Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Some good articles on the Briefings for Brexit web site, including this one.

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ironi...-border-issue/

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

A very well reasoned article, clearly explained and without all the scare tactics of the general media.

I object to the banner on the Sky News programs which proclaims 'Brexit Crisis' this feeds into the fear factor that some may feel about the issues.
It is almost subliminal conditioning.
Why can't it be termed Brexit Update....or Brexit News, or Brexit Bulletin.
All TV programs seem to portray everything about our exit from the EU in the most negative terms.

Blooming heck, it is a good job our parents and grandparents were not so Lily livered when they were faced with the difficulties caused by two wars.

It seems plain to me that our MP's and the government have forgotten how to govern....how to run the country.
Maybe it is because for four decades they have got used to being handed their orders from Brussels....they are all ring rusty.
Wait until the next election....I cannot see the electorate being in anything like a forgiving mood....some backsides are going to be permanently removed from the green leather of the HOC.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Our M.P.s as far as i'm concerned have PROVED beyond all doubt, they are NOT fit to represent the general public, Most of them from ALL parties voted to REMAIN, Cameron gave the public the Referendum and mainly have refused to accept the public choice. that to me proves beyond ALL doubt they are not fit to represent us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Our own M.P. proves what you say, remember before he was elected he was telling us he would fight for a referendum if elected?
What a turn around as soon as he got his bum on the seat and he was following the party line informing us that the EU was far too complex an issue for we mere mortals to understand and that it should be left in the hands of our representatives to make decisions.

I don't see anything complicated, we want out they want to keep us in and have us pay through the nose for them to have the privilege of blocking anything that we may want or need.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes...you are spot on Less.
The people in the House of Commons are only there because WE put them there.
When our own representative makes derogatory remarks about our intelligence....implying that we are too ill educated to vote...he needs to remember that the same people he is levelling these insults at, are the ones who voted for him.

We are all capable of seeing the evidence of our own eyes....we are all capable of determining whether(on the evidence of the actions of those 'negotiators' in Brussels) whether we think the UK is a valid member of the EU, a friend, an ally....and from where I stand they have treated us with utter contempt.
The whole ethos of the EU project is to demolish democracy, brick by brick, country by country.
Our MEP's have absolutely NO influence over rules and laws passed by the EU.
They are ALL decided by commissioners...unelected, cannot be removed, brook no challenges or appeals.
Is this what our Fathers and Grandfathers fought for?
To be ruled by someone who knows nothing of us...other than that we provide a hefty sum of money to be squandered by these faceless bureaucrats, cares nothing about us and would have us by the short and curlies if The PM's deal is accepted.

I want to be OUT....no customs deal, no single market, no,free movement, no ECJ meddling.
Right out not a half in/out to placate those who fear losing their place on the gravy train.

A thought strikes me....MP's never leave Parliament as poor men, do they?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Financially rich, however most are leaving, morally bankrupt.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Again Less...spot on.
The Bank of Morals does not pay for a life lived high on the hog....the life to which most MP's have become accustomed...and really that is all they care about because most of them are career politicians.
They went into politics without morals...so you cannot expect them to come out of politics having grown them!
Gone are the days when men and women went into politics with lofty ideals of bettering the lives of their constituents....and the public in general.
I view most politicians of today with the same regard I have for dog muck....I try not to get it on my shoes.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I always thought M.P.'s were self employed looked for an answer, everything about them vague and it seems to be a grey area, I did find this:-
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-em...of-Parliament#

Without any proof of their employment status, I think we can conclude that,


It's time they took a cold hard look at themselves and started working for the rest of us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The penny drops.
Of course they work for themselves Less.
While they are in the heady atmosphere of the capital, they are making contacts, networking....looking for the main chance should their constituents give them the boot.
They make more in their political life than many of their constituents will make in a lifetime of hard physical graft.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is interesting that people in the past had the same problems we have today. George Orwell wrote-
All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

History is a lesson....if you do not learn from it then you are destined to make the same mistakes....I don't know who said that....but it still is true today....I am just echoing what was said.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

What do you say to the remainers who insist that brexiteers have not come up with a single valid argument, for leaving the EU, apart from a few misconceptions?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Its simple the vote was to leave end of story, i would also put a few expletives in as well to knobs like that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well I would ask them to look at the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan.
And if that left them unconvinced I would suggest that perhaps they should take a good look at the Barcelona Drclaration
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qxBVxhFehKs

If you have never heard of this...and believe me, it has not been reported widely, so I think that many people will not have heard of it or know anything about it.

If you look at Europe and the EU, then much of what is proposed in both of these documents, has already come to pass.

The government of the EU is one of deception and it hopes to remove democracy and replace it by elitist government...because we, the people are not thought to be equal to the task of determining our own futures.
The EU aims to wipe out patriotism as this is felt to be a barrier to being 'controlled'...control is what it is about.

So that would be my considered response. It scares the bejasus out of me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have a cunning plan.
Instead of giving the EU the 38 billion quids or whatever the final sum amounts to, why not offer it to Ireland to come out of the EU.
That would stop the need for the backstop and hard borders.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Love it Russell!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In reference to the Barcelona declaration....I would guess that there are a number of sitting MP's who know nothing about this.
It isn't just what is being done....it is HOW it is being done....in a covert way.
As I said, the more I read and the more sinister the motives appear to be.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This is a touch confusing, are we still on a British standard billion? (1000,000,000,000) or have we along with the rest of the EU adopted the American billion (1000,000,000) I hope it's the latter we'll end up owing less, though the EU will no doubt try to hold out for the former 'owt that will give those grasping continentals more of our brass.

In 2017 R.O.I population was about 5 million so working on the American Billion they would get around £7,600 per person from us, that in itself is one heck of a bribe, if it's the British Billion they would have enough each to buy the U.K. after all, we'd be skint and a bit.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

From Wikipedia:-
In 1974, Prime Minister Harold Wilson confirmed that the government would use the word billion only in its short scale meaning (one thousand million). In a written answer to Robin Maxwell-Hyslop MP, who asked whether official usage would conform to the traditional British meaning of a million million, Wilson stated: "No. The word 'billion' is now used internationally to mean 1,000 million and it would be confusing if British Ministers were to use it in any other sense. I accept that it could still be interpreted in this country as 1 million million and I shall ask my colleagues to ensure that, if they do use it, there should be no ambiguity as to its meaning."

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The Queens Statement quote: (respecting different points of views" and "coming together to seek out the common ground)
doesn’t sound like our Queen is respecting the result of the referendum,
surely her statement should have read {my government has a duty to carry through the wishes of the people’s vote in the referendum**

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think the Queen is required to be impartial in politics.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Required and doing so are 2 different things.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The thing is Cashy....depending on which side of the divide you have parked your opinion on our exit, her comment could be interpreted either way.
To me,that says she was following protocol....she was neither saying she was for it or agin it

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Like her predecessor she is clearly not amused.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well i'm sure yeh know which side i'm on?:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No Cashy? Which side might that be?
:D:D:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Sorry....I am only kidding!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

While I agree with you Margaret that the Queen must be seen to be neutral in politics and her remarks are open to interpretation, the Queen does have the power to dissolve parliament, dismiss ministers including the Prime Minister, under what circumstances could the Queen invoke anyone of these actions and be a neutral in politics

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well, yes of course her comments were open to interpretation....and each side of the divide will believe she has sided with them....which is really a neat trick to be able to pull off.
As to your question....I don't think the Queen could do any of those things and still be seen as acting in a neutral manner.
I know that she could do those things, but I cannot see it actually happening.
The Queen is a wise old bird(I say that with the greatest respect).

Since the act of Parliament of 2011(I think!) that fixes the terms of Parliament,the Queen no longer has the power to dissolve Parliament.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Naughty girl!
You know.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less....thank you....I LOVE the 'girl' bit!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well you are a girl aren't you? We don't want any transgender rubbish upsetting the natives![emoji44]

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes....I was the last time I looked...but an OLD girl:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Parliament are to vote on an amendment tonight which would take no deal off the table. If no deal is not going to be allowed to happen, does anybody else feel uncomfortable that the EU will see this as their hand being strengthened ? If no deal is not to happen then doesn't that mean we have to accept some deal, any deal that the EU offers to avoid this ?
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes of course that is an uncomfortable situation....but I am not sure how this amendment will be effected.
I thought that if a deal could not be ratified, then the default position is to leave and revert to WTO rules.
I thought that a law had to be passed to ensure that this was not the case....and I don't think there would be time before the 29th of March.

I do not 'get' why these supposedly educated people cannot see that by removing the option of leaving without a deal means that we have leverage.

Leaving the EU in a disorderly manner is as damaging to the EU as it is for us...perhaps even more so.

Just an aside here.
That odious man TB says we should trust politicians to know better than us about the EU as it is their Day Job.....trusting politicians is what got us into this mess in the first place.
The job of MP's is to REPRESENT their constituents and disregard their own opinions.....THAT IS THEIR DAY JOB!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

What Cameron said when he announced the Referendum was " The result would be IT. simple as, we all know he expected a Remain Vote, but that matter not. These snake get MPs from "ALL" parties are nothing but LIARS, many whose constituents voted Leave the Bitch Yvette Cooper for one whose voters said 70% Leave have been betrayed, alsong with many others, thats the same Bitch that Didn't declare oer 60 grands worth,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well Grieves amendment has been defeated by 20 votes, they're now about to vote on the "Balls - Cooper woman" amendment.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And so has the coniving "Balls-Cooper" woman.


Oorah!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This amendment was just approved. Despite the metro media telling us for months that Parliament’s wish to avoid what they term ‘no deal’ (by which we know they really mean leaving) was overwhelming, it went through by 8 votes. So that’s really overwhelming.
But, as regards your question, Mark, this and any other amendment is non-binding on a Government. As Margaret suggests, it’s not at all clear how this amendment could be put into effect if the Government didn’t support it.
Anyway, looks like May has got ‘her’ (Brady’s) amendment.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well I'm confused, are we out yet? If not wake me up when we are, I've had more than a belly full of being lied to and I no longer believe the UK to be democratic.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is only democracy if the plebs(that is you and me Less) fall into line with what our patrician politicians(who know far better than the great, I'll educated unwashed) like.

They have forgotten that they are there to support and represent their voters.
They believe they are there to line their own pockets...book a place on the lucrative gravy train....that is their definition of democracy.

As for the current wrangling. I have lost track of what each of these amendments by spineless, gutless MP's mean in real terms.
If one of them is that the PM goes back to Brussels to wring something out of them, then I think she is on a vinegar trip.

The delaying of our leaving was never going to happen as Michel Barnier said they would not permit Article 50 to be extended....it could be revoked...but not extended.

I feel like you Less....wake me up when we are sat on the step outside the EU.....and I will spit through their letter box.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The golden rule of democracy is :- The people vote, the politicians implement actions that support that vote, they do what is required to ensure that the voters wishes are followed...they do not go through the details and decide which bits they like and which bits they do not.
They are not there to tell us that they know better than us...if that is the case why would we vote?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have honestly begun to think voting is a complete waste of time and effort,after a lifetime,its taken me that long for the penny to drop. unless there is damn big change in the mentality of those prats that are elected.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well, it is when you are made to believe that you can change something with your vote...then find that your vote means nothing, is worth nothing, because the political elite know better what is good for us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This lot, by that i mean all parties have completely destroyed the thought,that my vote means something, sad but true.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think that there are many more like us who are very disaffected by the way things are going at present.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

According to various media outlets:

"The EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier says the Irish backstop is "part and parcel" of the UK's Brexit deal and will not be renegotiated."

I must admit I'm getting confused now, the EU won't renegotiate, so we're still stuck with TM's deal which has already been voted against.

60 days to go...... are we in or out????

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Dont be confused just sit back and see what occurs, the E.U. have said exactly that quite a few times, then backtracked at the last min. i and no-one has any idea if that will be the case, just sit back sod it and see,no good at all bothering until theres summat to bother oer. Besides bothering never did nobody any good.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think that unless the crew in Brussels give some leeway(which they won't).....and I cannot see the deal as it is(it has already been rejected) getting through parliament(it is a crap deal anyway) then the legal position (as I understand it) is that we will make a disorderly exit.
And come the 30th of March, the sun will still rise and set....the sky won't fall in.

All the doom mongers that keep telling us it will be Armageddon are only guessing because no one knows what will happen....or how things will pan out.
I am not saying it will be easy or without lumps...but it has to be better in the long term.

We are strong enough to survive and eventually prosper.
(That will really stick in the craw of Barnier, Juncker, Tusk, Verhofstad, Merkel et al)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Neither - we're still 'shaking it all about' . .. . .

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh....Accymad....that so made me laugh!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In the words of Katy Perry, I think this sums it all up:

You're yes then you're no
You're in and you're out
You're up and you're down
You're wrong when it's right
It's black and it's white
We fight, we break up
We kiss, we make up
You, You don't really want to stay, no
You, but you don't really want to go-o
You're hot then you're cold
You're yes then you're no
You're in and you're out
You're up and you're down

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is interesting to note that our own representative abstained on all the recent momentous votes regarding the issues with our exit from the EU.
Now I suppose it depends on how you look at things.
He did not follow the instructions of the Labour whip, but the neither did he represent those who put him in Westminster.
He did nothing. I suppose that sums up our representative very neatly.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

cat among the pigeons Nigel Farage new Brexit Party

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I do not see that solving anything until proportional representation is implemented.
It will just further dilute the options and lead to more wishy-washy government because no one has a majority.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the two party systeam is beyond repair, but until proportional representation is implemented there is never going to be a government chosen by the people

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Has that actually happened? have heard rumours oer this for a few month now but seen nowt concrete? also think it may well be a bit late for that meself.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes the Brexit party has been officially filed & recorded as a party


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I also think it is too late.
There are rumblings about the Labour Party splitting because of the possibility of the deselection of the moderate Labour MP's....as opposed to those supporting JC.
This would not surprise me. The Labour Party has lost its way....it did so back in 1997 when it became New Labour(aka conservative lite party)

But like I said in a previous post, this will just mean that there is little chance of a party getting a convincing, workable majority.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If Labour M.P.s split as said today, then the Torys will walk the next election in my view.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I am not so sure about that...it will divide the cake into yet another portion....it will probably take voters from all parties....leading to there being less chance of a viable majority for any one party.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Apparently this new party was registered with the electoral commission on the 8th of February and Nigel Farage says that 100,000 people have signed up to it.

That is only a drop in the ocean and I don't have much hope of it being a success.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Have to say i am pretty certain Margaret, the only party that could depose em were Labour to me, that is now less likely.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy, I wish I had your confidence.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well its pretty simple to me, who else could possibly defeat teresa may? before these 7 left?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Margaret, a very rare bit of muddled thinking from you, unless i’m misreading things. I think proportional representation can often end up with “wishy-washy” government, sometimes with extreme minorities having the casting vote.

I don’t think it’s too late for a Brexit party. This debate is not going to go away for many years and, at the next general election, Brexit will still be a live topic.
If May gets her ‘deal’, we’ll be neither out nor in at the next election. Or maybe Bercow and his metroplitan mates can ensure there’s no ‘no deal’ on March 29th and extend Article 50 in the hope of having an election before having to make a decision.
Both ‘big’ parties will continue to equivocate on Brexit so voting for either will not resolve matters and deliver what the last referendum demanded.
But, if all the Leave voters backed the Brexit Party, even if just for one election, they could, as 50+% of the electorate, easily win the day (again!)
We told ‘em once, and I’m happy to tell ‘em again.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No, I just don't see how a 'first past the post' system of voting ensures a government that has been voted for by the electorate when there are more than two parties in the running.
First past the post works fine if there are only two parties, because the electorate know that their vote means something(or at least that is the theory).
But when there are multiple parties then you can NEVER have government that was voted for by the majority.
If the winning party polls 37% of the votes and the two other losing parties polled 31and32% respectively, then 63% of the voters did NOT vote for the winning party....so the majority of the electorate feels duped.

Proportional representation has not been implemented because it is felt that the electorate is too dim to understand the principle....it would mean casting a vote for candidates in order of your preference....and they think we are too thick to get this....but it would ensure that the majority of the electorate got the government they had voted for a fairer system than we have now...if that is wishy washy, it is because the candidates have no real interest in following their constituents wishes.

Probably most of the disaffection with politics has been caused by career politicians and champagne socialists.....those who have entered politics to gain advantages for themselves.
Those who have not worked at a 'real'(for want of a better word) job.
They are the ones who know very little of the lives that the little people...their voters, live.

So I hope that clarifies my meaning on that score.

I fully agree that the repercussions from Brexit are going to be with us for some time....but I still think it is too late for a Brexit Party(political, that is).
Come the 29th of March we will be out....with either the duff deal that leaves us hokey cokeying....or The default position, which means we revert to WTO rules( though article 24 says that we can continue trading with the EU without tariffs being applied for at least a couple of years....but the politicians don't tell you that do they)
Unless of course there are moves to extend Article 50(Barnier says he would NOT authorise that)....or the very worst case....they revoke Article 50 (there will be riots)

As for another referendum...that is untenable because it drastically undermines the democratic process.
If they did not respect one referendum, then why would they respect a second or a third...why not make it best of five?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If you want to talk wishy washy governments...think Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrat coalition government....that is what you get with a multi party system.
The current government had to go cap in hand to garner support from the DUP....for the very same reason....a poor electoral system that does not support a majority when there are more than two parties vying for votes.

Now, if this does not make sense to you....I don't know how better to explain it.
(I like to think that my mental powers are clean and sharp...but then, I would...wouldn't I? :) )

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Best of five?
There shouldn't even be a debate about a second referendum the voters in all their illeducated mass voted, the vote demands out, not a debate it was fair and square, we are prepared for any consequences no matter how much trouble they may or not be.
Let democracy rule as is right and legal.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I agree entirely Less.

The other thing that shows the calibre(or more accurately, the lack of it) is that these MP's who have defected to a 'non party' with no policies, no manifesto, no mandate from their constituents want to stay in the house as independents....remainers all of them!

You have to ask yourself 'should they be in the Palace of Westminster, or should they be in a crèche '
They do not respect the views of the people who voted for them, they do not respect the party under whose flag they have travelled....they throw a tantrum because they do not like a democratically reached decision...They stoop to low tactics to try and manipulate what THEY want....they take their ball and they go home.

They are paid handsomely and this is how they behave.
None of them has done the decent thing...resigned, created a by-election whereby their constituents could let them know exactly what they think of their performance.
Ill principled, self serving egotists...the lot of them.
Beneath contempt.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I fancied a quick google so I had one, do you know there are no restrictions on the ill educated voting in the U.K.?
In fact claiming that brexit was won by ill educated xenophobic morons is proof that you aren't fit to represent the people entitled to vote.
Taken from:-
https://www.mwcscot.org.uk/about-us/...eral-election/

Fair does, I haven't read of a politician that claims we exit voters are mentally incapable of voting but, if the above members of our society are deemed capable of voting there is no excuse for them (politicians) to put the blame on a persons mental capabilities just because the result wasn't what they wanted.

That is democracy.
:alright:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is a ploy used by those who want to close down a discussion(usually because they have no better argument for their case) call someone, rascist, thick, ill educated...put any adjective you like in the space.

You do not need to name call...that is playground stuff....you need to up your argument.

And there was one MP who said that the voters were too ill educated(or maybe he said that they 'did not understand...it boils down to the same thing)....let me try and think of who he represents....oh it is coming to me now...Hyndburn.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Margaret, I respect your view on Proprtional Representation, and suspect, eventually, it will come in. However, we great unwashed actually got a referendum on proportional representation in 2011. It was Nick Clegg’s Xmess present from his pal, Dave. The public voted by 67% to 32% against it!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That's a majority vote I wonder why it wasn't ignored, the referendum was.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

On a slightly different note, is it just me who thinks that the labour & Tory MP's who have resigned from their respective party's should also resign as an MP?
Surely, they can't just toddle off & create their own little independent party as that's not what their constituents voted them in as. To my mind, they should all resign & there should be by-elections in each of their constituencies.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Accymad...see my post number 2369.
It says exactly that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes, I remember it well.
I think it has to come eventually...though I may not be around to see it.

I don't think it was explained well enough.(I think the nuts and bolts of the system may have put some people off...after all everyone understands the concept of first past the post)...and until you have had several wishy washy governments because there is no workable majority, perhaps it does not seem important.
Perhaps the electorate are so disaffected that they will swallow absolutely any kind of rubbish government rather than change the system to something that would lead to better representation and be fairer.
Where there are several parties trying to get into government....the current system is unfair and in no way represents the votes of the electorate.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less, it is only democracy if they agree with the result...and they obviously did.
After all what chance had the Lib Dems of getting into government unless the system for voting was flawed and unfair.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oops, sorry Margaret - must've missed that :)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It's Ok....I am just glad someone else has the same ideas as me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=AccyMad;1224519]On a slightly different note, is it just me who thinks that the labour & Tory MP's who have resigned from their respective party's should also resign as an MP?

its certainly happened in the past where MP,s have changed parties but i think they have to actually wait till there is a general election before they can be voted out.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1224719]Was under impression if they resign,from their parties,then there has to be a By-Election? if thats correct this gutless scum should do so imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I wonder?

Would it be possible for us to take the U.K. to the court of human rights?

After all, not adhering to the democratic result of the referendum is against it's citizens human rights isn't it?

Not only that but, why has the E.U. not been up in arms telling them that it is wrong not to stick with the majority, they soon get onto their pedestal if they think the human rights of an illegal immigrant or a life term serving murderer are infringed, why can't they do the same for us?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh, you simplistic fool Less,

allow me to explain, the lawyers and other such officials are making too much money by being in the E.U. and representing these poor put down people so you and the rest of your fellow citizens wouldn't be able to find one to represent you and take on the case.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Got it in one Less.
You can be milk monitor this week.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I see MP’s that can’t agree on Brexit had no trouble on agreeing another pay rise of £2000

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They deserve it, they have a hell of a lot of indecisions and undemocratic moves to make over the coming months.[emoji848]

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This takes their income up to £79 K.....and that is without any perks or allowances.
Personally, I would not give them the steam off my tea.
The majority of them are a shower of fertliizer...guano....S.H.1 T.....doo doo.

As you can see I hold them in the highest esteem.....come the next election...they won't be knocking on MY door....well not unless they want a tongue lashing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This is an interesting read....and a bit scary too.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/1...brexit-deal-2/

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That makes perfect sense to a snake like Teresa May, who i believe has done sod all but bullshine people since the start.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The thing is Cashy, no newspaper is raising these issues so that people can see the fakery that is being sold to the electorate.

Now my understanding is that come the 29th....and if no agreement has been secured then we leave the EU on WTO rules.
Although these snakes are angling for an extension on article 50.... this will be charged at £1 billion quid a month.....so it will be in the interests of the EU to delay for as long as possible....and rake in the proceeds.

What ALSO has not been reported is that during the time after we leave. And for something like 2 years we can trade TARIFF FREE with all the EU countries.

We are not informed of these things because the elite political circles want to keep us in the dark and fearful of leaving.

The political Elite have their own agenda...and leaving the EU is not what they want to happen.
If we had voted to stay in then we would never have known what twisted lying snakes they all are...in it for their own ends.

I can't wait for the next GE....and the parties seeking votes....let any of them knock on my door and they will regret it.

I think democracy has died...that is if it ever existed(which I sincerely doubt).

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As for Theresa May...it would not have made one iota of difference who was negotiating....because the EU has 'negotiated' nothing.
You cannot negotiate unless both sides know where they want to be and are BOTH willing to make some compromises.
It is clear that the EU will give nothing...it is not in their interests....except the U.K. leaving without an agreement is as damaging to them(possibly more so) as it might be for us.

They also want to deter any other upstart countries who might want to emulate a U.K.exit.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I posted that link just to inform those who are interested, about what the TM deal really means....and it definitely does not mean us leaving...other than in name only.
It is not a good deal, in fact it is probably worse than the deal that David Cameron rejected.

I also feel that the dealings have been frustrated and drawn out to create Brexit 'fatigue'.....so that people get bored and will accept anything.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I'm just wondering what on earth these meaningful votes are supposed to achieve?

There's a vote again tomorrow on TM's deal, which has already been rejected once. Then there's another on the 13th on whether to leave with no deal, if the government rejects the no-deal it then votes on whether to extend Article 50. No one seems to know what happens if the vote is for no extension? Surely that would mean a no deal brexit?

I think you're right about brexit fatigue......

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think they are indicators....to see what the lie of the land is(but I may have misunderstood this)....and yet if that is the case how can they be meaningful?

To take 'no deal' out of the equation would remove any leverage(however minimal this might be) from the negotiations.
For goodness sake have none of these MP's ever played cards or domino's....you don't let your opponents see what cards you have in your hand.
Are they dummies or what?

The ONLY meaningful vote was the one in June 2016...and we were led to believe that the government would honour this.

So far this has not come to pass.

The blame for this lies on BOTH SIDES.
The EU have never showed any signs of real negotiation.....and both political parties are full of remainer snakes whose will is to thwart the will of the people.
Democracy, it seems, only counts if we vote the way they ....the elite, think we should.
Anything else and we are deemed to 'thick' to be able to make an informed vote.

NO BLOODY BACKBONE....ANY OF THEM!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yeh have nailed it correctly, the blame for this lies on all sides, most M.P.s wanted and voted remain, to feather their own nests, what the people voted never even counted to these snakes, the trouble is many are too STUPID to see what has occured.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think SOME are not astute enough to see they are being duped.
But remember way back when....it was our generation who were duped into believing that the EEC (as it was then) was always going to be just a trading organisation.

That was what the elite wanted us to think.

You can only make judgements based on the information that you have.
If that information is skewed or distorted (by the people you are being governed by...and are supposed to trust, because YOU put them there)then you are not going to make the right decisions.

All through the process of the UK's proposed exit from the EU I have read, and read, and read....all kinds of documents....boring dull stuff, stuff that fills me with despair for the way the politicians disregard their responsibilities.
I have learned much....but that has been because I do not swallow just what popular newsprint would like us to believe....because they too have their own agendas.

I think the latest developments may get acceptance in Parliament....but if it does and we go with the deal offered by the EU(even with the tweaks to the backstop) we are stuffed and will never truly be free of the blood sucking undemocratic organisation.....and they are slavverin' at this thought....that they have bamboozled the people of the UK.

Nowt new there is there?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thought not astute enough, was a nice way of saying stupid?:D:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If Northern Ireland is forced by May’s sell-out (i.e. Juncker’s deal) to remain under the control of the E.U. then, according to the article below, it would be in contravention of the EU’s own laws.
Remind anyone of that rallying call “No taxation without representation”?

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/the-b...-human-rights/

Bring on the Real Brexit Party at the next election.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Will it not be too late the next election? Does the lisbon treaty not knacker us up?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In what way, Cashy?
Unless we do get a ‘clean’ break from the E.U. at the end of this month, whatever those self-serving, spineless snakes in Whitehall and Brussels decide I doubt if this issue will go away.
Two referendum defeats hasn’t made Scottish independence go away because there’s a political party that is predicated on that one issue.
If the clear will of the British public is ‘defeated’ by “them’ then, if a Brexit Party was established I will vote for it.