ALL councillors spending.

I think a lot of PB's constituents would be insulted by that comment but hey ho if you know better than them about who will best represent their needs.
Apoloogies for that one, now I have read the entire thread through, I blame distraction tactics by people who have nothing other than personal insults to make, but I'm sure Andrew's motives must have been entirely admirable. :rolleyes:

PBs constiuents would be insulted by what comment?

garinda 15-02-2009 00:01
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 680290)
Andrew stated earlier in the thread that he had asked for accounts of ALL councillors spending.

I think a lot of PB's constituents would be insulted by that comment but hey ho if you know better than them about who will best represent their needs.
He was elected by the residents of one ward in Hyndburn, St. Andrews.

(My ward. :eek:)

He has twice stood as a candiidate to represent the people of Hyndburn as a whole, as a Member of Parliament, and twice you've rejected him.

(I say you, as I wasn't back living in Hyndburn then.)

Caz 15-02-2009 00:03
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Nowhere does it say I am blaming PB or his tory constituents for the non voters Bernadette...:D

BERNADETTE 15-02-2009 00:04
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz (Post 680295)
Apoloogies for that one, now I have read the entire thread through, but I'm sure his motives must have been entirely admirable. :rolleyes:

PBs constiuents would be insulted by what comment?
Maybe Andrews motives were not entirely admirable, only he can know the answer to that.:)

Your comment about them being apathetic constituents would surely insult a lot of PB's constituents surely? I am sure they are quite able to judge who will best represent them and take care of the interests in their ward much the same as you and I can do. Doesn't appear to me that PB is doing such a bad job according to them

Caz 15-02-2009 00:06
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 680298)
Maybe Andrews motives were not entirely admirable, only he can know the answer to that.:)

Your comment about them being apathetic constituents would surely insult a lot of PB's constituents surely? I am sure they are quite able to judge who will best represent them and take care of the interests in their ward much the same as you and I can do. Doesn't appear to me that PB is doing such a bad job according to them
Why? I'm talking about non voters, how does that compute?

Quote:
Maybe Andrews motives were not entirely admirable, only he can know the answer to that.
Exactly, and you don't know the answer either do you?

garinda 15-02-2009 00:07
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Lol, I quickly Googled 'St. Andrews ward' to see if it had an apostrophe in it, when I came across this site, and this quote....


'Our erstwhile MP wonders and worries about his Conservative opposition at the General Election.

He needn’t! He will have opposition and believe me, whoever it is will be tough opposition.

The one thing for certain is that if I were fortunate enough to represent the Conservatives, following the extra pounds I put on during the summer holidays it would certainly be a “heavyweight contest”.

However, the way he and his Government have carried on recently, it wouldn’t surprise me if whoever his opponent is, he will find he suffers a knockout!'

Councillor Peter Britcliffe

What was I saying about not forgetting about the horrors of the political past?:rolleyes:

cashman 15-02-2009 00:09
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
from what ive read..... in his own ward bernie, NOT Hyndburn as a whole, theres a world of difference.:)

garinda 15-02-2009 00:09
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680300)
Lol, I quickly Googled 'St. Andrews ward' to see if it had an apostrophe in it, when I came across this site, and this quote....


'Our erstwhile MP wonders and worries about his Conservative opposition at the General Election.

He needn’t! He will have opposition and believe me, whoever it is will be tough opposition.

The one thing for certain is that if I were fortunate enough to represent the Conservatives, following the extra pounds I put on during the summer holidays it would certainly be a “heavyweight contest”.

However, the way he and his Government have carried on recently, it wouldn’t surprise me if whoever his opponent is, he will find he suffers a knockout!'

Councillor Peter Britcliffe

What was I saying about not forgetting about the horrors of the political past?:rolleyes:
There's some lovely pictures to look at on the site, by the way.

They'd make an absolutely beautiful calendar.

BERNADETTE 15-02-2009 00:10
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz (Post 680299)
Why? I'm talking about non voters, how does that compute?



Exactly, and you don't know the answer either do you?
No knew I should have ignored this thread:o But at the end of the day was it really necessary for it to be started? Surely this could all have been done by PM's:)

BERNADETTE 15-02-2009 00:13
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 680301)
from what ive read..... in his own ward bernie, NOT Hyndburn as a whole, theres a world of difference.:)
I accept that Cashy but if his constituents keep voting him in and the Torys get a majority vote it looks like he will continue to be leader of the council:)

Caz 15-02-2009 00:14
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Why should it be done by PM? Andrew didn't email all councillors and say he was doing a Uni project, for what ever reason did he? He is the reason behind this thread. To my mind an open representative is the one I would go for anyday. And I see no reason why accywebbers shouldn't be privvy to these goings on

garinda 15-02-2009 00:18
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 680303)
No knew I should have ignored this thread:o But at the end of the day was it really necessary for it to be started? Surely this could all have been done by PM's:)

I think because the recent stories about some Conservative councillors voting to award themselves more than was recommended than by an independent body, Graham had every right to make Andrew's request for information public, and for us to ask as to his motives for doing so.

If he was hoping to discover some dirt, and provide a smoke screen to deflect away from the real story of some councillor's greed, it doesn't seem to have been very successful so far.

I'm sure he wouldn't have had as much time to post in this thread if he'd discovered some juicy scandal to tell us all.

BERNADETTE 15-02-2009 00:20
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz (Post 680305)
Why should it be done by PM? Andrew didn't email all councillors and say he was doing a Uni project, for what ever reason did he? He is the reason behind this thread. To my mind an open representative is the one I would go for anyday. And I see no reason why accywebbers shouldn't be privvy to these goings on
Well I will agree to disagree on the reason for this thead, to me it is just paranoia on Grahams part IMHO. If he had asked via PM maybe Andrew would have told him straight off. The whole reason for FOI is lost if the end result is going to be like this.

By the way would be great to see some of our councillors joining in with other topics:)

cashman 15-02-2009 00:23
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680306)
I think because the recent stories about some Conservative councillors voting to award themselves more than was recommended than by an independent body, Graham had every right to make Andrew's request for information public, and for us to ask as to his motives for doing so.

If he was hoping to discover some dirt, and provide a smoke screen to deflect away from the real story of some councillor's greed, it doesn't seem to have been very successful so far.

I'm sure he wouldn't have had as much time to post in this thread if he'd discovered some juicy scandal to tell us all.
i think it may have deflected that very issue, the awards above the bodys recommendation seems to be fading into obscurity. maybe he's cleverer than i gave him credit?

garinda 15-02-2009 00:28
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 680308)
i think it may have deflected that very issue, the awards above the bodys recommendation seems to be fading into obscurity. maybe he's cleverer than i gave him credit?
Nah, let him have his fun.

I haven't finished yet.;)

garinda 15-02-2009 00:34
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 680308)
i think it may have deflected that very issue, the awards above the bodys recommendation seems to be fading into obscurity. maybe he's cleverer than i gave him credit?

...and besides even this thread has allowed some people to be seen as fairly straightforward, open, and honest, whilst others have come across as sneaky, sly, and more than a little obsessive.

Although slightly more rambling, this thread reminds me a little of your thread last week, about the furtive Tory stooge who tried to cover Cameron's back, after his gaffe about Titian.

cashman 15-02-2009 00:45
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680310)
...and besides even this thread has allowed some people to be seen as fairly straightforward, open, and honest, whilst others have come across as sneaky, sly, and more than a little obsessive.

Although slightly more rambling, this thread reminds me a little of your thread last week, about the furtive Tory stooge who tried to cover Cameron's back, after his gaffe about Titian.
it reminds me a lot actually.:rofl38:;) the abscence from one to the prescence on another,:rolleyes:

SPUGGIE J 15-02-2009 06:28
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
I was looking for a sat nav to get round the thread and still will end up lost!!!!! This was a thread that tortured me!!

claytonender 15-02-2009 07:15
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Posted via Mobile Device
At the 2 general elections (1997 and 2001) at which Peter Britcliffe was the Tory candidate it was very interesting at the count watching the ballot boxes for the Oswaldtwistle wards being opened. It was very obvious that the majority of voted cast in Oswaldtwistle were not for Peter.

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 09:50
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Andrew as a concerned Hyndburn resident regarding the labour government i asked the question last night on here why would anyone vote labour? In response i was given two in-depth views and also some factual information from two labour councillors. I pose the same question to you why should people vote conservative? would appreciate a response to enable me to make a comparative in-formed view to me its clearly obvious in these very worrying social and economic times my concerns are crime rates divorce rates health and mental health disorders drug and alcohol problems will increase and have a major impact on families and are current economic crisis i feel this is only the beginning under this government and there is indeed a real need for change correct me if im wrong.Its a sad state of affairs in the 21st century people have to choose between eating and heating.

jaysay 15-02-2009 10:04
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Well be quite honest when I've just logged on his morning and seen the activity overnight, I've decided there is more to Sunday morning than wading through 10 or 12 pages of prattle. Councillor Jones keeps say its a rotten Tory Council, and the he would lead a GREAT LABOUR council, I have two thoughts 1/ self praise has never been a recommendation and 2/ I'm more interested in what the Audit commission say, the council watchdog with no point scoring one way or the other, and their assessment was last year HBC was performing well, far better than when they took over from the last great labour council

andrewb 15-02-2009 10:08
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 680236)
I can tell you why I vote Labour - I remember the damage that apology for a 'woman' Maggie Thatcher (the milk snatcher) did to the ordinary working man and woman of this country. How she said 'there is no such thing society' and set out to try and break the spirit of hard working people, consigning so many to the scrap heap. Selling off all the utility companies, the railways, British Telecom, closing all the coal mines (when we had 600 years of coal left in them). Attempting to break the trade unions, decimating our industries, ending apprenticeships and brining in YTS (slave labour for 16 and 17 year olds. who were then consigned to the scrapheap, because there was a fresh supply of 16 year olds to fill their places). Allowing building societies to become banks, and loosening the financial control on them. Unfortunately we will have to live with the consequences of her incompetence for years to come.

Cameron is in just the same mould - last year he questioned why anyone would live in the North (maybe he would like us all to commit hari-kari). Over the past few years we have had millions of pounds of LABOUR government money, ploughed into Hyndburn for regeneration via Elevate, in 2009/10 there will be another £8.3 million pound to help to regenerate West Accrington. Cameron has said he will withdraw this funding - leaving East Lancashire to its fate (after all he doesn't think anyone should live in the North). As well as the regeneration money, there is money from LEGI and I am sure Graham will tell you all the other LABOUR government money that we receive in Hyndburn.

I am sure that the Tories would not be coping any better with the current economic crisis - they would probably be making sure the rich were looked after but it would be 'devil take the hindmost', after all the ordinary working person is expendable.

Are these enough reasons to let you know why I am proud to be a member of the Labour Party and a priveleged to be a member of the Labour Group on Hyndburn Borough Council.
Maggie? Maggie? Maggie is the reason you want Councillor Jones, in 2009, to be your leader?

He didn't think anyone should live in the north? Where's this rubbish from? You're unbelievable with you're misleading scare mongering. It's not even election year!

The Tories didn't REMOVE the regulation in 1998. They voted AGAINST this. They saw what would happen. Up till 1998 banks lent what they had in their coffers, from when Gordon Brown REMOVED regulation, until now, the difference between what banks had in their coffers and what they lent came to £700billion!

Proud member of the Labour party?

  • Proud of Gordon Brown raiding the pension funds.
  • Proud of Gordon Brown selling gold at $275 an ounce when it was worth $1000. Everyone can see it's MADNESS.
  • Proud of being the worst positioned country in the industrialised world to deal with the credit crunch.
  • Proud of burdening every new born child with £17,000 of debt.
  • Proud of increasing the poorest earners income tax by 100%
  • Proud of falling education rates, proud of dropping from 8th in the world at Maths when Labour got in, to 28th
  • Proud of pumping money in to the NHS, but WASTING it.
  • Proud of not knowing how to spend the money they have pumped into the public sector, WASTING it.
  • Proud of misleading the people of Hyndburn time and time again.

To be frank, the politics of Hyndburn makes me sick. I am absolutely shocked at the way Labour councillors come on here, and spread their misleading information. Even right through this thread, from the first post here, you can see the vile rumours they wish to circulate. They are absolutely determined to use every method in their power, do anything they can, to trip up the Tories, to gain control of the borough. They don't care who they mislead, even if its the people they want to represent. An opposition that does this, is not ready to lead. The people of Hyndburn have no alternative. The financial incontinance within Labour is absolutely shocking.

Some people fire away at Conservative wastes. That's true. They're not wrong. The Conservatives however, are a damn lot more competent than Labour as can be seen. It was only last year that Graham Jones, the man who wants to manage your multi million pound budget was learning percentages. It was only the last time Labour got hold of power that we had a multi million pound DEFICIT. We now have multimillion pound reserves, and a healthy council pumping money into additional areas as of this next budget, voted excellent by the audit commission.

I would give up, but I cannot stand to see the people of Hyndburn be conned. If you want to get democratically elected, want to help this borough. Stop tripping the Tories up. This thread is just another example of trying to attack the Tories, on the thin alignment that I have voted Conservative. Work for the borough. Stop treating people like fools! Luckily I can follow the council as part of my degree, not everyone has the same luxury of being informed. You have such small amounts of time to get your information across. Don't mislead them with erroneous headlines. Stop your leaders bare hatred of Conservatives, from blurring his judgement.

claytonender 15-02-2009 10:36
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680365)
Some people fire away at Conservative wastes. That's true. They're not wrong. The Conservatives however, are a damn lot more competent than Labour as can be seen. It was only last year that Graham Jones, the man who wants to manage your multi million pound budget was learning percentages. It was only the last time Labour got hold of power that we had a multi million pound DEFICIT. We now have multimillion pound reserves, and a healthy council pumping money into additional areas as of this next budget, voted excellent by the audit commission.

I would give up, but I cannot stand to see the people of Hyndburn be conned. If you want to get democratically elected, want to help this borough. Stop tripping the Tories up. This thread is just another example of trying to attack the Tories, on the thin alignment that I have voted Conservative. Work for the borough. Stop treating people like fools! Luckily I can follow the council as part of my degree, not everyone has the same luxury of being informed. You have such small amounts of time to get your information across. Don't mislead them with erroneous headlines. Stop your leaders bare hatred of Conservatives, from blurring his judgement.
Andrew have you any proof that it was the last Labour administration (which was in power from May 2002 to May 2003) that accumulated the debt, or are you taking Peter's word for it. What happened between 1999 and May 2002?

I could give you a long list of what the Labour government has done to benefit the people of this country but really can't be bothered.

Why are you not asking questions about the losses that the Leisure Services are making?

Graham is speaking the truth when he says the current administration of Hyndburn Council is 'not fit for purpose'. They are ignoring lots of problems - have excluded certain areas of the borough (such as Church Kirk) from the re generation money. I have seen the minutes of the Housing Market Renewal panel - which showed all the areas that met the criterion for Elevate money, and know which areas were excluded. Peter Britcliffe claimed at the last Council meeting that Elevate specified which areas the money had to be spent in and that Hyndburn Council had no say in the matter. That is all smoke and mirrors - Elevate specified the areas within Hyndburn that were elegilble for re generation money but the Tory administration choose which of these areas to spend the money in.

What about the minibuses with potentially unsafe second hand rear seats? Other authorities insisted that the minibuses passed a very rigourous test immediately, but Peter Britcliffe allowed them 6 months to satisfy the safety test. How would you feel if you where (or more importantly your child or grandchild - as many are used for schoolruns) in a minibus and were unsure if it was safe? If there is a serious accident - will Hyndburn then be prosecuted under the Corporate Manslaughter legislation.

I could go on and on but maybe I have given you some more reasons to request FOI on same very serious subjects.

Incidentally your mother seems to have suddenly developed some political ideas in just a few hours - remarkable.

garinda 15-02-2009 10:42
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
How can the 'Tories be tripped up' on here, when they don't have the courage of their convictions to join the public debate?

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 10:50
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 680383)
Andrew have you any proof that it was the last Labour administration (which was in power from May 2002 to May 2003) that accumulated the debt, or are you taking Peter's word for it. What happened between 1999 and May 2002?

I could give you a long list of what the Labour government has done to benefit the people of this country but really can't be bothered.

Why are you not asking questions about the losses that the Leisure Services are making?

Graham is speaking the truth when he says the current administration of Hyndburn Council is 'not fit for purpose'. They are ignoring lots of problems - have excluded certain areas of the borough (such as Church Kirk) from the re generation money. I have seen the minutes of the Housing Market Renewal panel - which showed all the areas that met the criterion for Elevate money, and know which areas were excluded. Peter Britcliffe claimed at the last Council meeting that Elevate specified which areas the money had to be spent in and that Hyndburn Council had no say in the matter. That is all smoke and mirrors - Elevate specified the areas within Hyndburn that were elegilble for re generation money but the Tory administration choose which of these areas to spend the money in.

What about the minibuses with potentially unsafe second hand rear seats? Other authorities insisted that the minibuses passed a very rigourous test immediately, but Peter Britcliffe allowed them 6 months to satisfy the safety test. How would you feel if you where (or more importantly your child or grandchild - as many are used for schoolruns) in a minibus and were unsure if it was safe? If there is a serious accident - will Hyndburn then be prosecuted under the Corporate Manslaughter legislation.

I could go on and on but maybe I have given you some more reasons to request FOI on same very serious subjects.

Incidentally your mother seems to have suddenly developed some political ideas in just a few hours - remarkable.
Yes i have i guess im finding out now just wants going on and it interests me i just may start to attend these council meetings and be aware of who my councillor is to be frank i never thought forgive me for my ignorance that the council had much power on issues but now i understand they have but i have always been more concerned with the national agenda where the real power is.I guess everyone has start somewhere.

lancsdave 15-02-2009 10:53
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680360)
Andrew as a concerned Hyndburn resident regarding the labour government i asked the question last night on here why would anyone vote labour? In response i was given two in-depth views and also some factual information from two labour councillors. I pose the same question to you why should people vote conservative? would appreciate a response to enable me to make a comparative in-formed view to me its clearly obvious in these very worrying social and economic times my concerns are crime rates divorce rates health and mental health disorders drug and alcohol problems will increase and have a major impact on families and are current economic crisis i feel this is only the beginning under this government and there is indeed a real need for change correct me if im wrong.Its a sad state of affairs in the 21st century people have to choose between eating and heating.

Good to see another attack on Labour was the priority over answering this post :D

blazey 15-02-2009 10:56
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 679038)
The Freedom of Information Act is a good piece of legislation that has come in recently.

I have nothing to hide to I am pleased to tell everyone on here that AndrewB, probably on instructions from Peter Britcliffe, is doing his own personal best to make sure that my reputation remains.

Andrew has tabled an FOI on my expenses. I could have told him personally if he had contacted me first but not to worry.

It was a seedy request because The Council has ALWAYS gone to the annual LGA Conference. 3 Tories and 2 Labour. For the last 5 years I have been once and turned it down 4 times. No-one knows (or would faintly remember) that except Peter Britcliffe.

Andrews FOI is not for the 4 years I did not go. It only asks for the year I did (with Jean Battle Labour and 3 Tories). How did you know which year to pick Andrew, I am impressed!!!!!!;) We were put in a reasonable hotel, the 3 Tories refused that one and booked in a much nicer, more expensive one. I remember myself and Jean having a laugh at how they just can't stop themselves. (BTW Ring Jean Battles no is the book - anyone can ring her)

It was 4 days. The LGA pass was £204.44 for delegates. The Hotel for 4 nights was £323.40. Nice try Andrew. The best bit is the food and travel allowance I claimed was £0. Come Andrew... you asked... now have the guts to tell everyone all about me !!!!

Andrew also did a FOI for something only Peter Britcliffe knows. Mobile tariffs...... I have a big Council Mobile Phone Bill £100 month combined..... and Andrew wants to tell you all about it first as Peter Britcliffe never knew how it happened, just it did.... (How did you know to ask that question Andrew??? - Devils dirty work perhaps - the black art of politics??)

What Andrew did not FOI was my mileage or carers allowance... Peter Britcliffe knows it it is £0.

The Tories have been furiously sending FOI to County Council etc.. to dish the dirt on someone else to cover up their own policies...

Some come on Andrew, how did you know where to fire the blank bullets and where not too?? Tell all the board members your reasons for doing it and why you excluded many aspects of allowances and only asked (or was told to ask) where I had ex's!!

.. I hope you're not on that Wikipedia still :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Pathetic. Can we now get on with making this Borough great.
To be fair it's completely ludicrous that we should have to request the information in the first place. It should be simply accessible without having to ask.

It should be a right to have access to this information, not a permission.

lancsdave 15-02-2009 10:58
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680365)
To be frank, the politics of Hyndburn makes me sick. I am absolutely shocked at the way Labour councillors come on here, and spread their misleading information.
It's very much an open forum, the right to reply is open to any other councillor of any political persuasion. Use your contacts and get them on here instead of you being the unofficial spokesman.

andrewb 15-02-2009 10:58
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680360)
Andrew as a concerned Hyndburn resident regarding the labour government i asked the question last night on here why would anyone vote labour? In response i was given two in-depth views and also some factual information from two labour councillors. I pose the same question to you why should people vote conservative? would appreciate a response to enable me to make a comparative in-formed view to me its clearly obvious in these very worrying social and economic times my concerns are crime rates divorce rates health and mental health disorders drug and alcohol problems will increase and have a major impact on families and are current economic crisis i feel this is only the beginning under this government and there is indeed a real need for change correct me if im wrong.Its a sad state of affairs in the 21st century people have to choose between eating and heating.
I can't say for definate that a Conservative government would lower divorce rates, but what I can say is at the moment the tax system benefits some couples to live apart. It's actually financially better for them to not live together. How wrong is that! The Conservatives would put an end to it.

Both the NHS and prisons, need to be better equipped to deal with the problems of mental health, and addictions, which I am sure will increase with the economic disaster we're experiencing. It's wrong to think that just throwing money at the NHS will help. That money has to be spent properly, on patients. Labour have failed to deliver on that. It's right that we should put more money into rehabilitating people addicted to drugs. That's the only way we're going to fix their problem. Simply locking them up, will ensure they'll be back on drugs causing crime whenever they're out.

Tougher sentencing for crime! If you carry a knife, you should be locked up. Plain and simple. If you carry a knife, you carry the intent to use it. If you had the worry of being locked behind bars for carrying the object, people would think twice.

Labour have ruined the economy. An end to 'boom and bust' we were told by Gordon Brown. It's fact that Gordon Brown's 1998 regulation tinkering effectively stopped regulation in its tracks, it's also fact that the Conservatives voted against it. It's allowed a massive bubble, a boom, to accumulate and burst. Yes it's a global recession, but never, ever forget that we are the worst positioned industrialised country in the world to weather this recession. There was no attempt to fix a roof over our heads while the sun was shining. The worst of it is, the poorest are going to suffer the most from Labours economic mess.

For some of the good Labour policies have done, they've done an awful lot of bad. I don't however believe you can spend your way out of a recession. You ask about heating, the Conservatives want to provide grants to help insulate homes, make them a better container of heat, be more environmentally friendly, and with this you save money, which can be spent elsewhere.

It is time for change you're right.

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 11:03
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680386)
Yes i have i guess im finding out now just wants going on and it interests me i just may start to attend these council meetings and be aware of who my councillor is to be frank i never thought forgive me for my ignorance that the council had much power on issues but now i understand they have but i have always been more concerned with the national agenda where the real power is.I guess everyone has start somewhere.
Refering to the safety mini buses i agree with you on that one but find it surprising that an health and safety officer for the council did not over-ride this issue.

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 11:06
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 680394)
It's very much an open forum, the right to reply is open to any other councillor of any political persuasion. Use your contacts and get them on here instead of you being the unofficial spokesman.
I guess the contacts would be making better use of there time as i am in-formed they run a good borough hense they are always elected, but i take your point.

lancsdave 15-02-2009 11:08
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 680393)
To be fair it's completely ludicrous that we should have to request the information in the first place. It should be simply accessible without having to ask.

It should be a right to have access to this information, not a permission.
The right to access the information is there as andrew had proved, just that you have to ask. I agree with you regarding it being easily available. Should be online for anyone to see.

garinda 15-02-2009 11:08
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Perhaps this mummy/son bonding might be better carried out via pm, or on one of the messenger services.:rolleyes:

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 11:14
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680395)
I can't say for definate that a Conservative government would lower divorce rates, but what I can say is at the moment the tax system benefits some couples to live apart. It's actually financially better for them to not live together. How wrong is that! The Conservatives would put an end to it.

Both the NHS and prisons, need to be better equipped to deal with the problems of mental health, and addictions, which I am sure will increase with the economic disaster we're experiencing. It's wrong to think that just throwing money at the NHS will help. That money has to be spent properly, on patients. Labour have failed to deliver on that. It's right that we should put more money into rehabilitating people addicted to drugs. That's the only way we're going to fix their problem. Simply locking them up, will ensure they'll be back on drugs causing crime whenever they're out.

Tougher sentencing for crime! If you carry a knife, you should be locked up. Plain and simple. If you carry a knife, you carry the intent to use it. If you had the worry of being locked behind bars for carrying the object, people would think twice.

Labour have ruined the economy. An end to 'boom and bust' we were told by Gordon Brown. It's fact that Gordon Brown's 1998 regulation tinkering effectively stopped regulation in its tracks, it's also fact that the Conservatives voted against it. It's allowed a massive bubble, a boom, to accumulate and burst. Yes it's a global recession, but never, ever forget that we are the worst positioned industrialised country in the world to weather this recession. There was no attempt to fix a roof over our heads while the sun was shining. The worst of it is, the poorest are going to suffer the most from Labours economic mess.

For some of the good Labour policies have done, they've done an awful lot of bad. I don't however believe you can spend your way out of a recession. You ask about heating, the Conservatives want to provide grants to help insulate homes, make them a better container of heat, be more environmentally friendly, and with this you save money, which can be spent elsewhere.

It is time for change you're right.
Thanks for your response and really i feel for the poor people who will suffer the most from labours economic mess, however the next election is easy to predict major LANDSLIDE, and i know that as it doesnt take rocket science.

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 11:16
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680405)
Perhaps this mummy/son bonding might be better carried out via pm, or on one of the messenger services.:rolleyes:
why?

claytonender 15-02-2009 11:17
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680384)
How can the 'Tories be tripped up' on here, when they don't have the courage of their convictions to join the public debate?
Exactly
(spoken with a Scouse accent - although I have been drinking my milk):)

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 11:18
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680409)
why?
I am just as everyone else an individual hyndburn resident and requesting information about political issues to both parties to enable me to make a clear informed decision.

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 11:21
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 680389)
Good to see another attack on Labour was the priority over answering this post :D
I dont feel you can ever over answer a question even if you just gain one vote i would go with a more in-formed decision the more information the better.

andrewb 15-02-2009 11:22
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680384)
How can the 'Tories be tripped up' on here, when they don't have the courage of their convictions to join the public debate?

We might not have an excellent council, as rated by the audit commission, if they spent all their time responding to Labour misleading people on AccringtonWeb. There's a very open debate for everybody to see called council. It's a shame expenses are not so open, then I wouldn't have had to FOI request them, and councillor Jones wouldn't have tried to trip the Tories up by starting this thread. Shame really, because it's all the Labour councillors whining, not a single Conservative councillor has contacted me over the issue, not even the leader himself.

Caz 15-02-2009 11:27
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 680412)
I dont feel you can ever over answer a question even if you just gain one vote i would go with a more in-formed decision the more information the better.
Never over answer a question? What does that mean?

cashman 15-02-2009 11:32
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680413)
We might not have an excellent council, as rated by the audit commission, if they spent all their time responding to Labour misleading people on AccringtonWeb. There's a very open debate for everybody to see called council. It's a shame expenses are not so open, then I wouldn't have had to FOI request them, and councillor Jones wouldn't have tried to trip the Tories up by starting this thread. Shame really, because it's all the Labour councillors whining, not a single Conservative councillor has contacted me over the issue, not even the leader himself.
WHY on gods earth should these conservative councillors contact you? yer reminding me of Humpty Dumpty.:rofl38::rofl38: unless yer far more than a student doing a degree?:rolleyes:

andrewb 15-02-2009 11:34
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 680416)
WHY on gods earth should these conservative councillors contact you? yer reminding me of Humpty Dumpty.:rofl38::rofl38: unless yer far more than a student doing a degree?:rolleyes:
Exactly. Why should they, when I'm requesting something I'm perfectly entitled to. Where as Labour councillors will was time posting on here when members of the public freedom of information request. No wait, let me rephrase, they post when it's somebody who voted Conservative at the last election, I can't find evidence of them being outraged at other FOI requests.

lancsdave 15-02-2009 11:37
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680413)
Shame really, because it's all the Labour councillors whining, not a single Conservative councillor has contacted me over the issue, not even the leader himself.
I think thats probably because they don't read Accyweb which is understandable given that they have already created a premier website for the views of the local residents :rolleyes:

garinda 15-02-2009 11:46
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680413)
We might not have an excellent council, as rated by the audit commission
Perhaps when you start paying for it yourself you might be in a better position to judge for yourself, if what is paid in Council Tax results in an excellent level of service here in Hyndburn.

As stated earlier, I've lived in both the most expensive and least expensive borough to live in in the country, and I don't think the level of services here in Hyndburn represents good value for money, when weighed against the amount of tax paid.

Still at least the people of Hyndburn can take comfort in the knowledge that Cllr. Britcliffe will be able to enjoy more than 'a hot dog and a can of Coke', the next time he's away from the borough on a jolly, thanks to the increase in subsistence allowance he chose to award himself...in defiance of the lower limit recommended by an independent panel.

Wynonie Harris 15-02-2009 11:54
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 680236)
I can tell you why I vote Labour - I remember the damage that apology for a 'woman' Maggie Thatcher (the milk snatcher) did to the ordinary working man and woman of this country. How she said 'there is no such thing society' and set out to try and break the spirit of hard working people, consigning so many to the scrap heap. Selling off all the utility companies, the railways, British Telecom, closing all the coal mines (when we had 600 years of coal left in them). Attempting to break the trade unions, decimating our industries, ending apprenticeships and brining in YTS (slave labour for 16 and 17 year olds. who were then consigned to the scrapheap, because there was a fresh supply of 16 year olds to fill their places). Allowing building societies to become banks, and loosening the financial control on them. Unfortunately we will have to live with the consequences of her incompetence for years to come.

Cameron is in just the same mould - last year he questioned why anyone would live in the North (maybe he would like us all to commit hari-kari). Over the past few years we have had millions of pounds of LABOUR government money, ploughed into Hyndburn for regeneration via Elevate, in 2009/10 there will be another £8.3 million pound to help to regenerate West Accrington. Cameron has said he will withdraw this funding - leaving East Lancashire to its fate (after all he doesn't think anyone should live in the North). As well as the regeneration money, there is money from LEGI and I am sure Graham will tell you all the other LABOUR government money that we receive in Hyndburn.

I am sure that the Tories would not be coping any better with the current economic crisis - they would probably be making sure the rich were looked after but it would be 'devil take the hindmost', after all the ordinary working person is expendable.

Are these enough reasons to let you know why I am proud to be a member of the Labour Party and a priveleged to be a member of the Labour Group on Hyndburn Borough Council.
I don't want to comment on the local politics aspect of this thread, as I've done so on here in the past and usually had my fingers burnt, probably due to lack of local knowledge.

However, can I just say, what a great post from Claytonender. Although I regard the present government as a bunch of unprincipled shysters and I will never ever forgive them for lying to the country to get us involved in an unnecessary war which has cost so many lives, this post reminds me of why I supported Labour in the past, way back before the cynicism set in...

Karma sent.

cashman 15-02-2009 12:09
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680417)
Exactly. Why should they, when I'm requesting something I'm perfectly entitled to. Where as Labour councillors will was time posting on here when members of the public freedom of information request. No wait, let me rephrase, they post when it's somebody who voted Conservative at the last election, I can't find evidence of them being outraged at other FOI requests.
nice response, who said "eels" were the slippiest of creatures?:D

andrewb 15-02-2009 12:12
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680420)

As stated earlier, I've lived in both the most expensive and least expensive borough to live in in the country, and I don't think the level of services here in Hyndburn represents good value for money, when weighed against the amount of tax paid.
Ah, you mean the council that gets a budget of £1,800 per head. Compared with our council that gets one of £187 per head. I couldn't imagine why the services you had before were better. :rolleyes:

garinda 15-02-2009 12:16
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680427)
Ah, you mean the council that gets a budget of £1,800 per head. Compared with our council that gets one of £187 per head. I couldn't imagine why the services you had before were better. :rolleyes:
Well trust me they were, both in Conservative Wandsworth, and Labour run Glasgow.

Like I said you'll hopefully be in a better position to judge for yourself as to the excellence of service versus money paid out of hard earned wages, when you start paying it yourself.;)

claytonender 15-02-2009 12:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 680421)
I don't want to comment on the local politics aspect of this thread, as I've done so on here in the past and usually had my fingers burnt, probably due to lack of local knowledge.

However, can I just say, what a great post from Claytonender. Although I regard the present government as a bunch of unprincipled shysters and I will never ever forgive them for lying to the country to get us involved in an unnecessary war which has cost so many lives, this post reminds me of why I supported Labour in the past, way back before the cynicism set in...

Karma sent.
Thank for the Karma. Not everyone in the Labour Party agreed with the Iraq war and it something that I have never agreed with. I can also appreciate that it is difficult for anyone who doesn't live in the borough to make comments about the current situation. As you are no doubt aware, the only councillor, who has served on the council longer than PB is Bernard Dawson- however rather than acknowleging that Bernard has much (if not more) knowlege of Hyndburn coucil than himself he constantly belittles every contribution he makes to any debate.




Posted via Mobile Device

Wynonie Harris 15-02-2009 12:40
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 680433)
As you are no doubt aware, the only councillor, who has served on the council longer than PB is Bernard Dawson- however rather than acknowleging that Bernard has much (if not more) knowlege of Hyndburn coucil than himself he constantly belittles every contribution he makes to any debate.
Very sorry to hear that. Although I've never met Bernard, I know from other people's opinions going way, way back to when I lived in Accy just how well-respected and experienced he is. You would think that Councillor Britcliffe would treat him with the respect he deserves, despite their party differences.

One other good thing about Bernard...he actually turns up to watch Stanley as a matter of course and not just when there's some publicity involved! ;)

Bernard Dawson 15-02-2009 12:47
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680413)
We might not have an excellent council, as rated by the audit commission, if they spent all their time responding to Labour misleading people on AccringtonWeb. There's a very open debate for everybody to see called council. It's a shame expenses are not so open, then I wouldn't have had to FOI request them, and councillor Jones wouldn't have tried to trip the Tories up by starting this thread. Shame really, because it's all the Labour councillors whining, not a single Conservative councillor has contacted me over the issue, not even the leader himself.
The leader Peter Britcliffe would contact you Andrew, if you if you put on here what allowances he claims

g jones 15-02-2009 13:04
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 680446)
Very sorry to hear that. Although I've never met Bernard, I know from other people's opinions going way, way back to when I lived in Accy just how well-respected and experienced he is. You would think that Councillor Britcliffe would treat him with the respect he deserves, despite their party differences.

One other good thing about Bernard...he actually turns up to watch Stanley as a matter of course and not just when there's some publicity involved! ;)
Quick story about Bernard and Peter. Peter often says in public he loathes Bernard (but I think it is anything red to be honest).

One day Bernard asked a question at Cabinet and Peter said;
"I am not taking that question from you Bernard sat in that seat." (He was on the front row in a half empty room).

"I am afraid you'll have to sit another seat before you can put your hand up again".

andrewb 15-02-2009 13:10
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680429)
Well trust me they were, both in Conservative Wandsworth)
No doubt they were, having £1000 extra per head does wonders if spent correctly.

garinda 15-02-2009 13:19
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680461)
No doubt they were, having £1000 extra per head does wonders if spent correctly.
Amazing how you know what years I was living, and paying Council Tax, in Wandsworth.

Did you use the Freedom of Information Act to find out, so you could quote an accurate figure?

Bernard Dawson 15-02-2009 13:19
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 680457)
Quick story about Bernard and Peter. Peter often says in public he loathes Bernard (but I think it is anything red to be honest).

One day Bernard asked a question at Cabinet and Peter said;
"I am not taking that question from you Bernard sat in that seat." (He was on the front row in a half empty room).

"I am afraid you'll have to sit another seat before you can put your hand up again".
Graham. I never did get to ask that question.

MargaretR 15-02-2009 13:20
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 680457)
Quick story about Bernard and Peter. Peter often says in public he loathes Bernard (but I think it is anything red to be honest).

One day Bernard asked a question at Cabinet and Peter said;
"I am not taking that question from you Bernard sat in that seat." (He was on the front row in a half empty room).

"I am afraid you'll have to sit another seat before you can put your hand up again".
Good Grief:eek: - our affairs are in the hands of a megalomaniac control freak
(apparantly/allegedly and all that PC/libel laws permit:rolleyes:)

andrewb 15-02-2009 14:36
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680465)
Amazing how you know what years I was living, and paying Council Tax, in Wandsworth.

Did you use the Freedom of Information Act to find out, so you could quote an accurate figure?
The 80's of course. You've told me before. :p It is interesting how, the council you praise so much, for having the cheapest council tax, has actually seen greater increases than Hyndburn council. What can I say, an excellent council, as rated by the audit commission.

claytonender 15-02-2009 15:01
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Posted via Mobile Device
Andrew will you be asking for FOI about the black hole that HBC are pouring money into - the Leisure Trust? Or do you only request information to use against the Labour Group? Also when you have the list of all councillor's expense claims for 2007 /08 will you be publishing all the figures?

Maybe you also need to ask why there are no dog bins in Peel ward despite the ward councillors and residents requesting them. before you dispute this I should inform you I have a full list of the location of all dog bins on the borough. Incidentally Peter Britcliffe denies the fact that there are no dog bins in Peel ward.

lancsdave 15-02-2009 15:23
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 680466)
Graham. I never did get to ask that question.

You should have changed seats then :D

garinda 15-02-2009 15:45
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680491)
The 80's of course. You've told me before. :p It is interesting how, the council you praise so much, for having the cheapest council tax, has actually seen greater increases than Hyndburn council. What can I say, an excellent council, as rated by the audit commission.
Well this is where you begin to look more than a lttle foolish, by stating more things as fact, when they're simply not true.

I never lived in Wandsworth in the 1980's.

Fact.

So you are wrong.

garinda 15-02-2009 15:53
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680508)
Well this is where you begin to look more than a lttle foolish, by stating more things as fact, when they're simply not true.

I never lived in Wandsworth in the 1980's.

Fact.

So you are wrong.
...and for someone supposedly intelligent you obivously missed the couple of posts where I'd stated that I'd paid Poll/Council Tax in Lambeth, and paid Council Tax in neighbouring Wandsworth, which of course wasn't introduced until 1993.

I understand you wouldn't have taken much interest at the time, and would probably have been happily watching the Teletubbies, but the fact remains, your assumption and figures would have been wrong because you looked at the wrong decade.

2/10 Must try harder.;)

cashman 15-02-2009 16:21
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680508)
Well this is where you begin to look more than a lttle foolish, by stating more things as fact, when they're simply not true.

I never lived in Wandsworth in the 1980's.

Fact.

So you are wrong.
well i aint trawling back through 380 plus posts, but i'm sure that something labours bin accused of quite a few times.:D

andrewb 15-02-2009 17:07
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680509)
...and for someone supposedly intelligent you obivously missed the couple of posts where I'd stated that I'd paid Poll/Council Tax in Lambeth, and paid Council Tax in neighbouring Wandsworth, which of course wasn't introduced until 1993.

I understand you wouldn't have taken much interest at the time, and would probably have been happily watching the Teletubbies, but the fact remains, your assumption and figures would have been wrong because you looked at the wrong decade.

2/10 Must try harder.;)
I got it wrong. My humble apologies Garinda. :)

Neil 15-02-2009 17:35
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 680395)
If you carry a knife, you should be locked up. Plain and simple. If you carry a knife, you carry the intent to use it.
I don't agree with that.

I drive a car and could kill you with it. Do you want me to be locked up because a drive with the intent of doing something.

People who use a knife to stab someone should be locked up for a long time, maybe 10 years or more without early release. I think that would be a bit deterrent when these young people start seeing there friends locked up.

What about under age people carrying knives? That is as much a problem as over 18 year olds.

Neil 15-02-2009 17:37
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 680393)
To be fair it's completely ludicrous that we should have to request the information in the first place. It should be simply accessible without having to ask.

It should be a right to have access to this information, not a permission.
That is a good point. All the account information should be available on the Council Website for everyone to see. It would save all the administration time dealing with FOI requests on the subject. Why are FOI's free? It costs money to pull all the information together.

Neil 15-02-2009 17:43
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 680383)
What about the minibuses with potentially unsafe second hand rear seats? Other authorities insisted that the minibuses passed a very rigourous test immediately, but Peter Britcliffe allowed them 6 months to satisfy the safety test.
Are you saying these minibuses are unsafe to be on the road? If so the Police can take them off the road.

If you are saying that new regulations have been brought in to enhance the safety of minibuses that is different altogether.

If new regulations have been brought in and they are retrospective then I agree you need to allow a reasonable amount of time for people to modify there minibuses.

Please can you explain more about this. I am very keen on seat belts on all vehicles. I think buses should have seat belts and that no one should be allowed to travel on a bus without a seat belt. We have all seen the TV adverts where the back seat passenger kills the front seat one - it must be the same on a bus.

claytonender 15-02-2009 17:44
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 680539)
That is a good point. All the account information should be available on the Council Website for everyone to see. It would save all the administration time dealing with FOI requests on the subject. Why are FOI's free? It costs money to pull all the information together.
That is a very valid point, I also agree with your post regarding Knifes.

Neil 15-02-2009 17:55
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 680384)
How can the 'Tories be tripped up' on here, when they don't have the courage of their convictions to join the public debate?
It must be your life's quest to get them on here mate, you are always trying to get them on. :rolleyes::D:D

Do you really think it would benefit local Government if we had both sides trying to pull each other to bits bits in public? We are not American :D

Bernard Dawson 15-02-2009 18:29
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 680502)
You should have changed seats then :D
I don't think it would have mattered where a sat. Peter Britcliffe really doesn't want to listen to anybody with different opinion to his own.

Bernard Dawson 15-02-2009 18:38
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 680467)
Good Grief:eek: - our affairs are in the hands of a megalomaniac control freak
(apparantly/allegedly and all that PC/libel laws permit:rolleyes:)
Maragaret, interesting you say that. When the cabinet system we now have in local government replaced the old committee system, it was suggested then that it would turn into a megalomaniacs charter. In the wrong hands of course.

Bernard Dawson 15-02-2009 18:46
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 680539)
That is a good point. All the account information should be available on the Council Website for everyone to see. It would save all the administration time dealing with FOI requests on the subject. Why are FOI's free? It costs money to pull all the information together.
Neil. The information that Andrew asked about me, he didn't need to use F.O.I If he had asked me I would have told him. I sure that a lot of other councillors would have done likewise.

lindsay ormerod 15-02-2009 19:09
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
3 things;
1) PB never liked my Uncle, Ian Ormerod either, despite the fact he was a damn fine councillor and worked tirelessly for his constituents.:rolleyes:
2) I will be voting Labour next time around, and I will vote for Greg Pope for as long as he stands as MP for Hyndburn, because he is a decent,trustworthy, honourable man , the alternative is too awful to contemplate.:eek:
3) Where has turkishdelight gone?:rolleyes:

Bagpuss 15-02-2009 19:18
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 680500)
Maybe you also need to ask why there are no dog bins in Peel ward despite the ward councillors and residents requesting them. before you dispute this I should inform you I have a full list of the location of all dog bins on the borough. Incidentally Peter Britcliffe denies the fact that there are no dog bins in Peel ward.
This is true I requested a location myself.:(
Britcliffe maybe right on the other point because there is one up Arden Hall unless it's been stolen or burnt up.

All the bins must be in Britcliffes ward because that's where all the s*** seems to come from.

turkishdelight 15-02-2009 19:30
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod (Post 680576)
3 things;
1) PB never liked my Uncle, Ian Ormerod either, despite the fact he was a damn fine councillor and worked tirelessly for his constituents.:rolleyes:
2) I will be voting Labour next time around, and I will vote for Greg Pope for as long as he stands as MP for Hyndburn, because he is a decent,trustworthy, honourable man , the alternative is too awful to contemplate.:eek:
3) Where has turkishdelight gone?:rolleyes:
seen as you ask the question im right here

garinda 15-02-2009 19:54
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 680543)
It must be your life's quest to get them on here mate, you are always trying to get them on. :rolleyes::D:D

Do you really think it would benefit local Government if we had both sides trying to pull each other to bits bits in public? We are not American :D
I think it would be interesting to hear from all sides of the political spectrum on an equal footing, which is what Accy Web allows.

The Conservatives seem to have no trouble using the other forms of the local media to express their views.

Why are they so afraid of this particular arena?

:rolleyes:

Neil 15-02-2009 20:19
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 680565)
Neil. The information that Andrew asked about me, he didn't need to use F.O.I If he had asked me I would have told him. I sure that a lot of other councillors would have done likewise.

I am sure you are right and they would. By publishing it on the website it would be done once a year and save everyone the time and effort when it is asked later on.

Just an idea for openess thats all.

cashman 15-02-2009 20:28
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 680558)
I don't think it would have mattered where a sat. Peter Britcliffe really doesn't want to listen to anybody with different opinion to his own.
ah can understand why ya didn't, but by not doing it adds little substance to yer claim mate,not a wise move. imho.:)

Bernard Dawson 15-02-2009 21:13
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 680612)
I am sure you are right and they would. By publishing it on the website it would be done once a year and save everyone the time and effort when it is asked later on.

Just an idea for openess thats all.
Neil. Personally I have no problem with that.

shillelagh 15-02-2009 23:26
Re: Anyone made a secret Freedom Of Info request about me ? Andrew?
 
ive been on rossendales website and found this

Rossendale Borough Council - Publication of Members Allowances

now having a nosy through hyndburns i couldnt find theirs .... why not ... and as there are councillors on here maybe a suggestion being put forward to have it put on the website if it had been there then maybe cyfr/andrew wouldnt have had to use the foi act!!!!


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