Re: Corona Virus
 

That is obvious to many people i think.

Re: Corona Virus
 

This is a picture of a letter received by someone living in Wales.
This person has ongoing serious health issues.
In Saturday mornings post they received two letters....one reminding them that the should have the flu jab(that makes money for the practice) and this one telling them that if their health took a major downturn they would not be admitted to hospital, an ambulance would not be called and no measures such as CPR would be performed on them...but later in the letter in bold....it tells them that they are not being abandoned.

So tell me....is this the NHS at its best?
Oh and before someone tells me that GP’s are not employed by the NHS, but contracted to the NHS...I know....but should it make a difference?

Re: Corona Virus
 

but is it. vaccinations will never be compulsory but there could be restrictions put on the whole population who refuses them. doubt many think this will happen but how many thought we,d be restricted in our lives since march. keep hoping something will crop up where the vast majority do rebel in the enough is enough thoughts. not going to be a breath holding exercise though.

Re: Corona Virus
 

be interesting how many similar letters went out last week. is it the health service to blame or the welsh assembly putting pressure on em to toe their line.

Re: Corona Virus
 

This is beyond belief....

Re: Corona Virus
 

It is time they (the government, the scientists) started to come clean about the number of people who are ill....rather than the number of people who have had positive PCR tests.
A positive test means nothing in the absence of symptoms.
Currently it is implied that positive tests are ‘cases’.....many of these tests will be repeat tests on the same person(schools require a negative result before a child can return to school).
600 thousand children have been sent home from school since the new term started....only 10 thousand tested positive....and we are not told just how many of these children actually exhibited symptoms.

The other thing that I wonder is whether the amplification of these tests has been increased....or what the amplification of each test is.
The reason I would like to know is that the more a test is amplified the more likely it is to be positive.
This test is not specific to Covid....it will pick up and protein from previous virus infections....not necessarily Covid.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1246238]It is time they (the government, the scientists) started to come clean about the number of people who are ill....

that what really bugs me. they say X number of positive cases in a certain area. that certainly is not the case to order a wreath for all of em. however there must be plenty of people out there hearing these things that go in a bigger panic mode because of this news. in times of crisis it should be the governments job to reassure the population not putting em in fear and having to find the correct information from somewhere else.

Re: Corona Virus
 

If there were the cases that they are bandying around then there would be bodies piled up in the streets.
If you get this virus, then unless you are already ill with another condition...or perhaps even have an undiagnosed condition(it is said that there are many undiagnosed type two diabetics in the population) then your chances of recovery are 99%.
So why are we disabling education, businesses livelihoods for a 1% risk?

Well, I know what I think...but then you do too as I have been saying it since dot of this situation...but then why would anyone listen to a conspiracy theorist?

Re: Corona Virus
 

again its not a conspiracy theory. why do the thinking population have to search youtube, read your and exiles stuff to get an alternative view to help you understand the total situation we are in. what you and exile find is not compulsory to believe but neither is the BBC. unfortunetly the majority seem to believe them and shows the value of constant propaganda issued to the public.

Re: Corona Virus
 

yes...I think my aim has to be that I offer information for people to consider as an alternative to the stuff we are being bombarded with....and also what seems to be the agenda behind these scare tactics for that is what they are.
People may read the links that i post, the information,( and some of it from sources that havean agenda in keeping us scared) and they can decide whether they waant to beleive MSM or whether they will look into the alternative views.

There is a growing group of medics, scientists and epidemiologists who are openly expressing views other than that the governments in the world are asking the population to believe.
and if they are concerned then it stands to reason(or to my reason) that there is something to be concerned about.

Re: Corona Virus
 

new on the BBC website the government scientific moddlers are predicting deaths between 2 and 4 thousand a day if the government does not intervene again. wasn,t it no more than 1,000 fudged figures anyway at last times maximum. these men are really dangerous.

Re: Corona Virus
 

New full Lockdown next week.
We have had a creeping lockdown for weeks anyway.
Ridiculous and nonsensical rules have meant that people did not trust what they were being asked to do...but were still scared by the information.

They think a lockdown will sort it....it won’t.
It will still be there when we are released from house arrest.

Re: Corona Virus
 

As far as im concerned a full lockdown has no chance of working unless they start to come down hard on the clowns that ignore it. obviously wont win me any fans but i dont give a stuff thats my view Like it or Lump it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Quite, in 90/91 before going to the Gulf, British troops were offered a jag against Bubonic plague due to the Bio-warfare threat of Saddam. This particular little dose of joy wasn't exactly an off the shelf & authorised cure all, more a sort of lets see what happens, Squaddies being squaddies just said yeah ok do it!


After leaving in late 93 I received my medical docs to hand on to my new Civvy house doctor, nowhere in my papers was the plague jag mentioned, I & I would suggest 99% of the UK forces "Voluntarily" got stabbed without knowing the effectiveness or if complications would arise then or in later life.


When studies showing our lads & lasses along with many allied troops showing varying unidentifiable & non definable, illnesses & effects years after, known as the "Gulf war syndrome", all Govts denied any knowledge as to why this should be.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Have just read Sean Connery has died, now I wonder what they'll put the cause down to?

Re: Corona Virus
 

I worked with a las who had been out in the gulf.
She had had these jabs....on return to civvy street she trained to be a nurse...she finished her training, but became ill with those indefinable symptoms and was told that she had the 'gilf war syndrome' thought to have been caused by getting all the jabs that the army felt were necessary.
she never was able to work, nor was she able to prove her disabling condition was due to the jabs

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, you say it how you see it(always have dne as far as I am aware)....and no-ne can accuse you of sitting on the fence.
If you please yourself..then at least you know that one person in the world is happy.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I have to say that a month long lockdown fills me with despair.
I abided by the three months lockdown in March.
In that time I went out of my house ten times....every time was for essential household items....and every time it was early morning.
I have been nowhere on public transport...in fact I have been nowhere, full stop....since all of this began.
I feel robbed and resentful.
I feel like I am under house arrest.....and for doing nothing out of the ordinary.

This first lockdown was observed far more rigorously than the later nonsensical rules.
If rules do not make sense then they will be disregarded.

How does it make sense that you cannot visit your family(family whose health status you know) but you can go to a pub and have a meal and a drink alongside people you know nothing of.

Personally I would prefer to take my chances. I fear the restrictions far more than I fear the virus

Re: Corona Virus
 

Well Margaret, the pub for a drink or a meal is out the window now - not that it's going to make an iota of difference when schools, colleges & universities are to stay open. It's no coincidence that the number of cases started to rise when they went back at the beginning of September.
At the moment it seems that basically if it's fun you can't do it but if it's school or work you can because Covid knows the difference - kind of like a s**t Santa!

Re: Corona Virus
 

yes..it is a clever virus...it knows what time it is.....so sup up by ten pm.
I wonder if it is clever enough to tell Rishi Sunak how he's going to fund the furlough extension...
and if it will ask the BBC to rescind the decision to make the over 75's cough up the money for a TV licence(especially as the BBC do not appear to cater for the older population anymore..programs full of lewd behaviour and profanity)

I wonder if it can also tell us how those children who are currently in the exam years are going to deal with exams after a fractured halting education.
My daughters two children have only had three weeks of education in the last six weeks....and thay are in a GCSE year and sixth form...not good.
I would be interested to hear the answers.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Margaret, the trouble is that none of those who should be able to sort things out seem to have the answers. The whole thing about education this year has been a shambles everywhere. It's like the year that never was. There has not been any consistency in attending or not attending school, going back to school and then not going back to school. How the students catch up, IF they catch up, remains to be seen. Let's hope the powers-that-be make allowances for the disruptions. There's enough pressure put on the young people today as it is.

Re: Corona Virus
 

In 2018 the total number of deaths from any cause was 541,589.
In 2019 the total number of deaths from any cause was 530,841.
So far this year there have been 453,803 deaths from any cause(this is up to the week of the 25th of September) and this is in a year when we are in a pandemic.

Unless we have 77,000 deaths in the next two months we are still only meeting what could be considered a ‘normal’ number of deaths.
By the way, these stats are for England and Wales and were taken from ONS figures.

All of the graphs we are being shown are without context, and as such are of use only for bamboozling the general public.
All the infections are the number of positive tests.
Some of these positive tests will be the same person tested multiple times...but will be counted as if they are sick people.

We are being put into a second lockdown for no good reason....and this time the children are being allowed to go to school...well unless someone in their bubble or study group tests positive, then it is off home....isolate...test and if you get a negative test you go back to school for....well maybe a day...or two and then the process is repeated.
Make any sense to you?
Or is it just me who thinks this is nonsense? Don’t answer that....I know what you will say.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Dorothy, there are two Oxford men who have a blue print that they put forward to The PM....they are Dr Tom Jefferson and Professor Carl Heneghan.

Alas these men are not in the scientific team advising the PM...they have no vested interests in big Pharma...unlike Chris Whitty (chief Medical Officer of health) and Patrick Vallance(chairman of the SAGE group)...both of these men are in the pockets of companies who want to make money from vaccines.
The PM is taking advice from computer modellers....and the doom brothers.
The computer modellers have not been right once....they predicted huge death tolls from SARS, from Swine flu and one of the...Neil Ferguson was responsible for totally inaccurate information about the foot and mouth crisis many moons ago...so not trusted.


So they want to keep us scared....they want us all to be ready to take up a vaccine that has been developed in a very short time(vaccines normally take ten to fifteen years to develop and be tested before they are administered)...so forgive me for not trusting their judgement.
I have no trust in the figures that are being bandied about...or the graphs either.
I have just posted the yearly numbers of deaths from 2018 to the present....and they are not elevated....which you would expect they would be in a year when there has been a contagion.
So something is not right.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i am very sceptical of a new vaccine that comes out quickly, one came out during the Gulf War and was given to the people, it was NOT properly tested and was the cause of what they called Gulf War Syndome, many said it was the long term effect of the vaccine and they were sodded off, that is why i am very skeptical. if yeh think thats bull check it for yourselves,

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=AccyMad;1246296]Well Margaret, the pub for a drink or a meal is out the window now - not that it's going to make an iota of difference when schools, colleges & universities are to stay open. It's no coincidence that the number of cases started to rise when they went back

you would have thought at the outset that students would have been forced to take a course at a university close to their home. its not as if the country is not short of universities nowadays. it would stop all the students being gathered together 24 hours a day. if you live in bradford go to bradford university if the course of your choice is there not sothampton and someone from there passing you up the motorway in the opposite direction doing the same thing. if learning is someones priority and not the social life at university which i,m afraid is a lot of thems priority then surely it would make sense.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=cashman;1246309]i am very sceptical of a new vaccine that comes out quickly,

yes, plus the possibility of having to have proof of vaccination before you can do everything you did before march. would you risk a vaccination you do not believe in just to go back to the wham every other week. its a decision that i do think we,ll all have to make.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Add to that the fact that we are being told that the immunity conferred by having had the virus, lasts only a very short time....so you might have to have the jab every six months.

Now, who do you think are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of this scenario.

It worries me that China patented this virus the day after it was confirmed it was transmissible to humans....and that they already have a vaccine for it.
What does that say to you.
It tells me that they have been working on it for many years, at least fifteen.....and that the release of this manipulated virus was deliberate.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1246310]
Monkey hanger, it is not quite as simple as that.
I think it is more about the reputation of some universities.
Some universities have better reputations and look better on a CV.
Also the courses that the universities provide are not the same.
My daughter wanted to do Radiology, but the only place that could be called local is Lancaster, because she had two small children when she was doing her degree, it was not possible for her to go to Lancaster every day on public transport....so she had to look at what the university of Central Lancashire provided and did an alternative health related degree.

Re: Corona Virus
 

There are 1700 deaths every day in England and Wales....this must be considered when we are hearing the figures being regularly spewed out in the Fear Factor campaign.
This in the absence of a pandemic.
Just remember that.

Re: Corona Virus
 

think i will not be alone in not knowing that number of deaths fact. its one of those facts that due to the numbers involve people cannot get their heads round it. used to live in a village of around that population and its like saying everyone will die there one day. on top of that has the main media ever published this fact at any time or is it they cannot get a graph to show it. right from the outset i wanted to see figures of excess deaths from the virus on top of the average. never seen it and have to rely on accy web and other places to obtain information. clear balanced information and debate should be the least we all deserve.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1246314]


Monkey hanger, it is not quite as simple as that.
I think it is more about the reputation of some universities.
Some universities have better reputations and look better on a CV.
Also the courses that the universities provide are not the same.


i understand this and realize with the wider number of couses that are available nowadays its far different to when i left school. with some you have no option but to travel miles from home. doing any degree at say oxford is far removed from doing the same one at say huddersfield for yourself and your CV. however i still stand by what i wrote earlier. if the course you wanted was available local and they were told it was that or nothing i still wonder if the uptake would have been as high as it would be.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1246326]
Its worth remembering that as a result of the funding changes for students that occured some years ago (can not remember exactly when) the percentage of students who went to their 'local university' and lived at home went up dramatically. I am aware of 1 student who commuted to his local uni, a 150 mile/day (bus miles involving 3 different buses) round trip and found it very hard going. Also a lot of his time was wasted as trying to do any 'work' (i.e. reading) whilst commuting was ineffective. Needless to say he took this option for purely financial reasons, and I'm glad to say did get a degree although he was nearly broken by the effort he had to put in to do it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Monkey Hanger, the graphs are meant to bamboozle and they are meaningless without context.
It is like the polls that suggest that Scotland would win the next referendum because 52%
Would vote in favour....what it does not tell you(or if it does it is in tiny print at the end of the article) is that they sampled 1100 people....and on this small sample they have come to the conclusion that Scotland would break away.
I have only used that analogy because it is fairly current and explains the point.

It is pointless telling us how many people have tested positive for the virus if
A) we do not know how many total tests were done
B) how many were repeat tests(that is, done on the same person)
C) how many people are ill
D) how many people from the sample required hospital treatment.

25% of those infected have acquired the infection while in hospital for some other reason.

We should also be told how many people actually died from the virus....not this ‘died within 28 days of a positive test.
If they died as a result of a road accident or some other unrelated medical event, then these should be weeded out of the stats.

As someone once said ‘There are lies, Damn lies, and statistics’
They all boil down to the same thing.
We are being treated like retarded 12 year olds, not capable of buttering our own bread.

The thought of lockdown with no end in sight is enough to tip people over the edge.
Lockdown did not work the first time....and not because it was not observed, because it was.
It won’t work this time either...or if it is done a third time.
All it does is kick the can down the road to be dealt with later.
All this in the hope that a vaccine will sort it....I think that is a vain hope too.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1246333]

The thought of lockdown with no end in sight is enough to tip people over the edge.
Lockdown did not work the first time....and not because it was not observed, because it was.
It won’t work this time either...or if it is done a third time.


ever thought that these virus measures are also being used to get the public just thinking about one real issue and one issue only. with businesses closing down every day its obvious that mass unemployment will be on its way. we all know where this will hit the most. every so called lockdown will create someone else who close down with the job loss with it. if the general public could see into the near future where they can see how their lives have been shaped by a few graphs i doubt they would be as keen in lapping up news from boris, gloom and doom. wait till rishi washi,s sticking plaster does start coming off then people might wake up.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Lockdown the first time was NOT OBSERVED there were plenty of Dickheads marching for B.L.M. amongst other things,also plenty of fools and selfish young people doing other stuff. the only way to have a chance of it working good, is COME DOWN HARD on all the fools that ignore it, Money always talks.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Well, Cashy, my perception of it was that the first three months were observed by the majority of people...certainly those that I know.
It was after the killing of George Floyd and the development of the BLM organisation that Demo’s took place, largely in London, but later in other cities....but the first demo in London was the 13th of June...by which time some of the lockdown restrictions had loosened.(the lockdown measures were eased on the 23rd June).....so these demo’s were at the end of the lockdown.

It was inevitable that there would be an increase in infections once rules were eased....all that the lockdown did was buy some time.

Cashy, this lockdown will work no better than the last. People have ‘lockdown fatigue’...they are fed up with being under house arrest.
Coming down hard as you put it is not the way.
We have been promised test and trace, but it is a fiasco....so is that the fault of the government...or is the fault of those who want to go about their lives peacefully?


It is not natural to be unable to be in touch with family.
I will certainly not be limiting my support for my family members who need me.
If that makes me a selfish dickhead, then so be it.
I will take my chance.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Oh so true. I feel like opening the front door and shouting at the top of my voice "I've done the time, now may I commit the crime"


A few minutes ago while I was making a cuppa the phone rang and went to the answer machine before I got there. Huge dissapointment they rang off after the first word from the answer machine. The thought went through my mind that if I had not been making that cuppa I could have answered that and although it was a SPAM call provided I severely moderated my normal reaction I could probably have kept them on the line (and severely confused) for about 2 minutes or even longer. Its getting bad.

Dare I mention Christmas. I think Charles Dickens possibly got it wrong. Marley's Ghost wasn't embroiled in chains and cash boxes, he was embroiled in chains, keys and face masks.


Rant over.:thankya:

Re: Corona Virus
 

I can identify with that.
I have always been a law abiding upstanding citizen....but I am getting to the point of anarchy.
If I could see the sense in any of these badly thought out rules, then maybe I would feel differently...but I can’t.
The rules do not protect us...they only enslave and imprison us.
Since when has it been right to quarantine the healthy?
Who is taking care of my human rights?....please don’t tell me that this is being done to save me.....I think the alternative would be a better option....and I never thought I would ever think that.
If this virus is killing people...it is culling those that are old, unhealthy and probably would not want to have all of us imprisoned for their sake.
Look at the Barrington Declaration...see how many knowledgeable people are against what is supposed to be science.
Are you going to tell me that all of them are nutters, conspiracy theorists.
Look at the plan that Dr Tom Jefferson and Carl Heneghan has put together and tell me that it is not better than this.

I am not ranting...I am calmly stating what I believe...but that dies not mean you have to believe it too...if you are happy to be locked up now...and again in three months...and again in another three months.

Re: Corona Virus
 

The majority of people i know observed it margaret but i do the shopping take the dog for a walk etc quite a few i do not know did not observe it at all, in fact those that work on buildings and such things certainly were not in general,though the worst were young people you know damn well i aint labelling you a dickhead.in fact i think thats intimaiting an insult i think.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, you say it how you see it...and it means that everyone knows where they stand with you.
If you think I was intimating an insult then you do not know me very well...but there are others who would perhaps think I was selfish....
Like you I say it how I see it and my perception of the early lockdown stands...

the buses were empty...the roads were empty(it usually takes me on average five minutes to get a break in traffic when I go to see my daughter)...I could cross that road during lockdown at any time of the day without taking my life in my hands.

apart from the initial panic buying the shops were quiet too..because everyone seemed to be getting their shopping delivered.
Now if you saw something different...then I have to accept that.

What I do know is that I will be going about my life in a different way this time.....
I will do what I need to do to look after my family.

Re: Corona Virus
 

we attempted to get shopping delivered and were told we could have it in a fortnight, so obviously i declined and did it myself though i go for it between 6-00 and 7-30 at morning.i hold the belief that i am safe enough if im sensible, but have seen a hell of a lot that are not, those are the dickheads in my view.

Re: Corona Virus
 

we have not shopped online...and many firms were not taking on new online customers so like you we shopped early morning....mostly it was himself who went out and about...I ventured out only ten times from the lockdown being put in place to the end when resrtictions were lifted.
For three months I never went into Daughters house...just put food on her doorstep,knocked and left...I won't be doing that either this time.
My life has been put on hold for more than long enough...this is not living, it is not even existing....I am wise enough to look after myself...I will do what I have done all slong to protect myself.....as long as that does not mean I am incarcerated.

I will not be doing that this time

Re: Corona Virus
 

I noticed in the Mail today there is a report on how the government has manipulated statistics....how they have been offering figures with no context(which makes them meaningless because you cannot derive any meaning from them.
This is a mainstream media source.....so if they are now mentioning it, then is there still no cause for concern about the general agenda.

We are putting the country into the hands of a few men(four to be precise) who are making major decisions which will influence our future for generations.

The figures in context tell a very different story to the one we are being fed on a frequent basis.

Re: Corona Virus
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...king-down.html

And this too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-NOT-used.html

Re: Corona Virus
 

do your own graph in various colours and you,ll be guarenteed safety.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I would not trust my graph to keep me safe.
I failed Maths..although then they were called sums.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1246355]

We are putting the country into the hands of a few men(four to be precise) who are making major decisions which will influence our future for generations.


the quicker we as a country decide to live with the virus instead of fighting something that is not going away then we will always be living with these restrictions. how many tropical deseases like malaria are present in tropical countries where there populations realize they are not going to go away and just get on with their lives. seems china has got back to normal already. there is one and only one thing in the future and that is death. why should we have to live the years we have got left surrounded by so many restrictions. that goes for people of all ages as i say again the virus or some new ones are not going away even with pie in the sky vaccinations.

Re: Corona Virus
 

just rebrand yourself as an expert then you,ve cracked it. no one else will know.

Re: Corona Virus
 

think the vast majority did more or less observe the rules but might have moved the goalposts slightly like i did. found driving up to the moors like i did was against the rules but was hardly gong to increase the R rate as space was not at a premium. think the main problem was not protest marches but pubs re opening after the lockdown. drink does not help people from becoming dickheads it makes a good number into one.

Re: Corona Virus
 

When the bottom appears to be falling out of your world,then sup a few pints of real ale,(Hobgoblin in my case), and you will find the world will then fall out of your bottom. Stay Happy, Your's, The Hobgoblin loving Luddite.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i would agree majority did, but there was enough clowns to make sure it spread,

Re: Corona Virus
 

Those clowns only appeared when the rules became laughable Cashy.....some things you could do....but others you could not....and there seemed to be no joined up thinking....much of it seemed unreasonable.
And blame....it is not the governments job to blame the population when the rules are so confusing and contrary.

Once you have been locked up for three months....and the sun is shining, the beer is flowing...and you are in a park...open air = less of a risk.

The definition of stupid is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results....like the lockdown....it did not work the first time so let’s do it again, but first we will scare the bejasus out of the population with bogus figures.

The men in charge of this are really not interested in looking after us...they are interested in getting as many people as possible vaccinated with a vaccine developed by the company in which they have half a million quid worth of shares.....which will translate into mega bucks.

I do not trust them as far as I can spit.

Re: Corona Virus
 

From what i saw have to completely disagree Margaret

Re: Corona Virus
 

Here are some newspaper headlines....look familiar...they’re from 2018!
Two years ago.
With all due respect to your opinion, Cashy, was it dick-heads who generated those headlines?

Heard Professors Witless and Unbalanced today telling us that this latest (but not the last, I suspect) lockdown will reduce the magic R rate “if people comply”. So it fails, they already have their excuse worked out.
It’s all our fault.

Re: Corona Virus
 

most people i talk to know damn well its dickheads that caused this virus to spread simple as,

Re: Corona Virus
 

Exile, you know why it is our fault?
It is because it is easier to apportion blame than to sort out the problem.
They cannot accept that they have got it wrong..and are still getting it wrong because this Virus is going nowhere...and all a lockdown does is kick the problem down the road a bit.
How many lockdown will it take to convince them that it does not work.

Not closing schools(and I am one who hates to think that childrens education is going to be fractured) means that children will mix with other children who then go home to families...taking whatever they have picked up at school home with them.

The vaccine that is coming in December(?) who is going to take that?
And this blanket testing that is going to be done in Liverpool...all it will do is show positive tests as cases and make it look as though there are all these infected people out there.

At this time of year hospitals are usually around 90% capacity...the government waant us to believe that this level has been exceeded but in most hospitals they are running at 88%...but that does not fit their agenda at all.

It comes to something when this information can be obtained via the MSM.....and it means there is a growing resistance to the current plan.
They really need to ditch Whitty and Vallance in favour of Carl heneghan and Tom Jefferson or implement the suggestion of the Great Barrington Declaration.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy...who are these DH's?
have they got a name, an ethnic group..because in local towns where there were large ethnic populations the blame was laid at their door.
Is it those folk who went out and took advantage of the 'Eat out to Help Out'...or is it people you meet in your daily life?
Is it the younger generation who have been out drinking?(they were under the impression that they were at a much lower risk of getting this virus...and if they did by chance get it they would shrug it off.
I Know of people who have tested positive, but have had zero symptoms....and they have all self isolated(I know because we have shopped for a couple of these to help them stay home).
The people I have known to have positive tests have taken this very seriously...even in the absence of symptoms...
One lady paid us for her shopping with a note that she had sprayed with anti bac and told us to leave it in the envelope for 72 hours so that she did not pass anything on to us(this lady is in her 80's...but symptomless...i have contacted her daily to check that she is alright)

Re: Corona Virus
 

Well the first few months there were loads of asian kids playing out together no safety at all, i saw them daily a few times. trouble is people are too damn soft and dare not say for chance they get labelled RACIST. also there was plenty of white older people who work outside all grouped together not bothering at all. in fact even today there was 8 or 9 of these workers outside a butty shop having a good natter all in a group.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Children were not thought to be susceptible to the virus....and there is no record of the virus being passed on by children....this is what the scientists tell us.
The virus was considered to be something that affected those with medical problems, the obese and those over 80.
That said, it does not excuse them for disregarding the guidelines....but then the guidelines seemed to be a movable feast...they were confusing for many....yes they knew about social distancing and hand washing.....but the masks.....in March we were told that masks did not protect....then the government went into mask production and lo and behold masks were now mandatory.
There is and has been a lack of consistency, there has been a Covid overload, this means that people stop listening.....and if rules seem nonsensical (which they are.....and have been flouted by those who were advising us) then there is a very good chance they will be disregarded.

There is no way that I will do what I did for the first lockdown...I am going to continue to take all the precautions I have taken this far, but if I want to go to the shop, then that is what I will do.....I will not stop supporting my family....if they need me then I will go into their home.
I have not been on a bus since the beginning of March, not had a haircut, I don’t go to the pub...or out for a meal.
Yoga has been cancelled since March.

That this lockdown may not be lifted on Dec 2.....in spite of the fact that Whitty and Vallance stats have been proved to be bogus is a travesty.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I am well aware you will always play it as safe as possible Margaret, no doubt at all in my mind. also those with medical problems do come off worst also, but you dont have to have em to reach the end of the line with this i know only too well

Re: Corona Virus
 

cashy, if it has my name on it then so be it...but I cannot live my life in the shadow of a fear of something that might never happen.
I would not wish younger people to have their lives blighted to protect me...It is an unreasonable ask.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I have kind of changed my view on the lockdown stance. Although I think it's too late now and it's not going away anytime soon so the current lockdowns are pretty pointless, a swift initial lockdown would have made a hell of a difference to the death rate. The 'evidence' I would use to back this up is everyone's favourite example of Sweden. People here compare their death rate to ours when they should really compare it to their neighbours. When you do you will see a pretty shocking disparity. SWEDEN population 10million - No Lockdown 125'000 cases, nearly 6000 deaths next door neighbours NORWAY population 5 millions 20'000 cases 282 deaths. Taking the respective populations into consideration you are still three times more likely to contract the virus in Sweden than Norway and TEN times more likely to die from it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I have not seen those figures before.
Did Norway have a lockdown?
Sweden did not...so businesses and trade was allowed to continue...people were allowed to mix sensibly.
I would also ask if either of these countries closed their borders to incoming flights.

We continued to import whatever anyone was bringing in with them and no checks of any description were carried out on incomers.
When the major lockdown was eased they started talking about testing the people coming in to the country...but I don’t think it ever got up and running.

So the whole debacle was mishandled(and mishandled in a multitude of ways) right from the outset.

You are right though Jimmy, this lockdown won’t work.....except it was instituted on bogus figures and it is being mooted that the R rate is already down to 1....so maybe they will portray that it HAS worked...release us a little bit....then come New year when the Blanket tests are being done on everybody(or everybody who wants to have the test) in Liverpool show the infection rate is up, then we will have a rerun of this rotten business.

It is all calculated as a control measure.
They can do what they want.....and the people have become so scared that they want MORE of these draconian measures.

Re: Corona Virus
 

is it because you had a mate who died because of the virus that has formed your attitude to the general public whereas others like me who do not know of anyone who had definatly caught it are a bit more relaxed about their behaviour.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1246385]

We continued to import whatever anyone was bringing in with them and no checks of any description were carried out on incomers.
When the major lockdown was eased they started talking about testing the people coming in to the country...but I don’t think it ever got up and running.

there was plenty of talk but not much action with people coming into the country that might have brought it in from abroad. we all had to suffer restricted lives but as i saw it airports were not shut. i,d have thought that any travel in and out of the country would have been something banned from day 1. now the new talk is the experimental testing of a whole city, liverpool. if all the population fell in with this, which they will not, how will the figures be used and how will any figure control the virus anyway. more graphs i suppose.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Of course there will be more graphs, more manipulated figures which is a euphemism for lies.

Does it not strike anyone as strange that the areas where most testing was done are those that are considered to have the highest infections?
On Nelson they were stopping people in the street to give them a test.
People who were out and about doing their shopping were being ‘encouraged’ to have a test.
The next news was Pendle had a spike in infections.
They did not tell us how many were ill or how many needed medical intervention.

My daughters boy has required four of these tests.....being sent home from school because two of his study group had tested positive, though neither of them developed any symptoms.....he tested negative each time...but had he tested positive it would have been recorded as four cases of infection.
The test is not fit for purpose.
But apparently the test being used in Liverpool is an antibody test....so we will have to wait and see how that goes...but I treat it with scepticism that is born of experience of the shambolic way this has played out.

And please do not trot out the phrase that is over used and of little value ‘unprecedented
times’.

The government missed chances to do things that would have altered the course of the virus......I don’t propose to list them here as I have done it too many times already.
When you make a mistake more than once it ceases to be a mistake, it becomes a choice.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Believe me it'll be 100% positives, as Scousers, if sometning is for free they'll be there with their hands out, plus our tendency to "Professional Martyrdom" the result is a given! :rolleyes: :D

Re: Corona Virus
 

will put the some of the sources for those figures -

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...pe-by-country/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I think we should stop quoting Sweden as an example of how to do it properly and start looking at the countries that have managed the situation FAR better than them.
Of course most of those countries don't have complete and utterly useless parliaments which is probably the first thing needs changing. Also people who made some pretty critical negligent decisions (like sending people with Covid from hospital to care homes) should face criminal charges. I know hindsight is always a wonderful thing but it hasn't stopped people from being charged with criminal negligence.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Jimmy, I guess it depend on how you define success.
Any country that went into lockdown automatically trashed their economy.
Put their population into hock if you like.
Sweden did not do that.
They carried on almost normally.
People were allowed to take responsibility for their actions and I know that their population is a lot smaller but in my mind they dealt with the virus by allowing people to be exposed to other things.

Right now there is a rise in figures...and this is all over.
Here the flu and pneumonia deaths have ceased to be recorded.....and I was asking an ex colleague why she thought this was the case.....she told me that any respiratory deaths were now being added to the Covid stats.
Now I cannot prove that this is happening....I certainly cannot say it is happening all over the country, but I am sceptical of the stats anyway....stats (as I am sure you know) can be manipulated to show what the person commissioning wants them to show.

I think maybe the exception to this is ONS stats

Looking at what we have been expected to swallow in regard to statistics, there has been a bit of back pedalling going on.

I know a number of people who have tested positive....none have gone on to develop any illness....the counting of tests in the absence of symptoms and counting them as cases is the biggest hoax.
It is designed to keep the population compliant while our economy goes to the dogs and we rack up a debt that will take as long to pay off as the debt for World War Two.
Austerity.....we think we experienced austerity.....we will know what austerity is when the reckoning comes....though maybe I will be circling in the ether by then.

Re: Corona Virus
 

think they use austerity now as a technicality and not something some of us lived through as kids. even that must have been better for many as the 30,s must have been and that better than the victorian era where working people were really slaves without em being called that. even those better off by working for someone like josiah salt had good housing but had to tow the line at work, go to church and have restricted lives worse than any restrictions we are having at the moment.

Re: Corona Virus
 

And as for the hospitals being ‘pulled out’...my daughter went for some blood tests last month and the corridors were empty of people(I posted a picture of it)...well she had to return for a repeat of that this Wednesday.
The consultant had just three patients in his clinic.
A nurse was heard to say to a Sister ‘please find me something to do’.....so do you believe what the politicians are telling us or do you believe what you see and hear.

They re-opened the Nightingale units that were mothballed early on in the pandemic...this was when we were being given ridiculous projected death figures.
These stand empty and are now being re-purposed as Track and Trace centres.

Re: Corona Virus
 

the thing with hospitals and the lack of use in any of their facilities is that they will close these facilities if they are deemed quiet and poorly used and you have to travel further for your treatment. a good example was the maternity ward of the hospital in rugby that had not been long built. rugby, with nearly double accringtons population, mums had to trail 10 miles due to a falling birthrate. no illness equals no hospitals anyway so the government cannot complain when we use em if they are infact still open that is.

Re: Corona Virus
 

It seems not that there is no requirement for these hospitals....there is...it is just that every focus is on a virus that kills 0.1% of the population.(or maybe even less if the stats were relayed with clarity and honesty)
Everything has been put on hold.
My daughter should be having three monthly scans, but in 12 months she has had only one of these.
Why?
Well because of the pandemic.
She has seen her consultant only once since her surgery.....has had two phone appointments.
Let me ask....how do you palpate an abdomen by phone, how do you inspect a surgical incision by phone.
How can you determine whether cancer has come back using just a phone call.
The support for people who have been given a diagnosis of life limiting illness has been very badly neglected.
Almost as if these patients are disposable because they are not on the Covid agenda.

Re: Corona Virus
 

well boris says the health service is open. well it is for covid. eye specialsts phone call. i give up. looking at the cost of going private. gone past the usual date i get for my yearly MOT at the doctors with a nurse. imagine its the same for all of us. its got like trying to get your car repaired. every garage says that we only do brakes nowadays and you have to wait for other repairs as we might get swamped.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Marge, there has got to be something wrong on the admin side of the N.H.S. when people like your daughter who have life a life threatening illness, are having the appointments cancelled whilst I have just received an appointment at the audiology department of Royal Blackburn Hospital for a hearing test review. I have not had one of these since 2005; Why now? we are being told that the N.H.S. is being overwhelmed.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Taddy, it is not true that the NHS is overwhelmed.
I know nurses still working in the NHS...I still talk to them...they still contact me to ask me things....they tell me it is not busier than any other late autumn.
They also tell me that any respiratory ailment that results in a death is recorded as the virus, whether it is or not.
They have been told they must not discuss these things with anyone outside.

As for why my daughter has not been seen....well as I said, this is a common finding among cancer patients...it is as if they are disposable.
How does it make sense to have a surgical team of 12 perform ten and a half hours of surgery to save her life when the follow up care is not there to support what was done.
This was a recurrence of her cancer, having been given the all clear just five months earlier.

She has to have regular blood tests, but cannot get these done by the GP....so she HAS to go to the path lab at RBH....this is someone who is ‘at risk’ and has been shielding.

Each time we have gone there the place is like it is on a quiet Bank Holiday....empty corridors and few people in the clinic(the clinic waiting areas are close to the place where she gets her tests done).

That is why I am amazed when they said they were opening the mothballed Nightingale units.....expecting 4000 deaths per day....that is what Patrick Vallance projected.....now it transpires that these Nightingale units will be used for track and trace(an expensive fiasco if ever there was one).....and maybe for vaccinations(if people turn up....I would never trust a vaccine that had been put together in such a short time....but then that is me....the conspiracy theorist).

Re: Corona Virus
 

well the news this morning is that they have found a covid vaccine. they all seem to be getting giddy about this. not too sure myself and would be interesting to read and hear from others on the subject with far greater knowledge than i have on it. all i can say is that when things sound too good they usually are the opposite.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I think the giddy reaction is to lull the public into a sense of security.
It normally takes 10-15 years to get a vaccine to the stage where it is considered 'safe' to administer...what has this been...6 months.
well I let you draw your own conclusions from that.
It has been tested on the young and the fit(not sure how many...and that is an important thing to consider)...and nothing can be known of any long term side effects.

What worries me the most is that the manufacturers and the people administering this will have immunty against any litigation...both civil and criminal.

Re: Corona Virus
 

There were 43,538 participants in the vaccine trials.
Pfizer are applying for Emergency Authorisation of Use for this vaccine.
It is not a conventional vaccine...it is an RNA(Ribonucelic acid) vaccine(look this up).
I am saying nothing else about this other than to suggest that you research the concerns about the long term effects of RNA vaccines.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Information from the manufacturer.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...didate-against

Re: Corona Virus
 

More stuff to help you decide.

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/...-vaccines.html

The scientists freely acknowledge that they do NOT know the long term effects of a modified RNA vaccine and that this will be the first vaccine of this type
.
So do you want to be a global guinea pig?

Re: Corona Virus
 

i believe none of the companies can be brought to account if owt happens long term its nowt new to me,but if yeh got to have one to be allowed to do things yeh happen to love, then myself will certainly have it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

so you are saying you will have it if it is made compulsory by the back door(meaning that you have to prove you have been vaccinated before you can carry out the activities of living).
The Modified RNA vaccine may create inflammation and an exxagerated immune resposne creating auto immune diseases in the recipient...auto immune disease are things like ulcerative colitis, diabetes, arthritis, lupus,multiple sclerosis, psoriasis...and more...
These are lifelong illnesses which can only be managed not cured.....and the manufacturer has no responsibilty towards you if they do cause these unwanted effects
.
(also if you get any of those diseases you are their customer for life...putting money in their pockets while you suffer)

You will not be told this so how can you give informed consent for vaccination?

Re: Corona Virus
 

i couldnt careless thats what i will do it would be my choice i dont knock anyone else for theirs simple as.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, you are right to exercise your choice.
I just hope that those who do not want to have it are extended the same courtesy.

Monkey Hanger asked for information..I have provided links to that information...what people do with the information is entirely up to them.
I am not saying that you should or shouldn’t...I leave that choice to you.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I am personally a bit dubious about it all, thinking of how long it normally takes for a new medication of any sort to be released for use, all the trials and tests that take place over a number of years. This has been rushed and I'm not sure how I would feel about having the vaccination. I think I would be very hesitant.

Also I do have a couple of queries to ask about the vaccine. Will it be like the flu one where you have this every year, or is it a one-off (though I believe two doses are necessary a couple of weeks apart) which will protect a person for umpteen years. The other thing is will those in charge who are pushing for it be the first ones to hold out their arm for the needle, leading by example? Just asking.

Re: Corona Virus
 

No Dorothy, this will not be like the flu vaccine....this is a totally new type of vaccine, it has to be stored at -70-80 degrees for a start(so what is in it that makes that necessary?)
From what I have read there needs to be two doses given(not sure how long between each one...the blurb I read did not say....and it was from Pfizer)
This vaccine does not use dead virus cells to provoke an immune response....or attenuated ones(that is virus that has been weakened) this vaccine is very dufferent in that it uses modified RNA(this is the stuff that is in your genetic make up)(where are the manufactures getting this RNA from....RNA can only be taken from cellular material.....are they dog cell, foetal cells or are they a mixture of a number of species).

Now RNA cannot easily be incorporated in our bodies....it can be broken fown easily, so Pfizer have come up with a neat wheeze, they have coated the RNA in nano particle of lipid(that is fat)....nano particles are extremely small and can be used for Nano technology(I will say no more about that here, but look up nano technology and how it is used)

This RNA that is in the vaccine will enter into your DNA/RNA.....genetic information that you body uses to make its own cells will have this ‘foreign’ RNA added to it....so you will in effect be genetically modified by this vaccine.

The problems that MAY arise as a result of this are inflammatory and COULD create any of the auto immune diseases that we know about....or it may create a brand new set of auto immune disorders.

Pfizer do not have a good reputation and have, in the past been fined billions of dollars.
Right now they are rubbing their hands because they know the populations of the world are begging to be their unpaid lab rats.....and that whatever the consequences are, they cannot be held responsible...they have indemnity from all litigation...and even if they didn’t you would have a hard time proving that your illness was created by their vaccine,

The couple who worked on this are billionaires (why is that relevant...well, they got their money from Big Pharma...so that is how important it is for us all to swallow this mush we are being fed....so that big Pharma can continue to fill their coffers...so that they continue to have a huge pull on our lives).

Re: Corona Virus
 

Sorry, for such a long reply...but I felt I had to tell you what I have read...some of it from Pfizer (freely available) documents.

Re: Corona Virus
 

think no.4 in the article is the important one. wish i,d had more interest in medical matters years ago instead of football, cars and public transport which i know quite a lot more about. however have corona virus,s been around in different forms for awhile. has a vaccine been around before now and just got tweeked for the present strain. have the public been put in fear mode over the last few months where the government know there,d be a queue round the block to obtain this vaccine once available. going from no news to all this news on the subject makes me wonder it really does.

Re: Corona Virus
 

thanks for the info. took some of it in but a lot was harder to fully understand. a bit like explaining electricity to a cave dweller.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Today the front page of the Daily Mail trumpets the news that three quarters of the population would have the vaccine if Boris has it first.
How easy it would be for the politicians to have a photo shoot that purports to be them getting the vaccine.....when what they might be getting is a shot of normal saline.

Inside the poll goes through the questions asked and the responses given....and if you swallowed those statistics then you would be crazy.
Nowhere on the poll does it say when the poll was done or how many participants were involved....so this is a very good example of how statistics are used to mislead( though I would prefer to call it what it is - lying).
If you are interested in those details you have to head over to the pollster website.....and there you will find that the sample that this poll was conducted on was 1016.....what percentage is that of the population in this country?
I have told you before that I failed maths, but I know it is an infinitesimal per centage....and as such is not to be taken as of any informative value.

They Lie.....and they lie for a reason...you work it out.

Re: Corona Virus
 

You are welcome....my later posts try to explain the implications that I have taken from scientific publications.
If it helps you to decide where you want to be in relation to the vaccine, then that is pleasing to me.

Re: Corona Virus
 

There are many types of Coronavirus around.
The difference with this one is that it is alleged to have been modified in a laboratory(The Chinese took out a patent on the virus the day after WHO declared it was transmissible to humans...you cannot patent something unless it has been manipulated in some way).

This is an entirely different kind of vaccine.
Previously vaccines used the pathogen that was causing disease in a safer form....either dead or greatly weakened to provoke the immune system into making antibodies against the pathogen...making cells to fight the invader is probably a good way of explaining it....teaching the body to recognise the pathogen.

This new vaccine works by adding modified RNA ( RNA is part of the genetic code your body uses to replicate cells)....so this new vaccine modifies your genetic code by adding a strand of RNA(it is not known what species this RNA has been obtained from, but RNA cannot be manufactured it has to be obtained from cellular material) to your own RNA.
This makes you genetically modified (theoretically patentable by Pfizer ....or whichever company produced the Modified RNA).

Re: Corona Virus
 

This is the poll...taken 10/11/2020.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...mber+2020.xlsx

You need to click on the index tab to see the statistics.
(Just to show you that I tell the truth)

Re: Corona Virus
 

I actually do not care whether people take the vaccination or not.

What I do care about is that people are given the relevant information about something whose long term fuses are unknown for a condition that is fatal to only a very small proportion of the population.
You cannot make an informed choice on misleading information...or information of a party that has vested interests.

Re: Corona Virus
 

to be honest long term dont come into my thinking, i know damn well i aint gonna be here long term.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Or trying to explain Internet Technology to a Luddite.:):)

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy...I know you will do what is best in your circumsrances and that is all anybody can do.

Like you...I am at the fag end of life, but what is left who can tell.
what I do know is that I want the rest of my life...longer or shorter, to be productive and healthy.
I have many reasons to stay in the best condition that I can.
I look after other people who are important to me...so I look after myself so that I can continue in that vein for as long as possible.

This vaccine is an unkown quantity when it comes to us oldies...so those who do have it need to know as much as possible about it.
This kind of vaccine comes off the back of some cancer treatments...and as you know my daughter has cancer so i have done a lot of reading of research...I have also researched the research(by that I mean I have looked into the who, the why and the commissioners of the research because it is not straigh forward stuff)
I have done more research in the last seven years than I did in thiry years of nursing.

for cancer patients this therapy is said to be kinder(but as these patient usually have a much shortened life span...it does not matter so much about adding mutant stains of genetic code to their DNA(it does matter, but not so much as changing the DNA of younger people who may go on to have children and bequeath them these horrible auto immune disorders.

I am not being alarmist...I am just saying it how I see it and how people are not being told the full implications of such experimental vaccines(NEVER used before on humans)

Re: Corona Virus
 

Taddy you need to come to my finishing school.
I DO have a teaching qualification you know!

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1246622]Today the front page of the Daily Mail vaccine if Boris has it first.




there you will find that the sample that this poll was conducted on was 1016.....what percentage is that of the population in this country?

Did they used to have polls pre the Norman Conquest, by eck Marge your knowledge never fails to astound me.:D:D