Originally Posted by cashman (Post 967704)

So don't take em.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967705)

Wow sayeth the wise man! :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 967723)

Would you be happy if a young, close relative, was experimenting with all the illegal recreational drugs that are now readily available?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967732)

I wouldn't mind them taking good quality known drugs like ecstacy, cannabis if the dealer knew they were pure. But not if they went into a night club buying and using all sorts of unknown drugs.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967732)

I wouldn't mind them taking good quality known drugs like ecstacy, cannabis if the dealer knew they were pure. But not if they went into a night club buying and using all sorts of unknown drugs.

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 967736)

If ? There is no way the dealer will be shifting pure stuff as it'll cut into his margins & added to that I'd go ballistic if I knew one of my kith & kin were using such crap. :mad:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 967739)

Well personally I think you're idiotic.

The biggest danger isn't the quality control of the drugs.

It's the fact that the body soon gets used to them, and you need to increase the dose, or move on to stronger drugs, in order to replicate the euphoria that resulted, the very first time they were taken.

As stated earlier, not every dope smoker goes on to be addicted to heroin.

However, every smack head doesn't start off on heroin.

They arrive at that deseperate situation via 'soft' drugs.

By encouraging a young relative, that it's ok to experiment with cannabis and ecstacy, you are playing Russian roulette.

You don't know if they are susceptible to addictive behaviour, and will be one of the many who do move on to harder drug addiction, and a lifetime of misery.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967741)

Well I have done it myself so I am talking from that angle

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 967736)

If ? There is no way the dealer will be shifting pure stuff as it'll cut into his margins & added to that I'd go ballistic if I knew one of my kith & kin were using such crap. :mad: Mate, your moral compass is way out of kilter.

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 967748)

Think very carefully about what you're saying Fella, by your above statement are you inferring you've sold drugs on to others ?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967745)

I take it you've not taken any thing - as you refuse to clarify this.

Your arguments are what they used at school. I had heroine once in the 80's and I didn't like it so I didn't do it. At school they used that argument to try and put us off drugs but I have not been addicted to any drug except tobacco which I packed in nearly 3 years ago now!

I never moved to harder drugs. I think the argument saying - starting on softer drugs leads to hard drugs is idiotic - just like anyone can get in a car and knock someone over or have an accident, being used to stop someone driving.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 967749)

Don't worry.

He's a lost cause.

He really doesn't understand the basic reason that young people first take drugs.

It's to get high, off their face, out of it.

Soon the drugs that they first took no longer produce the same feeling.

That's when higher doses, or stronger drugs are sought, to replicate the inital reaction they had when they first took them.

That's the biggest danger.

Not if they were clinically produced in some clean laboratory, as opposed to some skanky flat.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967751)

Don't talk down to me fella, I can't be bothered with this argument it's a waste of time - nothing changes. My statment is clear - most people who take drugs regularly have a dealer who is reliable, ok they can't always be sure - but still they trust one person they use on a regular basis! That is all that I am saying as opposed to walking down the street and buying off anyone you meet at random. That is all I am saying.

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 967756)

I personally don't really care what people choose to do to themselves, we all make our own choices in this life. But to actively encourage & assist someone else to do something that will be harmful & dangerous just beggars belief.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 967754)

Theres no danger at all,when yer addled to start wi.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967751)

Don't talk down to me fella

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967751)

I can't be bothered with this argument it's a waste of time

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 967758)

What crud.

Still if you feel unable to carry on your campaign, so be it.

Sleep well.

Whoops.

Silly me.

You can't.

There's those scarily flashing traffic lights outside in the street, intent on keeping you awake all night.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967767)

You are talking rubbish! From your attitude I do not wish to talk to you again - I know you game and your little gang! Your not about reason you just about undermining decent discussion - you talk out your back side and I will not engage with you again! You muppet!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967767)

You are talking rubbish! From your attitude I do not wish to talk to you again - I know you game and your little gang! Your not about reason you just about undermining decent discussion - you talk out your back side and I will not engage with you again! You muppet!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967767)

You are talking rubbish! From your attitude I do not wish to talk to you again - I know you game and your little gang! Your not about reason you just about undermining decent discussion - you talk out your back side and I will not engage with you again! You muppet!

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 967773)

Uncanny, a similar synopsis from different people at about the same time.

your very own legend :- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". Carl Jung

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 967772)

Your brother ever have a little dabble with drugs?

My brother the troubled Tesco blackmailer | Accrington Observer - menmedia.co.uk

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967732)

I wouldn't mind them taking good quality known drugs like ecstacy, cannabis if the dealer knew they were pure. But not if they went into a night club buying and using all sorts of unknown drugs.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967775)

stick Accrington I wouldn't care of a bomb was dropped on it!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967732)

I wouldn't mind them taking good quality known drugs like ecstacy, cannabis if the dealer knew they were pure. But not if they went into a night club buying and using all sorts of unknown drugs.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967741)

Well I have done it myself so I am talking from that angle - maybe if I was in the position I would not allow it - unless i was in the position I can't really say for sure. If you know a dealer some have better quality than someone just met in a night club!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967775)

As far as I am concerned you are a bunch of nasty people and I will not come to this forum again stick it! I know your game Garinder, stick Accrington I wouldn't care of a bomb was dropped on it!

Moderator - I would like my account closed/cancelled!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967775)

As far as I am concerned you are a bunch of nasty people and I will not come to this forum again stick it! I know your game Garinder, stick Accrington I wouldn't care of a bomb was dropped on it!

Moderator - I would like my account closed/cancelled!

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 967794)

Your the kind of person who is nearly as dangerous as the dealers that sell the crap, your just an apologist for stupidity

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967862)

The point I am making in simple terms is - most people who use drugs have a regular dealer and over time, trust of that dealer and their wares builds up! As opposed to going down the street and buying off any dealer at random - it's basic common sense.

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 967799)

Goodbye then.
You present a point of view, that is rather skewed to the majority of people in the world. Then you throw your toys out if the basket when people disagree with you. Very Childish. We won't miss you, or you rantings

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 967863)

So in your twisted common sense the dealer who sells pure stuff is the good guy? yeh really are a space cadet.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by annesingleton (Post 967815)

I haven't looked at this thread before, it seems like it's caused some controversy!
My own experience from a professional standpoint is that amongst certain groups of young people there is a culture of substance misuse, mainly in the form of cannabis (skunk), alcohol and more recently 'bubble' or mephedrone which was initially sold under the guise of a plant food and only recently made illegal.
I won't talk about alcohol which is legal to use, but with regard to the two illegal substances I've mentioned, there appear to be no positive effects. In my experience they cause people to become demotivated, paranoid, violent, unable to think clearly or function properly on a day to day basis and have a negative and destructive influence on family life. Additionally there is a link to criminality because their need to access substances leads them to burgle properties both domestic and non domestic, to act impulsively which can lead to breaking into cars and stealing property from them or 'joyriding', and to respond with violence when under the influence of substances.
I know that alcohol can have similar effects but as I said previously it is not illegal to consume.
In my experience there are no positives to using drugs and it would be a very foolish move to legalise them.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967862)

The point I am making in simple terms is - most people who use drugs have a regular dealer and over time, trust of that dealer and their wares builds up! As opposed to going down the street and buying off any dealer at random - it's basic common sense.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967868)

I never said that! I am not saying "who sells pure stuff is the good guy!"! Some of you people are basically brainwashed, you see it in the Sun and you believe it without question!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967775)

As far as I am concerned you are a bunch of nasty people and I will not come to this forum again stick it!

Moderator - I would like my account closed/cancelled!

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 967871)

Well taking yer comment to its conclusion, Most people in my experience would "Never" knowingly trust a bad guy, Though many would trust a good un, Now thats Common Sense, yer saying Trust in a regular dealer over time builds up. but oer time folk in the main become addicted, n then probably are too addled to know anyway, Seems to me like a path yeh chose yerself way back.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 967872)

Change of heart ? Mate what you fail to grasp is that people, as individuals see & perceive things differently to others so there is a difference of viewpoint & opinion.

Now just because views & opinions aren't in line with yours & people argue contra to your vision of things doesn't make them "nasty people". It makes them who they are with their own values & conscience, live with that simple fact & life will really be much simpler.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967875)

Yes that said, but why does Garinda keep digging up my brother? Only one reason to undermine what I've said and that is "nasty!"

I am saying that some peoples views and opinions are based on knee jerk reactions and misinformation! :)

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967875)

Yes that said, but why does Garinda keep digging up my brother?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967880)

PS I told the moderators to delete my account. They asked me what the problem is and I came back and decided to comment on what had been said since. Problem is with Internet - you know an argument can't be won, so some people start muck-raking and sniping for brownie points!

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 967883)

Does that include you, resorting to name calling?
Bye again

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967887)

OK THIS IS MY LAST WORD ON THIS MATTER!

Originally Posted by Less (Post 967885)

Please don't go, not like this, it would be a great loss to the site, thanks to you I've learnt such a great deal about illegal substances.
Not from your input, just from the way others come on to correct you.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967868)

I never said that! I am not saying "who sells pure stuff is the good guy!"! Some of you people are basically brainwashed, you see it in the Sun and you believe it without question!

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 967892)

Well I don't read the Sun, but I think you'll find that even the Mirror condemns drugs and drug dealers, and this crap about building up trust with a dealer, so did the ladies of the night with Jack the Ripper until he turned a bit nasty, it appears from this thread its a bit one sided, I haven't seen too many people coming on here and standing the drug corner with you, so I just wonder who is right, think that must be easy to work out even for you

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967875)

Yes that said, but why does Garinda keep digging up my brother? Only one reason to undermine what I've said and that is "nasty!"

I am saying that some peoples views and opinions are based on knee jerk reactions and misinformation! :)

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967895)

Well I think that people may not want to post on this matter and the people that are opposing it are diehards who post a lot on all posts, like yourself, there have been a couple for, but they havn't stuck around. I don't think you can use the Ripper comparison! :confused:

The issue is people are going to take drugs, legal or illegal - so why put them in prison where they may become criminals in other ways than just partaking in cannabis or what ever else. Surely we need education and information as opposed to draconian measures such as prison! :rolleyes: :cool:

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967895)

The issue is people are going to take drugs, legal or illegal - so why put them in prison where they may become criminals in other ways than just partaking in cannabis or what ever else. Surely we need education and information as opposed to draconian measures such as prison! :rolleyes: :cool:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 967896)

Just curiosity.

Wondered if taking illegal drugs might increase the likelyhood of someone doing smething daft. Like get caught blackmailing Tesco.

There are a lot of known side effects, to these drugs. Some of which you've exhibited.

Uncontrolled rages, paranoia, insomnia, memory loss, saying one thing, then doing another.

Besides, regarding your brother, thankfully I don't know you from Adam, so any information known about you, is information you freely posted on a public forum.

You can bleat all you like, in your paranoid confusion, about a 'gang' of people, who have it in for you.

Like everyone else on here, I speak purely for myself.

What you've posted on here is both idiotic, and potentially dangerous. When you said you'd encourage youngsters to experiment with illegal drugs, as long as they came from a good dealer.

As stated earlier, the most dangerous aspect of these drugs isn't the quality control. It's the fact people have to increase the dose, or move on to harder drugs, because their bodies quickly get used to them, in order to experience the initial euphoria they felt, the first time they took them.

Legal, or illegal, recreational drugs cause many people, and their loved ones, untold misery.

Fact.

Feel free to ignore that, in your little drug addled bubble.

Just as you ignored your own post, saying you were leaving this forum, before carrying on with the same old guff.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 967905)

I rather feel that I should add a codicil or qualifier to statements I made earlier in this thread. My advocacy of the decriminalisation of controlled substances is predicated on a general move towards a society where the individual takes responsibility for the whole of his or her life, and where the intrusion of the state into the lives of citizens is reduced to the absolute practical minimum.

This is not an easy path to take, but I do feel that it is the only realistic path for a stable and balanced society. In the case of those partial to indulgence in what are at present controlled substances, the information is out there for you to make an informed choice. Whether you choose to take the opportunity to study the effects of your chosen poison or ignore the advice offered must be your choice and your choice alone; as also must be the acceptance of the consequences of your choices, whatever they may be.

I see it as the state's role to enable its citizens, not control them. Consequently, under such a system any illness resulting from free choice would not be treated by the NHS in the way it is now, but would rather entail additional charges for whatever treatment was deemed appropriate.

In short: the dumping of the nanny state would mean greater freedoms but it would also mean that nanny would no longer be there to kiss and make it better when it all goes wrong.

I hope I have made that clearer.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 967914)

Oh yer going again, don't let the door bang yer ass on the way out.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 967898)

Do the three posts you have made in this thread since you left mean that my appeal for you to stay has been taken on board?

What a joyous day this has now become.

I am tempted to give you karma but it may be addictive, I'll have to make up a Government report to find out.

Please insert a really large smiley face here to reassure you that I for one am happy with your decision.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967915)

In the ideal world I agree with you but the last thing the voters of Britain want is to think that people are not working and enjoying taking drugs.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 967931)

The urge to tut-tut and finger wag is a national disease. It almost never goes further than that.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967949)

Ian Dury and the Blockheads - Sex and Drugs and Rock & Roll - YouTube

I never said legalise all drugs! I was just bringing up the subject for debate. It's a very complicated issue...bla! bla! Back to square one!

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 967905)

I rather feel that I should add a codicil or qualifier to statements I made earlier in this thread. My advocacy of the decriminalisation of controlled substances is predicated on a general move towards a society where the individual takes responsibility for the whole of his or her life, and where the intrusion of the state into the lives of citizens is reduced to the absolute practical minimum.

This is not an easy path to take, but I do feel that it is the only realistic path for a stable and balanced society. In the case of those partial to indulgence in what are at present controlled substances, the information is out there for you to make an informed choice. Whether you choose to take the opportunity to study the effects of your chosen poison or ignore the advice offered must be your choice and your choice alone; as also must be the acceptance of the consequences of your choices, whatever they may be.

I see it as the state's role to enable its citizens, not control them. Consequently, under such a system any illness resulting from free choice would not be treated by the NHS in the way it is now, but would rather entail additional charges for whatever treatment was deemed appropriate.

In short: the dumping of the nanny state would mean greater freedoms but it would also mean that nanny would no longer be there to kiss and make it better when it all goes wrong.

I hope I have made that clearer.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967949)

I never said legalise all drugs! I was just bringing up the subject for debate. It's a very complicated issue...bla! bla! Back to square one!

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 967953)

OK, just for clarification, are there any drugs that you would legalise and, if so, which?

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 967969)

Well Edwina Curry once said "Eggs" were bad fer us,:D she was supposed to be credible.;)

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967964)

OK I said I wasn't going to use this forum but I am cleaning out my e-mail account and everytime someone posts I read it and...well fact is the Internet is a drug just like many other things!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967993)

At the end of the day your basically focusing personally on me instead of the issues! I'm glad your so keen on listing my faults when ignoring your own! Your like a stuck record mate!

On the subject of your grange hill video I notice the date is 1986! Strange that 2 years latter the country was ablaze with Acid House parties - so the record didn't have much impact.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967869)

Both those drugs are a product of the drugs laws!

1) Skunk was started by drugs dealers as a way of getting round the fact that it's easier to grow cannabis indoors using powerful lights which causes it to grow faster and be much stronger than normal. This is because naturally grown cannabis from India, Pakistan was not getting into the country and cutting off their supply. Hence they came up with the idea of growing it indoors in this way and that is what is Skunk. Skunk can be grown in any indoor space in the UK with the right equipment. It is well known that it makes people "psychotic" and does not have the relaxing effect of naturally grown cannabis. Which is why all these "Shameless" style little criminals like it.

2) Again Mephedrone was also a substitute for ecstasy which was increasingly harder to get.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 968054)

Don't let him disturb yeh anne, its a system fault, they closed too many nut houses.;)

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 967964)

OK I said I wasn't going to use this forum but I am cleaning out my e-mail account and everytime someone posts I read it and...well fact is the Internet is a drug just like many other things! Anyone going to dispute what I just wrote - yep the Internet is a drug!

There are conflicting reports about the effects of various drugs, for example last year Harvard Medical School published results of research into ecstasy and the conclusion was quote...

"A new study carried out by a team at Harvard Medical School and published in the journal Addiction last week, found no evidence that ecstasy causes brain damage. This is one of the largest ever studies into the effects of the drug ecstasy. The scientists responsible for the research concluded that many previous studies had made over-arching conclusions from insufficient data, and that the drug’s dangers have been greatly exaggerated. In contrast to many prior studies, ecstasy users in the new study showed no signs of cognitive impairment attributable to drug use: ecstasy use did not decrease mental ability."
Ecstasy Does Not Wreck the Mind

So this is new information from a highly credible source that contradicts claims from earlier sources, in which the way studies were conducted were biased.

So what I am asking is that honest facts be taken on board - not "knee jerk reactionism!"

Originally Posted by annesingleton (Post 968043)

I am talking from my own professional experience I'm not interested in the ins and outs of where stuff comes from but only the effects of it on the young people I work with and their families who I encounter on a day to day basis. I do not think you have an argument to answer here. You might know some facts but do you really know any realities? If not shut up! You are actually disturbing me by your inability to understand the real picture.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 968054)

Don't let him disturb yeh anne, its a system fault, they closed too many nut houses.;)

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 968117)

I don't think I've ever heard you say one intelligent thing Cashman - it's always sniping and cheap shots - nothing of substance!:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 968123)

Do recreational drugs leave all those who've used them, and who encourage others to take them, so paranoid, and angry?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 968130)

You really get on my nerves mate! The fact is you always make stupid comments after a lot of my posts and you have done for a long time you do it on purpose i know that! :rolleyes: That is fact not paranoia. Your a wind up merchant...End of!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 968117)

I don't think I've ever heard you say one intelligent thing Cashman - it's always sniping and cheap shots - nothing of substance!:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 968135)

Have you always struggled coping with things?

Was that why you first took drugs?

To artificially mask dealing with reality?

It's always wiser to face your problems, rather than to run and hide from them.

Recreational drugs only alter real life temporarily.

They aren't a long-term solution to people's inadequacies.

Just say no.

Seek real help.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 968117)

I don't think I've ever heard you say one intelligent thing Cashman - it's always sniping and cheap shots - nothing of substance!:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 968117)

I don't think I've ever heard you say one intelligent thing Cashman - it's always sniping and cheap shots - nothing of substance!:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 968138)

What I want to know Rindi is how long have you been mates with our drugy sympathiser:eek::eek:;)

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 968116)

I think your talking rot! I can't even be bothered answering you! You can't have a decent debate just attack me personally which is fact, like Garinda. I know a lot more about it Anne Singleton as I've seen it ,I survived it! The issue is there are a lot of stupid families out there. Again it's the same argument - do we ban cars because 1% of drivers knock children over and kill them!

Maybe you ought to look at television and it's negative impact on the minds of kids i.e. TV programs such as "Shameless" which for the last 10 years have been glamorising criminality and drug dealing and so on also all these music video's with the likes of Gangster Rap and other "cool" acts glamorising criminal behaviour which a lot of these youth gangs listen to!

Originally Posted by annesingleton (Post 968151)

I don't think Shameless is glamorous though.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 866952)

Professor Davie Nutt - The former government adviser on drugs explains why his latest research named alcohol as the most dangerous drug

David Nutt: 'The government cannot think logically about drugs' | UK news | The Guardian

Which leads to the questions:

1) Should we legalise currently illegal drugs?

2) Is alcohol and tobacco more damaging than LSD and Extacy etc?:confused:4

Kestrel X

Originally Posted by Wrighty (Post 968154)

Heroin - Deffo not imo , i have seen the destruction it causes

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 968156)

Did the people you saw, and their families, who'd had their lives destroyed by heroin, start their addiction with that drug?

Or did they start off on the slippery slope taking a 'softer' drug, cannabis say?