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Now isn’t that a surprise....NOT!

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to modernise a scaremonger in my book is a village idiot.:D

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It's not as simple as 'Follow the money'....

I get free PCR tests every week because of my job, let's assume that you do not. Is it fair that I get to travel without having to pay for a test whilst you do not?

What about people using the free testing service pretending to have symptoms simply to get around having to pay for a test?

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[QUOTE=Guinness;

What about people using the free testing service pretending to have symptoms simply to get around having to pay for a test?[/QUOTE]

you have hit on something there. if anything is free then many will take advantage of it just for that reason. possibly this has caused the present NHS failures nowadays. too many timewasters. cannot see my parents or grandparents having this attitude.

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No I don’t get a ‘free’ PCR test but isn’t your argument merely accepting another step on the road to privatised medicine?
Wouldn’t another option have been to give everyone a ‘free’ test.

Not that there is such a thing as a ‘free’ service, we taxpayers (and those to come for several decades) are paying for it all.

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You can by-pass a lot of the pretend so-called security (that is often easily defeated), by avoiding an insidious Operating System that actively snoops on users and their every move i.e. Google Android (modified Linux) or Apple OS.

Do this by simply switching to a Linux (different Variants available) Phone in which you set everything how you like and it doesn't spy on you or pester you with ad's. You can clearly see all this at a Granular Level by examining the Source Code (not the Machine Code).

Yeah, not being part of the Google EcoSystem does have i's drawbacks. Not all App's you're accustomed (Brainwashed), to using are available and some others have Development Issues.

You can set concessions to set absolutely top-priority Google apps to work (e.g Maps, because alternatives currently available need work). As usual, there are many work-around's.

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Nothing to do with privatized medicine, that's a total red herring.. people have had to pay for a variety of vaccines for the 30+ years I've been travelling abroad under various governments, as an example try turning up at the airport (even pre-covid) to travel to Mexico without a vaccine that you've had to pay for..

And you negate your own argument.. you accept that necessary tests are not really free.. they have to be paid for by the taxpayer

Yet your option is that the taxpayer pays for my family to go on holiday this year because I choose to go to Venice instead of Whitby

Understatement alert! This government have made mistakes...this isn't one of them

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All the emphasis being placed on PCR tests is flawed.
The population believe, and have been encouraged to believe that these tests will determine whether or not you are carrying the virus.
The PCR tests are not specific to the Covid 19 virus and will prove positive in those who have recently had a viral infection of any nature....and this may have been weeks or months ago.

The rise in the number of tests corresponds with the rise in ‘cases’.
Except if a clinician received a positive test, but the patient who had the test had NO symptoms....the clinician would not call that a ‘case’....it is much more likely that he would question the tests validity.
The PCR test is an amplification test so if the amplifications are set high then tests will show a positive result even in a person who is essentially negative of the disease.

It would be helpful if the figures of cases were given reflecting how many of the positive results produced symptoms in those being tested.
But of course that is not on the government agenda...they want a cowed population because it easy to manipulate those who are fearful.

There is always going to be a variant that could keep us under house arrest....and now June 21st is being threatened.
Now, even Stevie Wonder could see that one coming.

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;

It would be helpful if the figures of cases were given reflecting how many of the positive results produced symptoms in those being tested.
But of course that is not on the government agenda...they want a cowed population because it easy to manipulate those who are fearful.

There is always going to be a variant that could keep us under house arrest....and now June 21st is being threatened.
Now, even Stevie Wonder could see that one coming.[/QUOTE]

its come down now to the population who cannot wait to tell people that they have the virus with positive systems. wether they have or something else they do not know. they are not ill but more under the weather a bit like they will have been many more times in their lives. its as if they should be issued with a badge because of having it and quickly recovered. any reports of a death in a nearby town is a news item if its covid related. if you die of cancer or a heart attack then thats it. only family and friends know about a second class death. die of covid after the fight you had with it seems to trump any other death we have ever witnessed in peace time.

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I know you lot in UK are doing far better than the rest of europe in getting back to normal, but I was proper chuffed yesterday evening to have my "First" draught Beer in over 7 months, out in public, amongst friends, yeah I know, nothing phenomenal or earth shattering ...... but the simple pleasure of being able to do it really is such a marvellous feeling. :)

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Even accepting your premise about the tests being flawed..

Your point is that the PCR tests show people who are likely to have a virus.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter if its a flu virus, a covid virus or mumps..you should still isolate so that you don't infect anyone else...and as you well know having no symptoms does not preclude you from carrying the virus. As for amplification, surely its best if the bar is set high rather than low (drink/drive/drug tests anyone)

It's logical that the rise in the number of tests will lead to a rise in the number of positives....clinicians have not been in a position to question validity, they have been under extreme pressure in an unprecedented emergency situation with no previous guidance or evidence to work from

I'm no fan of Boris but he is a liberal conservative who is not at all happy about lockdowns and restrictions. I really cannot see a hidden government agenda. I've checked the worldometer coronovirus website regularly and I think our government has, over the past 12 months, been more honest than most

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Here’s something that should bring a laugh. The other day, South Australia’s top health official was defending the decision to allow an Australian Rules Football team to travel from Victoria (where presently there is another lockdown) to Adelaide to play a league game, even though the South Australian borders are presently closed to Victorians. Anyone who has watched this game will know that the ball is handled as much as it is kicked and this lady said ‘We are looking at the ball and occasionally this gets kicked into the crowd. If you are at Adelaide Oval and the ball is coming at you my advice to you is to duck and do not touch that ball’. Right!

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well you know now where the firm Duck & Cover gets its name from.

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What a pathetic bunch of mugs we’ve become. We’ve scared ourselves into dumb obedience whilst our masters just laugh at our gullibility.
One rules for the plebs, no rules for the rulers.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/06...economy-burns/

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Yes Guinness, you are right.
The PCR test might show someone who has particles of viral protein....it does NOT diagnose Covid 19.
This does not mean they have the virus.....they may be remnants of a past infection....but it is not necessarily an active infection...of any kind.

Yes, people who are incubating illness can be infective before they exhibit symptoms....but if someone told you that you were positive for the mumps virus....or an influenza virus it would be vastly different to being told that you tested positive for Covid 19.
But, then there is only one way to determine whether you have Covid 19...or indeed have had this infection.....and that is antibody specific screening.

As for clinicians not being in the position to question the validity of the results of the tests....how many of those who have tested positive have actually been seen by a clinician?
The answer to that would be those who exhibited symptoms severe enough to get them into a hospital bed.....and not the thousands who are tested and get a positive result....are not ill....and seen by nobody with medical qualifications.

So yes...in that respect you are right...clinicians have not been able to challenge the test results.....We are going to be living with this for a long time to come.

We have been misled from the outset.....even the figures of death from(not with) this infection have been manipulated to keep the population compliant.....and to scare people into getting a vaccine which is not a vaccine at all......a vaccine prevents you from getting the disease and stops you from passing it on....this vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, it may stop you from dying from it....and it does not stop you from transmitting it.

As for there being no government agenda....well, if that is what you believe.
What makes you think that the sources you keep checking are telling you the truth?
A lot of information that we could view at the beginning of this situation is now suppressed....and if you do not conform to the global party line...or even question the global party line, then you are labelled ‘conspiracy theorist’.
They do not want any divergence from what we are expected to believe.

It will all come out in the wash...at some point. I might not be here to see it, but that matters not.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me....I do not really care if they do not.
This has been an exercise in population control and coercion.

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i do not believe that at all sorry.

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No need to be sorry Cashy.
I did not expect you to.

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this is not the first time people who have a different view have been silenced. this first started with the climate change debate. if a scientist agrees with the position they want to take they become experts. those who have equal knowledge on the subject are classed as kranks and deniers of the subjects they do not agree on. the majority of us have no clue whatsoever about many subjects but not allowing any serious debate on them just cannot be right. i,ll listen to both sides but do not want just one side of anything being rammed down my throat on a daily basis.

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I am like you, monkey hanger, I think a debate should be thought-provoking with views from all sides being listened to with consideration and debated/discussed intelligently, whether out in the general community or on Accy Web.

With regard to postings on Accy Web, in my opinion one-liners have no substance, no reasoning to them, other to say the poster either agrees or disagrees on the subject matter – but not why this is so? By not elaborating this makes it more like a survey (tick the ‘yes’ box if you agree, the ‘no’ box if you disagree) without sharing the reckoning. What does it add to the debate, to the thread – absolutely nothing.

Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions but to get to the point of having an opinion surely much thought has gone into it before we make comment. The postings that have depth to them by explaining the reasoning behind the poster’s opinion are the ones that I, for one, find the most interesting. They make for a good debate, a good discussion, they make you think - and wouldn’t life be boring if we all agreed on everything.

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think writing replies are actually harder than having a face to face discushion on a subject. i have always found it difficult to broaden the subject when writing and have been told in the past i need to put a bit of meat on the bones. just me i suppose where the other half is completly opposite in using 100 words where 10 of mine would do. thank goodness we are all different. well we are at the moment but the future aint that bright.

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Monkeyhanger...you are right about it being harder to conduct a discussion in writing.
You really have to think about what words you use....because there is no facial expressions you can go off when conducting an online discussion.
It is difficult sometimes to get the nuances across that a verbal discussion is sprinkled with.
I know this to be true because, although I try to express my views c,early, they have been misinterpreted at times...maybe because I did not choose my words carefully enough.
And some of are better than others at putting stuff in writing

I also like to know how people have formed the opinions that they express....alrgough, I try to respect all colours of opinions, because they have all been formed by the experiences in the life of the person posting.

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Well, after the last year I don’t trust this Government as far as they could be thrown, whatever their ‘agenda’ is.
But, at the predictable risk of being branded a conspiracy theorist, these are just a few questions the answers to which remain ‘hidden’ to me.

Why has a Govt of a country with 54 million adults ordered 457 million Covid vaccine jabs?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...red-by-the-uk/
Of course, it’s to make up for the cut to foreign aid?

Why, in March, having previously said he wouldn’t do it, did Rushi Sunak extend the Furlough Scheme to September when, at that time, June 21 was being peddled by Johnson as the ‘end’ date of all restrictions?
https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/extens...eptember-2021/
Clearly, Rushi just thought everyone should have the summer off work?

Why, also in March, did the Govt ‘call for evidence’ on the possibility of vaccine passports when it had already signed a £21m contract with HH Global for….vaccine passports.
https://inews.co.uk/news/government-...ntract-1023897
Gove forgot to tell his boss that it was a done deal?

Why are Councils advertising currently for Covid Marshalls with contracts to March 2022?
https://order-order.com/2021/06/15/l...l-spring-2022/
If they don’t, there’d be a lot of peaked hats and hi-viz jackets to send to land-fill?

Btw, the Workdometer itself clearly states that “For the COVID-19 data, we collect data from official reports, directly from Government's communication channels”.
https://www.worldometers.info/about/

As someone smarter than me once said, “ “Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”

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The label 'conspiracy theorist' is used, like most labels...to shut down any constructive debate...and is used frequently because people have no other answers.

I feel like we are in a morass of treacle....and for what?
For a set of statistics that have been misrepresented and manipulated and this is evident in one of the MSM newspapers today.
It shows how the government have cherry picked data and taken it out of context to make the situation look bleak...because that gives them the continued control.
Less than 1% of hospital beds are occupied by patients who are supposed to be suffering with the virus.......although it looks like the infection rate is rising, hospital admissions belie this and the death rates are 'flat'...but we are not allowed to ditch the restrictions as promised...and come the 19 of July what is betting there is some other variant.... the Bolton Variant, the Walsall variant...and we will be told without any scientific evidence that this variant is far more deadly(though we can see world leaders in cornwall neither social distancing nor wearing masks but they do not get infected) and is 100% more infectious(how do they determine these figures...my guess is they just make it up because they know they won't be asked for proof).

Anyway Exile, you are to be congratulated on your last post...it asks some really interesting questions....and at least this conspiracy theorist knows she is not on her own in questioning what MSM try to get her to swallow.

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Or...'It is easier to fool people than it is to get them to see they are being fooled'
I don't know who said it but hot damn...they were right.

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Erm..I don’t have ‘blind belief’ in anything, least of all a conservative government. I think I stated many years ago on this site that Boris was a buffoon, but god alone knows what would have happened to us with Corbyn and Abbot at the helm.

Lets give an alternative view to each of your points, assuming that they are true facts.

A. 450 million jabs for 54 million….this government ordered vaccines from almost every pharmaceutical company that was developing a vaccine ensuring that the UK was statistically likely to back a winner….surely better too many than not enough, isn’t it?

B. Extending furlough….lets suppose you have a small company that’s part of a supply chain, you need materials to refine before you can sell them on… you work with minimal cash flow..there’s a shortage of these materials because the company that provides them is not yet back up to full production or is in a country that is still in lockdown etc. Do you force me to make my staff redundant, putting workers on the dole and then cause me additional costs to go through recruiting and reskilling a few weeks later, possibly causing me to go out of business because of cash flow or do you extend furlough for a while enabling me to have access to experienced staff when things start flowing again?

C. Vaccine passports..again, as in ordering too many vaccines it’s a case of hedging bets, if other countries decided (especially the vindictive EU) decided to go down this route we would be prepared and although £21million is life changing for me and you, it ain’t in national terms, spending this money to find out if other countries of the world are looking at protecting themselves using passports seems logical to me, doesn’t it to you?

D. Covid Marshalls…considering that this virus will be with us for a very long time, and there will be testing and quite possibly booster vaccinations necessary from early winter onwards why would you not give people 12 month contracts?

E. Not arguing about worldometer…this website has been going for years giving information on a variety of things…..in fact you actually evidence what I said which was …’our government has been more honest than most.’ Personally I believe they have erred on the side of caution by using anyone who died within 28 days of receiving a positive in their calculations (which is clearly an overestimation)…Do you honestly believe the figures from China, Russia or even Germany?

And yes I agree that people with alternative views are being stifled and cancelled by both social and mainstream media and that’s just plain wrong.

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Guinness, I too am not making any political point. A pox on all their houses!

(A) that’s one hell of an expensive bet, seven times what you’d need, if all the ‘vaccines’ work as we’re constantly told! Like putting a pound to win on every horse in a race. But what the hell, it’s only tax payers’ money.
(B) Fair point, but it assumes firms at the start of a supply chain will return to full production BEFORE furlough ends, in order for other firms to be able to pick up later on. If I was producing, say, beer, why would I risk gearing up my production for pubs, hotels and clubs that may or may not be allowed to start up fully again?
(C) so, those who, using the right enshrined in international law and through the principle of informed consent, choose not to take an experimental vaccine will be excluded from society? Don’t recall AIDS passports when that ‘pandemic’ was all the world talked about.
(D) And will it be with us for a very long time because the vaccines aren’t, as Margaret has pointed out, not really vaccines? We’ve had flu viruses for millennia but never before thought to employ non-medics to control the public. Or will these ‘Marshalls’ end up picking up all the discarded masks that seem to litter streets today (funny how the council’s don’t feel the need to provide bio-secure waste disposal bins for such potentially lethal items).

I would like to think that any rational person agrees that it’s wrong to cancel open debate and to shout/shut down contrary views, but why does it still happen and why did Ofcom issue an edict to all media outlets last year ‘advising’ them NOT to deviate from the Govt’s narrative?

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I’m not arguing with your science… Labouring my original point, even though the current PCR or LF tests do not evidence the presence of Covid, it evidences ‘virus’…past or present it does not matter. The simple fact is that currently it’s the only quick way we have of quick mass testing and therefore the only way we can protect the vulnerable by asking people ‘suspected’ of having the virus to isolate.

And quite frankly it’s the young who have been carrying this burden, they have given up their everyday lives for 15 months to protect coffin dodgers like me from being hospitalized and dying with a maximum of two people wearing PPE at my bedside.

I’m sure that if we could take every single individual on this planet, isolate and test them with whatever scientific test there is that proves that they are infected with Covid we could eradicate the virus..at the moment this is science fiction and we only have PCR and LFT and we have to cope.

I really struggle understanding people who think this virus is an attempt by the UK government to soften us up for 1984 style restrictions, especially as this is a pandemic...i.e. affecting the whole world

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Of course it matters....when a government remove freedoms based on something that is inaccurate in diagnosing something we are led to believe is going to cull ridiculous numbers of the population.....remember those predictions of 4000 deaths every day.

The deaths that occurred were mainly in the elderly, the infirm and those with other serious health issues.
The average age of deaths in these people was 82 years....this country has and average life expectancy of 82 years.

We have gone far beyond the protection of the vulnerable.
Far beyond protecting the NHS....and still we are not released from house arrest.
Since when has it been sensible to quarantine the well?

If we look back to the beginning of this situation......those who were suspected of having this infection were put into District General hospitals for their care.....many patients went into hospital for other things and contracted The virus....not from their carers, but from other patients being treated in wards that shared the same air conditioning/ heating ducts.

Elderly patients were released back to care homes without the homes being notified that they were infectious.
PPE was woefully short for these care homes too....and I know that you know this because you too are in the caring orofesdion(if my memory serves me right).
So lots of governmental mistakes were made....and it was put down to an ‘unprecedented situation’....so we are supposed to let that go are we?
What galls me is that statistics were produced all the way through the early days, with very little in the way of frames of reference....we were given manipulated data....data that was calculated to scare people.
Deaths within 28 days of a positive test(that test that is not suitable as a diagnostic tool) were recorded as deaths from the virus. This was regardless of the actual cause!
I personally know of at least three people who tested negative, but had Covid recorded as the cause of death....why would the public be misled in this manner if there was not some sort of agenda.
From October the ONS stats no longer recorded pneumonia or flu deaths....they were rolled into the Covid figures.....so Covid recording meant that for the flu season there were zero deaths....never before recorded.

As for the burden being on the young...I do not agree that they have borne the brunt of this virus...but there is no doubt in my mind that they will in the future.
Everyone has borne some privation as a result of this virus and the government handling of it....those who have heart disease, those who have cancer and have missed not just follow ups, but vital treatment.....those who had to say solitary goodbyes to the people they lost...not necessarily from the virus.
The education lost, the business lost, the self esteem lost, the mental heath compromised.
All for a virus that has a recovery on 99.3%.
Any death is lamentable....but there will be many more deaths....Not from Covid, but from the consequences of how we dealt with it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Guinness you say you struggle with trying to understand those who think there is some sort of agenda.
What I struggle with is a government that treats the population like five year olds.
That lies to them.
That wants to keep them in cowed compliance....and that suppresses any opinions that do not follow the global party line. That wants to continue to exert control over their everyday lives.
We know that we are going to have to learn to live with this virus....so why don’t they let us get on with it?
I would therefore encourage you to look up the World Economic Forum and look at those who were involved in some of the machinations that have gone on in the last couple of years.

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Below is a startling graph from the US equivalent of our Yellow Card reporting system for adverse reactions.

This is the article, but it’s extremely long and repetitive in places, but might be of interest for anyone with children or contemplating having them.
https://trialsitenews.com/should-you-get-vaccinated/

And this is a more optimistic article, that suggests, at least in the US, the medical tide on Ivermectin may be slowly turning.

https://trialsitenews.com/unitaid-pa...ritish-expert/

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In case anyone is interested I thought I’d tell you the latest from over here regarding vaccines. A while ago it was deemed that people under 50 would have the Pfizer vaccine but people over that age could only have the AstraZeneca. That was it - no choice in the matter.. This was because the health authority decided that there was more chance of blood clots caused by the AstraZeneca in the under 50’s. In the past week there have been another 12 cases of blood clots linked to this vaccine, bringing the total to 60, and as 7 of these latest cases occurred in people in the 50 – 59 age group now the latest information is that people under 60 should not have the AstraZeneca vaccine, but only the Pfizer one.

Gives us oldies a lot of confidence – not! It makes it seem that it is all guesswork, what is given as being the correct information one week has changed by the following week.

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on the question of blood clots i wonder if certain individuals are more likely to have them than others and there is some sort of test or previous medical records that show you are vunerable to them.

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thats a good question i think, my moneys on yes. but i have no medical; background unless smoking a few joints in the 60s counts.

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shock and horror, people in their 80,s and above die. when they do i get the impression that there deaths are somehow more tragic than if they had died of heart disease or some form of cancer. said it over a year ago now that we,ll end up having a one disease health service where getting the virus seems to trump the rest. even the bbc give details of the millions waiting for treatment for the other ailments that are still available that have a bigger chance for all ages to die of.

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I was recommended to have yearly mammograms when something strange was picked up on my last one....I did not get one in 2019.....or in 2020.....and although I have received two appointments for this year, both of them have been deferred.
So you can imagine tha anxiety this causes....especially as after my last one I needed a vacuum assisted biopsy(done under local, and not two hours of fun).

My daughter has not had a follow up after her major surgery at the end of 2019.....she has had telephone appointments, but this does not allow for the stoma to be inspected, the abdomen to be palpated or the wound area inspected.

We are going to be seeing inoperable cancers and other life shortening conditions when the service do eventually return...that is if they ever do?

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If this is true, does what Hancock appears to be saying not worry anyone!
Why is there no mention of it anywhere else?

https://richieallen.co.uk/hancock-we...ne-refuseniks/

So, if Hancock has his way, will we soon have to show a Covid pass even to get treatment in the NHS!

Boris Johnson’s former opinion about him seems spot on.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I think he would be on shaky ground with that one.
The NHS is free at the point of service to all.....regardless of their health care needs.
Is he going to be refusing treatment to smokers based on the premise that they have created their own ill health...or drinkers, or those who are over weight.

It is against international law to force or use coercion to medicate the population without informed consent.
This is NOT a vaccine....it is a genetic treatment.
Everyone getting this jab is told that they can still contract the virus....and they can still pass it on.
There are only a few conventional (true ) vaccines....
Valneva is one and Novovax is another.
These do not use modified messenger RNA....they use particles of the virus which have been weakened in order to provoke an immune response.

The other thing is....if the vulnerable have been vaccinated then they are protected from those who have NOT been vaccinated......those who have not been vaccinated are at more risk from those who have been vaccinated(since they can still carry the virus and still transmit it)

If Matt Hancock want to deny treatment on the NHS, to people who have paid into the system all of their working lives, he had better be ready for some heavy legal stuff.

Re: Corona Virus
 

The lockdown restrictions were supposed to end on the 21st of June.....but they were pushed back for a month.....this was because the modellers who are responsible for making predictions about the levels of infection and deaths, were using out of date data. Can you believe the ineptitude?
Wouldn’t you think that something which has such a monumental impact on the daily lives of the population would be thoroughly checked out....by someone who knows what they are doing.

The numbers of thise supposedly infected make no sense without some context.
Just 1% of hospital beds were being used by patients who have(allegedly) the virus.
Those in hospital with this have a shorter stay and are less sick.
Deaths from (or with ) the condition are very low.....alas we are not party to the ages of these who have died, but I feel pretty sure that they are not young, because if they were, they would be used to further scare the pants off the populace.
So, for those reasons restrictions were left in place.
The latest MSM news is that we might get freedom on the fifth of July....but don’t hold your breath.
There have been all kinds of sporting events and these do not seem to have created a rise in numbers of those getting sick.
There was a meeting of world leaders in Cornwall....no real social distancing and there’s was some shaking of hands......even though a couple of watering holes in Cornwall have closed because the staff have returned positive PCR tests....none of the world leaders has gone down with the virus.

We have to get on with our lives...ditch the fear....because, what is to fear if you are double jabbed?

Re: Corona Virus
 

never forget all those demo,s that seem to be getting larger and larger. if the virus cases had spread the bbc and the rest would have been all over it don,t worry. as for the jab it was supposed to be the magic bullet that got us back to normality. does not seem the case as any old reason is being used to put the dates back for the end of the covid measures. whats the real need for this to happen we do not know as we cannot get a real debate about the issue. the best we get is people bleeting about foreign holidays, the leisure industry and not the real problems, peoples lives and a NHS service that should be named as the covid service with all the stories you have to find unlike the virus daily updates. the real problem as well that this has set a real precident for anything else that comes up in the future as it surely will.

Re: Corona Virus
 

It is coming to something when a MSM publication like the Daily Mail can pull holes in the data that has been used to subdue the people....and let me say that this data is not new
stuff.
It has been available to see on other alternative news sites for ages.......but when this has been brought to the attention of others it has been dismissed as ‘fake’.


But the government having some sort of agenda is ‘phooey’.
If that is the case then someone, anyone...please tell me what their motives are?

Bear in mind when you come up with answers that many of those in SAGE have links to big pharma....you know...those who will benefit most from the promotion of an experimental treatment that is masquerading as a vaccine.....whose long term effects we do not know.....whose side effects have been suppressed.
So if you tell me that it was all done to save lives.......since when have the ruling classes cared one jot about the common man?

Re: Corona Virus
 

Ok…You have a choice…

I have two people available to look after your elderly or immune deficient relative tonight.

Kate has had the vaccine and had her weekly routine LF and PCR tests come back negative in the last few days, Megan does not believe the vaccine hype and thinks the tests are pointless.

Who would you like me to bring in?

Re: Corona Virus
 

Either/or, Guinness. Kate might be passing the tests but there is no guarantee that she isn't somehow contagious as tests unfortunately are not always fool-proof and there is evidence that even a vaccinated person can still be contagious. Even though she might not have the virus herself she might have been in contact with someone or something very recently where the virus is - too recent for it to show up in her tests. Thinking she is virus-free might make her a bit careless. On the other hand Megan might not have been in contact with anyone with the virus or been to any hot spots. Even though she doesn't believe all the hype maybe she is extra vigilant with hand sanitising, distancing herself from others, and so on.

So who to leave the relative with - as I said, it's either or. Toss a coin.

Sorry Guinness, couldn't help myself - I was born with a wooden spoon in my hand and it wasn't for cooking with. I am a natural-born stirrer.

By the way, you might be interested to know that some people/organisation in America don't want old people to be labelled 'elderly' or even 'senior' as this might offend - according to them they should be referred to as 'older adults'. For anyone's information I am an old chook - and you can call me what you like.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Kate or Megan, some subliminal messaging here mayhaps? I'd take Kate thanks, not because of her being jagged & tested, but because the other one is proper little trollopy mare!


;)

Re: Corona Virus
 

i,m old and could not care less who knows or says it. a fact is a fact which even hair die cannot change. its words like senior citizen and being called say 70 years young that wind me up. call it as it is, a spade is a spade when all said and done. same with death. i,ll eventually die i will not pass, go to a better place or worse than all i will not be resting in sodding peace. if i can i,ll haunt anyone who says this stuff about me.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=DaveinGermany;1254670]Kate or Megan, some subliminal messaging here mayhaps? I'd take Kate thanks, not because of her being jagged & tested, but because the other one is proper little trollopy mare!


think if i was a woman i,d change my name now if it was Megan.

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I actually do not care who you bring in....because the elderly resident you are referring to was vaccinated months ago .....and if you believe that this treatment works, then it does not matter.
Whichever career you bring in poses NO risk the resident.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Looking at ONS statistics, the current death rate is the lowest it has been for 20 years.
750 deaths per 100 thousand residents.....but still we are locked up.
Covid is 24th on the list of causes of death(and that is if the recording of such is honest)....but still we are denied freedom.
But there is no government agenda (!)

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Yeah well, that's you off blm's Crimbo card list then! They'll be marching down your street next because of your "Ist" comments & attitudes Whitey! :D

Re: Corona Virus
 

Wish this was a fishing competition, cos I baited and filled my keepnet

Re: Corona Virus
 

But...you have taken great pains into evidencing why you believe that the vaccines do not work? You cannot have it both ways.

Do the vaccines work? Yes or No

Do the tests reduce the likelihood of the spread? Yes or No?

Do you want to be cared for by someone who has refused both test and vaccine?

Re: Corona Virus
 

Guinness you ask if the vaccines work - who knows, only time will tell. It seems to me to be trial and error, the worry being that an error might rear its ugly head in time to come.

It is a 'wait and see' regarding the possible reduction of the spread. Would that be reduced anyway if people did the right thing re hygiene and spacing? We are told that even vaccinated people can still be contagious.

To be honest, if I was really ill the last thing I would ask the person taking care of me would be if they had been vaccinated or not.

Guinness, you probably think I am being very negative about this, but how can a person be confident when conflicting information is continually being given out by those in authority. That is how it is over here, at any rate. It's like they are still somewhat in the dark about the effects (good and/or bad) of the virus and the vaccines, I just wish someone would switch on the light.

Re: Corona Virus
 

No, I did nothing of the sort.
Conventional vaccines work...but all of the current jabs being rolled out do not fit that category....and the companies who make them warn that you may still get the infection and pass it on...a true vaccine prevent that.
The evidence does not come from me...it comes from those who manufacture this product.As to the tests...no I do not think they do anything other than give people s sense of security(whether that is real or not...I let you decide that one because you will anyway.

And as to the last question...well did you not take note of the last time you asked this?

I do not care if the person caring for me in my hour of need has had either.
I just hope they will be competent, kind and compassionate.

And so glad you managed to fill your keepnet...because without your so called ‘bait’ forums like this would die....and you have stimulated something of a debate.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1254704]No, I did nothing of the sort.
Conventional vaccines work...but all of the current jabs being rolled out do not fit that category....and the companies who make them warn that you may still get the infection and pass it on...a true vaccine prevent that.
The evidence does not come from me...it comes from those who manufacture this product.As to the tests...no I do not think they do anything other than give people s sense of security(whether that is real or not...I let you decide that one because you will anyway.

well my head has been swimming for months now. the vaccine will see us through this was the line. well over half the adult population have had it and we are not much further near normality than we were without it. the reason for this is the present vaccine only reduces the risk of passing it on, being really ill or die if you get it. it certainly is not the magic bullet in ending the virus as a lot thought it would be.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=dotti34;1254696]

To be honest, if I was really ill the last thing I would ask the person taking care of me would be if they had been vaccinated or not.

did anyone a few years ago ask people if they had Aids or where Hiv positive when they were having any treatment whatsoever.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Yet you forgot to mend the whopping great hole in the bottom of it,so all your little fishes have gotten out, come the weigh in fella, you'll be standing with an empty net. :rolleyes:

Re: Corona Virus
 

How do you get it through to people that if they are vaccinated....and they must have got the vaccine because they feel it will protect them, then a person who is unvaccinated poses no real risk to them.

Monkeyhanger, you are right...we were all being told that the vaccine would unlock normal life.....and even though a great many vaccines have been given and many of the population...especially the elderly and vulnerable were double jabbed weeks ago.
So what, exactly, is the reason why we are all locked up ?

What about all those who caroused at the Euros....who came down from Scotland....jigged about, massless and not a bit of social distancing to be seen.
Will Wee Krankie let them go back home?
Will they need to quarantine after being on infection ridden English soil?
Just asking!

Re: Corona Virus
 

Be careful what you wish for, Guinness, some fishes have a sting in their tail.

Re: Corona Virus
 

these vaccines where rushed out no question, as far as im concerned they are ok, i certainly do not want to end up like my old mate,if people want to be suckers thats up to them. no one has the right to tell people.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, no one has the right to tell people what?
That they have to have this jab? Regardless of the possibility that it MIGHT not stop you getting the infection....and that it MIGHT not stop you from passing it on.
That you still need to take these PCR tests that are not an adequate diagnostic tool.
That this jab MIGHT have longer term side effects....side effects that even the manufacturers know nothing about...but are protected against ANY legal action being brought against them.
These jabs have not gone through the usual range of trials...the trials that are outlined by the companies that make them.....so we have all become part of the LabRat UK test program.
Even those who have declined the jab are included, because every trial has to have a ‘control group’ so that is their role.

Everyone makes their own choice about the jab, but those who have had the jab must have had it because they feel that it offers protection(of sorts) so why should they be worried about those who have exercised their choice, not to have the jab, because they feel it has been rushed, is not protection, and they are left not reassured by the fact that there is NO comeback if things go wrong.

That you feel they are OK is what influenced your decision.
Do not take away the choice from those who feel it is not OK...for whatever reason.
There are very good reasons not to trust those in power because they have not been truthful during all of this.

Re: Corona Virus
 

no one has the right to tell people they have to have the jab,simple as with me,if after they suffer consequences then tough. both ways,

Re: Corona Virus
 

So are you saying that if you were to develop.....say a clotting disorder that affected you for the rest of your life, as a result of having the jab...you would consider it ‘tough’?

I hope this jab protects you and you suffer no ill effects....and this goes for others too that have had the jab.

Re: Corona Virus
 

if there was a few more WILLS about instead of all the MIGHTS i might have a difference stance on the whole subject.

Re: Corona Virus
 

couldnt careless cos i do not think that will happen at all.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I sincerely hope you are right.

In the US there have been well recorded(and published) Unwanted Medical Events(to you and me, that means side effects).
Not least of these is Myocarditis in young recipients of one of the jabs.
Here, we are told by Nanny....'shush, shush...there is nothing to worry about' so that has to be alright, hasn't it?
Just because a drug company tells you something is safe does not mean that it is.
Primodos...
Thalidomide....
Both were deemed safe for years....it was not the case.
But as long as you feel secure in the effects of this jab, then that is all that really matters.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i take little notice of anything the USA says, i listened to a chinese lady doctor the other day who was designated to find the cause of the Wuhan Virus, which she did and discovered it was created by the lab,NOT in a street market, which i recall Trump said that and was denigrated for it? seems his info was correct, this poor woman has had to flee China and will never again be able to see her parents and family.she was on a video link from the U.S.A.i find it very funny the media has never mentioned this. probably cos they are against the truth coming out if someone they do not like say it.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy, there have been studies done in the Scandinavian countries by scientists there and they came up with the conclusion that the virus was a bio-engineered entity...that it had no naturally occurring genetic predecessors.
I read this weeks ago, but did not mention it because I am already considered to be a conspiracy theorist...so felt this would further fuel these ideas.

although you say that you do not believe what comes out of America, you admit that Donald Trump said all this, but was not believed.....like you said ...you do not believe what comes out of America.
The Chinese scientist(who I beleive is telling the truth) is also residing in America...so that bit of information came out of America too.

What you may not hear and may not believe is that there is a lab in Anerica(run by the military) that was linked to the Wuhan Lab where this virus was allegedly engineered.
So if this was a bio-engineered virus, then the Americans are linked to it too...and they definitely don't want you to know that either.


There is much that is concerning, but the British main stream media are not reporting because they have to follow the globalist rules set out by the puppetmasters who are pulling the strings in all this.

There was a Chinese patent granted for a vaccine on the day that china admitted there was a problem with the transmissability of this virus from animals to man...what does that say to you?
As for the incidence of side effects from the jabs...these are recorded because they are unwanted side effects(it might be a legal requirement)....like our Yellow card reporting system of side effects...so they are not dreamed up by politicians, or journalists...Exile posted some figures in an earlier post about these.
Like it said at the beginning of the X Files.....the information is out there, but you have to look to find it.
In the early dayas it was easy to find, but it is becoming less so because those who are making the rules do not want us plebs to know what their motive is.

Now, believe it...or don't believe it...it makes no difference to me

Re: Corona Virus
 

Oh yes, something else you might not read in the MSM is that the Us funded the wuhan lab to the tune of 3.17 million dollars between 2014 and 2019.
Riddle me that...why would they?

Re: Corona Virus
 

aye and what party was in power then.:rolleyes: in america that is.

Re: Corona Virus
 

well it was Obama in 2014...but I do not follow US politics...it is a mystery to me because their system is so different.
Donald Trump came to power in 2018, but the funding maybe have already been allocated by the previous incumbent...so I am not sure what your point is Cashy...maybe I am a bit dense.

Re: Corona Virus
 

we may not agree on this but yer far from dense ;)

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashie, I’m not quite sure what your point is either. Will we ever know the true facts?

If you really don’t care whether or not you have after-effects from the vaccine, be this in the short term or the long term, then so be it, that is your prerogative. I sincerely hope you do not suffer any. However, I think some of your comments are a bit flippant and I’m not sure who you are trying to convince, us or yourself.

I notice that you do accept there is a risk, as you also accept that this vaccine was rushed out in a hurry – well that’s how I read your posts. Have these factors not caused you any concern? If you really mean it by not caring for yourself surely you care about it for your loved ones.

Re: Corona Virus
 

you may call em flippant dotti i speak as i see things, many dont like it but i couldnt careless.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=dotti34;1254778] Will we ever know the true facts?


thats a bigger problem than the virus for me. will we ever get told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth ever again. having to search and search for alternative views on any matter is becoming harder and harder by the week. so many who do not follow the party line are having their platformed banned which makes the job harder. in the end all we,ll have is our own views against the media with no other person to discuss them with. eventually places like accy web will cancel posts they do not want to be read by others.

Re: Corona Virus
 

the problem is will we all be able to do that in years to come on every subject. somehow i can see us all walking on egg shells to satisfy the woke way.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i never will mate thats why facebook keeps banning me,:D

Re: Corona Virus
 

think i,ll go onto facebook just to get banned. if they did a badge i,d wear one in pride. by pride i mean the real meaning of the word and not the one stolen by minorities.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1254823]think i,ll go onto facebook just to get banned. if they did a badge i,d wear one in pride. by pride i mean the real meaning of the word and not the one stolen by minorities.

Oh I love it, keep up the good work

Re: Corona Virus
 

Handoncock’s latest breach of his own Covid ‘rules’ (snogging his Italian tottie in the office) is just another case of one rule for us and no rules for them.
If it will open, here’s an article listing just some of the flagrant breaches we’ve had to swallow and stay quiet and compliant.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...the-rest-of-us

It makes this even more apt….

Re: Corona Virus
 

It was ever thus.

Also Exile...we have to remember that this virus has intelligence...it can count...so anymore than six at a gethering and the seventh gets it.
It knows when it is lunchtime...so avoids those who take off their masks to eat.
It obviously can spot a politician and a world leader and has promised that they will be immune by the very fact that they ARE a world leader or a footballer...or a politician.
Boris said he would follow the science...he has NOT done that.

As for Hamcock and his episode ot 'tonsil hockey'....Maybe he is looking for a place in the GB olympics team in that sport.
We should not be surprised at any of this...and I do not for one second think that we are!

Re: Corona Virus
 

We are only required to comply with the ill thought out regulations...not question the motives of our superiors.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i reckon hancock being the health sec has got something on boris to remain in his job? all that cummings said about him i have no doubt at all now.

Re: Corona Virus
 

daughter and I have just been discussing this and she said exactly the same.

Boris is hardly in a position to criticise though is he?

Re: Corona Virus
 

The 'keepnet' was about me using Kate and Megan as pseudonyms for good guy/bad guy carers..and most of you missed the joke.

I'm going to bow out of this debate because too many minds are made up, all I ask is that the anti-vax and concerned look at the current evidence from MHRA...yep it's a government website but its the MHRA findings

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...card-reporting

Re: Corona Virus
 

I doubt anyone actually 'missed' your joke, Guinness, the reason that this doesn't seem to have evoked much laughter is probably because it wasn't that funny. After all you were using the comparison in what could be seen as a reasonably sensible question.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Monkey hanger, I’m right there with you - everyone should be able to voice their opinion, whether it is a popular one or not. Who is to judge whether our individual way of thinking is the right one, the only one? Of course we should not set out to offend (if ever I do this it is not intentional and I apologise) but we should be allowed to have our say and we should also listen respectfully as to the opinion of others, be open-minded. Who knows – they might be right.

Regarding having to ‘walk on eggshells’ why are we allowing this? Who are the ones who decide what we should be allowed to say (or write)? Mainly people who have nothing better to do than find offense where no offence is intended. Often no one has thought it offensive previously. I think it is a terrible shame that we even feel we have to walk on eggshells – and sadly it is getting worse, but only if we allow it to.

By the way, I will never be banned from Facebook because I have no intention of joining it. Why would I even try to when it is of no interest to me. There are far more important badges to wear than a ‘I am banned’ one. You are worth more than that.

Re: Corona Virus
 

the only reason i joined facebook dotti, is to keep in touch with friends i made when i lived in spain, its easy and cheap to keep in touch with them.:) otherwise i would not have bothered.

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=dotti

Regarding having to ‘walk on eggshells’ why are we allowing this? Who are the ones who decide what we should be allowed to say (or write)?

the ones who seem to decide this are all the different minorities. back in the old days where my views on the monarchy and religeon where regarded as minority ones i had to fight my cause without others with similar views all getting together being offended and stating our mental health may suffer if you did not join us.

Re: Corona Virus
 

No...I did not miss your point at all...I chose to ignore it as I do not consider this subject to be one of levity.

If someone showed me some evidence that I could SEE had not been manipulated....then I might change my mind about SOME things.

You quote the MHRA as a source...because it is a government supported body.

I am supposed to trust this am I?(that is a rhetorical question, as you no doubt realised)
Who was it, I wonder, who persuaded Doctors not to report the common or garden flu and pneumonia last winter?
So that Flu was not recorded as a cause of death for anyone during the flu season.

I read in one of the MSM yesterday that the MHRA are about to release figures of those poor unfortunate folk who have suffered myocarditis with a link to the Pfizer and the Moderna jab.
This has been noted in the US for months....but not a word mentioned here.
So forgive me for my distrust of those in government who wish to advise me of what is good for me.
Myocarditis may not cause any long term Ill health, but then again there is always the long term risk of heart failure.....something that is a life changing condition..
This is still a medicine in trial....with the whole of the UK being test subjects.
Whichever way you cut it, that is a fact.
We are #LabRat UK.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Oh yes, the Yellow Card reporting relies on Doctors sending these off.
Who knows what they have been told to do...for the right inducement of course.

Re: Corona Virus
 

I question everything and believe very, very little the government want me to swallow.

According to the PM we should have been free of restrictions by now....’get vaccinated’ they said.....so a huge number of people have got vaccinated.
‘stay apart’ they said.....so we kept to social distancing (all the while Matt Hancock was playing tonsil hockey with his doxy) ‘wear Masks’ we were told....yet the G7 leaders did not follow those rules.
Why?
Because they are the ones making the rules and can choose to ignore them.

Still we are not free to go about our lives.....come the 19th of July......what are the chances that there will still be restrictions?

Re: Corona Virus
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1254898]
Who was it, I wonder, who persuaded Doctors not to report the common or garden flu and pneumonia last winter?
So that Flu was not recorded as a cause of death for anyone during the flu season.

its really all down to trust yet again. people in general are more likely to put trust in people and believe those with a similar outlook on any subject. throught this whole affair we hear about those who die of the virus but very little of those who die of other things. then we are told that the average monthly death figures from the ONS are more or less the same as pre virus years. the two things just do not make any sense to me. any death has consequenses for family and friends but one that seems to be of a bigger sadness just does not seem right for me.

Re: Corona Virus
 

MH, the sadness is that those who had life limiting diagnoses before the virus, have, by and large been ignored.....and as a result some that might have had a longer life, with appropriate intervention, have died.
Not WITH Covid, but because of it.
There are going to be many more consequences in the future.
I am not against Vaccinations....but this is not a vaccine(by definition).
Those who have had two jabs still need to do swab testing....and we have seen how trustworthy that is when schoolchildren are telling their friends that’if they want to avoid going to school....the just dip the swab in fruit juice and it will come back as positive....and they will be barred from school for ten days...or longer if they repeat the process’

This is a test that we are using to determine who is at risk...is it?
Yes....so now you see why life has made me so cynical....and why I think we are all being played....and played for gullible fools.

Re: Corona Virus
 

once the vaccinations first came about i cannot remember the words like catching it stops you being very ill, lessons your chance of passing it on to others and so on. it was at the outset seen as a magic bullet to end the virus if the vast majority got jabbed and we,d be all back to normal eventually later in the present year. another unrealistic promise me thinks. suppose as well its only the unvaccinated thats getting the new variant. if that was the case the media would be shouting this from the rooftops where all refusers would be required to wear a muzzle of a different colour or a patch sown on our coats in pre war practise.

Re: Corona Virus
 

The next time I need to whitewash the outside dunny I must get the MHRA to do it.

A summary entitled “Coronavirus vaccine - weekly summary of Yellow Card reporting” starts with “ At the time of this report, over 127,954 people across the UK have died within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus (COVID-19)….Vaccination is the single most effective way to reduce deaths and severe illness from COVID-19”.

There’s an unbiased start then.

And further down we read that 1,375 Yellow Card reports of DEATH have been received (as Margaret and others suggest this is the ones doctors can be bothered to report) but “ The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca has increased rapidly and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. “

So, it doesn’t matter. They were old, they die, move on.

And yet, whenever the elderly, infirm, or otherwise compromised people died within 28 days of a positive test (another “temporal association” plucked from where?) it was definitely Covid what got ‘em.

Science, my arse.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Exile, you nailed it. I love it....Science my Ar$€
And then, there were those who were elderly and died with NO positive Covid test and yet the primary cause of death was recorded as Covid 19.....and I personally know three families that this happened to.
Two deaths were in elderly gents who had dementia 84 and 86 years old...the third succumbed to cancer....again no positive test....ever, aged 62.

So do not trust what you are being fed.....I am not sure if the medical professionals are being paid for their lies....but lies they most certainly are.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i also am aware of some that have died and they said covid and i know it was not, but i also know a old mate that died from it and defo was, and he had sod all underlying.

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy undoubtedly there were those who did die of Covid, but it helped no one to mis report deaths as ‘due to Covid’ just because they had a positive test 28 days before death.
There is a vast difference between dying of Covid.....and dying WITH Covid......and why were those who had NO positive test labelled as Covid deaths.

It makes me very suspicious of motives for doing this.

Also to say that we were in the midst of a pandemic, the yearly deaths as documented(from ANY cause) are not, or only minimally higher than previous years where there was no pandemic.
That is something which does not add up.
All deaths are lamentable because it means a family loses someone who they love.....but to lie about how the death was caused also causes great distress for families.
Then there are those who, if they had been able to get care and treatment.....might not have died so soon....those with heart disease and cancer.

Re: Corona Virus
 

i agree theres quite a bit dont add up but we are dealing with idiots in power,

Re: Corona Virus
 

Cashy....WE put them there so what does that say about us?

Does it say we were duped? Or that we are gullible?
throughout this I have questioned and questioned what does not add up.....and it does not add up for one reason and one reason only.....that is...Truth was never in the equation.

The fact that we are treated like errant 12 year olds also makes me question what the motive for all this is.
Guinness tells me to discount any government agenda.
So if it is not a government agenda, then it must be something far worse....and that is a global agenda....and if that is the case...then tell me WHO is pulling the strings?

Re: Corona Virus
 

Hancock has just resigned (about time) but no doubt there'll be plenty of others of the same ilk in line for his job