Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Maybe the meeting at Chequers was NOT to plan policy, to brink the doom mongers to heel...Maybe it was to plan a nefarious route to keep us hand cuffed to Brussels forever.[/QUOTE]

a hell of a lot of those who know best for all of us poor thick sods wanted to remain even may. if you are not totally behind anything in life you will not put one hundred per cent into it wether its leaving the EU or playing football.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I prefer the Hotel California lyric...it seems more appropriate....
'You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave'

The current proposals would mean exactly that...and it is NOT what was voted for.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Have yez heard MAYS latest? agree with me or there will be NO BREXIT. i sincerely hope the bitch is dumped PDQ. the remaining cow is determined to have a soft brexit or stay in, i was foolish enough to believe the crap she spouted earlier.:mad:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well, I read it as get behind me and support my plan.....because we have already signed up to article 50....which means we will be out of the EU on 29th of March next year.
Whatever TM says it is happening.
Now whether that is with some kind of negotiated agreement on the thorny issues of trade or the ECJ or a customs union is a totally different matter.

My feeling is that when TM goes to Brussels with what is in the recent White Paper....Michel Barnier(his name means barrier, by the way) he will kick the proposals into the long grass.

This will mean that we will get what is termed a 'hard Brexit'...the EU want it to be like that because they passionately hope to see the UK fail.
This would deter other upstart nations from trying to follow suit.

It will not be a one foot in, one foot out deal. (A deal that would leave us as law takers and tax collectors for the EU....acolony of the E u if you like. I certainly do not want any part of a deal like that...because we would still be paying in) It would mean that we need pay none of the 39 billion pounds.....and we can take back our laws and borders....which is what most of the leavers voted for anyway.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

To be honest Margaret i aint convinced,he will kick it into touch, i think may has been talking to him on the Q.T. for quite awhile now hope i'm wrong but am very doubtful.:eek:also doubt if the want us to leave "Money Talks"

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy the media are owned by those who would wish to sow discord because a divided nation is one which is conqurable.
Article 50 was given Royal assent on the 16 th of March last year.
I don't think this can be revoked.(but I am willing to be educated if anyone out there knows differently)
My feelings are that there will not be an acceptable deal put forward.
I know there were reports the TM has run the proposals past Mutti Merkel, but her say so is no guarantee of success(right now both of these women are as popular as a snake at a picnic).
You are right that money talks, but the negotiators do not want to give a millimetre on anything....and it might just end up in a 'no deal' deal.
That would be far more preferable to the current proposals which would be nothing at all like leaving the EU and would cause and create no end of political turmoil...and it would be the death of democracy.
There is precious little trust in politics (and this is not just in the UK) as things stand.....it would demolish the last remains shreds of trust....it might even cause the outbreak of riots.
Anyone for a Molotov?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

To negotiate in ANY situation there has to be the desire on BOTH sides for an acceptable agreement to be reached.

I have seen nothing at all that leads me to conclude that the EU negotiators have any interest(which is a lot lower emotion than desire) in negotiating anything.

They want what they see as THEIR money, but do not want us to have a meaningful say in any part of the bargaining process.
What they wish to do is impose their rules on us and we are supposed to lie down and say 'Thank You very much Sir'.....something like what David Cameron did....a rubbish deal.
We take their fisons and then hand them the paper to wipe their bottom with.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Got a 404 error on that page Cashy.
And as I have said, the media are in it to sow discord...they want us to be fighting ourselves...it is to their advantage.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aled-minister/

Is this what you were wanting me to see?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That's a given merely on principle, anything we suggest will be disregarded by the eu because that's simply how they operate.



Should this be the case any decent UK PM would tell the eu, "Up yours! We're out of here!" Unfortunately we've got Treasoner DisMay "leading" us harder, deeper & faster into the cesspool of the eu.


She has to go! Regardless of the supposed apocalyptic consequences this would cause for the UK, she was an abysmal failure as home sec & now an even greater disaster as PM, unelected to boot!


I don't think Iv'e despised any other politician so vehemently with maybe the exception of the degenerate Blair, but DisMay is now easily outstripping him for my absolute detestation!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Have to say Day shes up there with Thatcher as a complete barsteward in my book.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Unfortunately, Margaret, I tend to agree with Cashy on this.
It stinks of a deal dreamed up by Whitehall mandarins and their comrades in Brussels. The dithering and delay has been deliberate so that there is no time to come up with an alternative and (most critically) to get a new Tory leader.
The EU will reject bits of it, so Quisling May can continue to pretend she's offering a tough deal, but not so much that May can then claim it's 90% of what she has asked for (of course no one in the metropolitan media will point out that what she is asking for is less than 10% of what people voted for).
The MPs, of both parties, will then approve the terms of surrender to avoid them risking defeat in an election and the loss of their privileges.
Hope I'm wrong but, given the evidence, I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I don't know if you are apologising for being with Cashy on this....if you are, then there is no need(Cashy is very astute and is good at smelling a rat)....and if you aren't then apologies from me for reading it wrong.

Of course this is the work of the pro EU Mandarins....especially the biggest traitor of all Oliver Robbins ( though my name for him is Oily Robbins...he is the man who left a confidential Brexit Dossier on the Eurostar)

I cannot see this white paper making it past the Brussels bureaucrats.

I also think that the electorate are watching with eagle eyes for any sleight of hand and I can see there being a whole load of trouble ahead if any of the things in the white paper are further 'negotiated'( meaning watered down...not in our interests).

Not coming up with an alternative means that there will be a no deal exit....because TM cannot stop the process of leaving.
She can however, do a dastardly deal which leaves us a vassal state.....but if this happens then it is the death of democracy and also the two party political system.
I do believe that the seeds of division have been sowed to explicitly create in fighting....almost a distraction if you like.
This is calculated to create unrest and confusion in both business and the population in general.

Time will tell.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If there is a no deal Brexit goods in and out of the country will turn to a standstill! Head of John Shirley Haulage who's been moving goods around Europe for 40 years says currently there are 200 Customs Clerks who check trucks at Dover. If there is a no deal Brexit we will need 8,000 Customs Clerks to deal with all the checks and of course there aren't that many so the movement of goods will stop.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is the opinion of a single haulier.
OK, he has a wealth of experience, but(and it is a big but) we have no idea what will happen between now and the date of leaving.
It is looking like there could be a NO DEAL...but the majority of those who voted to come out of the EU wanted it like that.
Not a half arsed hokey cokey deal.
I think we all knew that there would be some thorny problems to overcome...but that does not mean that they are insurmountable.
If it is a NO DEAL arrangement, then who is to say that the government will not implement some emergency measures to deal with the customs issues.
We are going to be having 39billion pounds to play with for a start.....that will employ a lot of security and customs people....raise the numbers of those in employment...those paying taxes, that in itself has to be a good thing for the economy.
I am sick of hearing the prognostications of those doom mongers (who so far as I have seen have been very wide of the mark) who are remainers in a brexit coat.
They DO NOT KNOW what will happen.

It is a case of 'what will be, will be'.
For me that is preferable to being a serfdom of the EU....with no say in what happens.

Whichever way you cut it the EU is going to find itself in something of a financial hole....so don't tell me that they won't want to sell their BMW's and their Washing machines here.....we buy more from them than we sell to them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If as you claim the Country will stand still due to leaving a corrupt system, why will we need 8,000 extra clerks to watch nothing happening?

Seems to be a touch of over staffing to me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Hey, that's 7,800 extra British jobs in Dover alone!
If we assume the same 3,900% increase in employment at all the ports, airports, and rail terminals around the country that's the country's unemployment 'problem' solved.
Project Fear? If you believe such crap, Kestrel, it's more like Project Idiot.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yeh just summed him up very nicely there.:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I wonder if anybody feels there will be any negative outcomes when we leave and if there will be, are they outweighed by the fact that the eu commisars won't be controlling us .
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Its rather obvious there will be, but like anything we will come through it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Also it was obvious before the Referendum took place, unless people were really dumb imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Leaving the EU will result in a whole raft of changes. Some will happen quickly, some slowly, some will be greeted by the majority, some by one or more minorities. Some of these changes will be regarded as good, some as bad. At this time it is useless to speculate on what these changes will be as no one knows what sort of exit will be negociated and even if this were known and carefully planned for the ‘Law of Unintended Consequences’ is certain to rear its helpful head and change things.

So far as I can see the only certainty is that we will not be in ‘The Britain that Never Joined the EU’, both Britain and the world have changed since that never happened. Its going to be interesting, maybe a bit like going abroad for the first time or something else you have never done before, you think you know what it will be like but there will be surprises. But as has been said by cashman we will muddle our way through it, and it will be interesting!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Hill Walker, I think you have summed up the situation very well.
Of course there are going to be great changes....and it depends on your viewpoint as to whether they are good or bad.
From my perspective we will be able determine our own course in the world without being shackled to an undemocratic and corrupt organisation.
One which has dictated to us, but allowed us very little say in the way things are.(it is interesting to note that a vote has never gone in Britains favour all the time we have been in the EU).
The population of this country were bamboozled from the outset.
We were sold a trading organisation....this morphed into something far more sinister.
Political alignment was not what we signed up to...or not knowingly.
The governments could have given us a say over the various changes(the changes in different treaties), but they didn't.
The Brussels mandarins are unelected and as far as I can see unaccountable. We cannot remove them if they are doing a bad job.
I will be happy to be out...totally out.Not the Hi-ho version that was beaten out at Chequers.
To me, that agreement is a fudge....we would be paying in to the EU pot forever, we would still be bound by EU legislation, but have no say in the formulation of legislation....and that to me is not the Brexit I voted for.

No one in their right mind believes that we can go back to how it was before we joined the EU....but what we can do is trade with who we want.
The EU sells us far more stuff than we buy from them.
Do you really think that they will refuse this business?
Do you really think that those countries that rely on tourism are going to be turning Brits away.
The EU has not been good for the P.I.G.S countries...many of the young people in these countries are unemployed....with rates running at around 49%.

It is in the interests of the EU to offer us the worst possible deal...they want to make an example of us and stop other countries like Italy and Greece from thinking that they too could leave.

We just have to roll our sleeves up and get on with it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yesterday evening I sat down and watched the repeat of “Whatever Happened to Spitting Image (2014)”. “What a shame its no longer being broadcast”, I thought, then I realised it would be impossible. The script writers would have nothing to do, the prophets of doom * and exuberance ** have taken all the lines they might have used. The puppet makers also would be under employed as there are so few of the main players worth modelling.

Its all got so grey and predictable, perhaps the last fortnight and particularly the last 48 hours of the negotiations will produce some results otherwise for years all sides *** will shake their heads and say “this was not well done”.

* prophets of doom = project fear
** prophets of exuberance = look at all the money we can reallocate
*** Britains for, Britains against, EU they didn’t did they, EU we should work together, and all shades in-between.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Once more I'll repeat myself, Margaret you are right.
The panic mongers & pro EU forecasters predict doom and gloom because over half the Country wish to go back to ruling our own lives.
If only they (the forecasters) could send their magnificent crystal ball back in time, THEN, the politicians that negotiated to join the Common Market would have been able to predict how the whole thing would pan out, not a market but a whole new life dominated by unwanted regulations that deprived our Country of trade, commerce & freedom.

Perhaps they would have said, no thanks?

We'll do nicely on our own, the rest of Europe can go swivel.

We have a second chance lets ignore the panic mongers and get on with a future for our Country.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thing is though Less i wouldn't trust May as far as i can spit.:eek:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh Less...I DO like the cut of your gib.

I especially like the bit about the EUrope can go swivel.

We should never have joined....we are not the kind of people who take kindly to being told what we can and cannot do.

The other thing about Brits is that we follow rules rigidly....where those in other countries (particularly France) bend the rules or sometimes ignore them completely....whichever fits their purpose.

If we do not escape the clutches of the EU, then we might just as well have lost WW2....because Germany is the dominant force in the EU....so though the rules come from Brussels, they are forged in Germany.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Whatever makes you think I do?

She's about as trustworthy as a local politician that goes back on his word over a referendum!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

She is in an unfortunate and unenviable position. The guy who set up the referendum did the cowardly thing and ran away once the result was known....shame on him!

She has been badly advised along the way.
Please do not think that the decisions being made are formulated by her...they are not.
They are formulated by senior civil servants(and this is a bit like being in the EU....they are unelected, unaccountable and cannot be removed by the electorate.Most of these civil servants have their own agendas and are horrified at the thought of leaving the EU....so they procrastinate and make life as complicated as possible)
Olly Robbins(a dyed in the wool Europhile) is in charge of our negotiations to leave....so how does that work?
The answer is...it doesn't.
Add to that the members of the government like Philip Hammond who are hampering all efforts made by the PM.
Letting the negotiators in Brussels see our hand of cards is not an intelligent way to conduct affairs is it?

It must be as difficult as shovelling fleas across a barnyard.
TM has not got a firm majority, so she is really between a rock and a hard place with a fire breathing dragon blowing smoke up her bum.

Now Cashy....do you want the job or not?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Here I have to disagree she needs to take lessons from this guy:-
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...Q4xbMecJYg8xHB
She is in power, she has to shoulder the burden, She has to do what is right for the majority otherwise, our Government is just as corrupt as the rest of the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And isn't that exactly what I was pointing out.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Harry S Truman who was in office until the early fifties had the sign on his desk that told everyone ' The Buck stops here'.
I wonder just how he would fare in political circles of today.
We can look back and see great politicians.
Politicians who went into politics with a totally different motivation.
Alas there are very few politicians of that calibre in politics (in the U.K....I do not know enough about global politics to comment on elsewhere) today.
If there were, then they would be drafted in to serve the cause of the electorate.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You might think so, however had she stood strong for us we wouldn't still be trying to leave politely , now is the time to be firm put the EU in its place and perhaps show that not just us, but other Countries would be better off without the two dominating powers.
We have been like a one legged man in an arse kicking competition for far too long.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I know I'm talking to the converted about getting out, but look at recent history, the extra Countries that were added to the EU they were and still are financially bankrupt, what did they have to offer?
Well as things have turned out absolutely ****** all they've made the whole charade even worse.
The only reason they were included was to add power to a corrupt system. The main player's get to be bully boys of Europe again.
As soon as we voted out we were told 'you will destabilise the EU and leave Europe vulnerable',
Nah, we are leaving just in time, the main protagonists are those that are making life difficult for us to leave, they enjoy ruling the roost and if we aren't careful they will willingly find a reason to not just rule but dominate, with all the sacrifices of the past meaning nothing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The destabilisation of the EU will happen if we leave without a reasonable deal....because there is going to be a huge shortfall in funds.
There has been NO negotiation by the Brussels side.....they have insulted us, they have bad mouthed us....but the truth is they need our money.....and for that reason they want to tie us in knots.

There never was any intention to allow us any kind of deal.
Why would they allow us to have a fair deal?
Such an event would be the green light for other disenchanted countries to,pack up and leave.

The financially bankrupt countries that have joined the EU have joined to TAKE from the organisation....not to contribute.
They were admitted to swell the numbers rather than swell the funds.
The voting system is weighted so that the countries with the biggest population have the most votes....which is why not a single vote has ever gone our way.

There was a team on the Wright Stuff today(hateful program that only invite loony lefties to,participate) all of whom said they were fearful of the chaos that would be created by a no deal situation.
Listening to them made me cringe.(the lily liveried creeps)...these luvvies said they had not met anyone on their travels that felt we would come out of this with any honour intact.
Well, that is except Martin Daubney....who had a very balanced view....and explained why 17.4 million people voted to leave....and leave with no deal preferred to a raw deal.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In the above, although I do think the EU to be a threat, It's not the people of these nations, the ordinary folk look back at history and know that NOTHING will be to their advantage, it will be grabbed by a few that have ambition and greed.

Folk keep talking about Russia being a threat, at the moment Russia is no threat, they will allow us the usual European in-fighting that has gone on for centuries, having learnt from the last conflagration they will wait until we've worn each other out and then, take what they want when they want it, by then, Europe will be too weak to do ****** all!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1215683]

There was a team on the Wright Stuff today(hateful program that only invite loony lefties to,participate) all of whom said they were fearful of the chaos that would be created by a no deal situation.
Listening to them made me cringe.(the lily liveried creeps)...these luvvies said they had not met anyone on their travels that felt we would come out of this with any honour intact.

funny how these people to a man or woman seem to have a very liberal outlook of all affairs. often wonder if they actually believe what they say. like those in the USA who are anti trump from the start. could be a way to look cool infront of their younger fans i suppose.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1215703]It's what's been termed 'Groupthink' by social psychologists. An almost universal mental affliction amongst the metropolitan me-dja.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

From the advice to businesses and citizens paper re a no deal outcome
"The papers reveal that British organic farmers won't be able to export their produce to the EU unless the bloc certifies U.K. standards — a process that can't start until after Brexit and takes nine months"
If Project Fear is to be believed there will be food shortages. Why are farmers exporting to the EU?
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is a really good question....and it just goes to show that you need not believe all of the things that the media spew out.
This stuff is generated by those who still have their noses out of joint as a result of the leave vote
You see, those of us who voted to leave are not supposed to be able to put two thoughts together...let alone do joined up thinking.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Its generated by those who get their pennies from the E.U. which determines the nature of noses outa joint.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Spot on Cashy...absolutely spot on

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No Deal Brexit could lead to awful low food standards,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rade-deal.html

US food standards allow some maggots in tinned foods.

Also fresh food for independent grocers, shops and restaurants - will dry up as lorry queues impede movement of fresh food stuffs coming into the UK.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/rat-ha...e-deal-2018-10

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

These are all prognostications....no one really knows what will happen.
COULD....is a very big word and it does not mean WILL.
There have been many so called educated people second guessing what would happen in the U.K....all of them without exception have been wide of the mark.
This is another page from the project Fear agenda.

For myself, I would rather put up with buying what we can grow ourselves rather than be in hock to the EU for however many years transition....that is not my idea of leaving. Indeed, it is NOT leaving, it is signing up to be a serfdom of the EU.

We will still have to pay in, will not have a say over the skulduggery of regulations passed by the Brussels mafia.....no, that is not a good deal, it is not a fair deal and it is just what the EU wants us to accept.
We were promised that no deal would be better than a raw deal.
I want to be OUT....right OUT....not hokey-cokeying...one foot in, one foot out.
I despise what the EU has become and how the so called negotiators have bullied and bad mouthed the UK.
They NEED our contributions more than we need them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Isn't democracy strange?
had the vote gone the other way by the same margin, we wouldn't be negotiating, we wouldn't be going Oh lawdy lordy, we are all doomed, we wouldn't be spouting on about a second referendum.
We would be stuck with the grasping unfair 'partners' that have always put our needs on equal terms?
If someone such as Farage dared to suggest the result was too close to be a positive one way or the other, the remainers would have shot him down claiming 'this is democracy in action' the people have spoken now leave us alone someone has just refilled the trough and if we don't pay attention others will get their unfair share before we can hog ours.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The thing is Less, those remainders see themselves as superior to us.
Superior in every way.
We, the plebs, the great unwashed and ill educated were never considered to be capable of putting two thoughts together. Let alone vote on such a momentous issue.
Well, here is the news.
I have eyes to see how we have been treated. I have ears to hear the slights that have been levelled against us and I take exception to them.
I just do not understand how those who voted to remain in the money pit that is the EU, cannot see that we have been treated with contempt by those who are supposed to be negotiating....there has been NO negotiating.
The EU has been absolutely and totally reluctant to give a centimetre....I always understood that negotiating had an element of compromise.
There has been none....not even a hint of one.
Why?
Because the UK are seen as upstarts and there are several countries waiting to see how things pan out before THEY decide what to do about their own membership.....so of course the Establishment of the EU want us to fail....and to do it spectacularly.
Accepting a poorly defined transition period will be just what they want....because we will still be in their thrall.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They are a load of undemocratic toss pots nothing else.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Maybe what we should be doing instead of negotiating we should be offering to take all the other disgruntled Countries with us?

Not just leave but offer a fair and honest alternative to the E.U.

Now I know so far as popularity our nation is and always has been low on the list, (in a world cup final even Poland would back Germany rather than us).

However, if we turned to these nations and said, lets form our own market where everyone actually is equal, you only put in what you can afford and you will get out your fair share, guaranteed by honest bookkeeping that will be capable of being signed off year by year.

What we have is integrity as a nation (Ok, Ok, ignore our present lot of politicians they are just about all bent), but historically we, the British nation can be trusted to play the white man with others.

we could set up an equivalent to Brussels in say, Bradford, proving we have no prejudice against Yorkshire or it's inhabitants which would go a long way towards ensuring equality with any other country that wishes to come along with us.

Imagine no longer pretending to be equal to the Germans or French even they might join us one day.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less, what a damn good idea.
Only let's not call it British Union Market! :)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

How about, Free Union for Continental Kinship and European Dignity?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Would that be them...or us Less?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Equal shares for all in Utopia.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I am fed up of reading these 'could' and 'might' stories.
I COULD win a chunk of money if I bought a lottery ticket.....but the odds are heavily against me.

The media love to print stories that second guess what MIGHT happen.....and there are those unfortunate people who cannot see past these two words....they cannot engage critical thought to let them come to some sort of reasoned idea.
That is NOT the fault of the media...it is the fault of the swallower.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well its the dustbin that keeps printing em.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

yes....I know, but it is unthinking individuals who keep believing this mush....and posting links.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I'm just surprised that anyone whichever way they voted is surprised at how the whole thing is going - Theresa May was wholeheartedly a remainer until she got the job as prime minister, albeit by default. For all her protestations that Brexit means Brexit & No deal is better than a raw deal, did anyone seriously expect that she meant it?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I always thought that getting ourselves out would be a crapfight....but I felt that although she was a remainer, she would honour the result of the referendum.
She has not had an easy ride of it.....and there have been times when I have felt sorry for her.
Not only has she had to deal with the pit of snakes that are supposed to negotiating our exit, but she has had a bigger pit of snakes in her own party.
All along the way she has been badly advised.....from calling a snap election(like that was going to work...and yet people kept on saying she did not have a mandate from the electorate) then the Chequers plan.
Firstly that was never going to go down well with Michel Barnier...or JC Junker...so it had little chance of success...but also the strong arm tactics of trying to get tory ministers on board was a bit like shovelling fleas across a barn yard.

When she took. on the role of PM she inherited a poison chalice...so I do not envy her one little bit.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I gave her the benefit of doubt, even though she made a balls when Home Sec, I think i was wrong to do so, agree its a poisoned chalice, but fail to see how she could be this stupid.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I really do not think she is stupid Cashy....she is presiding over a parliament that is a pit of self serving snakes, whose only interest is their own careers....not the interests of the country.
She has had so many daggers put in her back, from those who are supposed to be on her side.
She has had the hardest job of any prime minister since the last war....and very little backing.
There have been those who have openly let the people across the channel know the game plan. They would make bloody awful poker players.

It must have been gleeful for Michel Barnier and JCJunker to see the Tory party so divided.
A divided nation is easy to defeat...It played right into their hands.
So I don't think she carries all the blame on this.
It was never going to be easy...And I think I would have walked away and told them to 'give me a bell' when they can agree on some compromise.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I'm sure, like 14+ million other people, we are all sick and tired of two years of constantly being told why we voted to Leave, and just how misled we were. But those two years of political chicanery convince me of two things.

First is that the vast majority of MPs and the entire metropolitan media (especially the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation) continue to despise the electorate, consider us ignorant fools, and are certain they can manipulate us. The latest evidence is that pompous Keir Starmer, amongst others, telling us that no-one voted for a no deal.

But I recall that the only reason that Cameron called the referendum was that he'd come back from Brussels having failed to get any deal for minor changes from the EU.

So the truth is that the majority of the British people did actually vote for a no deal, because they knew that was the only thing on offer.

And the second thing is that I would vote for no deal to get out of the EU a second, third, fourth or as many times as asked.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is exactly right.
I would prefer that the EU did not spoil the habit of the lifetime we have been in it....to offer us anything of any value....they are villains and shysters whose only aim is to create a monster Federal States of Europe....with harmonised taxes, financial institutions and an EU Army.....and I also knew what I was voting for.
I knew that it was not going to be easy, but I am prepared to put up with whatever it takes for us to be free.

So Morecambe Ex-pat....I second your motion...and will third it and fourth it.

Our politicians are so out of touch with how the grass roots feel....especially in the North of the country.
I include our MP in that too....he seemed to think we were too dumb to wipe slavver off our chin, let alone vote on the issue.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

agree with most of that Margaret, but to me the stupidity is deserved, by calling that election?she knew the people in her party and what they were like, she was a remainer and i honestly think she still is, i dont believe for a min she has changed, though she made a damn good effort in conning people,she had, i include myself in that comment, so i also deserve the stupid tag.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No Cashy, you do not.
We have to put our trust in those we elect...even if they are not who we voted for.
We have to be governed....like it or not.
I think she was most definitely badly advised....but without knowing what the advice was or how it was put to her we should not judge. You can only make decisions on the information you have to hand at the time.
Maybe the snakey is civil servants(and none of them want us to leave) gave her misinformation....I don't know...but it would make sense to me.
Yes, she is a remainer but my belief is that she accepted the vote and set about trying to fulfill the wishes of the electorate.
In this she was thwarted at every turn...And I believe that this was the doing of very senior civil servants....she has presided over a nest of vipers.
Very little support has she had from any corner.

As for 'call me Dave' Cameron....he is a coward because he set this in motion and then ran for the hills.
That is not the action of an honourable man...in fact it is not even the action of a man...he is a wuss who could not handle the thought of going to Brussels again....they really slapped him down.
At least TM tried to make a fist of it....that she has not succeeded is down to those who telegraphed the battle plans to Brussels.
Those are the ones who should be held responsible....and the looney leftie luvvies.
If they like the EU so much let the flit.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

How come Dyson who is 100% Brexit isn't building his new electric car plant in the UK but in Singapore!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377

How come he's not making them in the UK? People like him will never suffer because of job losses caused by a hard Brexit if it comes to a no deal Brexit.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You tell us, yeh know it all.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The answer is simple...it is economics.

He is making them in Singapore to make them competitive.
It is what manufacturers do. Costs of labour and premises are lower in these countries...this impacts on the final price of the product.

James Dyson is rich, so whichever kind of Brexit happens it will hardly be a breeze across his brow.
Many of the left wing looney luvvies who have agitated for a second vote because they do not like the way things went, are also rich....they were not adversely affected by being in the EU....wanted to stay in it because it meant cheaper nannies cleaners etcetera, they were not going to be inconvenienced by the wait to see a GP....they could hoof it down Harley street.
Their children were not going to be held back in class because those incomers had no grasp of English....they can send their children to exclusive schools.
So being in the EU was a boon to them....they did not have to worry about crime either...they live in secured(often gated) communities.
They felt none of the chill that was caused by mass immigration and our porous borders.

Being in the EU drove down wages because of the influx of cheap labour, that is what the common man had to deal with....the wait for medical care, the deteriorating schools.
Mass immigration instigated by Tony Blair....without the appropriate infrastructure was a large part of the problem.
And please do not insult me with the rationale that councils cutting costs and lack of governmental support was the cause.
The cause was thirteen years of mismanaged Labour policies....money spent borrowed, not earned. PFI......all of those things were implicated.

Anyway, I don't care if there is no deal....we should have walked away from the table(I can't call the negotiations as there WAS no negotiation being done)a year ago...told those b's in Nrussels to call us when they were really ready to discuss what was on the table.

Has it not sunk in yet that the EU want to bring us to our knees?
Are you so weedy that you would want that?

No. Please don't bother to answer....I already know what the answer is.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have no clue where Nrussels is....I meant to type Brussels....but is obvious that my iPad hates the place every bit as much as I do.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If mp’s cannot accept the referendum vote, then why should we accept the vote which gave them a seat in parliament

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Can someone explain to me please about Northern Ireland saying they dont want an Hard Border, they want to be No different than us in the U.K.? If we go to France, Belgium or anywhere, is it not a hard border we have to go through?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well we voted for freedom and a democracy outside of the EU what being offered is a dictatorship inside the EU no border no rights and still paying into the EU coffers, vote first and take orders afterwards, is this May’s Brexit means Brexit, or is it disregard any referendum that I don’t agree with, what a wonderful democracy we are in

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have come to the conclusion that democracy is an illusion.
Whoever is in power, it is the (unelected)senior civil servants who pull all the strings.
If voting changed anything they would stop us from doing it....and yet, if the electorate makes the decisions, then that means the politicians are off the hook....they have someone else they can blame.
They think we are all brain dead morons anyway.
I despair for the future.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That sounds like a script from –Yes prime minister

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Out of £65.577.608 million people only 17.410.742 voted to leave and 16.141.241 voted to remain. Scotland voted 62% to remain. We could end of with Scotland separating from UK and also Northern Ireland.

Myths that have been published as headlines about the EU over the last 20 years:

EC regulations to ban playgrounds – Daily Express
Rolling acres outlawed by Brussels – The Telegraph
EU to scrap British exams – Sunday Express
Obscure EU law halting the sale of English oak seeds – Mail on Sunday
EU may try to ban sweet and toy ads – The Times
EU to tell British farmers what they can grow – Daily Mail
EU ‘Bans Boozing’ – Daily Star
Light ale to be forced to change its name by Eurocrats – Daily Mail
EU fanatics to be forced to sing dire anthem about EU ‘Motherland’ – The Sun
British apple trees facing chop by EU – The Times
EC plan to ban noisy toys – Sunday People
EU to ban bagpipes and trapeze artists – The Sun
Children to be banned from blowing up balloons, under EU safety rules – Daily Telegraph
Straight cucumbers – The Sun
Curved bananas banned by Brussels bureaucrats – The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express
Brussels bans barmaids from showing cleavage – The Sun, Daily Telegraph
Rumpole’s wig to scrapped by EU – Mail on Sunday
Church bells silenced by fear of EU law – Daily Telegraph
Motorists to be charged to drive in city centres under EU plans – Daily Telegraph
EU to stop binge drinking by slapping extra tax on our booze – The Sun
Brandy butter to be renamed ‘brandy spreadable fat’ – The European
British loaf of bread under threat from EU – Daily Mail
Truckers face EU ban on fry-ups – The Sun
EU to ban Union Flag from British meat packs – Daily Express
EU seeks to outlaw 60 dog breeds – Europa News Agency
Double-decker buses to be banned – Daily Telegraph
EU bans eating competition cakes – Timesonline
Now EU officials want control of your CANDLES – Daily Express
21-gun salutes are just too loud, Brussels tells the Royal Artillery – Mail on Sunday
Brussels threatens charity shops and car boot sales – Daily Mail
Plot to axe British number plates for standardised EU design – Daily Express
Women to be asked intimate details about sex lives in planned EU census – Daily Express
British cheese faces extinction under EU rules – PA News
EU meddlers ban kids on milk rounds – The Sun, The Telegraph
British chocolate to be renamed ‘vegelate’ under EU rules – Daily Mail
EU to ban church bells – Daily Telegraph
British film producers warn of new EU threat to industry – The Independent
Kilts to be branded womenswear by EU – Daily Record
EU to ban double decker buses – Daily Mail
Cod to be renamed ‘Gadus’ thanks to EU – Daily Mail
Brussels to restrict drinking habits of Britain’s coffee lovers – Daily Express
EU responsible for your hay fever – Daily Mail, The Times
Condom dimensions to be harmonised – Independent on Sunday
EU wants to BAN your photos of the London Eye – Daily Express
Corgis to be banned by EU – Daily Mail
EU forcing cows to wear nappies – Daily Mail
Eurocrats to ban crayons and colouring pencils – The Sun
Smoky bacon crisps face EU ban – Sunday Times
EU outlaws teeth whitening products – Daily Mail
Domain names – ‘.uk’ to be replaced by ‘.eu’ – Daily Mail
Brussels to ban HGV drivers from wearing glasses – The Times
New eggs cannot be called eggs – Daily Mail
EU to ban selling eggs by the dozen – Daily Mail
UK to be forced to adopt continental two pin plug – Daily Star, Daily Mail
EU targets traditional Sunday roast – Sun on Sunday
English Channel to be re-named ‘Anglo-French Pond’ – Daily Mail
Brussels to force EU flag on England shirts – Daily Mail
EU orders farmers to give toys to pigs – The Times
Firemen’s poles outlawed by EU – Daily Mail
Euro ban on food waste means swans cannot be fed – The Observer
Noise regulations to force football goers to wear earplugs – The Sun
Traditional Irish funeral under threat from EU – Daily Telegraph, The Times
EU to ban high-heel shoes for hairdressers – Daily Express
Commission to force fishermen to wear hairnets – Daily Telegraph
Brussels to ban herbal cures – Daily Express
Bureaucrats declare Britain is “not an island”– the Guardian
EU bid to ban life sentences for murderers – Daily Express
New EU map makes Kent part of France – Sunday Telegraph
EU tells Welsh how to grow their leeks – The Times
EU to ban lollipop ladies’ sticks – News of the World
EU plot to rename Trafalgar Square & Waterloo station – Daily Express
UK milk ‘pinta’ threatened by Brussels – The Sun
EU bans ‘mince’ pies – Daily Mail
Eurocrats say Santa must be a woman – The Sun
Now EU crackpots demand gypsy MPs – Daily Express
Brussels to outlaw mushy peas – The Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times
Brussels says shellfish must be given rest breaks on journeys – The Times
Pets must be pressure cooked after death – Sunday Telegraph
EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts – Daily Express
2-for-1 bargains to be scrapped by EU – Daily Mirror
EU madness: chat up bar girl and pub will be fined – Daily Star
Queen to be forced to get her own tea by EU – The Sun
EU tells women to hand in worn-out sex toys – The Sun
British rhubarb to be straight – The Sun
EU to ban rocking horses – The Sun
Scotch whisky rebranded a dangerous chemical by EU – Daily Telegraph
Brussels ban on pints of shandy – The Times
“High up” signs to be put on mountains – BBC
Euronotes cause impotence – Daily Mail
EU to ban under 16-year-olds from using Facebook – Daily Mail
Strawberries must be oval – The Sun
EU orders swings to be pulled down – Daily Express
Tea bags banned from being recycled – BBC
British lav to be replaced with Euro-loo – The Sun
Unwanted Valentine’s cards to be defined as sexual harrasment – Daily Telegraph
Bosses to be told what colour carpets to buy by EU – Daily Star
EU says British yoghurt to be renamed ‘Fermented Milk Pudding’ – Sunday Mirror
EU to ban zipper trousers – The Sun

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/...avourite-here/

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Dyson is still a hypocrite (he should be supporting his country the one he is telling to get out the EU) and many complaining about EU (leaving it) will be brown bread soon so it won't matter either way. Also the right wing also live in gated and security communities. Nigel Farage also is millionaire and has got his kids German passports for when the sh*t hits the fan and they can get out the country and also his wife is German too.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Talk about myths and distortion
Your opening line is a distortion of the facts out of 65m people only 17.4 voted to leave
but the fact is less than 46m of that 65m were eligible to vote, the only fact that matters is the majority voted to leave

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Why anyone takes notice of thin mon baffles me.he has always spouted crap on here.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

So, if I understand correctly and I'm only working on my own experiences here, if his wife is German then automatically his children have the right to dual nationality, he didn't sneak them a passport anymore than I did for my kids, (born here with a Southern Irish mother) this gives them a right to a passport for either Country, nothing underhand just the way it is.
As it is with my grandkids, their mother Russian they can choose which passports they wish to use, very handy when they decide either to work for the KGB or MI5 or maybe even the IRA!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No he is not a hypocrite...he is a businessman, interested in making products that will sell at a profit.
It is what businessmen do.
The UK would be a very expensive place to produce this product....making it less competitive.

Which right wingers are you talking about then....and because there are those with money who live in areas that are gated....makes it alright does it?

Those who have money and influence are not in a position to spout their looney ideas because they are not in touch with the world that we populate....and that includes most MP's.

As For Nigel Farage....well of course his children are going to have German passports as they have a German mother.....I would presume that she has family in Germany....they may also have English passports too.
But what has that got to do with anything?
Nigel Farage was an MEP.....or had that escaped your scrutiny.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As for your list of Myths..THEY MATTER NOT ONE JOT. (Can you prove that all these are bogus regulations? The European Commission are hardly an independent source....they are not going to portray the EU in anything other than favourable light)

There was a vote and the majority who took themselves to the polls voted to LEAVE the EU.
In the intervening period, those who voted to leave have been lambasted, insulted and wished dead....and even you mention this, as if it is something to be celebrated joyfully.

How thick are those who are agitating to stay in the EU?
They have seen the nasty tactics use by various EU 'negotiators' and I use that term in the loosest sense, because there has been NO attempt to negotiate.....still the remainers want to stay....WHY? We have been treated with nothing but contempt since the vote.
They wanted us to stay....but treated us appallingy.
All they really want is our contribution and without it they are in deep do-doo

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1219448]

How thick are those who are agitating to stay in the EU?
They have seen the nasty tactics use by various EU 'negotiators' and I use that term in the loosest sense, because there has been NO attempt to negotiate.....still the remainers want to stay....

the thing is the remainers think those like us who want out are the thick ones. its an issue i,m afraid that will divide the country longer than anything else has ever done. have always said that i cannot actually see us leaving and even if we did the deal we will get will be nowhere near what people who voted out really wanted.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Seems May has done exactly what i expected? sold us down the river, this will no doubt suit some of the knobheads,:mad:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This is not a deal..unless you ordered it RAW.
I cannot see this getting through Parliament.
Already Dominic Raab has resigned because he thinks it is a betrayal.
It is alleged that Sabine Wayand remarked that the deal left us under EU control....she later denied this(well, of course she would do). Michel Barnier, Donald Tusk, JCJuncker must be laughing their socks of....they have the money in their sights and the disunited UK by the gonads.

If we sign up to this then we cannot decide to leave without permission from the EU(how likely is it they will agree to let us leave?)...so it is a Remainers dream ticket.
It is definitely a 'Hotel California' situation.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

the whole thing reminds me of an old brian rix farce or a new carry on film thats about to be released. like putting the country into the hands of groucho marks and his brothers.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

May has repeatdly LIED to the British Public about Brexit oer the last 2 years, anyone care to deny this? the vote was simple people voted leave because wanted CONTROL of our country, hoe many times has May stated Brexit means Brexit? we cant even leave without E.U. agreement if this goes through, and whats more paying for the privilege,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

is anyone daft enough to believe Theresa May will still be prime minister come January 2019

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Idiot! Go and buy some brown bread! Fact is people have been brainwashed by daily rags like the Sun that the EU is evil, it was Tony Blair who let all the Muslims in, nothing to do with EU. UK is no longer an empire that rules the world.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You referring to the Tory party. God help us if we have an hard Brexit under Jacob Rees Mogg/Boris and co - they will be cutting our workers/human rights like there is no tomorrow.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

None of us are under any illusion that we have an empire and rule the world...that is not what we want.
We want to be able to determine our own destiny, rather than have the overlords in Nrussels dishing out their orders.
Successive governments have sold us down the river in respect of the EU.
It was sold to the British people as a TRADING alliance, not a political and fiscal union.
This is what it has morphed into....and we have only been asked once during my lifetime how we felt about it....it was mis-sold to us....and I want my money back.

We are supposedly important to the EU...or that is what Michel Barnier and Co would have us believe....yes, but they treat us like something that needs to be scraped off the sole of their shoe....insulted and disrespected....but you seem to feel that that treatment is alright, do you?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

There are all these prognostications about what MIGHT happen....what COULD happen....no one is in any position to judge. No-one knows.
Least of all you,unless you have seen some documentary evidence that workers/human rights are going to be cut...it is just scaremongering, another page in the chapter of Project Fear.

If this deal(God forbid) goes through then we will not be in any position to forge new trade deals, we will be handed rules from Brussels without any say in how they are formulated....they will certainly not be to our advantage because the EU would love us to fail in a spectacular manner.
They tell us that free movement will be stopped, but that is IF the EU do not pass some regulation that negates that....once they have our 39 billion in their back pocket they can do what the hell,they like and we will be powerless to do Jack about it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

simpleton

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Following the round of resignations we have seen today, I am left wondering if those who have 'resigned' were in fact greased up and slid out of the door so they don't cause too much of a rumpus. We have heard rumours of dirty tactics employed by the EU but I suspect our government are just as capable of underhand activities to get what they ultimately want.

In the democracy we are supposed to live in, why are all the discussions held behind closed doors and the minutes of such meetings not published? If we were privy to the discussions and more importantly the sticking points, both sides of this debate could offer constructive comments based on facts rather than guesswork. We keep hearing about 'the deal' as if the government are tendering for a new supply of paper clips.

I don't see our leaving the EU as a complex matter, we owe an amount of money to pay for arrangements we have already signed up to. This figure isn't a matter of guesswork, it is an amount which can be easily calculated by adding up the cost of all the individual deals we have agreed to. All this talk of tariffs which may be imposed on imported and exported goods is the thing standing in the way of free trade to and from the rest of Europe. The ramblings of many of the remoaners I have read seem to suggest that they are convinced that after March 2019, all EU import/export will cease. Nobody in their right mind would even think that French farmers, Italian Prosecco producers and all the other groups who sell us produce will be happy to lose our custom. There is only one thing standing in the way of simple free trade with Europe after we leave the EU and those are the damned self serving politicians on both sides of the EU border.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is only a hard job if you do not have the stomach for it.

Like you, I do not believe that life post Brexit(even if no deal is reached) will come to a grinding halt.

Look at all the doom mongering that went on straight after the vote.....and have any of them come true?

The fact that Guy Verhofstad, Donald Tusk, Michel Barnier are ready to welcome this deal should start the alarm bells ringing.
If they are happy to accept it, then it has to mean that it is NOT in our interests.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We hear all the doom and gloom about companies relocating to other countries post Brexit but why would they do that? If they are not present in this country to trade here why are they here in the first place? Some companies, Nissan springs to mind, did not build various car plants around the UK because they felt sorry for the poor old brits, they came here because of both our expertise and various sweeteners thrown their way.

we hear remoaners harping on about how it is going to set us back 50 years but why should it. If we manage to find a government capable of strong leadership we can be great once again. No doubt the doom and gloom merchants will jump on such claims as being unrealistic but success is bourn out of encouraging new business.

What exactly do the current government muppets do to encourage enterprise? This country makes a lot of money out of financial services but grass roots industry is what knits communities together and creates local wealth. Where are the start up units with peppercorn rents to encourage potential businesses to have a go? Our lot have not been able to think beyond selling all the social housing stock to make ends meet. It is time to give the professional politicians the big heave ho! and pass the reins to business minded people who can think beyond the short term and look towards long term wealth.

I wanted to rent some office space but what was available (all private) was exorbitantly expensive and out of my budget. Our local council don't have any office space available but they have managed to convert what was a learning centre, based in an old mill, into a very luxurious paper shuffling factory for their own employees. The money is there, the need is there but unfortunately the purse strings are in the hands of highly educated visionless idiots.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Absolutely spot on.

They have made heavy weather of the negotiations....that said, it has not helped that those in Brussels have known the game plan, (courtesy of government traitors)has made the most of a divided government.
Divide and conquer....that is how it is done.

Visionless and spineless....hellfire, it is a good job this lot were not around in 1939.

I despair for our future generations.
If something is worth having, it has to be earned....anything that comes easy is worth nothing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Morecambe Ex Pat;1219481]

we hear remoaners harping on about how it is going to set us back 50 years but why should it.

my god i wish it would. no eu, better standard of living, stronger trade unions, better health service and we,d know how to avoid thatcher and blair. has our life really improved since the common market and then the eu.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have seen a picture of Michel Barnier and Donald Tusk with the draft document in their hands....their broad grins tell me that this cannot be a good deal for us...it says 'now we have them by the short and curlies...let's see them get out of this one'

TM promised that no deal was better than a bad deal.

I cannot see how anyone can see this as a half decent deal...well, other than those across the channel and the remainers...to them it is a very good deal because it keeps us under tight control of the Brussels lot....with no say in how the rules are to be made.

In this deal we cannot leave without permission.....they talk about a no deal being like jumping off a cliff, but I would take my chance with that over this deal.

It looks like my bottle of Dom will be sitting for a good while yet.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I cannot see why we have to pay them to come out. I wish we could just say " Right that's it we're out" and let them sing for any money. We survived without them before the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If this deal goes through it will be a capitulation, a sell out of the electorate.
It could be 2099 and we will still be locked in...swallowing EU cod liver oil. Nasty.
Might as well get rid of the name Great. Ritalin and take on the name Province 12...we will have little relevance, no influence...we will be forever enslaved.
Glad to be at the bum end of my life....if I were younger I would emigrate.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=maxthecollie;1219506]I cannot see why we have to pay them to come out.

its like being a member of something like a golf club and they say you cannot resign you must pay for the privilege of doing so. that is unless there is a rule written in stone that member states have to pay if they do resign. more like they are making it up as they go along.