The Tories

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Does anyone know how long an MP have to serve before they get an MP's pension, and what sort of pension do they get?

An MPs pension is set by the amount of time they serve Barrie, I know this from when Ken Hargreaves was our MP

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

they did try cleansing in westminster but got caught this is not new labour ,its one nation labour get with the times

One Nation Labour since when did Brown and Blair think of anybody but themselves

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

One Nation Labour since when did Brown and Blair think of anybody but themselves

Probably the same amount of time as any leading Tory spent thinking of anyone but themselves.
Just lift your blinkers for a moment Jay and realise that you and C'mon are the opposite sides of the same coin.
Neither of you would ever consider the others party as having done anything good for you.
Whereas the rest of us consider that to be the case with members of most parties.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Eric

If this were the conspiracy theory thread, one might be tempted to argue that the pollicy of Thatcher's tories was to destroy the working class in order to wipe out Labour's support base Similar to the strategy of von Falkenhayn at Verdun: render untenable the position of the British Army by bleeding the French army white.

You could also argue that the last governments policy of uncontrolled immigration was for the same purpose....to increase the Labour party's voting base.
Getting people welfare dependent was also another one of these cynical ploys too....you are far more likely to vote for someone that you think will allow you to continue to draw money from the social fund than someone who will rein in social security spending.
Both of which, have been unmitigated disasters for this country.
It makes no sense at all to have more people funded by the taxpayer, being unproductive and contributing nothing.

Some of the people claiming benefits, have paid nothing at all into the system which they expect to support them...that isn't socialism.....it is insanity.

I support none of the political parties, they are all worthless...treat the electorate like they haven't two brain cells to spark off...and tell us one thing(whatever they think we want to hear - but how would they know as they never listen to the public) they govern by sound bites and spin, have no backbone...as you can see the current political system leaves me very jaundiced and more than a bit cynical.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Probably the same amount of time as any leading Tory spent thinking of anyone but themselves.
Just lift your blinkers for a moment Jay and realise that you and C'mon are the opposite sides of the same coin.
Neither of you would ever consider the others party as having done anything good for you.
Whereas the rest of us consider that to be the case with members of most parties.

To be honest Less I have very little time for Cameron and Clegg, my argument with Cmon is me never once had anything to say against Labour in Power, I have critisised this government a number of times especially on Europe, and also remember I didn't vote Tory at the last election and can't see me doing at the next, although I might not get a say in that, but if I'm still here, they're going to have to change a hell of a lot

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

If this were the conspiracy theory thread, one might be tempted to argue that the policy of Thatcher'stories was to destroy the working class in order to wipe out Labour's support base Similar to the strategy of von Falkenhayn at Verdun: render untenable the position of the British Army by bleeding the French army white.

What utter rubbish and you know it, destroy the working class where pray would they go, there's no future of putting them on the dole which is what has and always will make a total nonsense of that statement. What Thatcher did was to put the Communist Trade Unions in their place, that fine body of men led by the likes of Bob Crow, they had him on "Have I got News for You" it was a toss up who was the worst ever panellist him or a tub of lard who once stood in for Roy Hattersley. All union leaders are more interested in their big bucks salaries and and the nice line in exes, only the other week big hearted Arthur took the MUM to court because they stopped one of his perk he was still receiving even though he retired years ago

[Eric]

Originally Posted by jaysay

What utter rubbish and you know it, destroy the working class where pray would they go, there's no future of putting them on the dole which is what has and always will make a total nonsense of that statement. What Thatcher did was to put the Communist Trade Unions in their place, that fine body of men led by the likes of Bob Crow, they had him on "Have I got News for You" it was a toss up who was the worst ever panellist him or a tub of lard who once stood in for Roy Hattersley. All union leaders are more interested in their big bucks salaries and and the nice line in exes, only the other week big hearted Arthur took the MUM to court because they stopped one of his perk he was still receiving even though he retired years ago

Borrowed C'mon's blinders, and spray painted them blue, did we?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

Borrowed C'mon's blinders, and spray painted them blue, did we?

Why the truth hurts does it Eric

[cmonstanley]

were all just peasants, i meant servants to these people

[Eric]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Why the truth hurts does it Eric

I've no idea ... never bumped into it in this sublunary world. But I do know that toryism, even your warm and fuzzy seeming version, never has been the party of the ordinary joe, isn't now, and never will be. The simplisitc tory economic "policy" of making drastic cuts in social programmes, while, at the same time, making it easier for the rich to make and "conceal" their wealth, will never work, unless it goes hand-in-hand with spending in strategic areas, especiallly ones which create jobs. Tory supporters, and those who benefit from tory policies (ie. the wealthy) can never be relied on to create jobs ... unless they are offshore in countries which have an even more nonchalant attitude to the welfare of the workers than does the so-called "coalition".

[Margaret Pilkington]

Have you seen that advert on TV? The one for fat free Greek Yoghurt....where they say it is a myth?
Every time I see it, I think of the political situation in this country. They(the ones who rule) let us believe that we can change things via the ballot box....when clearly, this is a myth since many of our rules, regulations and laws are being dreamt up by unelected(therefore unaccountable)bureaucrats in Brussels.....very soon if we continue going down this road, there will be no need for any MP's because we will just be the annexe of the EU........a puppet whose strings are jerked by those who hate us and would like to see Britain on it's knees. Something that couldn't be done with bombs is being done in a bloodless, but more humiliating way....they let us live, but only just.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Have you seen that advert on TV? The one for fat free Greek Yogurt....where they say it is a myth?
Every time I see it, I think of the political situation in this country. They(the ones who rule) let us believe that we can change things via the ballot box....when clearly, this is a myth since many of our rules, regulations and laws are being dreamt up by unelected(therefore unaccountable)bureaucrats in Brussels.....very soon if we continue going down this road, there will be no need for any MP's because we will just be the annexe of the EU........a puppet whose strings are jerked by those who hate us and would like to see Britain on it's knees. Something that couldn't be done with bombs is being done in a bloodless, but more humiliating way....they let us live, but only just.

Changing things by the ballot box is the only realistic way we have of changing things Margaret, the alternative was tried behind the iron curtain, the rule of the gun and threats, children informing on their parents etc. and this supposedly was within an equal society, you know the socialist motto every body is equal, like Orwell said "All Animals are Equal" yet some animals are more equal than others
Its time somebody stood up for Britain against Europe, but only this week Mr ED has been ridiculing Cameron for attempting to regain some of our powers from Brussels and contemplating a referendum, and Clegg ain't much use either, the time has come for somebody to tell Europe enough is enough, but with self serving people like Miliband and Clegg trying to put a spanner in the works, its hard work

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

I've no idea ... never bumped into it in this sublunary world. But I do know that toryism, even your warm and fuzzy seeming version, never has been the party of the ordinary joe, .

Your argument doesn't stand up Eric, in the 1992 election just two years after the poll tax fiasco, John Majors government were returned with a 21 seat majority on a 77.72% turn out, polling 14092891 the most votes ever cast for one party in this country at one election, seems a lot of ordinary Joe's were quite happy to vote Tory As I have often said the rich and well heeled don't elect Tory government the rank and file of the British populous do that on a regular basis

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, but if those you elect via the democratic process then go on to do just what they want, following their own agenda, rather than that they were elected on, then the ballot box has failed...and this why there is so much apathy over voting...because voting changes little...so then people think, 'why am I doing this..it is a fruitless exercise' and they don't vote.

Even if voting were made compulsory...it would not change things....and much of this is because the parties have become so similar that it is hard to put a sheet of Bronco between them.....when I say the parties are similar, I don't mean their ideologies are similar(even though over the years the demarcation has become blurred), but that politics has becoem a career for greedy, self serving, men and women...who care little for the will of their constituents/electorate.
Or certainly, that is how it is seen.

They preach at us but make very few real decisive decisions....and the government we have now, does not have a majority...and neither did the last government........this is because some people didn't vote, or spoiled their paper or cast a vote for a party that had no chance of ever being elected as a protest against the main three parties.
The majority of the people in this country did not vote for the shower that we have running the country at the moment.

So the ballot box doesn't work....alas, I have no solutions that would solve the problem......other than a few barrels of gunpowder and a man with a mission(GF).

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes, but if those you elect via the democratic process then go on to do just what they want, following their own agenda, rather than that they were elected on, then the ballot box has failed...and this why there is so much apathy over voting...because voting changes little...so then people think, 'why am I doing this..it is a fruitless exercise' and they don't vote.

Even if voting were made compulsory...it would not change things....and much of this is because the parties have become so similar that it is hard to put a sheet of Bronco between them.....when I say the parties are similar, I don't mean their ideologies are similar(even though over the years the demarcation has become blurred), but that politics has become a career for greedy, self serving, men and women...who care little for the will of their constituents/electorate.
Or certainly, that is how it is seen.

They preach at us but make very few real decisive decisions....and the government we have now, does not have a majority...and neither did the last government........this is because some people didn't vote, or spoiled their paper or cast a vote for a party that had no chance of ever being elected as a protest against the main three parties.
The majority of the people in this country did not vote for the shower that we have running the country at the moment.

So the ballot box doesn't work....alas, I have no solutions that would solve the problem......other than a few barrels of gunpowder and a man with a mission(GF).

it is very very rare that any one party poll 50% of the total electorate, when Major polled nearly 15 million it was 42.3% Blair in 97 was 43.2% and the turn out in 2010 was only 65.1%, but its no use employing a Mr Fawkes lookalike Margaret, the security far too tight these days