I don't actually object to people using drugs for recreational purposes, what they do in their own homes is up to them.

What I do find objectional is the way the pro-drugs folk go all evangelical as if they have found some chemical faith and want to force their views on the rest of us.

After all, the thread starter asked for peoples opinions about it, but strangely objects to the fact that the majority don't agree with him.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You really are a total prat aren't you, anything available on prescription is not an illegal drug, some of the meds I receive on script are classed as illegal substances if sold on the street to people who just want to use it for kicks. I sure as hell wish I didn't need anything at all to keep me alive, but sadly I do, which is why I get totally peed off by people like you trying to justify the use of drugs for pleasure

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I dont think this guy looks on accy web so ill post his view

Billionaire Richard Branson talks about ending the War on Drugs. - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZwsWC-jyc4

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

"you really are a pratt!" I think you should read the rules about personal insults! It seems the moderators here are turning a blind eye!

The issue is that people with Multiple Sclerosis find "illegal cannabis" the most effective pain killer and are being treat like criminals as they can't get it on the NHS so they have to buy illegal drugs OK!

Cheech & Chong Up in smoke car joke - YouTube

Sorry about your illness man!

I seem to understand from the title of this thread, it is you wishing to legalise illegal drugs.

The fact that one of those drugs can alleviate pain, is a factor towards that drug, not all illegal drugs.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

calling you a prat is not an insult its a fact

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I think you need to pay attention to some of the very offensive personal remarks and insults you have made towards others on this thread and practice what you preach!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I said I wouldn't post anymore to this thread, but I just have to correct you.

Those who suffer from MS can now be prescribed Sativex(it was trialled some ten years ago so this is not a new thing).......which is a cannabinoid legal drug made especially for this purpose....so MS sufferers do not have to resort to using illegal cannabis.

In an earlier thread you asked if the pharma company were blocking the legalisation of cannabis because it robs them(or deprives) of revenue.

If you think about this logically, the pharma companies would love to legalise the stuff, as it would be a regular and lucrative market for them.

It is illegal for a reason......that reason has been gone over and over and over in previous posts.......but you cannot be convinced because you don't want to listen to an opinion which differs from your own.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You are a double pratt and I don't give a damn if you have "back up!"

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You are wrong - I posted a legitmate link from a BBC program that contradicts what you are saying!

I aleady posted the link to this program which clearly stated a woman was denied this Sativex and then a consultant who was prescribing it was told by the NHS Trust he worked for to stop issueing prescriptions - when one woman claimed until she tried Sativex was going to commit suicide... so again you are not getting the facts right!

Also not all NHS trusts can provide it anyway, because all trusts prioritise what drugs they think are needed more - so not all NHS areas provide this drug! Which means many MS sufferers do buy illegal cannabis to meet their needs!

Your point about pharmacutrical companies wanting to legalise it I doubt it! If it was legal then that would mean people could grow their own and that would cut their profits! Drugs like asparin, paracetomol etc can't be "home grown" they have to be bought from chemists and make companies Billions - you can't grow your own paracetomol!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Good post I havn't seen this one! :)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

How very childish, you'll be taking your toys home at playtime next!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

No, if it was legalised, then I am pretty sure that the government would want to ensure that what was legalised, was up to pharma standards...so growing your own wouldn't be an option.(which is why I said in an earlier post, you would still have a black market in the stuff and a gang culture).

Whilst working in the NHS, I saw Sativex prescribed for MS sufferers.
My own sister in law suffers from MS and she is prescribed Sativex.
I am stating facts as I know them...and not to prove a particular point.

I could not view the link to the BBC program....so I am not able to comment on it.

As I said previously, we are never going to agree on this subject so let us leave it there shall we?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your a fool than keep opening it and taking away any reasonable doubt
ps prat only has one "t"

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Nasty piece of work you are! You have stated that "there is no debate on legalising illegal drugs - that no one should take drugs for recreational purposes!" But what about alcohol and tobacco which kill 1,000's of people per year!

New research shows Internet effects young brains like Cocaine!

Internet Addiction Can Change Your Brain Like A Cocaine Addiction - Business Insider

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You are childish - people like Jaysay can say what they like knowing that Garinda, Less, Cashman will back them up! That is a fact of human behaviour on this web site - that little clique can control and undermine debate!

Now there you go, without knowing you were going to have yet another dig at myself and others, I have just agreed with you in the internet creates morons thread that you just started.

;)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Yeh! and some? :rolleyes:

Watch this video clip - the real reason Cannabis is illegal...

Joe Rogan on The True Reason Pot is illegal - YouTube

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You have no debate when you reduce yourself to name calling people who don't agree with you. Your point seems to be that if people don't agree with you then they have no point of view - I think that might make you a bigot? I would like to know, other than your personal opinions and your 'internet based research' what evidence you have that legalising currently illegal drugs would have ant benefit for our society?
I have a great deal of knowledge - both personal and professional - and I have studied the issue in some depth as well as having worked with young substance users for some years. My opinion based on my background knowledge and experience is that the legalisation of currently illegal drugs would be a mistake. I would appreciate a response from you which does not include personal insults and is based on facts which are not internet based.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Good video

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Will you please stop the sodding you tube/internet research!!!!!!!!!

He is beyond redemption, he won't stop until an overdose sets in, we've had them before, we'll get them again.
Eventually he'll wear himself out or come on so stoned he won't know what he was banned for.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Can I ask why ?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

How about ' Because his posts and this thread became boring about 800 posts ago'?

I believe it takes two doctors to confirm insanity in a patient. Kestrelx can do it with two posts!

Must admit, after the first few Utube examples he put on, I don't open them anymore, so let him post away, it's keeping the silly sod entertained.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Because internet research has it's place, but you can find anything on there to meet your argument. To have any credibility the research needs to be much broader, otherwise it's flawed. It should add to your evidence and not be the only source.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

This thread is about and I quote Legalise "Illegal Drugs" yet even though it was you who started the thread, you are the one who is prepared to wander down other avenues, if you want to discuss drinking and Smoking start another thread, mind you they say the mind tends to wonder through constant substance abuse, which is quite obvious in your case

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

i like the way people stick so strictly to the thread name when given a question they don't want to answer.

Just answer the question if its not ok for people to take drugs for kicks why is it ok with alcohol and cigarettes.

As the video I posted shows helping drug users and not criminalising them works.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

No ones asking that you in person read it or comment! :confused::rolleyes:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Proof that banning drugs causes more harm?

Mephedrone is now used by more people than before being banned.

The price has also gone up from £10:00 a gram to £25:00 a gram!

Also researchers say the quality has gone down as the price has gone up. Which means users may be getting substances that are more harmful!

Mephedrone more popular since being banned ? survey | Society | The Observer

Moves to criminalise the new wave of synthetic drugs, known as legal highs, appear to have backfired after it emerged that mephedrone is now more popular among clubbers than when it was not banned.
Confirmation comes in a survey of London club-goers carried out by researchers at Lancaster University and Guy's and St Thomas' NHS foundation trust. Published on Monday in the Journal of Substance Use, it assesses the impact of the classification of mephedrone as a class B drug.
The survey builds on earlier work, conducted one evening in July 2010, three months after the drug was made illegal, which found the popularity of mephedrone had surpassed that of all other drugs, with 27% of people questioned in two gay-friendly south London dance clubs reporting that they had or were going to take it that night.
The results of the follow-up study, conducted at the same two clubs in July 2011, found mephedrone had become even more popular. On the night the study was conducted, 41% of club-goers said they had taken or intended to take mephedrone that night.
Gay club-goers are seen as "early adopters" of psychoactive drugs so the researchers claim the findings are likely to have implications for the wider population in the future. "Our first study indicated club-goers appeared undeterred by the legal classification of this emergent psychoactive substance, but it was taken very soon after the ban so we felt it was important to test the results by repeating the study 12 months later," said Dr Fiona Measham, senior lecturer in criminology at Lancaster University.
"Since we carried out our first study the purity of mephedrone has fallen, the price has risen, yet the results of our second study showed both use and popularity had increased in the year since the ban.
"The results of our two studies showed that not only were club-goers undeterred by the change in law, but the drug had in fact increased in popularity among our sample."
The trade in the illicit drug, also known as m-cat or meow, is lucrative, with one dealer in the north-west reputedly running a £500,000-a-week operation. The drug is manufactured in China and posted to the UK in kilo packages, according to drugs experts, who fear customs cannot keep up with the trade.
Anecdotal evidence suggests a sub-section of heroin users are now choosing to inject mephedrone, which is usually taken in powder form and snorted like cocaine.
The popularity of mephedrone, which produces a mild sense of euphoria but has been blamed for paranoia, heart palpitations, insomnia and memory problems, has led to price increases. A gram of the synthetic drug costs around £25 now compared with around £20 a year ago. Prior to the ban it cost £10 a gram. Its increased popularity is thought to be partly the result of the falling quality of cocaine, which costs around £40 a gram but is mixed with other agents so is only about 25% pure.
"These findings question the consequences, if not the intentions, of a drug policy that focuses primarily on banning a drug and presuming that legislation will result in a reduction in supply and demand," Measham said.
The survey found the dance drug GHB – also known as GBL – was the second most popular drug among clubbers, with 24% of those questioned saying they intended to take it that night. Of 309 people questioned, 17% said they would be taking cocaine, while 16% said they would use cannabis.
"Our survey results show there is a need to ensure a more targeted approach to reducing the use of novel psychoactive substances such as mephedrone and that this should not just simply focus on controlling the substances," said Dr David Wood, a consultant clinical toxicologist at Guy's and St Thomas'..

The survey comes as the government seeks advice from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs on whether to issue a temporary ban on methoxetamine, a new substance being sold as "safe ketamine".
"You can't hold back the floodgates in terms of these white powders," Measham said. "We need to find alternative ways of dealing with this issue."
Two drugs awareness groups, the Amy Winehouse Foundation and the Angelus Foundation, are now calling for drug and alcohol education to be made compulsory as part of the national curriculum.
The two groups have launched a petition that could trigger a debate in parliament on the issue. The petition can be found at: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/30280

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Does this not work both ways?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Would you all agree though that the current laws don't seem to be working.

I never seem to get a reply when I mention Decriminalisation of cannabis, which is my thoughts as I do not agree with legalisation.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

:idunno: Tough:bleedht:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I admit that a few times in the past few weeks I have taken paracetemol to relieve headaches cause by stress and noise. That is not like me, who avoids pharmacuticals like the plague!

I have had brief encounters with natural 'grass' cannabis in the distant past and know how calm and relaxed it made me.

If it had been legal I would use it now to help me cope with this 'rough patch'.
It is less damaging than painkillers and anti depressants.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Um welcome to accy web, rather an inane post about a person you obviously don't now, and seem to care even less

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

you should read his other posts, he appears to talk out of an orifice not designed for conversation

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

see what I mean

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

This could be Kev the Rev making a comeback :D

I have him down as a god botherer

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Do you also recommend the hair shirt?:dflam:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

.....or flagellation:eek:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

This isn't me in disguise:eek:
Zen and christianity are at opposite ends of the scale.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I approve of Zen - you asked for donations - very catholic that!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Zazen is meditation.
I don't meditate, but I have experienced satori* during a lucid dream.
*(Buddha-Nature or emptiness)

This is off topic anyway

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Your off topic - if you want to discuss faith/religion etc then start a relevant thread elsewhere! Cheers :rolleyes:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Well said

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Am sitting on the fence on this one.

I have no experience of the brand of drugs that have been discussed.

Heroin, Cocain etc., sound horrendous to me, but Cannabis, well, all I know is that it helped to save the life of someone I know, due to the fact that it is an appetite stimulant.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Not like you Kate, How many times have yeh played hell wi me fer calling yeh a fence sitter?:confused::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:: rofl38:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

And what a spider calls lunch:rolleyes:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

That proves your a sensible person, that thinks more about their body, than using illegal substances, join our club Kate:)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Kestrelx's mate Prof Nutt Case was on Breakfast TV this morning seems caffeine is also very harmful now;)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Come on Garinda, sure her friend who cannabis has helped is a total waste of time, a looser and ready to apear on Jerremy Kyle, whilst rolling one?:rolleyes:

What cloud are you on? read what she put, and prey tell what club is this.

Here is part of it again.

but Cannabis, well, all I know is that it helped to save the life of someone I know, due to the fact that it is an appetite stimulant

:jimbo:

What on Earth are you trying to prove with the above post?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I can assure you this person is not a loser (or looser .. LOL), and not ready (or ever will be) to appear on the Jerermy Kyle show. :p


This may give you a clue :

Cannabis may help anorexia | News.com.au

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Previously anyone who may mention cannabis isnt all bad have been mocked by Garinda, read the thred if you want proof. I was just expecting the same reply to her.

Also Jaysay seem to be contradicing his usuall stance now Katex has mentioned her friend and the use of cannabis she is now "in his club"

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I have no thoughts this person would be a loser (or looser):D or ready to apear on JK.

Can I ask when you say cannabis are we talking about Illegal Street Cannabis (As I presumed) or the perscription spray stuff.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Oh, I see, you were mimicing what you thought Garinda would say. Thought you had just got my name wrong.. :D

Presume it was illegal, but if you ask me about the different grades, names, etc., haven't got a clue. Never even seen any, and wouldn't recognise the smell if it was blown straight up me nostrils.

Isn't it OK to have some for personal use now ?

To explain my sitting on the fence, I am not with regard to the other drugs and only based on reports and horrific deaths the media put forward. I cannot say I would vote for them to be legalised. The only plus is that it would reduce crime....or would it ? Might retail at similar prices ? Would still be expensive, I would think.

As for cannabis, I am sitting on the fence on this. I'm sure lots of drug users have started off smoking this, before moving on to the others, but also think many haven't; just like my drug habit of cigarettes has not enticed me to move on to cannabis.

If you speak to youngish adults these days, most admit they have had a period of smoking it in their teenage/early 20's and never smoked it since. Whereas, they're all still drinking alchohol.. ;)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Not on a cloud, thats for Yourself and kestrelx

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I agree with you here Mr D! I think Garinda's OD'd on this thread now! :p:D

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

But the first drug most people start with is alcohol! Then some may start smoking tobacco, then some may start on a bit of cannabis! Then some may try some heroin! But alcohol or tobacco may be their first drug. Recalling my first drink of alcohol - it wasn't nice and is now an aquired taste but back then you do it because it's socially expected/ and because of peer-group pressure! Likewise my first cigarettes were gut wrenching, again you get used to it!

That's a good point katex, that a lot of people do smoke cannabis in late teens early 20's then stop. But carry on drinking alcohol! :D

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I've been searching for a mention of this but have been unable to find anything that mentions Prof Nutt and caffeine! There was some mention on the news today though that too much red meat can lead to bowel cancer but that's another subject altogether! ;)

Howard Marks Interviews David Nutt On The Dangers of Drugs & Drug Policy Reform (November, 2010) - YouTube

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I think the current laws are perfectly adequate. The problem is that we don't have enough police officers and the punishment for people caught with illegal drugs are far to lenient


He is a reply for you - it is a stupid idea.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

It was a follow on from the meat issue

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

When I first smoked fags I had to force myself to like it - the attitude of people around me was "be a man take your tobacco!" That was the attitude of working people back in the 20th Century! Same with alcohol - first time I drank beer I cringed! So basically these 2 drugs are acquired tastes brought on by social conditioning! However in these times we are finding the government is more concerned with changing those attitudes that drinking and smoking are cool and essential parts of being adults!

However not forgetting that New Labour gave us 24 hour drinking and sowed the seeds for the Binge drinking culture!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Cigarettes and alcohol are bad for you if you exagerate but they are not illegal.

Can't imagine why anyone would carry on doing something they didn't enjoy first time around, just to be a part of the crowd, myself -but it takes all sorts, some are born weaker.

This morning my neighbours son, aged 22 called to say Goodbye, he is friends with both my boys. They hugged, wished him well and all had tears in their eyes -it has put a shadow over my day. He has had to go into a rehab community because of Heroin addiction. he is a lovely lad, artistic and wouldn't hurt a fly but he ended up being drawn into the worst kind of spiral. He is lucky to have the support of his family, friends and neighbours -lots don't have that. When you are talking of real peoples lives and the effect certain things have on all those around them, I wish those of you who speak in defence of these Illegal substances would be be less flippant, stop making out that in some way it's cool do have dabbled and come out unscathed and would basically put a sock in it!:)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

No you can still be done for possession, most police see it as a waste of time for small amounts and will either make you destroy it there and then, or take it and issue a street caution.

You can be arrested for it and charged in court though.

So what punishment would you dish out for people caught with personal amounts of illegal drugs.

As I have mentioned Cannabis lets use this as an example.

Why is it a stupid idea? This would free up police time to spend tackling other crimes.

If your calling someone please put a name to it.:rolleyes:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Thats backwards, when closing time was 11 o'clock people used to rush the last few drinks down. Now you can drink all day and all night so there is no rush.

Drinking to much is just a stupid British thing.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You say exagerate - the harm done by tobacco and alcohol is not exagerated Mobertol

I don't know what age you had your first alcohol - but spirits and beer are not nice to taste to a young person! We learn to like them to fit in with our peers - I now enjoy the taste of lager when I drink it - not often though.


I wonder how this neighbours son takes his heroin? Needles, snorted or smoked - why did this lad become an addict and if he's using needles? What is the thinking behind that - I never understood why people get into using needles.

LSD is not the same as Heroin and people take these drugs for different reasons - so I wish people wouldn't lump all drugs into one category!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

How about a mandatory 6 month prison sentence for possessing illegal drugs?
This is what the government intend to do with adults carrying knifes even if they have not committed a crime with them.
That's finding you guilty of a crime before you commit one.
Possessing illegal drugs is a crime so I think 6 months would be ok for a first offender.

What do you think the punishment should be?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Our prisons are full to the brim and its easy to get drugs inside. To any class A drug user its like going to butlins.

Pre-crime, im dead against it, guilty when found guilty, I carry a knife every time I go out with my dogs in the form of a multi tool.

I think more effort in to rehabilitation would be a better step forward, for a first offence, of course it all depends on Type and quantity. I think the whole classification of drugs needs to be reviewed.

Drunk and Disorderly is a crime, 6 months prison for them as well?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I agree if you help people addicted to drugs instead of jail them you free up so much prison space and the people that have the likes of cannabis for personal use and don't need help aren't just thrown in jail if they aren't bothering anyone. The resources be there for people that need help instead of throwing money at police who are fighting a losing battle.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

So would you help rather than punish a drug user who had broken into someone's house in the middle of the night whilst they were in bed, or mugged someone in order to get money to fund their habit? Or simply help them only if they were found to be in possession and punish them for other drug related crime?
What about suppliers? Would you help rather than punish them if they had a drugs problem themselves?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

If the punishments were tough for possession do you think people would be less likely to risk it?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Punish them for mugging etc but help them for there addiction if they get help for addiction and loose there habbit they then dont have an addiction to feed by mugging and robbing houses. Then its a case of supply and demand if people are being cured of addiction there will be less demand and less dealers. What use is it to a drug user to be thrown in jail when they could be helped and police can have more resources for every supplier that is stopped another one will start its a never ending war. Portugal had very high drug use but since they changed the laws its still above average but its coming down.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Not addicts and the jails are already full and when people come out they will have no life and most likley be surrounded by drug users again

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I would only offer no criminal charges with possession of small amounts, any other crime is punishable regardless if they where a drug user or not, however the drug user would be offered hard core rehab, this to them would be worse than prison and in the long run could aid society.

No, addiction make them rob there own children and mothers punishment, ie prison is just part of the game.

Punishment for drink driving is you loose your licence and could face jail, how many do you think get done in a year? should this also be made tougher?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Prisons are easy to sort out, just build some more. This would create jobs and work.
Once they are built you would need Prision Offcers and Staff, so yet again more jobs.

The big problem with illegal drugs, is the fact that the whole supply chain is run by organised crime.
One of the most prolific suppliers to the UK is Morocco, it's grown in the Rif Mountains, not somewhere you are safe to visit. I should know, I used to live in Morocco.

As we cannot catch those at the top of the tree we have to prune the lower branches, unfortunately there is so much money involved you will never, ever get rid of the couriers, dealers etc.

Oh by the way, to those who may want to or have taken Cocaine and Heroin, it normally travels inside someone's stomach, wrapped in condoms or similar but would you wants to take something that has traveled though somebody's intestine?

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

In 2007, 83,975 convicted for drink drive offences.

Maybe we could learn one or two things from Sherrif Joe Arpaio, the pink underwear and maybe the Tent City.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

11pm closing Neil, don't remember that, well not in the pubs I used anyway:D

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

In the case of drink driving, first offence should be 5 years disqualification, second offence disqualification for life, end of storey

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

But isnt there worse crimes that go without a custodial sentence the extra room could be used for?

Not that I would take coke or heroin, but it would of not been touched as it would be sealed, IMO the big shipments would come in via different methods.

I agree for certain crimes tent city would be a good option, keeping the cost down to the tax payer.

Do you know if you had an argument with the other half and went to sleep in the car with the keys in the vehicle, if you where drunk and the police arrived, you could and probably would be done for drunk and in charge of a vehicle.

Or morning after the night before, you think you fine but your just over the limit.

Do the above deserve a 5 year ban.

The people who don't care, the repeat offender would carry on driving regardless banned or not, licence or not.

Going of BG figure in 2007 - 83,975 people would be banned for 5 years, or life if a second offence, this would have a very big impact on a lot of lives.

The above are diversions in an attempt to give strength to a weak argument.

Worse crimes need the law tightening up not the relaxing of laws on what you consider to be a lesser crime.

As for sleeping in the car, let the bitch be uncomfortable, I'll have the bed.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Don't worry dearie , I'll let you know;)

Slim Whitman- When I'm calling you - YouTube

As to the rest of the debate - am sickened to the heart by this sort of thing and hope "Cavalier Garinda" will turn up on the horizon to sort out the whole "Bluddless!" lot of you...

PS am thinking of using you as a profile-case for my next TEFL courses in "how not to write the Queen's English" -will have them all logging-in to Accyweb and reading your posts...after all it is a public forum...:rolleyes:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I have a solution to the shortage of prisons...and also to the problem of rehabilitation for those criminals who take drugs/ supply drugs.

We don't bother to put them in prison. We buy a remote Hebridean island, preferably somewhere cold damp and inhospitable....and we transport those involved with drugs to the island.........they will have to fend for themselves, they won't need prison officers to look after them, there will be no supply of drugs of any description and by the time their sentence is up they should have done their cold turkey and be fit to enter society again.

I agree with Less...we do not relax laws that aren't working...we look at why they aren't working and remedy the weaknesses. Reinforce the law, uphold the law......make the criminals pay(these are the dealers, the traffickers)
Two words - Zero Tolerance, that is what is needed, and punishment that isn't a cake walk.

I suppose that someone will come on now and tell me how these ideas contravene human rights........my answer is human rights imply responsibility on the part of each individual...if you can't demonstrate a degree of responsibility for yourslef and your actions, then don't bleat about human rights!

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Won't bleat about human rights, Margaret, but those in society who are among the weakest, need and deserve the support of those who are stronger.

Life is full of surpises and we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

No man is an Island -we all need the support of someone, at some point in our lives.

Some are lucky and find that support when they need it, others are less fortunate but this doesn't make them less worthy.

I believe in the fundamental goodness of mankind...may be deluded but that's how i see it.:)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I don't see drug sellers/pushers/ traffickers as weaker members of society...quite the opposite, they prey on those who they have made vulnerable.

The punishments for these people are laughable.

And as for those who are criminalised by taking drugs......well tough love...send them where they cannot get their hands on drugs.

I do not see you as deluded. But you can kill with kindness.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I meant thse who fall into the trap of becoing users for various reasons....

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

They are vulnerable because thay have made themselves so.....they have looked for something that their life is lacking, in illegal substances....they made themselves victims....and I hate that culture.....where everyone else is to blame. Doing something because all their friends are doing it. My mother used to say 'if your friend jumped on the fire would you do it too?'

Each of us has a choice. We have to take the responsibility for that choice. This may seem a tough stance, but it is something that I believe.
Legalising drugs would not make the choices easier, or less harmful.......it would just mean that the state was the drug dealer.....and when folk became hooked they would be blaming the state.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Sorry Margaret

That is too simplistic for me...we are all dealt diferent hands when we come into this world, it just isn't so easy ....

Shake up the balls. everyone wants to play -life is a bit of lottery after all...who knows what it will throw in your direction....

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Willy Nelson country singer uses cannabis...

Willie Nelson Advocates For The Legalization Of Marijuana - YouTube

Where you "anti-drugs" people get it wrong is that you do not accept that the first drug most people take is alcohol, then tobacco, then some may take cannabis, then others may take Heroin and so on and so on!

But the first drugs in the line are booze and fags - so you could say they are the first rungs on the ladder - if you see it like that! No Heroin user does not use tobacco or alcohol - so these acceptable drugs are actually the first drugs people use!

Also I wonder why all the shops and the name supermarkets sell King size Rizla's which only have one purpose; to make cannabis joints! So why do these mainstream shops sell them! :confused:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You are repeating the same old argument over and over again but adding nothing new, apart from naming celebrities who have taken drugs. Tobacco and alcohol are legal; it does not follow that cannabis should also be legalised.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

They are repeating the same argument over and over again also! Thank you very much!

Does cannabis make you mad? http://clear-uk.org/does-cannabis-make-you-mad/

Conclusion: Cannabis And Mental Health, The Case For Reform

Concerns of a link between cannabis and mental illness areperhaps the strongest argument for cannabis law reform.

Prohibition claim 1: Cannabis strength has increased massively in recent years

It may have done, but we don’t know for sure because prohibition makes proper monitoring of the trade impossible. If it has increased, the change was brought about by the workings of prohibition. Certainly a market shift did occur and went unnoticed for nearly 10 years because of the lack of proper control. If the fears that high THC levels impact on mental health are true, prohibition has made things worse. Under prohibition, cannabis is not a controlled drug.

Prohibition claim 2: The increased strength has lead to more cases of serious mental illness

There has been no increase in the rates of mental illness. But if increased potency (not strength) has taken place, it might make existing illness worse and be bad for those at risk. The need for a better understanding of the issues of potency and strength is obvious and proper regulation of the trade would address this.

Prohibition claim 3: The age people use cannabis has dropped and now it’s common for children to be heavy users

This is true, but it’s hardly an issue to support the workings of prohibition. That children have become ensnared in the unregulated and uncontrolled cannabis trade is entirely caused by prohibition.

Prohibition claim 4: The younger users start, the bigger the risk of developing serious mental illness

We might as well assume this is true, whether true or not. Children deserve the protection of the law which only a regulated trade could provide, prohibition treats them as criminals and drives all use – including problematic use – underground.

Prohibition claim 5: Lax attitudes to cannabis use have increased the number of users, therefore increasing the rates of the illness

As rates of serious mental illness have not increased in line with the increase in cannabis use, there is no evidence to support this, but the “lax attitudes” have come about through the failure of prohibition. Proper legal control and regulation would mean an end to “lax attitudes” and the introduction of proper, workable laws.

Prohibition claim 6: Prohibition is the best way to protect people from the dangers of cannabis use.

Prohibition means we don’t know what is sold as cannabis, how strong it is or how potent it is. We don’t know if it’s contaminated either after harvest or in the growing process through overuse of pesticides for example. We don’t know who sells it, where from or in what amounts. The only qualification to be a dealer is unaccountability. Cannabis users have no recourse to the law when things go wrong and sometimes violence is used. When this happens it will be those least able to defend themselves – such as ill people – who suffer most.

Prohibition is a con, it is not drug control. The only way to achieve drug control is to control the commercial supply industry, which means proper legalisation, licensing of dealers and premises, age restrictions and strength/potency information.

Treating those you claim to want to help as criminals is, well, simply mad.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

You asked about legalising illegal drugs in your start of this thread.
The answer came back a resounding no.

So why not accept it and stop your wittering on your question has been answered, so leave it at that, we know you would like to and now, you know we don't want to,

End of story.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Thanx Less -am fed up of seeing them wittering on about this too!:)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

No! by a few "die hards!" but what about Mr D, tommiasfc, Wrighty and a few others who are more open-minded.

Why don't Mobertol and Maggie P shut up and stop wittering! :rolleyes:

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

This subject has been exhausted on here. If you want to change the law regarding drugs, see your MP.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Well said-I'm fed up too!!:)

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

I have left this thread a few times, but have been enticed back by questions that you and others have asked....not that you really want to know the answers to these, as you have already decided on your entrenched position.

Oh and by the way, if you must refer to me, please do me the courtesy of using my proper name. To you, I am Margaret Pilkington(not Maggie P), until I let you know otherwise.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Bear in mind that Clear are a a pressure group working to reform the law.
For the other side,

Cannabis: key facts from the Royal College of Psychiatrists

For many of us, cannabis is a way to relax – 2 million people in the UK smoke it and half of all 16 to 29-year-olds have tried it. But research suggests that it can cause problems in some vulnerable people.

… How does cannabis work?

When smoked, cannabis from the lungs goes into the blood and is carried to every part of the body. Several chemicals in cannabis bind to receptors in areas of the brain that deal with pleasure, memory, thought, concentration and the awareness of time. There are two main kinds of chemical involved:
a group called the cannabinoids, which seem to give you the more pleasant effects – feeling relaxed, happy, sleepy, with colours appearing more vivid and music sounding better
THC, which seems to produce hallucinations, anxiety and paranoia.
These feelings don’t usually last long – although as the drug can stay in the system for some weeks, subtle effects can last a few days. Long-term use can make you depressed and less motivated.

… What is the risk to mental health?

Depression
1600 Australian children aged 14 to 15 years were studied for 7 years; the ones who used cannabis every day were five times more likely to become depressed and anxious by the end of the study.
Schizophrenia
If you start smoking cannabis before the age of 15 years, you are four times more likely to develop a psychotic illness. The more cannabis you use, the more likely you are to develop psychosis. It isn’t clear why cannabis use in adolescence seems to have such an effect, but it may be because the brain is still developing.

… Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Some people seem to get a short period of psychosis that is brought on by cannabis but which
stops soon after the cannabis is stopped.

… If it’s so dangerous, why don’t more of my friends get unwell?

Probably because most people don’t use cannabis before they are 15 and don’t go on smoking large amounts. Psychotic illness is quite unusual anyway – only about 1 in 200 people have it at any given time. Most of us probably don’t know that many people, so even if cannabis does increase the risk, you aren’t likely to notice an ‘epidemic’ among the people you know.

… What about other effects?

Education
The connection isn’t clear, but regular cannabis use does seem to affect how you do at school or college.

Employment
Cannabis users are more likely to leave work without permission, spend work time on personal matters or daydream. Regular users report that it has interfered with their work and social life.
Driving
A recent study in France showed that cannabis users are more than twice as likely to be the cause of a fatal crash than to be one of the victims.

… Is cannabis addictive?

Cannabis has some of the features of addictive drugs – a regular user has to take more and more to get the same effect (tolerance) and can get withdrawal symptoms.
Three out of four long-term users get cravings, half become irritable and seven out of ten switch to tobacco to try to stay off cannabis. Many find that they spend much of their life seeking, buying and using it. It is probably about as hard to stop as tobacco.

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Of course if you really really need drugs:

YouTube - Nelson Mandellas Crackabis

Re: Legalise "Illegal" Drugs?
 

Now copy & past something regarding alcohol & let see which is the most dangerous!

ZERO deaths from cannabis! .. how many from alcohol! ??

I know people who have smoked it for years , & go about there everyday business no problem , no side effects no naff all