Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Hill Walker; Also a defined one way route through the store.[/QUOTE]

now that does make sense.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Re the itch, can you train your hands so that only the right is used to touch stuff and the left for your face? or use your arm and not your hand?

I have similar itches on my face and am purposely only using my left hand to touch it now.
Also, can you get any gloves or hand cleanser?
Perhaps keep a bottle of water with some bleach in it in the car boot, along with another bottle of water and some paper towels.
That way you can wash then rinse your hands then dry them before actually getting in the car.

I have some hand cleanser in mine, as soon as I open the door I cleanse my hands AND the door handle & steering wheel, also the sanitizer bottle.

The direction arrows in Asda are a total farce, yesterday among all the other people ignoring them there was a woman with a trolley and a double buggy, it seemed that she was intent on ignoring every single one.

While you can explain to the stupid how not to be stupid, they are often too stupid to understand you.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Better than bleach and kinder to the skin is tea tree oil or lavender oil.....twenty drops in half a pint of water. Shaken before application.
This can be used to sanitise hands or any hard surface, both of these are anti-viral and antibacterial.....you can put a small amount into a cupped palm and rub it all over back and front of the hands and rub until they are dry.(it takes only a short time)...you then need no paper towels, or wipes.

I use this, but have it in a micro spray bottle (a recycled hair treatment bottle...I guess any small spray would work) so that I do not waste the stuff.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Many thanks for that suggestion. I probably could train myself to do that but not within a sensible period of time, my tendancy to do things on auto-pilot is too strong.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Many thanks Margaret. I am already doing this (and a little more) but using TCP as the active ingredient, it was the only material I already had that has any anti-viral properties. I have always tried to treat this virus with the respect it deserves as I am beyond my 'best before' date and tick some other risk boxes as well. If I had any doubts they would have evaporated the other day when a near neighbour came home from hospital. He had battled the virus at home for a couple of weeks before the pneumonia started and he was put on medication. After another few days his condition deteriorated and he was admitted to hospital for three or four days. Returning home he appeared to have lost several stones in weight and be about 30 years older, in fact he appeared to be in a state for which you would normally call an ambulance. He's only about 50 and was fit as a fiddle.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Personally I preferred the corralling of the children in the car park shelter.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Hill Walker, you have to do what works for you...what you are comfortable with.
Many of the precautions(apart from social distancing) are what I use during the Winter flu season.

I think that there has been much reliance on the possibility that this would only afffect the 'crumblies in the tin'.....anyone can get it.....as experience has shown.

This is uncharted water, I know, but I think it could have been managed better.

We STILL have open borders with planes still landing....no checks made on the passengers....like where did your journey start?
Have you visited any of these places (virus hotspots listed)
And probably most vital....temperature checks.
Anyone found to have a temperature should then be isolated away from the general population.
All academic now....but the way forward is to test the population.

Re: Corona Virus
 

one for hill walker. know years ago i had a long time girlfriend who had a similar condition as your itching that seemed to be brought on by bright sunlight. she was a typical fair skinned blond and used to cover her face and hands in TCP finding it was the only thing that helped her. luckily for both of us neither disliked the smell of it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Why do we have to trawl the internet and go to self-funded, non-mainstream web sites to find someone asking reasonable questions?

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_apr_covid_and_flu

I’m sure it’s not just because the TV, radio, and newspapers have a vested interest in keeping us all like frightened children, hiding behind the sofa, watching, listening, or reading their 24/7 diet of doom and gloom.
Surely not?:rolleyes:

Re: Corona Virus
 

thing is though what we dont know? flu deaths are certainly higher. but we have a vaccine for it, it dont stipulate how many of those deaths from flu had no flu jab? so what does it really mean?

Re: Corona Virus
 

My next door neighbour is a young mum...she has been both terrified and traumatised by the incessant reporting withou the insight of perspective.
She was unaware of the numbers who die from winter flu each year.
We had a long conversation the other evening(separated by ten feet of crazy paved front garden - don't want plod telling me I am breaking the law...which is NOT law at all).
She said that once we had talked she felt better because she did not know much of the stuff I had told her...she asked 'why are the papers and the TV channels not telling us all this?'

I told her that it was not on their agenda to do so....to control a population, you instil fear(real or manufactured) and then ride in to the rescue...then you get a malleable grateful population who think they have been 'Saved'

Re: Corona Virus
 

Yes, we DO have a vaccine...but that this may be only effective in 30% of cases is not trumpeted to the population.


All influenza type viruses mutate, and the vaccines are created from the most prevalent strain from the previous winter in Australia.


Add to that many of those who have died in this pandemic have not died from the virus...they have died WITH it.
Many of them had pre existing conditions so the coronavirus was a co-morbidity issue.....Winter flu is the same...it may not kill on its own but if you have an underlying illness then you will be more susceptible and your chance of dying with it is greater...BUT if you had not had the underlying illness yuo could well have survived.


Yes...there have been those who were well who have succumbed and we are told that they had no other illness...what that means is a bit different..it means that the had no been DIAGNOSED with an underlying illness...that does not mean they did not have one.


the press telling us about those who were well and have died is to keep the well amonst us...worried.


This condition is serious...and please do not think I am saying other than this....I am not.
But all life has risks...it is up to you how you want to deal with those risks.

Re: Corona Virus
 

the true impact of the corona virus will only be evident when it all dies down.....how many deaths will be caused by despair and poverty through people having no jobs, losing their homes. losing their livelihoods, by health and mental health issues...these will be caused by the virus indirectly.

Western economies(all of them) will be destroyed for a long time...while China will hoover up the opportunities that we will be too impoverished to follow.

Re: Corona Virus
 

may only be 30% may be a bit more or less? my point is simple we never know how many of those deaths did use the flu jab.

Re: Corona Virus
 

For the first time ever I took up the offer of a flu jab last autumn.
Over Xmess, again for the first time, I had flu, or at least something much more than just a cold (persistent dry cough, lots of snot, feeling very yucky for a week).
If it happened now, I’m sure I’d be told I had the symptoms of Covid-19.

An epidemiology team from Oxford University, in contradiction to the one at Imperial College London that has ‘captured’ the Government and media with its doomsday predictions of 500,000 deaths in this country, suggests this virus has been in the UK since November. So maybe I did have Covid-19, or maybe it was just one of many flu viruses flying around.

The puzzle to me is that, in the first week of January this year 2141 people died of or with respiratory diseases. For the next ten weeks the figure slowly declined to 1557. But no-one was looking or testing for Covid-19, so not one of these deaths was attributed to that virus in that period.
However, by the week ending 27th March, there were still 1534 deaths, but suddenly 539 are down to Covid-19.
So hundreds of deaths are now being attributed to Covid-19, and yet the total number of monthly deaths has not massively increased!

It may yet, of course, but, for now, I remain unconvinced that the ‘cure’ being enforced on everyone will not be as bad or even worse in the long run than the disease.

Re: Corona Virus
 

yeh never know exile i had flu jabs since they came out, before that it was capsules which i had works, provided them never had flu until once about 9/10 years ago when i never took my jab, was in bed for 3 weeks with flu. so never missed since.

Re: Corona Virus
 

My other half was ill after every flu jab.....and it starts within hours of getting it.
He gave up having them about three years ago....now he has Vit C and Vit D every day from Oct 1st until BST starts....and he has stayed well(I have my fingers crossed saying this because you never know).

It is a regular routine we both follow.
I am not advocating this for everyone.
You have to weigh up what is right for you...no one can do it for you.

Re: Corona Virus
 

do not have the jab myself but i have heard of so many who get these symtoms after getting it. some have stopped and others carry on with it. when i do go for my mot every year they mention that i have turned it down but do not make an issue of it unlike asking me if i had thought of quitting smoking and telling me of the services they provide for it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I do not go to the GP's unless I am forced to.
I stay away because I would rather leave the appointments for those who are really ill.
I get a letter each year to tell me when the sessions are, but that goes in the bin.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1239172]I do not go to the GP's unless I am forced to.
I stay away because I would rather leave the appointments for those who are really ill.

along with taking all prescribed medicines that have been issued to you the GP,s and hospitals might not be as busy once we get back to normal.

Re: Corona Virus
 

just seen the Dept of Heath are gonna start a review into why ethnic minorities are being affected more by the virus? well watched a house in bradford the other day showing 9 people living in a small terrace house, there was hubby,wife, children, grandparents all living in it. so how the hell are you supposed to isolate then? if the need arises? this review is a complete waste of money to me, its obvious unless yer really thick what the score must be.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Have to say I've been having a flu jab every year for ages now, and thankfully I have not had any bad reaction nor have I had the flu. Whether this is by a happy coincidence or by the jab doing what it is supposed to do I'll never know. Hope I haven't jinxed myself now....

Re: Corona Virus
 

Dorothy, I was once told by one of the researchers who worked for Astra Zeneca(big pharma) that the vaccine we used here was based on the prevalent viruses over on your side of the world during the previous winter in that hemisphere
So if that is true, then perhaps it worked better because of that.

By the time the winterflu gets here it has had months to mutate so that makes it a bit less effective.

They tell us here that if we have the vaccination and get sick, it is pure coincidence and not due to the vaccine.
I would be nclined to believe it if it did not happen after each jab.
That it does happen after each jab, has to mean that the jab is implicated(logical?)

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=cashman;1239211]just seen the Dept of Heath are gonna start a review into why ethnic minorities are being affected more by the virus? well watched a house in bradford the other day showing 9 people living in a small terrace house, there was hubby,wife, children, grandparents all living in it. so how the hell are you supposed to isolate then?

however back in the world as it was we can learn something from the asian community about looking after their old folk. they look after them in their own homes and not chuck em into care homes as quickly as possible like a lot of us do.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I think the study is not going to be looking at why Asians get this more that anyone else..it is going to be looking at why they are more likely to die from it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

That is really interesting, Margaret, re the flu vaccination and it certainly makes sense as apparently the flu itself does often mutate. I do know people who have had the jab and then some insidious illness has appeared - whether this is a coincidence or not and it would have happened anyway we will never know. However, it seems to have worked ok for me, so far at least.

Re: Corona Virus
 

well Dorothy..if it works for you then you keep doing it...that makes good sense.

Re: Corona Virus
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-UO3Wd5urg0

You might find this an interesting watch.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Very interesting listen, Margaret.
There’s also a follow-up from yesterday with initial results of Dr. Bhattacharya’s work.
Even more interesting, certainly more so than the hysteria coming out of the main stream media.

https://www.hoover.org/research/figh...y-bhattacharya

And this is a British ‘expert’ who seems to be saying the same thing.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/0...s-are-working/

Re: Corona Virus
 

Thank you Exile....I feel like a voice calling in the wilderness.

There is also a video of a New York A &E Doctor who is questioning the use of ventilators in this pandemic.
He reckons that treating it like conventional pneumonia is flawed.....and that 60% of those ventilated die.....whatever country they are in, seems to underline this.
A Bradford hospital had ordered(from a local supplier) oxygen masks that deliver higher concentrations of oxygen rather than trying to force oxygen into the lungs(which it appears, is causing damage(?permanent).

Bill Gates says he will continue to write cheques to support the search for a vaccine(what a good guy he is)....well of course he will...he is in the pockets of the big pharma.

I am sounding more like MargaretR every day.

Re: Corona Virus
 

another informative video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elgct0nOcKY

Re: Corona Virus
 

Another interesting take from the ‘coal face’.
Need more brave and intelligent people in the health front like him to tell the rest of us what they are experiencing.
Would have thought the notion that Covid-19 may not be just another strain of flu was something worth thinking about in the medical world.

Re: Corona Virus
 

The BBC are at it again. No ‘bad news’ is worth examining in detail before making it their headline news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52341403

Today’s lead, on the BBC radio and web site at least, is the statistical guess from the National Care Forum that, from deaths in their homes, deaths in all other Care homes are probably much higher than so far announced.
The NCL represents ‘not for profit’ care homes. They have about 111 members. There are 21,723 Care homes in the U.K.
So, the NCL represent 0.5% of all Care homes.

If that number was reflected across all residential and nursing homes, NCF estimated there have been 4,040 coronavirus-related deaths in care homes which are not yet included in official figures.

This smacks of more sloppy statistics, which have already got us into this mess.
Maybe the NCL Care homes, being not for profit, rightly cater to the less affluent. Maybe they are in higher density urban area. And maybe their residents have higher co-morbidities than other care providers.
And just, maybe, you cannot simply project the NCL’s death rates to every other Care home without actually checking the figures first.
But that would require journalism rather than sensationalism.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Exile, you and I both know that whatever figures are bandied about, by whatever media source or government bodies even, are pure unadulterated speculation.
Because.....NO-ONE KNOWS THE TRUE SIZE OF THE PROBLEM.

It is impossible to know because general testing of the population has not and is not being done.
All of it is conjecture.

When all this started and we have been in lockdown 4weeks all but a day, certain measures should have been taken:
Weekly testing of NHS staff.
Testing of all the population who are employed.
Anyone testing positive should have been removed to a safe isolation unit for 21 days.
Anyone showing active symptoms and needing hospital care should have been hospitalised in an isolation hospital (definitely NOT a district general hospital....the air conditioning units to the wards are linked and this being air-borne is a fine way to disseminate the infection).

The advice for those who have compromising health conditions to stay at home is sensible enough, but there has to be an organised way of getting supplies to them.

I could go on with what, to me are sensible measures and precautions, but there maybe some on here who do not take to my ideas very well....and that is ok....I can live with it.

There is far more to this situation than meets the eye.
This has been a social experiment to see how compliant the general public are to being manipulated....so far it has worked.

However controversial these ideas are, you cannot argue with the fact that we have been lied to on an industrial scale.
And that in the end we are going to be picking up the economic pieces for decades to come...except I am at the bum end of my life....so it will be my descendants who are disadvantaged.

Re: Corona Virus
 

true no-one knows its all guesswork, thing is though with a pandemic it surely must be very hard to get the stuff yeh need cos every country in the world wants the stuff, dont really matter whats needed its in very short supply.we have no god given right to have first dabs on stuff,

Re: Corona Virus
 

Some years ago the PPE stuff required was bought from suppliers located in this country.....businesses that supplied the NHS often relied on those contracts to survive.
The NHS is a huge buyer, but it took its custom to China....on a cost basis.
Contracts with suppliers in this country were lost....suppliers then diversified...stopped production of the stuff the NHS once bought.
We should be buying from firms in THIS country, because in situations like this the firms would pull out all the stops to supply what was required...and we would have had first dibs on it.

The government have spent 16 million quid on Ineffectual PPE.
This could have been bought from suppliers here, but as always procurement officers always look for the cheapest and the cheapest is not always of the quality that is required.
Will the government get this money back?
Who knows?

Re: Corona Virus
 

the quantity needed surely could not have been bought from here ? or why are they getting firms who dont make it to do so?:confused:

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, I used to be on a product user group (I know it is a while ago now).
This group of nurses would give feedback on the products we were expected to use....stuff that the procurement officer was planning to accept tenders from.....I can tell you that sometimes just a couple of coins would decide yes or nay.
Yes the products were supplied by companies located in the U.K...well, until China muscled in.
China has created this huge crisis....a world crisis....and who do you think will profit from this crisis?
It will not be the UK.
When you rely on stuff from the other side of the world...and a country that supplies the world, then you are asking for trouble....because as you say in this situation we cannot expect first dibs at anything.
If things had been different and loyalty to UK suppliers had been kept, then these suppliers would have jumped to attention and we would have the stuff we needed, locally sourced, giving work to people who live and pay their taxes in the UK.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Because the firms that used to make stuff for the NHS....and would have continued to do so were undercut in price by suppliers from China.
Tenders were lost so firms diversified...they stopped making the stuff that they used to make for the NHS.
I am speaking from experience here Cashy.
Cheaper meant that it was bought from China.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i understand that but the situation we are in now is the one that needs sorting first, would suit me if they told china to get stuffed afterwards, but doubt that somehow,

Re: Corona Virus
 

The situation we are in now was created by China.
Yes, you are right about the current situation needing sorting....and I guess that is what they are trying to do....a BA plane was chartered to bring in PPE gear from Turkey.

But if the NHS had any sense they would get a supplier from the UK.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Margaret, from your experience what’s your take on waste in the NHS?
Realise it’s the equivalent of heresy to even suggest a criticism of the NHS, but I’ve heard stories from other people of scissors being thrown away after being used once to cut a bandage or to do some basic chiropody.
I do sometimes wonder if, as well as U.K. suppliers, risk averse and administratively cumbersome public organisations have forgotten the need to re-use (after sterilising in the NHS) some equipment.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Exile, undoubtedly there is waste.
The scissors are defined as 'single use'....in fact I once asked why they could not be sent to CSSD(The hospital sterilising department) and was told that it was more expensive to sterilise them than to replace them.
Where I worked we saved them and one of our consultants used to take a container load of stuff that was surplus to requirements, over to a missionary hospital in India...so they would be re-used over there.
For the cutting of a bandage...the scissors do not need to be sterile and every nurse I ever knew had their own pair of scissors for the non sterile stuff....and we used to clean our scissors daily with alcohol wipes.

As to other waste....commodes, walking frames, elbow crutches...these (or at least some of these) are being recycled.
As a senior Sisre/Ward Manager, part of my job was budget responsibility, so I took the waste of resources very seriously....and it was brought up at ward meetings.
That is my take on how it used to be, but remember I have been retired for almost 18 years so I cannot say how things are now....but I would guess things are tighter.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1239310]The situation we are in now was created by China.

that is something we should never forget. mind you in some quarters you are getting the racist finger pointed at you if you say it. for me the only thing we have ever got from china in corona virus and if it was a country we never dealt with again it would suit me. doubt it will happy in the world where cheapest is always best. if it says, made in china, i look elsewhere.

Re: Corona Virus
 

China's ambition has always been world dominance...and in a stroke they will have it because while the western economies are trashed, they will make as much mileage as possible.
Being a totalitarian society means that the people do as they are told...no questions...questions lead to people disappearing....
so they will be told to work their behinds off to pull their economy off the floor(though I suspect that it was never there in the first place - and before someone tells me...I know my belief doesn't make a fact) and suck up businesses like they were a Maccy D milkshake.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I guess I should watch out for myself now I have said what (probably) many other people were thinking, but not saying.

I hope we do find out what went on in china....the German government have sent China a demand for something like 130billion quid(or the equivalent) for the damage this crisis has caused their economy.

It is very easy to say cut off trade...except places have become so used to the cheap products manufactured in china...and China has stuffed up the manufacturing bases in many other countries because people will almost always go for the cheapest...rather than locally made...so that locally made goes under...then you are forced to buy from those who have stolen the market.

Rocket Science...it aint!

Re: Corona Virus
 

as one who is always looking for a bargain and who keeps well way from those locally sourced rip off products, one thing i do avoid like the plague{or should i now say virus** is the made in china label. if any on here but car parts especially electric stuff stay well clear. you have been warned. its a pity i wasn,t before i purchased some of their stuff.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Monkey Hanger...all life lessons have to be paid for.

Re: Corona Virus
 

This virus is the longest anything made in China has lasted.:rolleyes:

Re: Corona Virus
 

Seem to remember they built a bit of a wall that's lasted a few centuries ;)

Re: Corona Virus
 

Yeah, but not everything has changed with their work practices since then.
Who built the Great Wall of China?
Millions of the people constructed the Great Wall. The labor force to build the Great Wall includes workers, soldiers, forcibly recruited peasants, slaves, convicts and war prisoners.
Who built the Great Wall, when and why?

Re: Corona Virus
 

You're quoting from a travel brochure ?? :)

Re: Corona Virus
 

https://www.history.com/topics/ancie...-wall-of-china

Is this better for you?

Re: Corona Virus
 

Made you look, made you look.:rolleyes:

Re: Corona Virus
 

Yeah, made me laugh though.:)

Re: Corona Virus
 

So good to make someone chuckle in these days of doom and gloom.

Re: Corona Virus
 

https://twnews.co.uk/uk-news/tuesday...abroad-from-uk

Cashy, have a read at the article half way down the page.
A UK supplier who offered the NHS PPE, but was mired in red tape.....so sold the stuff to EU countries.
this is absolutely ridiculous.
Apart from safety issues, there should bo NOOther consideration to stop the NHS from accessing the equipment made in THIS country.....not selling it abroad.

Re: Corona Virus
 

read it now it says read inside story but there is no link to one?

Re: Corona Virus
 

It is covered in other publications Cashy...both in print and online.
I think this online source is subscription so my guess is that you will be unable to acces it unless you pay to do so.
I will look for something free that gives the story. It was just to underline that there are producers of the equipment here...producers who are willing and able, but are tied up by bureaucratic red tape.
Watch this space.

Re: Corona Virus
 

https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/uk-news/br...abroad-as-nhs/

Please note....the reports I have seen do not indicate the PPE was manufactured here....only that the suppliers are in the UK(it is very likely that the equipment originated in China)

Re: Corona Virus
 

The LBC report says the equipment was manufactured here, but other reports do not indicate this.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Article you link to clearly states:
But UK wholesalers have told the newspaper their warehouses are full of vital equipment purchased from China,

Not defending anyone but maybe it was the same PPE from China that’s reportedly been rejected?
Other than languishing in a warehouse, what else would happen to equipment that has been bought from abroad but was rejected by the NHS?

Re: Corona Virus
 

yeh but yeh never know whats correct and what aint, i read a story were the quality of the british stuff was not of medical standard so what to think is up in the air.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, we only know what we are told....and we know that some publications will catastrophise events to make either political points or to sensationalise.
That is why I took two sources from publications/media less likely to be sneered at as 'not worth wiping your Btm on'.

You have to wonder though about the bureaucracy...and if this equipment is good enough to be bought by countries in the EU then I would suggest that it is fit for purpose and safe to use...or they would not be buying it.
It must meet the right specs.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Yes, I did note that in the newspaper article about the supplier being just that...a supplier.
As for it having been rejected....I am not sure that is right.
If that were the case then why would EU countries be stumping up the money?

I did read that the NHS had spent 16 million on PPE that was unserviceable, but that was a different story....unrelated to the supplier that tried to sell her stock to the NHS....unless, you have read something elsewhere that indicates it was the same set of kit.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I do realise this is a serious topic, but during "The lockdown that's not a lockdown" folks have to some extent been more inclined to contact family & friends. Admittedly via mails, phone, bookface & the likes, also the "Funnies" have been doing the rounds, that being the case I'd like to share some that I've received from some dubious characters, (who claim to know me?:rolleyes:) with the goodly folks posting here, therefore, please enjoy the following! :D

Re: Corona Virus
 

Oh son....I find it really hard to decide which of these I like the best.
They made the tears run down my legs :)

Re: Corona Virus
 

:D:D Ah, a puddle of merriment! Just blame the moggies ;)

Re: Corona Virus
 

Oh No I take full responsibility...after all ladies of a certain age are expected to dribble from one end or the other.:D:D:D

Re: Corona Virus
 

:eek::eek::eek: Whoa way to much information!!! :D

Re: Corona Virus
 

as the advert says(over here anyway)
'What's a bit of wee?'

Re: Corona Virus
 

So much for advertising standards then. :)

Re: Corona Virus
 

if you want the answer to that son...head over to the worst advert thread...there are some real shockers on there.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Becoming clearer by the day that the virus that is the main stream media (stay scared, keep watching/listening/reading your daily dose) is as big a threat to our country than any medical virus.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/0...is-even-worse/

Here’s just one more example of statistics being misrepresented, either through ignorance or deliberately, by the MSM.

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_apr_corona_latest

Re: Corona Virus
 

what escapes peoples notice is that every single day in this country there is an average of 1400 deaths.
These figures are never published, because there is no political motive behind these deaths.


Any death is regrettable...it means some family has lost a loved member...and their lives will be forever changed,

This current crisis haskilled fewer people, but created a colossal amount of misery.
This misery is not going to go away in the next month, the next year or the next decade.

It's effects are going to be felt by societies in the civilised world for decades...with great difficulties experienced in trying to get life back on an even keel.
Its effects will be crippling in both global and personal debt...well unless there is some move to cancel out the debts and start again from scratch( I cannot see it happening myself).

China has trashed every economy except its own...now do you think this was accidental?
Especially when you consider the ambitions of china to be a world superpower.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Exile...isn't this something we have been saying since the start of this thread?


with regard to the second link...again, this has bee a recurring theme on here to.
This is not because we are particularly astute, but because we can see through the smokescreen that is in place to befuddle us....how do you make a popuation compliant?


Easy answer is you create a problem, then you ride in on a white charger and rescue those who were fearfull......except the Knight in shining armour is on foot and is carrying another knight in full battle gear...which is why it is taking somuch time to resolve.


And yet...doesn't every cloud have a silver lining....crude oil prices have 'tanked'...people are not going anywhere so Greta is happy that for a while the planet can breathe and pollution has fallen...bet her Swedish backers are pig sick!

Re: Corona Virus
 

Thank goodness for the NHS, they are portrayed as the ones on a white charger and to add to the drama lets keep them short of PPE (something I'd never heard of before this crisis). put them on 'the front line', have histrionics from some of the nurses crying on social media claiming they are putting their lives on the line.
It is enevitable unfortunatly if we use analogies to warfair that some of the troops will fall, every life lost is a great loss to society no more and no less than that of a nurse or doctor, we should not be putting them on a pedastal as superhumans.
Lets not forget they are as mortal as the rest of us and require as much care and attention and equipment as would be given to well, 'front line troops', but not used as propaganda to keep the rest of us in line.

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Less you are spot on...and I know just what you mean.
Everyone who is doing their bit, be it nurse, doctor, cleaner, binman, shop worker...in fact anyone who comes into the contact with the general public,
They are doing a job....most nurses and NHS staff do not want to be lionised...they just want to do what they have to do.
They are not super-human but it is the media who keep on promoting this image...it is becoming cringeworthy...and some of these people who are being put on a pedestal are starting to believe the myth.

It is grossly unethical to use them as pawn in a propaganda exercise.

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We are all allowed out every Thursday evening now, to clap the NHS, I do applaud their efforts but, you won't see me out there like some media created worshipper.

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Me neither Less....I find this practice trite and condescending.
It does nothing practical to commend it...it is for those who are clapping rather than those who are looking after people.

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Got to admit, I've felt this way ever since the beginning of the crisis and wondered how it would be received if I was to put forward such thoughts of mortality so far as the media gods in the NHS.

The shortage of PPE does remind me of the emporors clothes though, all of officialdom promising the NHS the best of gowns, masks and gloves and yet when we see the nurses kitted out these items do seem a touch invisible.

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Less, you know me...I tell it like it is....if others find this unpalatable, then that is their problem....I am speaking from the perspective of having been there.

As for the PPE......this is something that should have been sorted.
Nurses and doctors should not be expected to work without effective personal protection.
What I want to know is....where did the thousands of long sleeved cotton (washable)barrier gowns go....these gowns were used every time you made beds. Or did baths or washed patients...they were to,protect your uniform from contamination.
They were also used in barrier nursing patients.
These days nurses don plastic aprons to make beds or deal with hygiene and care needs, but these cover no more than 50 per cent of the uniform.
Plastic, to add to the disposed of plastic that we are encouraged to stop using.

The cotton barrier gowns were sent to the laundry each day, washed at high temperature and returned for further use.....so these would have been very effective in the current situation and not add to the disposal problems.

This is not rocket science.....and I am not a genius.....but these are relevant questions.

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plastic= throw it away it becomes someone elses problem.
Cotton=employing staff to wash it, YOUR problem and must be avoided to keep the books straight.

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The staff are already there....washing stuff.
But I think you might be right.....though the hospitals have to pay to dispose of stuff(or at least they did.....I can t see those costs diminishing).

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1239464]what escapes peoples notice is that every single day in this country there is an average of 1400 deaths.
These figures are never published, because there is no political motive behind these deaths.


Any death is regrettable...it means some family has lost a loved member...and their lives will be forever changed,

This current crisis haskilled fewer people, but created a colossal amount of misery.

be actually interesting to find out what the total deaths in this country are during this outbreak. might give the public at large a bit more information to how to regard the virus. at the moment i get the impression that there are no deaths apart from virus related ones.

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https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_apr_corona_latest
The above link I can take no credit for Exile posted this link on the previous page, but I think it might answer your questions.
So Thank you Exile.
Have a look at it.
It makes for interesting reading....because it gives a totally different story than the one we are being asked to swallow.
Which begs the Question.....what are the motives?
I will leave you to draw your own conclusions as I feel a MargaretR moment coming on.

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I had a little chuckle to myself when it started Margaret, it may seem cynical but all I could see was people clapping at their own silliness obeying the government line like sheep. I fully understand people taking full care not to contract/spread this awful disease but I don’t understand why everyone has to make a big show on their doorsteps. I am a domestic in a Care home and fully aware of the crisis we’re facing at the moment but I kind of find all this patronising for some reason.

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You find it patronising because it IS patronising, if I was part of the Government I would be sucking up like mad to the NHS and all other 'essential workers', what a mess we would be in if they went on strike.

But so long as we can keep them on side until the crisis is over a bit of brown on the tongue is worth it, we can go back to ignoring and underpaying them later. (I might have added keeping them short of resources, however the PPE calamity is still with us. Long may we ignore our own resourcefulness and keep buying cheap).

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Interesting article from a ‘disinterested’ scientist...

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/0...costing-lives/

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I have to admit it is quite cringeworthy - can't we do anything more practical than break away from binge watching box sets of imported televisual garbage tripping past the piles of 32 pack bog paper that now clutter our homes to stand outside the front door and bang a pan once a week ? At least the Italians sang some opera out of their windows all we can manage is to clap and bang pans.

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I am in the age group considered 'vulnerable'.
This term used for all those in a certain age group is offensive, discriminatory and does not take into consideration the improved health of this group.
I am also against vaccination....if you are vaccinated and I am not, I am no risk to you because you have armed yourself with an improved immunity by being vaccinated.

If a vaccine does become available....I won't be having it.

My problem with vaccinations is both medical and ideological.
I do not trust big pharma to protect me....especially when the likes of Bill gates cosies up to big pharma by promoting vaccination in third world countries.
He would spend money ensuring all children are vaccinated against bacteria in dirty water, because this puts money into the pockets of big pharma.
A simpler solution that would benefit everyone in third world counties would be to provide wells and clean water...probably cheaper too....but does not benefit big pharma.
Bill Gates is in favour of a reduction in population.....go figure.

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IT does not sound disinterested to me.

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‘Dis-‘ not ‘un-‘.
I meant disinterested in that he doesn’t seem to be actively advising any government or working for a particular group with an agenda.

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;
I am also against vaccination....if you are vaccinated and I am not, I am no risk to you because you have armed yourself with an improved immunity by being vaccinated.

If a vaccine does become available....I won't be having it.

join the club margaret. the thought of being vaccinated by this rushed through vaccine makes me worry more than the actual virus itself. keep hearing stuff like it takes 6 or 7 years of research and making of vaccines then this one will be out in months and not years. mind you they might offer anyone who does get vaccinated a badge to wear to show you are safe.

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I'm not sure that you would be safe...there is little proof that having had the virus confers immunity....and there is evidence to show those who have recovered still test positive.
(Though on consideration that might be the shonky Chinese testing kits that are to blame).

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Proof that vaccines are of no use must obviously come from the irradication of small pox, or was it because of witch doctors dancing and shaking their sticks at those inflicted?

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Less...Read ben Goldacres 'Bad Pharma' see what the big pharma compamnies get up to in the name of making billions of dollars.

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If you don't mind I'd rather not, it's not that I'm happier being ignorant and unlightened, it's just that somehow I get the feeling that I wouldn't be any happier if I was ignorant but felt enlightened by a few propaganda 'facts'.

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You wouldn't be happier...in fact is probably for the best that you don't read it.
Except they aren't propaganda facts...they are what goes on in research....and the dirty dealings that go on.

I was daft to suggest such a thing.

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I only have your word that his word isn't propaganda, under normal circumstances I would take your word at face value, somehow today just at this moment, with all that's going on, nope.

As for you being daft, if that is your opinion you are of course entitled to it.