Corona Virus

[Margaret Pilkington]

Monkeyhanger...you are right about it being harder to conduct a discussion in writing.
You really have to think about what words you use....because there is no facial expressions you can go off when conducting an online discussion.
It is difficult sometimes to get the nuances across that a verbal discussion is sprinkled with.
I know this to be true because, although I try to express my views c,early, they have been misinterpreted at times...maybe because I did not choose my words carefully enough.
And some of are better than others at putting stuff in writing

I also like to know how people have formed the opinions that they express....alrgough, I try to respect all colours of opinions, because they have all been formed by the experiences in the life of the person posting.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Originally Posted by Guinness

?… I really cannot see a hidden government agenda. I've checked the worldometer coronovirus website regularly and I think our government has, over the past 12 months, been more honest than most

Well, after the last year I don’t trust this Government as far as they could be thrown, whatever their ‘agenda’ is.
But, at the predictable risk of being branded a conspiracy theorist, these are just a few questions the answers to which remain ‘hidden’ to me.

Why has a Govt of a country with 54 million adults ordered 457 million Covid vaccine jabs?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...red-by-the-uk/
Of course, it’s to make up for the cut to foreign aid?

Why, in March, having previously said he wouldn’t do it, did Rushi Sunak extend the Furlough Scheme to September when, at that time, June 21 was being peddled by Johnson as the ‘end’ date of all restrictions?
https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/extens...eptember-2021/
Clearly, Rushi just thought everyone should have the summer off work?

Why, also in March, did the Govt ‘call for evidence’ on the possibility of vaccine passports when it had already signed a £21m contract with HH Global for….vaccine passports.
https://inews.co.uk/news/government-...ntract-1023897
Gove forgot to tell his boss that it was a done deal?

Why are Councils advertising currently for Covid Marshalls with contracts to March 2022?
https://order-order.com/2021/06/15/l...l-spring-2022/
If they don’t, there’d be a lot of peaked hats and hi-viz jackets to send to land-fill?

Btw, the Workdometer itself clearly states that “For the COVID-19 data, we collect data from official reports, directly from Government's communication channels”.
https://www.worldometers.info/about/

As someone smarter than me once said, “ “Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”

[Margaret Pilkington]

The label 'conspiracy theorist' is used, like most labels...to shut down any constructive debate...and is used frequently because people have no other answers.

I feel like we are in a morass of treacle....and for what?
For a set of statistics that have been misrepresented and manipulated and this is evident in one of the MSM newspapers today.
It shows how the government have cherry picked data and taken it out of context to make the situation look bleak...because that gives them the continued control.
Less than 1% of hospital beds are occupied by patients who are supposed to be suffering with the virus.......although it looks like the infection rate is rising, hospital admissions belie this and the death rates are 'flat'...but we are not allowed to ditch the restrictions as promised...and come the 19 of July what is betting there is some other variant.... the Bolton Variant, the Walsall variant...and we will be told without any scientific evidence that this variant is far more deadly(though we can see world leaders in cornwall neither social distancing nor wearing masks but they do not get infected) and is 100% more infectious(how do they determine these figures...my guess is they just make it up because they know they won't be asked for proof).

Anyway Exile, you are to be congratulated on your last post...it asks some really interesting questions....and at least this conspiracy theorist knows she is not on her own in questioning what MSM try to get her to swallow.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Exile on Spencer St

As someone smarter than me once said, “ “Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”

Or...'It is easier to fool people than it is to get them to see they are being fooled'
I don't know who said it but hot damn...they were right.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Exile on Spencer St

Well, after the last year I don’t trust this Government as far as they could be thrown, whatever their ‘agenda’ is.
But, at the predictable risk of being branded a conspiracy theorist, these are just a few questions the answers to which remain ‘hidden’ to me.

Why has a Govt of a country with 54 million adults ordered 457 million Covid vaccine jabs?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...red-by-the-uk/
Of course, it’s to make up for the cut to foreign aid?

Why, in March, having previously said he wouldn’t do it, did Rushi Sunak extend the Furlough Scheme to September when, at that time, June 21 was being peddled by Johnson as the ‘end’ date of all restrictions?
https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/extens...eptember-2021/
Clearly, Rushi just thought everyone should have the summer off work?

Why, also in March, did the Govt ‘call for evidence’ on the possibility of vaccine passports when it had already signed a £21m contract with HH Global for….vaccine passports.
https://inews.co.uk/news/government-...ntract-1023897
Gove forgot to tell his boss that it was a done deal?

Why are Councils advertising currently for Covid Marshalls with contracts to March 2022?
https://order-order.com/2021/06/15/l...l-spring-2022/
If they don’t, there’d be a lot of peaked hats and hi-viz jackets to send to land-fill?

Btw, the Workdometer itself clearly states that “For the COVID-19 data, we collect data from official reports, directly from Government's communication channels”.
https://www.worldometers.info/about/

As someone smarter than me once said, “ “Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”

Erm..I don’t have ‘blind belief’ in anything, least of all a conservative government. I think I stated many years ago on this site that Boris was a buffoon, but god alone knows what would have happened to us with Corbyn and Abbot at the helm.

Lets give an alternative view to each of your points, assuming that they are true facts.

A. 450 million jabs for 54 million….this government ordered vaccines from almost every pharmaceutical company that was developing a vaccine ensuring that the UK was statistically likely to back a winner….surely better too many than not enough, isn’t it?

B. Extending furlough….lets suppose you have a small company that’s part of a supply chain, you need materials to refine before you can sell them on… you work with minimal cash flow..there’s a shortage of these materials because the company that provides them is not yet back up to full production or is in a country that is still in lockdown etc. Do you force me to make my staff redundant, putting workers on the dole and then cause me additional costs to go through recruiting and reskilling a few weeks later, possibly causing me to go out of business because of cash flow or do you extend furlough for a while enabling me to have access to experienced staff when things start flowing again?

C. Vaccine passports..again, as in ordering too many vaccines it’s a case of hedging bets, if other countries decided (especially the vindictive EU) decided to go down this route we would be prepared and although £21million is life changing for me and you, it ain’t in national terms, spending this money to find out if other countries of the world are looking at protecting themselves using passports seems logical to me, doesn’t it to you?

D. Covid Marshalls…considering that this virus will be with us for a very long time, and there will be testing and quite possibly booster vaccinations necessary from early winter onwards why would you not give people 12 month contracts?

E. Not arguing about worldometer…this website has been going for years giving information on a variety of things…..in fact you actually evidence what I said which was …’our government has been more honest than most.’ Personally I believe they have erred on the side of caution by using anyone who died within 28 days of receiving a positive in their calculations (which is clearly an overestimation)…Do you honestly believe the figures from China, Russia or even Germany?

And yes I agree that people with alternative views are being stifled and cancelled by both social and mainstream media and that’s just plain wrong.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Guinness, I too am not making any political point. A pox on all their houses!

(A) that’s one hell of an expensive bet, seven times what you’d need, if all the ‘vaccines’ work as we’re constantly told! Like putting a pound to win on every horse in a race. But what the hell, it’s only tax payers’ money.
(B) Fair point, but it assumes firms at the start of a supply chain will return to full production BEFORE furlough ends, in order for other firms to be able to pick up later on. If I was producing, say, beer, why would I risk gearing up my production for pubs, hotels and clubs that may or may not be allowed to start up fully again?
(C) so, those who, using the right enshrined in international law and through the principle of informed consent, choose not to take an experimental vaccine will be excluded from society? Don’t recall AIDS passports when that ‘pandemic’ was all the world talked about.
(D) And will it be with us for a very long time because the vaccines aren’t, as Margaret has pointed out, not really vaccines? We’ve had flu viruses for millennia but never before thought to employ non-medics to control the public. Or will these ‘Marshalls’ end up picking up all the discarded masks that seem to litter streets today (funny how the council’s don’t feel the need to provide bio-secure waste disposal bins for such potentially lethal items).

I would like to think that any rational person agrees that it’s wrong to cancel open debate and to shout/shut down contrary views, but why does it still happen and why did Ofcom issue an edict to all media outlets last year ‘advising’ them NOT to deviate from the Govt’s narrative?

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes Guinness, you are right.
The PCR test might show someone who has particles of viral protein....it does NOT diagnose Covid 19.
This does not mean they have the virus.....they may be remnants of a past infection....but it is not necessarily an active infection...of any kind.

Yes, people who are incubating illness can be infective before they exhibit symptoms....but if someone told you that you were positive for the mumps virus....or an influenza virus it would be vastly different to being told that you tested positive for Covid 19.
But, then there is only one way to determine whether you have Covid 19...or indeed have had this infection.....and that is antibody specific screening.

As for clinicians not being in the position to question the validity of the results of the tests....how many of those who have tested positive have actually been seen by a clinician?
The answer to that would be those who exhibited symptoms severe enough to get them into a hospital bed.....and not the thousands who are tested and get a positive result....are not ill....and seen by nobody with medical qualifications.

So yes...in that respect you are right...clinicians have not been able to challenge the test results.....We are going to be living with this for a long time to come.

We have been misled from the outset.....even the figures of death from(not with) this infection have been manipulated to keep the population compliant.....and to scare people into getting a vaccine which is not a vaccine at all......a vaccine prevents you from getting the disease and stops you from passing it on....this vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting it, it may stop you from dying from it....and it does not stop you from transmitting it.

As for there being no government agenda....well, if that is what you believe.
What makes you think that the sources you keep checking are telling you the truth?
A lot of information that we could view at the beginning of this situation is now suppressed....and if you do not conform to the global party line...or even question the global party line, then you are labelled ‘conspiracy theorist’.
They do not want any divergence from what we are expected to believe.

It will all come out in the wash...at some point. I might not be here to see it, but that matters not.

I do not expect anyone to agree with me....I do not really care if they do not.
This has been an exercise in population control and coercion.

I’m not arguing with your science… Labouring my original point, even though the current PCR or LF tests do not evidence the presence of Covid, it evidences ‘virus’…past or present it does not matter. The simple fact is that currently it’s the only quick way we have of quick mass testing and therefore the only way we can protect the vulnerable by asking people ‘suspected’ of having the virus to isolate.

And quite frankly it’s the young who have been carrying this burden, they have given up their everyday lives for 15 months to protect coffin dodgers like me from being hospitalized and dying with a maximum of two people wearing PPE at my bedside.

I’m sure that if we could take every single individual on this planet, isolate and test them with whatever scientific test there is that proves that they are infected with Covid we could eradicate the virus..at the moment this is science fiction and we only have PCR and LFT and we have to cope.

I really struggle understanding people who think this virus is an attempt by the UK government to soften us up for 1984 style restrictions, especially as this is a pandemic...i.e. affecting the whole world

[Margaret Pilkington]

Of course it matters....when a government remove freedoms based on something that is inaccurate in diagnosing something we are led to believe is going to cull ridiculous numbers of the population.....remember those predictions of 4000 deaths every day.

The deaths that occurred were mainly in the elderly, the infirm and those with other serious health issues.
The average age of deaths in these people was 82 years....this country has and average life expectancy of 82 years.

We have gone far beyond the protection of the vulnerable.
Far beyond protecting the NHS....and still we are not released from house arrest.
Since when has it been sensible to quarantine the well?

If we look back to the beginning of this situation......those who were suspected of having this infection were put into District General hospitals for their care.....many patients went into hospital for other things and contracted The virus....not from their carers, but from other patients being treated in wards that shared the same air conditioning/ heating ducts.

Elderly patients were released back to care homes without the homes being notified that they were infectious.
PPE was woefully short for these care homes too....and I know that you know this because you too are in the caring orofesdion(if my memory serves me right).
So lots of governmental mistakes were made....and it was put down to an ‘unprecedented situation’....so we are supposed to let that go are we?
What galls me is that statistics were produced all the way through the early days, with very little in the way of frames of reference....we were given manipulated data....data that was calculated to scare people.
Deaths within 28 days of a positive test(that test that is not suitable as a diagnostic tool) were recorded as deaths from the virus. This was regardless of the actual cause!
I personally know of at least three people who tested negative, but had Covid recorded as the cause of death....why would the public be misled in this manner if there was not some sort of agenda.
From October the ONS stats no longer recorded pneumonia or flu deaths....they were rolled into the Covid figures.....so Covid recording meant that for the flu season there were zero deaths....never before recorded.

As for the burden being on the young...I do not agree that they have borne the brunt of this virus...but there is no doubt in my mind that they will in the future.
Everyone has borne some privation as a result of this virus and the government handling of it....those who have heart disease, those who have cancer and have missed not just follow ups, but vital treatment.....those who had to say solitary goodbyes to the people they lost...not necessarily from the virus.
The education lost, the business lost, the self esteem lost, the mental heath compromised.
All for a virus that has a recovery on 99.3%.
Any death is lamentable....but there will be many more deaths....Not from Covid, but from the consequences of how we dealt with it.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Guinness you say you struggle with trying to understand those who think there is some sort of agenda.
What I struggle with is a government that treats the population like five year olds.
That lies to them.
That wants to keep them in cowed compliance....and that suppresses any opinions that do not follow the global party line. That wants to continue to exert control over their everyday lives.
We know that we are going to have to learn to live with this virus....so why don’t they let us get on with it?
I would therefore encourage you to look up the World Economic Forum and look at those who were involved in some of the machinations that have gone on in the last couple of years.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Below is a startling graph from the US equivalent of our Yellow Card reporting system for adverse reactions.

This is the article, but it’s extremely long and repetitive in places, but might be of interest for anyone with children or contemplating having them.
https://trialsitenews.com/should-you-get-vaccinated/

And this is a more optimistic article, that suggests, at least in the US, the medical tide on Ivermectin may be slowly turning.

https://trialsitenews.com/unitaid-pa...ritish-expert/

[dotti34]

In case anyone is interested I thought I’d tell you the latest from over here regarding vaccines. A while ago it was deemed that people under 50 would have the Pfizer vaccine but people over that age could only have the AstraZeneca. That was it - no choice in the matter.. This was because the health authority decided that there was more chance of blood clots caused by the AstraZeneca in the under 50’s. In the past week there have been another 12 cases of blood clots linked to this vaccine, bringing the total to 60, and as 7 of these latest cases occurred in people in the 50 – 59 age group now the latest information is that people under 60 should not have the AstraZeneca vaccine, but only the Pfizer one.

Gives us oldies a lot of confidence – not! It makes it seem that it is all guesswork, what is given as being the correct information one week has changed by the following week.

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by dotti34

In case anyone is interested I thought I’d tell you the latest from over here regarding vaccines. A while ago it was deemed that people under 50 would have the Pfizer vaccine but people over that age could only have the AstraZeneca. That was it - no choice in the matter.. This was because the health authority decided that there was more chance of blood clots caused by the AstraZeneca in the under 50’s. In the past week there have been another 12 cases of blood clots linked to this vaccine, bringing the total to 60, and as 7 of these latest cases occurred in people in the 50 – 59 age group now the latest information is that people under 60 should not have the AstraZeneca vaccine, but only the Pfizer one.

Gives us oldies a lot of confidence – not! It makes it seem that it is all guesswork, what is given as being the correct information one week has changed by the following week.

on the question of blood clots i wonder if certain individuals are more likely to have them than others and there is some sort of test or previous medical records that show you are vunerable to them.

[cashman]

thats a good question i think, my moneys on yes. but i have no medical; background unless smoking a few joints in the 60s counts.

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Of course it matters....when a government remove freedoms based on something that is inaccurate in diagnosing something we are led to believe is going to cull ridiculous numbers of the population.....remember those predictions of 4000 deaths every day.

The deaths that occurred were mainly in the elderly, the infirm and those with other serious health issues.
The average age of deaths in these people was 82 years....this country has and average life expectancy of 82 years.

We have gone far beyond the protection of the vulnerable.
Far beyond protecting the NHS....and still we are not released from house arrest.

Everyone has borne some privation as a result of this virus and the government handling of it....those who have heart disease, those who have cancer and have missed not just follow ups, but vital treatment.....those who had to say solitary goodbyes to the people they lost...not necessarily from the virus.
The education lost, the business lost, the self esteem lost, the mental heath compromised.
All for a virus that has a recovery on 99.3%.
Any death is lamentable....but there will be many more deaths....Not from Covid, but from the consequences of how we dealt with it.

shock and horror, people in their 80,s and above die. when they do i get the impression that there deaths are somehow more tragic than if they had died of heart disease or some form of cancer. said it over a year ago now that we,ll end up having a one disease health service where getting the virus seems to trump the rest. even the bbc give details of the millions waiting for treatment for the other ailments that are still available that have a bigger chance for all ages to die of.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I was recommended to have yearly mammograms when something strange was picked up on my last one....I did not get one in 2019.....or in 2020.....and although I have received two appointments for this year, both of them have been deferred.
So you can imagine tha anxiety this causes....especially as after my last one I needed a vacuum assisted biopsy(done under local, and not two hours of fun).

My daughter has not had a follow up after her major surgery at the end of 2019.....she has had telephone appointments, but this does not allow for the stoma to be inspected, the abdomen to be palpated or the wound area inspected.

We are going to be seeing inoperable cancers and other life shortening conditions when the service do eventually return...that is if they ever do?