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Quite so my dear TadMeister, the same goes for educating your tastebuds, while I admit to the supping of Hobby Gobby in its' various forms is a pleasurable passtime, there is a vast cornucopia of blissful brewskies & astounding Ales just ripe for the supping & quaffing.


As a little prezzie for yourself grab & handful of "forn' Ales" (Yorkshire, east Anglia, Kentish or even Cornwallian) stick 'em under the Tree & do a boxing day blitz, who knows you may find a 2nd, 3rd, or maybe 4th new favourite! :)

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after all alcohol IS supposed to render this virus dead....so a very good excuse.

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If that's the case I'd assume I'm already immune & Taddy must be super immune! :D

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and such a pleasant way to gain immunity too...no rolling up of sleeves...no sharp little prick,just a few cold swallers.
Somebody tell Matt Hancock...get them pubs open for therapeutic reasons

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As my old man used to say when some one asked him what was his favourite ale, he always said, There is no such thing as bad ale but some taste better than others;);)

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yer old man said the same as mine taddy, tell yeh what made me laugh this morning on news the second person to have the virus injected today was from Warwickshire and was called William Shakespeare, cracked me up did that.

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Lets just hope it was not a new Comedy of Errors.

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I know the idea of giving the oldies the jab first is because they are amongst the most vulnerable, but they are probably also the ones who don’t mix with lots of people. The vaccine is to protect and therefore less people (hopefully) will get the disease thus stopping the spread of the virus. So why not give it first to the younger ones who are more out and about and mixing with lots of others. Just asking….

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,,,and to put a bit of lightheartedness on a very serious subject I will pass on to you the following which was sent to me:

'During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies. Does anyone know if there is anything planned when this one ends?'

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Going by reports in the press quite a few people seem to be celebrating the presence of this one with music and either beer and/or illegal substances.

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It bothers me that those oldies who took the needle yesterday are being lauded as ‘heroes’ today.
Maybe I am being curmudgeonly, but to me a hero is someone put into a situation that is fraught with danger and they either rescue someone or do something equally heroic....so tell me, is the subliminal message here, that there is danger in this action?
If that is what it is then we should be knowing.
If it is just a ploy to get the rest of us to join in.....then, perhaps just a Google Page Ranking stunt...not heroic at all

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Come on Marge, OK, you are entitled to your opinions as is everyone else but don't you think that your N-----s are getting rather twisted, maybe you will change your mind next year if and when the virus has been tamed.
Regards, The Luddite.

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1247724]It bothers me that those oldies who took the needle yesterday are being lauded as ‘heroes’ today.
Maybe I am being curmudgeonly, but to me a hero is someone put into a situation that is fraught with danger and they either rescue someone or do something equally heroic....

if anyother thing there was to put me off getting the jab then this was it. wonder if they will be in line for an award in the next honours list. totally sickening report from start to finish, but what do you expect from 2020. do not want to sound miserable but handpicking people out for a prearranged agenda is not reporting. same with the clapping some did but only with the cameras present.

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to be honest think yer both miserable gits, many people are really looking forward to having this vaccine im damn sure those who aint are a MINORITY,

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Except for the first eight words I totally agree.

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why taddy they sure aint happy?

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Cos there are ways of speaking and ways of speaking,

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I did notice that Cashy, Made me smile as well.

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Thank you Taddy...And no my knickers are not twisted...I'm not wearing any!


I was making a comment as to how the media are trying to brain rinse us.


The virus will be like the flu...it will be with us forever and we will have to learn to live alongside it.
If you are happy to have something that contains a substance not far removed from anti-freeze into your system...then so be it.

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Cashy., don't sugar the pill will you...oh of course I know you tell it like it is and for that Thank you!...you think I am a miserable git....and that there a re many looking forward to this vaccine....I am just ever so glad to be a miserable git because looking forward to soemthing untried and untested on humans is, to my mind anyway, a bit short sighted.
When I say untried and untested...what I mean by that is that we do not know the effects this might have down the line for a virus that is 99.2% survivable

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I am not UNHAPPY...just sceptical over the methods used to get the population to roll up their sleeves.

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reason i think yer unhappy about this is the fact yeh keep on and on about it, i for one dont need anyone to tell me how to make my own mind up about summat,and im not referring to life in general when i say unhappy.

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You are wrong... I am not unhappy, just wary.
You have made up your mind....and that is as it should be.
You do just what is right for you....and in no way am I trying to tell you(or anyone else for that matter) what to do.
I am making a comment....and when comments stop, then this forum dies.

I keep ‘going on’ about it as you put it, because there is NOTHiNG else on the forum to comment about.
Seeing as I know zero about Stanley...other than where the ground is.

Perhaps I should stop commenting on everything.

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i would seriously hope yeh never do that margaret,;)it just seemed that way to me, but then i aint bamber gascoinge

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You do not need to be Bamber Gascogne, only to have a comment and feel comfortable in posting it for others to consider....not to determine what THEY do, but to give an alternative perspective.

All through this thread I think I have been consistent in my views....my opinions, because that is all they are.

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It's been a while since I last posted, and I also tell it as it is.

Working on the frontline we are now seeing people dying that we did not expect. Younger people, generally diabetics or overweight. 3.5% of people who contract Covid have died. Now, as far as a pandemic is concerned that is a fairly low figure, however, the 10 -15% who are left with potentially permanent disabilities are hardly given a mention. One of those is my 49 year old, previously healthy colleague who has now been left with lung damage, struggles to walk her dog and has been told she will have to take Warfarin.....forever.

Pregnant women being delivered prematurely in order so that they could be effectively treated, therefore babies spending time in NICU never get a mention either.

I will be more than happy to have the vaccine... I'm actually hoping that by the time I'm offered it I will be able to choose the Oxford one. I have followed the making of this vaccine through my Covid app and volunteered for the trial, although I wasn't required..

On balance of probabilities, my age (not getting any younger), my regular contact with C-19 positive people, and my wish to get back to travelling, socialising etc. the vaccine's benefits for me will outweigh any risks.

So if you want the vaccine, you can queue behind me... :D

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good to see yeh posting again lettie assume and hope you and sparks are well?

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Aye, we're both fine Cashy, keeping busy. Hope you are well too x

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good to see you lettie...hope you get your wish...the travel and stuff.
My travelling days are done.... and even though I am at the bum end of my existence here.....I have far too many concerns to take this vaccine....you have a perspective on the pandemic that forms your ideas.
I know no-one who has had it...even though I know they have tested positive.....But you have to do what you feel is right for yourself...weigh up what is right for you.

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Heard that 2 people have had allergic reactions to the vaccine, so all you goodly folk preparing to get jagged make sure you're not in a "Dodgy" group afore you accept a little prick! :eek:

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they are probably remainers done it for a purpose they certainly were not OAPs.

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They were two NHS staff who had allergies severe enough to need epipens.
The advice is that if you have severe allergies then you should avoid having the vaccine.

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington; only to have a comment and feel comfortable in posting it for others to consider....not to determine what THEY do, but to give an alternative perspective.


getting an alternative perspective on this issue is needed to beat the main stream propaganda we are constantly faced with. no issue is ever that clear cut as is this vaccine. however listening and watching seems so clear cut about this. still cannot understand why veryone seem so keen and cannot wait to get the vaccine. if it was being rolled out in the rest of the developed world as quickly and with as much enthusiasm as it is here i could understand.

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i knew that that is what makes me wonder why on earth did they have it, when obviously they knew the score|?

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Perhaps they did not know the score Cashy...maybe it was suspected that this might happen, but not confirmed until someone had it.
we are not being given all the data regarding this vaccination....some of the volunteers who had reactions were (allegedly) taken off the research program(though I cannot prove this, I do believe it, because drug companies do not have to declare the worst responses, they only need to submit three good results).

Another thing that occurred to me is that those who have had the vaccine so far have been mostly the elderly...80-90 nowq their grip on life is short, so if they die in the next few weeks, will they be investigated to see if the vaccine was implicated or will their deaths just be put down to old age?

I know that seems to be a thorny question, but it bears the asking.

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i honestly cannot see how on earth they did not know the score it defies belief to me.if it was only suspected then anyone with sense would not take the jab if they are that thick what on earth are they doing in the NHS?

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perhaps you,ll get the complete opposite to what you got months ago. their deaths will be anything but virus or vaccination related on their death certificates.

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Cashy...when I say 'suspected', what I mean is that maybe the drug manufacturer suspected but the staff getting the jab did not suspect, because they had not been told that this could happen.
I cannot see anyone who has allergies severe enough to need and epipen, subjecting themselves to this risk.
People die of anaphyllactic reactions and as a nurse or health professional you would not risk it if you KNEW... they are very scary to see.


Now they are saying that all facilities where the jab is given should have resus equipment available(and I guess staff who are trained in reus techniques) because there will be some who do not know they will have this reaction

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anyone can have an anaphyllactic response to something they have never had before.

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All kinds of people work in the NHS...porters, cleaners,wiatresses, cooks, other technicians who have little or no medical knowledge Not everyone in the NHS is highly educated in medical knowledge...the report did not specify that they were nurses or quaified in any way

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if thats the case sorry, i thought i heard em say nurses? but then my hearings far from the best,

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Just been told that my ex next door neighbour (who still does or did live in the village) has died of Covid 19. My youngest daughter, her husband and three children have all tested positive for the virus and are having to "self Isolate.
I think that I shall have to Self Goblinate,
Regards the Luddite.

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My next door neighbour tested positive....and her son too, but neither of them had any symptoms and they remain well.

Taddy, I think self Goblinating is a fine excuse to open a bottle or three.

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Regarding allergies. Before a doctor gives some specific medication they will ask you if you are allergic to it, or to any of it’s ‘ingredients’. My question is, how do you know unless you have had this medication or any of the ingredients before?

Regarding people with allergies to certain things being warned not to have the Pfizer vaccine injection at the present time, I wonder if they will be given a full list of what goes into it – in words that the general public can understand - so that they will know if it will be dangerous for them.

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dotti, as you say...sometimes you do not know you are allergic to something until you have it.

When I was working there were certain vaccines that we were strongly encouraged to have.
We were always made to wait in the Nurses home for twenty minutes after the injection to ensure that we did not suffer a reaction.....though if we had done, then the Docs would have to hurry to the nurses home to deal with you.

As for finding out what goes into the Pfizer jab....I don't think we will be told that...but it has Polyethylene glycol in it and it suggested that 70% of people will have some reaction to this.

I have read that the trials of the vaccine being developed by the University of Queensland have been suspended because of adverse reactions to it.

But for the trusting souls....you can have my dose too if you want.

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nowt to do with trust i reckon this vaccine beats the hell outa covid if yer unlucky enough to get it. simple as.

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Cashy, you must trust it or you would not have it...and as I have said before...you do what is best for yourself.

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mentioning allergies, i really doubt there are many of us about who have not got one or more. her in the kitchen is bad if she touches nettles. i cannot eat bananas or garlic without being sick shortly after. if i,d never eaten these i would not know. how many other things could affect me that i have not come into contact with yet.

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why? i think my odds are better having it and probably will give me more choice, my going away will not be knackered.

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As I said Cashy, you do what supports your views and your life.....but if you did NOT trust this vaccine....if you thought it might do you harm, then I am sure you are savvy enough to decide otherwise.

We all do what is best for us....and I get that you wish to have the freedom to travel.

I have no desire to fly off anywhere....and my level of trust in what we are told(based on the lies that we have been fed since all this began) is very low.

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Thirty odd years ago I was prescribed Salbutamol for a chest infection,after taking the first couple of them Hazel seemed to notice a glazed look in my eyes and a change in my personality, she followed me into the kitchen and watched as I picked up a knife and for no reason hurled it at the kitchen wall where it bounced off in stuck into a bowl of fruit.
After getting me to lie down for a while, (I actually fell asleep), she asked me if I could remember the incident; "what incident", I asked, I did not remember a thing about it
After getting an emergency appointment with my G.P. (who I knew personally), His only comment was " Mick, It does effect some people that way, stop taking the Salbutamol and make a note to tell anyone who asks that you are alergic to it. The fact that I could well have murdered Hazel without having any recollection of it was frightening.
He remained my G.P. and friend until he retired but I made a point of reminding him of the incident for many years after.

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I have a number of allergies...mainly to antibiotics....but you do not know what you are allergic to until it is given to you.
Obviously, I alert medical staff to these allergies....so my risks are moderated.

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Yes, Margaret, trials of the vaccine that was being developed by the University of Queensland have been abandoned and the contract for the supply of fifty-one million doses ordered by the Government has been terminated. This vaccine contained a very small amount of HIV protein and there have been some false positive HIV test results in a number of trial participants..

It has been emphasised that these ARE false readings and the health of the participants has not been put at risk. A statement was issued that the government was worried that public confidence could slip and do not want to risk Australians rejecting having the jab out of HIV fears – despite these being false positives. So they will not be using this particular vaccine.

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so they have been passed in Canada and Merkel says Germany will be passed by xmas are all countries telling lies? somehow i doubt it.:rolleyes:

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Cashy....did I say they were telling lies?
They just are not telling the whole story.....it is not in their interests to do so.

Remember ALL these drug companies have legal protection against being sued....immunity against litigation.....and that immunity is 100% Cashy.

Which drug companies have had their vaccines passed for use in Canada and Germany??

It certainly is not Glaxo Smith Kline as their current vaccine is not set to be released until the end of 2021 because it does not provoke an immune response in the older person....the target group.

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The university of Edinburgh has found five genes which predispose to bad outcomes in Covid 19.
People with these genes are less likely to recover or are more likely to need ventilation and have long term effects if they do recover.
This discovery means that treatment can be formulated that cover these people....and will protect them.

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Surely the folk who are following this discussion, (the majority being not so young). can remember being given a lump of sugar at school that contained (whatever), vaccines in one form or another has, (I believe).Iradicated Polio worldwide, The vaccines have almost Iradicated Whooping Cough, Measles, Chicken Pox and many other killer diseases. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. Take it or take your chanches.

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Back then the vaccines were different Taddy.
I don’t think these were formulated in eight or nine months....and I will stand corrected, but I do not think the vaccine producers required legal indemnity.
So, I will take my chance.

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is it not the same for every vaccine? im under impression it is, i have had the flu since it was capsules, before it came a needle, i found it great for me, its like you say its whatever suits,

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Cashy the vaccines are different....which is why some of them have not yet gained emergency approval.
I am not aware of a flu vaccine in a capsule.

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The flu vaccine has been used as an injection since the 1930’s.
In 2018 there were moves to make an oral version of the flu vaccine....but I don’t know what happened to that.

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yeh twas in the 80s margaret they used yo issue them at work i know they are different but as far as im aware all have a "Get out of Jail Free Card" with them i have looked at vaccines since the capsule and am happy as i can be with them, they were 2 coloured capsules a couple of one colour and the rest another,

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[QUOTE=taddy;1247829]Thirty odd years ago I was prescribed Salbutamol for a chest infection,after taking the first couple of them Hazel seemed to notice a glazed look in my eyes and a change in my personality, she followed me into the kitchen and watched as I picked up a knife and for no reason hurled it at the kitchen wall where it bounced off in stuck into a bowl of fruit.


have a mate who was at halifax town at the time so obviously fitter and healthier than most who took one of those Night Nurse things at night due to having a feaverish cold. something must have happened to his mind during the night as his wife found him in the kitchen having a pee on the floor. by all accounts he seemed wide awake and he said he was told he had to do it. how many thousands have taken this without reaction. i for one would be more happy taking a jab if there was recorded details of side affects than one at the outset where none were. as for belief in the product or any product. 5 years ago you might have believed much more than you do now after months of lies and half truths where you spend hours looking for the truth.

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The lies we have been told thus far is what makes me chary.

Anyway, mass testing is being rolled out in Blackburn soon.....so what that will do to the infection rate is anybody’s guess...but I hardly think it will be a downward trend.
This is the same mass testing that they were using in Liverpool.

Also, it is being reported in the popular press that dozens of GP’s are declining to be involved in vaccinations...they are citing ‘pressure of time’.
I can only assume(never good to assume) that this might be because those having the jab have to be observed for fifteen minutes to check no undesirable events occur.

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I must say I've not seen that in the local news Cashy, I know they've organised several vaccination centre within the last week or so though.


https://www.dw.com/en/whos-next-as-c...nes/a-55919932

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believe the yanks have passed it now? thing is i was listening to a debate the other week they where saying the reasons its took only a short while to formulate this vaccine, twas good enough for this kid anyway.:)

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Well, of course they are going to give reasons why it was formulated so quickly....but if they consider it to be truly safe, then why are they insisting on indemnity from litigation...??.in all countries that are going to use it?
Big Pharma have no interest in keeping you safe Cashy...they are only interested in making a lot of money...nothing more.

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dont dispute that but yeh aint answered my question, i asked aint that been the same with all vaccines

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No, not all vaccines are given indemnity from litigation....unless of course you mean that are all Covid Vaccines immune from litigation and the answer to that is YES...of course they are, but that is the only way that they are similar.

And for you have said that long term consequences h@ve no fear for you because of your age, but for younger people we cannot know what the long term consequences will be.
The biggest worry for women will be any effect that it may have on their fertility.
There is some concern that it may affect the development of the placenta....and until there is more information about the safety in relation to this, then it may reduce the take up of the vaccine.

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Cashy...I know that placental development will not be an issue for you.

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that matters not i wanted to know if i had heard correct?

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After counting the letters in Placental, I realised that there are exactly the same number as Hobgoblin; Will they both have the same development issues. (just a thought).;);)

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I doubt it Taddy....not in your lifetime anyway!

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still no answer, now that does suprise me.

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Cashy, was that directed to me? Or was it to D in G?
If it was to me, then I am not entirely sure what the question was.
I do not know what you have heard.....
You know that I answer questions(if I know the answer, that is....if I don’t then I go away and look) promptly.

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See my post 1469....and I did ask you if that was what you meant.
If you were asking if all of the Covid vaccines are the same....well, then the answer to that is no they aren’t.
The Oxford vaccine is a recombinant vaccine....as far as I am aware most of the others are
Modified messenger RNA vaccines.(this is true of the Moderna vaccine which is looking like it will get authorisation in the US very soon)
I can’t tell you what the Russian Sputnik vaccine is as there is little information about it...likewise the Chinese vaccine.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

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The Chinese vaccine uses inactivated particles of viral proteins to stimulate an immune response...the Sputnik is a recombinant vaccine like the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine which is why there is talk of combining the two.
The advantages of the Sputnik and the Astra Zeneca and the Chinese vaccine is that they need just a normal refrigerator to store them.
Now that is as much as I know....but you have made your choice, so it is all academic anyway.

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everyone will do what they reckon is the best for them cant see owt wrong with that at all.

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No, neither can I. And I have said that numerous times.

Did I answer your query though?
Was that the answer you were looking for or was it something else?

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no i probably didnt put it right, what i was asking was did yeh see the debate i was on about which stated that this vaccine was similar to some previous ones which is why it was done so quickly. it said loads of other stuff but i cant sodding remember what lol, neither you nor i will change our minds on what we will do thats a knocking bet. i gather obviously you never saw it then.

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I did not see the debate and this vaccine is not like many others in that it has NEVER been used on humans before.
So, not like other vaccines other than it is a jab and it goes in your arm.
It is a modified messenger RNA vaccine and this will be the very first time it has been administered to humans.
The question you posed was not clear and I did not know what you were asking.

For people to make informed choices they need to have the appropriate information and right now that cannot be supplied effectively as the scientists who formulated it have no idea what it might do in the long term.
But to big Pharma that dfoesn't matter too much..if it makes people ill or causes long term problems then it is just more cash in their accounts.
Now that might sound cynical but if I am going to be having something that has unkonwn long term effects( and that long term means maybe five years away) than...well...You cannot balance risks you know nothing about, that scientists do not know about...but guess it is all going to be alright. No not for me thank you very much...and for an infection that had a 99.2% recovery rate.
But for those who have weighed these issues and are happy with them...then go for it.

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it said something like the ingredients or summat had been used in other viruses ,so basically they had a good start,sorry my memories crap and cant remember much of it. by the way these were independant of those that worked for them

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difficult to comment on what you heard when I did not hear it myself....and that you cannot remember much of the details(that is what getting older does to you)

I have read a lot about the vaccines(some of it from the former CEO of Pfizer...and other medically qualified eminent people)...and what I have read does not inspire me.

But that is Ok...because the more people who have the vaccine then the less risk there is to me...and if those who have the vaccine are happy to have it, then that is also fine...because I will be no risk to them because their vaccine shield protects them from anything that I might(or might not) have.

I just do not want those who have the vaccine to get antsy about me and those like me who have no desire to be vaccinated...or to see us as selfish...because we are not that at all...and pose no risk by remaining unvaccinated.

i am less afraid of Covid than I am of the vaccine.

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that im afraid is one of the daftest comments i have ever heard.and i dont base that on any vaccine at all.

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My cousin who lives in Poulton le Fylde and is 84 had the vaccine last Friday afternoon.
This afternoon (Monday) he told me that as yet he has no reactions. I'm 82 in February and when I get the invite to have the vaccine I will more than likely go ahead and have one. Then again I might?????

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Cashy, it is good of you to enlighten me and tell me that I am daft.(and I know that is not what you said, but you implied it)
Now forgive me, but I have my own opinions....and you(nor anyone else) needs to subscribe to them.
We are all entitled to have opinions and we are entitled to express them here.
I am totally honest.
I am not in the habit of going with the flow. I think through my actions(and in saying that I am not implying that you do not) and I thought we had come to an agreement that people do what is right for them.

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Gremlin, it is not the short-term effect that worries me, though I'm glad to hear that your cousin is doing ok after receiving the jab. It is the long-term effect. Not that this would probably apply to me personally as I am even older than you (AND Cashy) but I worry about the younger people who have the vaccination. We all know that the reason why normally new vaccines and drugs are tested and reactions observed for sometimes 5 years and even longer is because unforeseen reactions and problems can occur and have to be fixed before the drug is put on the market. The old adage 'better to be safe than sorry' applies.

I sincerely hope that there are no adverse effects (especially serious ones) that appear when it's too late to do anything about them, but let's face it, this vaccine is really still only in an experimental stage going off past procedures.

I think I will have to think long and hard before I put out my arm for the jab, but isn't it great that we can make up our own minds as to what to do.

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might have to wait longer and think harder now that it seems the virus has mutated and the present vaccine is no good for this.

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This was always likely to happen.....and this is why the flu vaccine has to be given every year.
Every year the flu virus mutates and the vaccine is made to cover the viruses that were prevalent in the previous Southern Hemisphere winter....which is why their actions are sometimes less effective in preventing the flu here....by the time it gets here it has mutated further.
So the flu vaccine might protect you, but then again it might not.....a bit like playing roulette.

To take sensible precautions to protect yourself during the flu season is what is required....wash hands, vit D...vit C, alcohol/ chlorhexidine mouthwash as a gargle....will all help.
Masks do not, because as previously noted, the virus is too small to be captured by any mask on the market for the general public.
But then we have been here many times before.....we are going to have to live with this, much as we do with seasonal flu.

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Well, that's me booked in for the first dose of Covid-19 Vac tomorrow morning.
After reading the MHRA report I am happy that it's the right decision for me.

Plus.... Bill Gates will finally be able to track me round Lidl!!!! Lucky Bill! I'm beyond excited! :D:D:D

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Bill gates should be the one getting excited Lettie....getting you in his sights has been on his bucket list for so long now:)

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Yet the German govt authorised 3xPPF masks free for over 60's & at risk members of the public, these they could collect from the local chemists as of today, just show your pass. (leaving it wide open to abuse).


Still they intend to get the Krankenkasse to issue coupons to & for the vulnerable from next year on, the release today was to quell the restiveness of the natives who will be going into full lockdown here from 00:00 tonight until at least Jan10th 2021. :mad:

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The only masks that will prevent the inhalation of the virus are the type used at Porton Down.....and the military have this type too...but anything else useless for anything other than a badge of conformity.

Re: Corona Virus
 

When I was in it was the S10 "Gasperator", made some folk look proper 'ansome when the donned them, better than their day face. :D

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seems we may have to wear our badge of conformity for another 12 months by what i heard somewhere. wish you could buy one cheap with something like that written on one

Re: Corona Virus
 

Here we go, plague carriers doing a runner from the "Big smoke" because of tier 4, getting their scraggy arses out of town to pass their contagion on to the other folk throughout the UK. Absolutely irresponsible & selfish, no wonder there is so much dislike for the capitol & its occupants.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...ansport-police

Re: Corona Virus
 

Nothing surprises me with selfish scum like those dave.

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Dave you do have a way with words, I wish that I was as verbose as you.;);)

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Tads mate ask father Christmas for a theasaurus in your crimbo sock this year, then just have a daily random browse, oodles of fun & loads of big words! :D

Re: Corona Virus
 

imagine if it was the other way round and us northerners were doing the same. they would be wanting the army out surrounding the M25 shooting us all to keep their capital safe.