Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

no cashy it just shows how things are so different down there. its another world to the one we live in and it gets more and more different as the years go by. if i lived in london i,d vote remain also.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Why would you do that Monkey Hanger?
Yes it IS a different world down there....so many incomers.....there are many privileged, but also many disadvantaged too.
what does the EU do for those down there that would make them so insistent on flouting hard won democracy?

If I heard a bunch of politicians bad mouthing my country, my culture and my way of life I would want no part of their organisation...because it shows a lack of manners,integrity, decency and respect...and why would you want to be part of an organisation that did not respect you...but just wanted the money you were contributing?

I just do not 'get' it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228597]Why would you do that Monkey Hanger?
Yes it IS a different world down there....so many incomers.....there are many privileged, but also many disadvantaged too.
what does the EU do for those down there that would make them so insistent on flouting hard won democracy?

something must be working for them down there where the EU are concerned. might be wrong but at the referendum wasn,t the great majority of em vote for remain. since we joined the common market then the EU i doubt the average person down there has suffered the lack of investments as the north of england has and maybe they think its down to the EU. what does get me are the scots who seem to be more pro EU than anyone but is it used as a back door independance for supporters of that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Theres nothing at all wrong with voting remain, but sorry if they cannot accept a democratic vote they are SCUM as far as i'm concerned.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In 1975 when we were last asked to vote on the EEC(as it was then) I voted NOT to join...because I reckoned it was going to morph into the beast it has become...when I mentioned this to my dad...he laughed his socks off and said I was daft(or words to that effect).
I accepted that my vote was in the minority amd have spent all this time waiting to be asked again.
We SHOULD have been asked before that poor PM John Major signed our sovereignty away at Maastricht...but we were not.

Like Cashy I have no qualms about those who voted to remain(but think they are a bit deluded...and certainly over the last three years I have not felt overjoyed by their insultsdid they learn at the knees of their EU masters?)...by them trying to tell me I am too dim to understand what is at stake...I know what is at stake if we do NOT leave.

I voted with my heart(because I am a patriot)...but also with my brain because I have not lost my power of thought, analysis or reasoning. I read a lot, I searched out information that would help me to decide.
It was not about racism, it was about taking charge of our own destiny...not accepting rules handed down by people who had no interest is seeing our country succeed.
I reasoned that when Michel Barnier and JCJuncker rubbed their hands and grinned...that this deal was not in our favour.
It does not take a genius to work that out

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Unlike margaret i voted join back in the mists of time, but cannot recall people bitching about the result? this time it is full of people bitching, its only Democratic when it suits them, "fact", thats exactly why i say they are nowt but SCUM.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Back then Cashy it was about trade....that was(in my opinion) the worm to bait the hook.
Every treaty since then has been to take us further into the organisation....and from what I have read, it was a clear intention from the start to create a superstate of Europe.
Back then I did not have the ability to search and gen myself up....I really did not know what questions I needed to ask...but as you get more mature, your life experience equips you in a better way.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228602] poor PM John Major signed our sovereignty away at Maastricht...but we were not.

By poor PM do you mean:-
a/ A man that was stuck with a bad job and deserves sympathy for having to do it.
b/ A man without much brass.

Or

c/ One heck of a useless pillock that should never have got the job of PM in the first place.

The poor sod was only one shade of grey and even then he'd picked wrong tint of the most bland colour to reflect his personality,
The only person worse in decision making at that time was Edwina Curry of all the people in all the world to have an affair with was that guy.
Whatever did they do in bed for excitement? Risk putting a raw egg into their Horlicks just to see who would have to run to the bog first?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less...I would say option C.
He was about as much good as a knitted condom.
As for the rest of your post....I have just snorted some very hot tea down my nose.
It was a mistake to take a gulp then read your post.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Seems quite a few of E.U. countries are far from happy with the E.U, Greece, Austria, Italy, Finland fer starters.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Would have been easier listing those that are happy, Germany (or as I call their attitude to the market 4th Reich) & France ( though it's a contradiction in terms to say France is happy with ANYTHING).

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Forgot to add france to me list, Macron aint flavour of the month either .:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I haven't seen the results from other countries.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

we aint seen em all from Great Britain either the northern irish aint in yet.:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Margaret, the latter half of your post above is accurate, but the first part isn’t. The Brexit Party won 2 of the 8 MEP seats for London.

And as a perfect example of just how non-liberal and undemocratic are many LibDems, one of their women candidates (American sounding) elected in London said on the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation this morning that she didn’t accept the Brexit Party members as legitimately elected.
Not surprised, given that her entire party are Democracy-deniers and refuse to accept the majority vote in a 72% turn out (about twice the turn out of these Eurine elections).

I think Farage got it right, despite the BBC’s worst efforts to misrepresent the facts, that, in terms of the overall vote, the split appears very much like it was in the 2016 referendum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cr...elections-2019

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I am very happy to stand corrected.(it pleases me that not all of those in the capital swallow the pap fed to them)
It seems the Blackburn with Darwen bucked the Brexit trend....they voted for the Labour party(I wonder why).
As for the person from the Lib Dems who does not accept the swing to The
Brexit party as legitimate....it is an unfortunate fact of life that if they don't like something they can ignore it....how very democratic that is.

The one thing that would neutralise the Brexit party is for the new PM(whoever it is) to get us out without pandering to the rotten Withdrawal agreement that was negotiated by TM.

The EU have said that regardless of who takes over there will be no more negotiating.
Why wait for Halloween...? Just get us out now.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The sooner the better, but NOT holding my breath.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Best not to Cashy...they need those of us with some sense....and most of us are coffin dodgers anyway.
In fact there have been times when I have thought they are waiting for us to die off...then have another vote.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In his bid to garner support to become PM, Michael Gove has said he will offer British nationality to the three million EU nationals that were resident in the U.K. At the time of the referendum.

Normally the application for nationality costs £1330.00.
This is our money that he is sqandering....and giving yet another concession to the EU.
What are the EU going to be doing for British ex pats who live in Europe....diddly squat....that's what.
He thinks that this will get support for the Tory party....and heal the nation.
Were this lot dropped on their heads as babies?

Don't they listen and understand the anger felt by the electorate who already feel betrayed?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Aye, and when Gove caves in for demands for another referendum, lo, there’s an extra 3 million Remoaners who can now vote.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228604]Back then Cashy it was about trade....that was(in my opinion) the worm to bait the hook.

that seems to have worked also. remember pre common market we had a number of different industries that exported around the world especially to the commonwealth. owned a british car, went to work on a british bus, washed our clothes in a british washing machine and ate the great majority of our food that came from british fields. we ate things that were in season and didn,t starve because they were not. all we became was a dumping ground for imported euro stuff where people got wide eyed because in their opinion it must be good because it said made in germany on it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Exactly....it is just as cynical as that war criminal Tony Blairs plan to open the door to all comers the expand his voting base.
It is unfair for those who have already paid for their citizenship....is he going to give them their money back?
So rather than bringing the country together...healing it, he is creating yet another chasm.
Diabolical.
Let's hope that it is noted by those entitled to vote....and that he has shot his bolt by promising this.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228636]Exactly....it is just as cynical as that war criminal Tony Blairs plan to open the door to all comers the expand his voting base.
It is unfair for those who have already paid for their citizenship....is he going to give them their money back?
So rather than bringing the country together...healing it, he is creating yet another chasm.
Diabolical.

you just would not believe it if you haven,t seen it. remember though that there are a number who would like us to be EU citizens and not english or british ones.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thats a real worry folk are very gullible in general:eek:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1228635]Well, actually, we and the rest of the world and especially the EU have become the dumping ground of Chinese industry, they manage without making treaties with people they don't like and they manage to sell to anyone and everyone.

When we finally leave the rest of Europe to wallow in their own smug self serving attitudes, we may perhaps get the Chinese crap at an even cheaper rate, though if we'll ever be able to pay for it is another question, they make it so fast and cheap than even America can't keep up with the payments.

Of course I blame it all on about 50, 60 years ago when the Chinese sneaked into Liverpool with their chip shops, Oh, no they don't ruffle feathers cause no racial tension but look at the demise of the English chippy they beat the Indians for take aways hands down.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes lots of industries exported jobs and expertise to earn the Queen's award for Exports.
In gaining this they sold out to countries who had lower standards of living...and could therefore beat us into the dust on prices...
It was a big mistake.
China do not have to pay EU green levies to produce steel(British Steel pay through the nose to bring them in line with EU directives on emissions...and if they don't pay then the fines are something like £600million )Obviously this makes Chinese steel an attractive product...means the the profit margins are greater for the manufacturers who use Chinese steel to make the cars, the washers and anything else you care to mention that is made from steel.
The EU have also made it illegal for our government to help out the ailing industry...and we Brits are so stiff necked when it comes to abiding by the rules.
That is really one of the reasons why we need to be out.
Had we left by default in March then perhaps some of the money we would be saving (this extension is costing us 1 billion a month for diddly squat)could have gone to help the steel industry.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Now those snakes in the EU are telling us that they will extend the article 50 deadline as many times as is necessary to prevent a pro Brexit prime minister taking us out without ratifying the withdrawal agreement.
They do not want to carry the blame for the UK having a hard Brexit.

For goodness sake someone....anyone...get us out....right out.
No single market, no customs union, no free movement, no ECJ.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

its not that long ago those pigs said they wound not extend again, if people cant see what they are doing their I.Q. wants severely testing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The only way out is by ditching the withdrawal agreement....because it is very clear that there will be NO negotiation(no surprise there).... each extension means we are still paying in A billion pound per month....so that is right up their street.

We need to cut ALL ties with the the EU.
We need a PM who can fulfil the democratic obligations to the 17.4 million.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No Margaret, we need a PM that WILL fulfil the democratic result of all that voted that day, it's not just the Brexit vote that is being screwed it is the whole of our nation.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Dont look to me like "Any" can Bercow is seeing to that.? the piece of CRAP.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

He is one Man...supposed to be impartial, but he stands in the way of the democratic vote.
He is a treasonous goblin, full of bile and mischief.
He should be gone.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less, you are right.
I cannot see that person....can you?
And none of those who have so far put themselves forward are to be trusted.(all of them have said one thing and then done another...in respect of Brexit)
All of them are out to feather their own nests. I do not trust them as far as I can spit.
They will say one thing and do another....it was ever thus.
Democracy is dead...killed by self serving MP's.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

A writer in last weeks Observer criticised Our MP.

GJ has replied in this weeks rag.
I have not yet read it fully....my brain is still porridge until I have had two cups of builders tea.
However the gist of it is he is defending his voting record in Parliament.
I will get my brain into gear, read it and if it is worthy, I will scan and post it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Hammond says on news this morning if in October there has been no deal, then if the leader says out, he will vote against it, that demonstrates perfectly to me how much the vote of the people means to these pieces of CRAP.:mad:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

if there actually is someone like that i,m sure the remainers will use their dirty tricks brigade to find or make up stuff about them to pull this persons position down. for me its a near impossible job.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well of course he will Cashy...he is Remain through and through.....and one of the reasons that TM could not get agreement was because she, her advisers and many of her cabinet had not the stomach to leave.
After all it means that they would have to put in some effort to govern, rather than just rubber stamping edicts from Brussels.

But....and it is a big but....anyone opposing leaving without a deal runs the risk of triggering a general election.
This would be a risk because there is the fear that this would allow the Marxist into number ten.

The only way that would be averted is for a party(any party) to say they would be prepared to take the country out of the EU without accepting the withdrawal agreement....I feel sure that whichever party did this....they would be assured of a victory.
But then again....a lot of trust in what politicians say has been lost....and it will take time to be rebuilt.....and in the case of the major parties I think this is damn nigh impossible.

Just my opinion.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As for the letter from our representative at the Houses of Parliament.

It is basically trying to justify his actions down there....pointing out that he voted 'to the letter of the Manifesto'....that he voted to retain a customs union (he says this does not tie us to the EU....although being in such a union means that we continue to pay in to Brussels, have no say on regulations that might be passed, are still under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

He validates this stance by noting that Turkey is NOT an EU member but is part of the Customs union.
What he fails to say is that Turkey has ambition to join the EU....and that they are only in a PARTIAL customs union, which excludes services and agricultural produce).

He believes that being in the customs union would guarantee frictionless trade.....what he does not say is that being in the customs union means that we are much less likely to be able to do independent trade deals....that is at best....at worst we could be prevented from doing deals that are to our advantage.

It also means that our government cannot help ailing industries by giving them reductions in tariffs to make their product more commercial.

He mentions being a ten pound an hour factory worker.
It has not taught him much has it?

I would say to him....you are like the last Bank Holiday.....promised much, but delivered little, a great downpour of disappointment.....and this justification of his actions down in the metropolis just shows how little he really knows his local electorate....and how little he values them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Graham Jones also says in his article at the bottom of the page "Its easy to blame M.P.s but that just avoids the simple reality" well the reality is MOST M.Ps were remainers whatever Party "FACT" he has really Disgusted me , by completely ignoring that fact.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They do not want to accept the blame for anything.
I have not read his column because I cannot abide to read what he writes...I only read his letter because I wanted to see how he can justify his actions.
The tone in the letter was(in my opinion) very conciliatory.
It was not in the least bit aggressive because he cannot rubbish what is published in Hansard, because that is the daily record of what happens in the house.

His justifications do not impress me in the least.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We import something like 70% of produce from EU countries (things like fruit and veg, wine etc) are you telling me that these EU countries would shun trade with the U.K?
They need our trade, they need our tourists....are they going to refuse to allow people to visit their countries?
I really don't think so!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Bullshine NEVER washes with me.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Could I suggest he goes back to being a factory worker?

He'll find the hourly rate has gone up slightly since he last worked & he's can't be any worse doing that for a living than he is as an M.P.

Oh no, it's too late for him now he'll have to stick to his new job, factory work is like rocking horse **** around here these days.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less, he will not need to go back to factory work(even if there was some available)....he will have made so many connections that will pay him far better than any factory work....without getting his hands dirty.
Not only that he will not need to queue up at the tea urn with the great unwashed, illeducated plebs that he considers us to be.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Someone on TV....think it might have been Ian Hislop said that if we crashed out without a deal(he means the ratification of the WA) then under WTO we would have to 'go back, begging for them to trade with us'.

This kind of rhetoric from someone who is well educated irritates the crap,out of me. Not only that, it is misleading and untrue.

We would not need to go 'begging' as he puts it.
The countries of the EU, who currently sell to us(and also buy from us) would continue to do so....but without the restrictions imposed by EU regulations.

There is no doubt in my mind that for a time things might be tough, but so what.
Is it not worth getting through tough times to be free of this meddling, arrogant, undemocratic and corrupt organisation?
I think it is!

If we need to go back to growing our own stuff, eating things seasonally( though I don't think Chilean grapes, or Egyptian strawberries would be banned) then so be it.

We have managed in the past, we can do it again.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Michel Barnier says that majority of us voted for Brexit because of nostalgic desires to go back to when Britain was a great power.

This just shows how little he understands the British.
17.4 million voted to leave.....and I would guess every single one of those voters had their own reasons.

Some of the voters are not old enough to remember a time when we were not enmeshed in the EU.
I would suggest to him that many of us voted to leave to be Free from the single market, Free from the over arching jurisdiction of the ECJ, Free from the customs union, and Free from the ties that Freedom of movement creates.....that many of us also felt that how we were treated was questionable.

You do not denigrate allies, you do not insult friends, you do not try to humiliate and belittle your neighbour.
Michel Barnier and his crew will never fully understand how the leavers see the EU....but it has nothing at all to do with nostalgia for days past.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228726]

We would not need to go 'begging' as he puts it.
The countries of the EU, who currently sell to us(and also buy from us) would continue to do so....but without the restrictions imposed by EU regulations.


just looking at the motor industry for one. can you imagine the reaction of german and french car manufacturers if they were not allowed to export to the UK. would love to see it happening just to see what they would make of the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The thing is we do not buy motor cars....washing machines, kitchens anywhere near as regularly as we buy tomatoes, lettuces, olive oil, wine....the list goes on.
While these purchases are much smaller they still account for a lot of trade between, Holland,Spain, Italy et al.
The Med countries also rely on tourists visiting and spending their money.
They are not going to want us to take off to places like Thailand, Turkey and other places that will take money out of their economies.....because they really do depend on that money.

I have just been reading that the current Home Secretary Saj Javid has laid his cards on the table.
He says there will be no second referendum, no revocation of Article 50, no general election.
He also says that he would invest in serious preparation for leaving the EU by default(no ratification of the WA).
He says that if we did leave unratified he would fund technology to ensure no hard border in Ireland....he believes the technology exists for this to be possible.
My take on that is that this border belongs to the EU and it is THEY who should sort it out.

This man was the managing director of Deutsche Bank and has experience and skills in international negotiation, so he would not be reticent about going back to Brussels to try his hand(good luck with that one....I think it would fail regardless of who is doing the dealing)at getting a deal, but if it were not possible he would walk.....and we would leave by default.

Here is a man who has a plan....and he is confident enough to lay it out.
I think he is offering what the country voted for. Yes, he WAS a remainer, but he is a convert.....and true converts are more passionate about their new found values
All power to his elbow.
We need someone with this kind of backbone.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yeah, and presumably the majority of those happy to be in the EU are clearly nostalgic for the days when that Continent was run by Germany.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That majority is terminally STUPID wanting the E.U. to run our country.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I thought it was STILL run by Germany.

I feel sure that the terms and conditions of the hated Withdrawal agreement were cobbled together by Frau Merkel and Oily Robbins....and handed to TM to sugar coat and get through Parliament.

Obviously I have no evidence to suggest that IS what happened but just a gut feeling...I trust my gut.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And one of the leadership hopefuls...Michael Gove(or traitor Gove as I call him....stab you in the back Gove) says that if he gets into the driving seat he will delay leaving until late 2020 to try and get the Withdrawal agreement ratified.....it is for certain that The EU is not prepared to give a nanometre on this.

So he would try to gain support for a deal that was rotten when it was delivered and will be no less rotten at the end of 2020.

Maybe he is relying on the level of apathy allowing this agreement to be accepted.

Maybe he is thinking on having another vote.....one that will solve everything....take away the poisoned chalice that he himself wants to drink from....it won't.

It will dissolve any support that the political parties(all of them) currently have.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

On second thoughts....maybe he has realised that the leaders job is crap and that the way NOT to get it is to say something as ludicrous as this.
We can only hope so....then he can get back to learning how to stack a dishwasher.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

For my money Gove would be worse than May, and thats saying summat.:eek:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh yes, just an update on Sajid Javid....the other day he was saying 'no more extensions, no referendum, no general election....no revoking article 50....and no deal would not be ruled out'.
Today he is saying that he would not rule out extending article 50....meaning that we do not leave by default on Halloween.
But then, that's a politicians promise to the electorate.....it is nothing....it means nothing, so that lets him out too.
Maybe he has early onset memory failure...or maybe he is just another scoundrel like all the others.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I agree entirely. He is a snake, a traitor, a back stabber....someone so untrustworthy that he should be barred from the contest.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Nope, he should be allowed to stand, maybe then everyone will come to their senses and vote for someone worthwhile?

Oh dear that raises a few questions, such as will we be offered somone worthwhile worth voting for?

Is there anyone at all that could be put forward that is honest, trustworthy and willing to sacrifice their politically whoring career for the good of the people?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We are not going to be the ones voting though are we Less.
The Conservative party gets first dibs on that...they choose two possibles and then those who are rank and file Conservative party members will get a vote in who they think is best equipped.


If I am Honest(and I always try to be regardless of what others might think of my opinions) they are ALL a complete shower of Fisons.
All of them lack guts, none of them have a backbone that is made of anything more solid than blancmange...and there is not one that would cause the knocking of knees in Brussels.


There need to be a front bench that is ALL committed to Brexit...none of those flip floppers(because they could change their minds at the drop of a hat...and doubtless wil).
They all need to be people who have abhored the TM WAB...and who have not voted for it at any of the previous steps.


So can you think of any who fit the criteria...because I can't.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Should I apologize for President Trump calling Khan a "Stone Cold Loser"?
Or should I point out that he is correct more often than not when it comes to identifying particularly slimy members of the political persuasion.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No apologies needed.
Sadiq Khan is a small man with a small mentality.
Whatever he thinks of Donald Trump, he was duly elected by the American people and as such should be offered the respect of that office.
He may not like the man, or what he stands for, but this is an official state visit of a US President...he should swallow his personal feelings and respect the visit.
That he cannot do this shows just what kind of childish mentality he has.

As for Jeremy Corbin, leading a protest against Donald Trump....this man is a solid gold hypocrite....he accepts anti semites in his party, cosies himself up to all breeds of terrorists quite happily.
He should remove the plank from his own eye before he attempts to take a speck out of the eye of someone else.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

True but when you speak to Corbynites they say do some research hes nothing of the sort, they completely ignore photos of the slimebag having meetings with Hamas @ the Sein Finn back in the days when he did. which perfectly demonstrates how Biased and STUPID they are.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

There are none so blind as those who don't WANT to see.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If the me-jah can be believed (don’t start :rolleyes:) ‘Magic Granpa’ Corbyn refused to attend the state dinner at Buckingham Palace to honour the current President of the US. But then he invited said President to meet with him which, understandably, Trump turned down.
So, can we conclude that Corbyn is happy to meet Trump but cannot bring himself to eat with the Queen?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Corbyn would be quite happy to do away with Royalty, thats no secret. thats unless Abbott was to be queen of coarse.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It seems to me looking at recent happenings...not just in this country, there is a distinct lack of diplomacy and dignity in political circles and dealings.
The appalling behaviour of protesters who drenched a Trump supporter in milkshake is a wider symptom of the intolerance that has leached down through society.

I might not agree with your point of view, but I would defend your right to express it.

I believe that many of these divisions are media induced and encouraged.
I am sick of those who spend their time virtue signalling....whether it be about Brexit, climate change or political values.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The man is a solid gold hypocrite...as mentioned in a previous post.
JC is an opportunistic politician, with an eye on the main chance....who wants to be seen as a 'man of the people'.

I am sure that the Queen was quite relieved not to have to sit down at table with this rag-a-muffin Marxist....I know I would be.
The man is not fit to wipe dirt off her shoes(and I am no royalist)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The queen said the courage of those who fought on D-Day, the sacrifice etc etc will never be forgotten which is very true, Though that Hypocrite you speak of dont give a toss about those poor souls imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy...the Peterborough by - election that was created by the sacking of the Tory MP after her gaining a criminal record was won by the Labour candidate...638 votes ahead of the Brexit candidate.
I know that you said if there was a GE JC would not get in.....do you think this is a trend we should be fretting about...it really does worry me...the thought of a labour led coalition would be a disaster for this country.
One which I think would take decades to repair...not fixable in our lifetimes

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228813..it really does worry me...the thought of a labour led coalition would be a disaster for this country.
One which I think would take decades to repair...not fixable in our lifetimes[/QUOTE]

its certainly a frightening prospect. a labour/liberal coalition with corbyn and abbott about. the problem is there a sections of our communities where we both live cannot wait for that day to happen. we both know who they are. as for corbyn and others view of a democtratically elected leader of another country are concerned then they,d be the first in a queue if an african dictator visited our shores.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

683 votes is only a narrow victory, dunno what the majority was last time? but bet twas more? considering the brexit party has only been around 6 weeks old i aint that bothered about labour.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Just to clarify, Margaret, the disgraced former MP for Peterborough was Labour, so they held the seat. But only just against a party that is barely two months old!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh thanks for that. Always happy to be enlightened.
I mistakenly thought she was Tory as hers was the vote that swung a particular amendment.(had she still been incarcerated, then it would have been even Stevens....but then would Bercow...another traitorous wretch have been called upon to vote?....undoubtedly he would have voted the same way)

Yes, it is a good result for a party that is only a few weeks old...I would have felt more comfortable had bot major parties had a drubbing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

After seeing the protests in London and the disgraceful actions of Siobhan Prigent.....calling an elderly gent 'Nazi Scum' in such an aggressive manner, before throwing milkshake over him....this is a sort of fascism that the Labour Party has produced(Momentum is intolerant of any views which do not match up to theirs and are keen to remove Labour moderates from candidacy).....and this 'soft' violence of throwing milkshake is just as worrying and any other kind of violence and abuse.
How long will it be before someone puts something toxic into one of these containers?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I got the numbers wrong too.....duh!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

not bothered about labour on their own as i just cannot see it happening but can see a lab/lib coalition. the brexit party at the minute have the wind in their sails due to the brexit deal that never was. the next few months will see em gaining or loosing support depending on how negotiations go. we,ve reached a point now where people are voting the way they feel about brexit as if it was the one and only issue we have.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Labour are most definitely not in a position to get a majority, I don't really think any party can achieve a workable majority, but a Labour/ Lib-Dem coalition would be a worry....it would be a fractious partnership too.....with both parties having their own agendas.
Not something that would be good for either the electorate or the country.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The only thing concerns me,is the Brexit Party have NO Manifesto out at this point? if there was to be a Election many people will vote on more than just Brexit,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They are only weeks old Cashy so of course they have no manifesto.
But I feel sure that should a general election be called, there would be a manifesto.
Truthfully though, there can be be no real political business done until the Parties ratify Brexit.

Manifesto's.....what do they actually mean? After the vote to leave The EU they all promised in their Manifesto's that the result would be honoured.
Has it been honoured? No...it has not.
Manifesto's are the lies told by politicians to ensnare the electorates votes.....when they get into power they mean diddly squat.
They tell us what they THINK we want to hear....what we need to know.

Like JC telling the young people (a very cynical ploy to get their vote)their tuition fees would be cancelled....but not saying how this would be funded....other than he would tax the rich to the max.

The thing about that is...the rich can move themselves and their money to friendlier environments....taking jobs with them...removing investment.
So that would work well wouldn't it?

As far as people voting on other issues than Brexit....there are still a lot of people who do not vote with their brains, they vote for the banner....regardless of who is under it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Those that vote for the banner regardless, have the I.Q. of a slug they are totally brainless,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes, you are right, but they do exist and the parties love them....because they question nothing....they do not think any deeper than the rosette colour.

I do hope that an election is a long way off.
If the new PM(whoever it is) can sort out Brexit(and I think there will be be no movement or concessions from across the channel) then the Brexit party will be neutralised, since that is the whole reason it exists....so we will be back to the status quo as far as parties go.

If we do not get out by October31st then I think there will be some manure coming the way of all the established parties.

The media would have us believe that JC is measuring up.for red curtains for number ten.

Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes they exist and just to follow a banner shows how pathetic they are.
Unfortunately the manifestos aren’t aimed at the die hard members, they are aimed at the gullible easily swayed, haven’t got enough brain to decide if I should use an umbrella before I get wet brigade.
They are people like us, that get mugged at every election.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The Brexit Party is having a rally at the NEC on June 30 to discuss the need for a manifesto should an election suddenly be called.
Of course, Dave and Nick made fixed term Parliaments the law of the land so the next election should be 2022. But we now know just how much our MPs care about obeying the laws that they pass.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I don't think you fall into the category of the unquestioning voter.
The electorate still get mugged off...even if they question what is going on in politics...because once you have given them your vote they can do what the hell they please regardless of promises.

Those die hard members will believe what is being said because they believe their beloved party can do no wrong...You only have to look at Momentum to see that.

Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As always you are right (he said in the manner of a sleazy I need your vote politician), I question them but my questions fall on deaf ears, oh, for the good old days when a majority vote meant we WILL do what the people say, not this multi party load of spineless morons that can’t put morals in front of payment cheques.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The fact that the questions fall on deaf ears is NOT your fault.
It is the fault of the politicians who believe that their own opinions and views are more important than the elctorate they are SUPPOSED to be representing. That we are too dumb to make decisions which affect our lives.(how bloody arrogant is that?)
we can tell them what we expect of them until we are blue in the face, but if they do not take notice...well then your only recourse is to deny them your vote at the next election.....except the dummies keep putting back those that are as much use as a knitted condom......Where are their brains?
Loyalty does not cut it if they cannot represent the MAJORITY in their constituency.

Things will not change until there is proportional representation....and I can't see it on the horizon.

There is no possibility of anything other than coalition governments until that happens...and coalitions mean you get only the worst of two parties(or in some situations three)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228853]The fact that the questions fall on deaf ears is NOT your fault.
It is the fault of the politicians who believe that their own opinions and views are more important than the elctorate they are SUPPOSED to be representing. That we are too dumb to make decisions which affect our lives.(how bloody arrogant is that?)


but not too dumb to give em their majorities.. election time is the only time they want us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They do not get majorities....otherwise we would get governments that had a working majority to get the policies through the house.
We get 'hobbled' governments. Governments that cannot get policies passed without the support of(in the case of Cameron) Lib/Dems.....and their agenda was totally different to that of the Tory party....in the case of T.May....she had to rely on the DUP to bolster her government.

There is absolutely no likelihood of a party getting into power with a workable majority unless proportional representation is adopted.

If 24% of the electorate vote Tory, 23% vote Lib/Dem 14% vote independent(or a mix of the minor parties) and the remainder vote Labour(39%).....it looks like Labour had a majority...but the fact remains that 61% of the electorate are disappointed with the results....and I know I am bad at math, but 61% IS the majority here.

The more parties there are to share the votes and the less likely it is that we get effective government.
The parties ideologies are so far apart that two parties in tandem running the country is good for nobody.


The Labour Party lost sight of its core voters a long time ago.(New Labour were lilac....a mix of Tory and labour ideals)...and now with the current leader it is even further away from the people it was formed to support.
They appear to think that the electorate are ill educated.....and not fit to make decisions about the future.
Maybe they would like to adopt Soviet principles of re-education of those who are seen as dissenters.

They have practised 'constructive fudging'( by refusing to give a clear stance on Brexit)...in the hope that the in fighting in the Tory party will see it off and leave the political door open for them
JC has made no bones about his dislike of the EU in the past, but his strings are being pulled by those who would cancel article 50....keeping us firmly in the EU

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

all the spouting coming from the E.U. about they will not negotiate, says only one thing, if NO DEAL happens "THEY" have caused it. It also seems to me, some people are too "STUPID" to see that!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They are spouting because they fear for their money....and also for the trade we do with them
They have already said that even if the withdrawal agreement is not ratified and we leave on Oct 31st.....we may not be out until 2020.
I hope they will pay for holding us hostage.

I am not sure that Boris (if he becomes PM) will not wriggle out of getting us out.
He has said that we need to be out by Halloween, but has NOT said he will get us out by then.
I hope I am wrong to be chary and cynical
In the Evening Standard....that snake George Osborne predicts that Boris will take us into a second referendum.....so that would delay things.
If he does, both he and the Tory party are toast.

For goodness sake get us out....right out!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If there is one thing we do before we leave the EU I hope that it is this.

Apply for a grant to pay for the removal of all those stupid 'speed humps', the EU forced us to put in place, I doubt they have saved one life, though they have ruined many peoples cars and motoring pleasure.
I can agree with a 20 mph (or should that be a 32.1869Km per hour) speed limit on housing estates, after all it's speed that kills not someones exhaust grinding on an object that blocks the drains.

Should we get a petition going before it's too late?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Less;

Apply for a grant to pay for the removal of all those stupid 'speed humps', the EU forced us to put in place, I doubt they have saved one life, though they have ruined many peoples cars and motoring pleasure.


speed humps might actually cause accidents by you taking your eyes off the road where they are because you are looking for them and not in the distance like you should be doing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You can see many drivers positioning their cars to avoid them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Speed humps to me are the stupidest most dangerous things ever used in road safety, whoever dreamed them up is totally stupid imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

agreed cashy. like a lot of things they are fine in theory but not in practise. more should have been taken into account of drivers reaction to driving where they are positioned. i for one would hate to live outside one with listening to scraping exhausts, acceleratons and breaking all day. those down livingstone road on matchdays must make more noise than the extra traffic does.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

A bit like the chicanes in Dill hall Lane....you just see drivers slaloming....putting their lives at risk....and during the time when the children are going to and from school it is dangerous for them too.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They are on Charter Street also, not as bad as humps imho but still not great.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have diced with death on Charter St....taking Ma to the Rhyddings surgery in a taxi....loons do not slow down for these either....most of them would have been hard pressed to drive a camel safely.
I heard Steve(our taxi driver) mutter some strange Germanic sounding words under his breath more than once.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Sorry to get this thread back on track but I found this article very pertinent.

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/why-d...-get-it-wrong/

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Please don't be sorry....we were lost and wandering in the desert.
A bit like the current government.
This writer asks why the establishment got it so wrong.
Well, the first reason is that they are so far removed from the lives that ordinary people lead....and the difficulties that are endured by the man in the street appear to have no impact on politicians.
They also got it wrong by promising in the election manifestos to deliver what the democratic vote had determined....and that was to leave the EU.
They promised that we would not be tied to a single market or a customs union, that we would not be under the thumb of the ECJ, we would not be part of Schengen. So no free movement.
The electorate were ignored, insulted and taken for fools.
Add to that, the fact that something in the order of 80% of MP's had no desire to leave the EU....why would they?
They did not want to return to the job running the country....they wanted to let Brussels do the work....that way they always had someone to blame if the electorate did not like the rules.
Also many of these MP's have vested interests in staying in the EU.....(like Heseltine being given EU subsidies for not cultivating his farmland...the last thing he wants is to have to plant turnips.....and then PAY someone to dig them up and market them)
These ruling elite are not daft, but they think that we are.....that is where they went wrong.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh and I should have said that the article you posted the link to is very interesting.