Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I voted to leave the EU and that means out of the single market, out of the customs union, an end to the open borders, and if our government can not or will not deliver that we should just walk away

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That was what I voted for too....not this half assed Hokey Cokey deal that leaves us without the ability to forge new trade deals with countries outside the EU.
America and Australia must be looking at us and wondering how we became so weak willed and spineless.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

the thing is actually what would happen if the government just said that as from a certain date in 2019 thats it we are leaving. what if any international laws would we break that would cost us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1219511]That was what I voted for too....not this half assed Hokey Cokey

more like altering the words of the grand old duke of york. once we were in we were in, once we are out we are out, but now we are only half way in we are neither in nor out.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I am starting to wonder what T.M. has been promised for this? it certainly didn't do Heath any harm.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I find it a real shame that the Trades Description Act does not apply to politics. If it did we would have had less rubbish talked by both sides before the referendum (possibly even some useful information) and we certainly should be being subjected to less verbal diarrhoea now as some remember the fines that should have been levied.

Perhaps not, I just consulted my dictionary for the word ‘politics’, it seems its a verb and the only example given is ‘engage in political activity: the cumbersome bureaucracy and politicking of the European Community’.

Aah well I should have guessed.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

david cameron gave us a referendum.
the ballot paper gave us two choices.
1: remain a member of the european union.
2: leave the european union.
the majority voted to leave.
the trouble was that the voters wanted to leave but the politions & 80% of the media wanted to remain, to me it seems like the government have been trying to water down the leave the european union to a version that suits the politions,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Its all about the MONEY them slugs will make if we Stay in the E.U. what the public voted dont matter 1 jot. the remain scum are saying many older voters have now died and many young that were not old enough now are.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Mark Francois(Tory MP for Rayleigh and Wickford) puts this fiasco at the door of pro-EU senior civil servants.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The senior civil servants will have no doubt played a part in this fiasco, but the politicos greed to me play the largest part, thats probably a deflection i think. the kinnocks are a good example of greed.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In fact its a damn good idea to blame Faceless / Nameless people for it, the more i think about it!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If you would like a Date Certain in 2019?
May I suggest the 4th of July?
It has a nice ring to it and the weather is usually good for a cook out and a party.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Olly (oily) Robbins name has to be favourite...I feel sure that he was in the pockets of those in Brussels...maybe he was chosen to be on the UK negotiating team(that's a joke in itself) because he was pro EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

only 6 cabinet ministers of david camerons govenment canpained or voted to leave the EU
here is what happened to them
priti patel, forced to resign 2017:
john whittingdale, sack by thresea may 2016:
theresa villiers, forced to resign 2016:
iain duncan smith, forced to resign 2016:
chris grayling, forced to resign 2016:
michael gove sacked by thresa may 2016:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We did sign up to help fund some projects and it is only right we keep to our promises but why has it taken 2 years to add a column of figures up with disagreement about what those numbers add up to.

I have a slide rule and an abacus if they need to borrow either of them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Why should we play fair if the E.U. dont?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Personally, I think THEY owe us money.
We have helped them twice out of the brown smelly sticky stuff....it seems that that counts for burger all.
The UK's problem has been that it slavishly follows the rules....and the EU know this and have used it to screw us to the floor on more than one occasion.
DAVID Cameron came back with a deal you would not wipe your bum on....TM's deal is not much different.
It is not what she promised, and I just hope that it is voted out....but I am afraid that this is a way of shackling us to the undemocrstic EU.

Why would we want to be dealt rules by this bunch.
Recently Italy came up with a budget...it was formulated by properly democratically elected politicians.
The EU(not elected by the people of Italy) have thrown this budget out and told them to 'think again' and if they cannot come up with something better, then there will be severe financial consequences.
What right has Brussels got to over ride the elected representatives of the people?

We could be in a similar position if we sign up to this as we will have no say over ruling that are passed by the Mandarins of the EU.

As I said in an earlier post....when you see the likes of Michel Barnier, Donald Tusk and Guy Verhofstad smiling, you know that the draft is going to be bad for us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well the tea drinking surrender monkey, Theresa May, just took a giant crap on the Rock of Gibraltar... snip, snip, snip. Things seem to be working out perfectly!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...9CCkJx14nR4qWo

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well, although this newspaper says it is independent, it has a very long history of being biased against every Tory government that has existed...leopards do not change their spots.

It reports that Spain would veto the draft proposals...in this respect I think it is wrong because it has been on the news here that Spain does not have the power to veto the proposal (Spain is the country that denied the Catalan governments referendum and indicted Catalans elected government).
Also, the leader of the Spanish government said he may not even attend the meeting....so that would sort out that veto.

Reading this media news provider is like doing a jigsaw puzzle....having just one piece and trying to decide what the picture is.

The whole business of extracting ourselves from the clutches of those who do not have our best interests at heart, has been a tough road.
The referendum was agreed by David Cameron....and on finding the results had gone against his advice, took the cowards way out and resigned rather than go back to Brussels.
How very manly of him.
He left the job to a woman. Whatever your opinions are of the PM. She has stood her ground,she has not given up...she has done more than many male politicians would have done, but in your eyes she is a 'surrender monkey'.....this is because she has not got the deal that we all would like.
Why is this?
Well, the answer is simple really....she is trying to please everyone and it cannot be done.
Not only that she is wrestling with a slimy organisation who have no desire to negotiate.
There has been NO negotiation...because it is NOT in the interest of Brussels to give us anything but a raw deal.
They want to see us fail....and fail spectacularly....that is their only aim.

It has been hard for Theresa May to negotiate because there have been enemies in her camp....enemies who have let the other side see the plan of action.
The political parties have been divided. And everyone knows that the best way to defeat a foe is to divide and scatter them.
The EU have done this very well.
I voted to leave the EU...and was promised that no deal would be better than a raw deal.
The deal on the table right now is no better than staying in the EU...we did not vote for this.

There is a way to go yet....it has to get through Parliament...and the chances of that look very slim.
This is brinkmanship.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We would have had the deal, or near to the deal that we voted for, if it were not for the Traitors in all the political parties.
The Labour party, the SNPeeee, the like of Ken Clark, Soubry, Damien Grieve to name just a few.

All of these people fed the EU with garbage that the 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU were as thick as mince and did not know what they voted for, well, as far as I am concerned, do not put all the blame on T. May. she never really had much of a chance. It will not get through The House of Commons, we should just say No Deal

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have to agree with Hilleluk, just tell em to get stuffed and walk away,there was always bound to be problems whatever happened with the referendum anyone who cant see that is short on common sense.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That was what should have happened as soon as it became clear that there would be no negotiation....only demands from the EU.
They want our cash...they need our cash and this so called deal will have us paying in with no say over legislation.
We will still have to follow EU directives and the ECJ will still have a hold over us.
This does not(in my opinion) constitute leaving.
I do not trust the EU to keep any promises it makes.

Maybe they are hoping to draw it all out until the 17.4 million who voted to leave, snuff it.
That would be it...problem solved!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

T. May has asked all MP's to back this so called deal, as it is good for the country, whether you voted remain or leave. This was a Democratic vote and leave won. They do not have anything to think about, they must all vote NO DEAL, otherwise democracy goes out the window

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They say the average European Union official has the organizing ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans, and the modesty of the French. Add the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch and the intelligence of the Irish and you can see the benefits of swift departure.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

When you see the officials in Brussels smiling at the thought of us committing to this deal....you KNOW it is no good for us...and very good for them.
There are a whole load of doomladen prophesies doing the rounds.....that we will be unable to get the chemicals that sanitise our water supplies....they are imported from the EU....I am sure that these suppliers will want to continue to trade....they want our money.
If it were so that we could not get supplies from them, then there is enough time to source alternative supplies....have it all at the ready...or better still get on and make it here.

I have said it before.... no one knows what will happen if and when.....all we need to show those across the channel, is that we are of one mind, strong resolve and ready to do what it takes.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I am not surprised they are all smiling, we are going to give the EU 39 billion, and for at least 21 years no auditor will sign off the books.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have never missed voting through out my life but if the government give us a referendum and then go against the will of the majority where is democracy

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

To them people mate Democracy only counts if it suits.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

if the vote had been for what the majority of them wanted in the first place to remain anyone who mentioned leaving again would be quickly shouted down saying you,ve had your chance and the majority wanted to remain. so you are totally spot on cashy.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

i,ll never vote again for anything if this happens. things are finished to me if it does.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That's exactly the response Whitehall and the EU want.
I'll vote again, too many people died to make that possible, but it will never be for any of the current parties that have had a hand in selling out the UK.
If this betrayal by the politicians, Whitehall mandarins, and the Metroplitan Media does go through there'll continue to be a decade of wrangling in British and EUSSR politics.
Macron got himself elected with a new party that was barely one year in existence and, if we all remember just who tried to cheat the electorate, voting could well be more effective next time around.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Exile on Spencer St;1219847, voting could well be more effective next time around.[/QUOTE]

only if those you mention get what they want then there may be another vote. sorry we voted once and for me thats it, end of.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well I voted to leave and wouldn’t be changing my vote but I do wonder with all the remain biased media, what would happen if we do get a so called peoples vote, as far as I’m concerned we had a peoples vote in the referendum but the remainders who obviously don’t believe in democracy at all believe we should just keep voting and hope one day the result will be what they want

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

People like those are unfit to be in Parliament or unfit to have a vote full stop. imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

While I would not relish a second vote on this issue(purely because it devalues the democratic process....it gives the message that it is irrelevant)...if a second vote was required I would vote exactly the same way.

As things stand, and if this deal does (somehow) get through Parliament, it will effectively mean that we are in hock to the EU for many many years(I do not trust those nefarious Brussels bods).....still paying, still swallowing the rules handed to us, but with no say(not that having a say made ANY appreciable difference in the past...and it will NOT be Brexit.

They will be sprinkling my grave with the vintage bottle of Dom Perignon that I have in reserve to celebrate our exit.

I really despair of seeing us leave....and I mean LEAVE entirely.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Where are our Men of abilities? Why do they not come forth to save their Country?
George Washington

Where are ours?
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Mark, I am sorry to tell you that there are none.
Men of strength and principle have died out to be replaced by those who only have interest in what they can do for themselves.

Unless there is anyone out there who knows of one.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We need somebody with fire in their bellies, maybe like old style Labour politicians.
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If only, but they died out with our heavy industries. What Labour has now are public school children and barristers.
It's partly because, over the past 43 years, the UK Parliament had nowt to do that it's currently filled with self-serving poltroons.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is so true.
The politicians were coasting...they were not doing anything like effective law making, they were quite happy for other people to make the rules and if we did not like these rules they would just shrug their shoulders as if to say 'what can we do about it?'......they had abdicated their responsibilities, but were still taking our money for doing the job.

They were quite happy to allow our sovereignty to be pawned....to be given to unelected people who have no interest in what is best for us. People we cannot remove by democratic process.
All those years we had no say in what was happening....what was being ALLOWED and it was being done in our name.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/...ll_mps_listen/

This is the headline on the front of today's DM.
It purports to be a survey of the everyday folk...the people who voted for Brexit. People like you and me. They do NOT represent my opinion...and I would like to be asked before they print bilge like this.
It will lead many to believe that it is a reasonable result for the questions asked.

How many people in the country participated in this survey do you think?
Was it ten thousand? Five thousand maybe? NO....it was less than 1100....and the DM thinks that this is representative of opinion in this country?
17.4 million voted to leave.
They were promised that NO DEAL would be preferable to a bum deal.
This deal is definitely a bum deal....it was signed off with relish in 27 minutes by the 27 members of the EU....that says it all.
It is a GOOD DEAL for them(they will have us in their clutches...along with our money, forever)
Do not swallow this garbage.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The Daily Mail headline is complete balls as far as i'm concerned, its just another effort to brainwash the people. just hope the people can see this, somehow have me doubts.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have dashed off a letter to them to tell them that a survey of 1030 by Survation, is NOT representative of the views of the 17.4 million who voted.
I don't think they will print it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They have no doubt put the views of people of their choosing,:rolleyes: Funny how these surveys never mention the average age of those interviewed.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1219904]
Men of strength and principle have died out to be replaced by those who only have interest in what they can do for themselves.


be interesting when there is the next general election. the weasels will be changing their coats every few minutes depending who they talk to to get your votes.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

T.May has had a real bad turn if she thinks touring the Country to try and persuade us that this is a good and only deal
It is a BAD deal. She should put her hands up now that the deal she signed is rubbish, send a delegation of MPs eg. Leadsom Jacob Reece Mog Ian Duncan Smith and Arlene Foster and tell the EU to thinks again

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I do not think the politicians realise that if this deal goes through, it will signal the end of democracy...or the illusion of democracy.
Being the cynical person that I am(this is the result of life experience) I have always said that democracy does not exist....and that if voting changed anything, they(the people who see themselves as the elite) would stop us from doing it..

There have been times in my life when I have not been able to cast an effective vote.....but I have always used my ballot paper....I will continue to do that...even if it is only to write 'What? Vote for these to$$ers?'

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I wondered if the Polling company had any political leanings, but I cannot find anything.
I reckon that it is not the polling company that are to be censured, but the publication which commissioned it and paid for it.
I would like to see the criteria for the inclusion of participants, where (geographically) it was conducted(I suspect it was London and the Home Counties....it certainly was not North of Watford)....the survey was far too small to be accurately representative of public opinion.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=hilleluk;1219937]T.May has had a real bad turn if she thinks touring the Country to try and persuade us that this is a good and only deal

if she did and had 100 per cent support from the british public there still would be no guarentee it would get through parliament. thats what democracy really means and always has.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Daily Express..
"Brexit LIVE: ‘POWER is with us!’ Utter disbelief as Brussels chief GLOATS at May’s deal."

You xenophobic village idiots have cut your own throats and the throats of Britons as yet unborn. You will reduce the country to the status of Greece, but with 5hitty weather. The UK have tried to punch above their weight since WW2 and now the government has thrown in the towel on your behalf.
Just booked a trip home for March when I expect the Pound will crap the bed? It will be cheaper than going to Mexico. I will bring some cancer meds and food parcels.

Will the last one alive please turn the lights off....Having fun yet?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...may-trade-deal

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It seems that you hold us in contempt....(bit like those in the EU)so why bother coming over here?
Oh, yes....I guess you have family here....you sit in your ivory tower over in the good old US and make judgements about things you can have no real idea about.

You left.
We are still here. How would you like Mexico to be making your laws?
Telling you what you can do and cannot do.
We had a democratic vote.
That the politicians who are doing the dealing have made a crap fight of it is not of our making.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The fact that Brussels is gloating should tell you something about WHY we want to be free of them.
My father fought for our freedom....it has been insidiously given away by successive mealy mouthed governments....and you think we should suck this up do you?
If we did that you would be equally scathing about us not having the gonads to stand up to these unelected undemocratic bullies.

Your gloating is a very unattractive trait...don't bother to bring anything...in fact don't even bother to bring yourself...we do not need more snakes here....we have enough of our own traitorous reptiles

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The only idiot i can see is someone who beggered off to the U.S.A.:rolleyes: Do me a favour STOP YON.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy burningman says he has booked a trip 'home'....to a place he despises.
He has insulted those of us who had a vote, used it to make a difference to life here.
He didn't think much of life here and left. Therefore he has no say...no vote.

He has called us 'xenophobic village idiots'....now my dad used to tell me that anyone who resorted to insults had a very weak argument...and needed to up their game.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

He can call us what he wishes, i know a plank when i see one.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Sorry .. I don't mean to sound like I am gloating, it was rudeness born from frustration. I just see the iceberg that the UK seems intent on hitting and noone is at the wheel. I certainly don't despise home, I am just saddened to see it going this way. I think we are the most inventive and warm hearted peoples in the world and I hope that there are better times ahead?
My family have strong Scots roots and my kids asked a few years ago if I supported the independence vote? I told them I did not because I see a world with fewer borders, not more. Since the invention of jet travel, and more so with planet wide social connectivity, the world is getting stirred up and the black and white is becoming brown. I am not saying this is good or bad.. it just is. This will be further accelerated as we face global problems of climate and sustainability and have to work on borderless solutions with a sapien hive mentality or be crushed under our own weight.
So what to do? Isolate, pull up the drawbridge and disconnect from a changing world or help to influence its direction? This 20 mile strip of salty water has been our saviour for centuries but the island mentality will cost dear as you lose markets as the mighty block of Europe negotiates us into oblivion. The avenues for export will dwindle and massive markets of Asia and the US will also be out of reach because we will have to try and cobble together deals where we can only to be blocked by tariffs and a weak currency to trade with.

I hope i'm wrong.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Burningman...no one knows what is in the future for us....those who are making doom laden prognostications are no wiser than we are.
The motive of the EU is closer political and fiscal alliance...and you have seen what this has done to the economies of Spain, Italy and Greece.
Italy's elected government brought in a budget that the EU has quashed....with the possibility of fiscal penalties if they do not re-do the whole thing.
Please tell me how an unelected cabal can be allowed to do this?
Does it not set alarm bells ringing in your head?
Doesn't it smack of a dictatorship?

I have spent my whole life in this country and it is precious to me.
When we last had a vote about the EEC....I voted not to stay in as I felt that this organisation would morph into a political entity....and it has.
The British people were sold the EEC as a trading partnership....and as such it was beneficial.
As a political entity it is not what we joined....and successive governments have signed treaties(signed away our rights) without us EVER being consulted.
How can that be right.

In the time we have been in the EU.....paying in gooodness knows how many billions, a vote has never gone our way.
The EU has not had a budget signed off by auditors in over two decades.
If this was a business you would not use it.

Our porous borders have allowed people to come into our country who should not be here....they are taking homes, some are taking jobs, some are taking benefits(when they have paid nothing in to the pot).
They have let people in...people we have given sanctuary to from their own war torn lands...and then they have gone on to undertake acts of terrorism, murdering young girls enjoying a music concert....they have used vehicles to mow down innocent pedestrians.

Now, you may see this as me being xenophobic, it is not. I am telling you facts.
During my working life I worked alongside all races and creeds, gave compassion and care to women of all races creeds and religions.

I feel like a stranger in my own country....and I am really quite glad that I am at the bum end of a long and productive life.
I do not want to be part of an organisation which treats us with bullying, insults and then in the next breath tell us that we are valued.
If the EU really valued the UK and what it has to offer, then it would have tried harder to keep us as a member.

I am sorry for such a long post, but felt you needed to know my perspective. If you still think I am a xenophobic village idiot then you have learned nothing about me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh yes...you make the observation that Black and white are becoming brown.
Perhaps you should look up the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan....this is an aim.
To make all people homogenised.....no nationality, no patriotism, no allegiance to colour or country.
No resistance to the elite governing them....the EU was just one piece in the jigsaw of the Coudenhove-Kalergi plan....you will not hear it mentioned because this plan has to be accomplished by stealth so that there can be no outcry, no resistance to it.
As I say....glad I am at the bum end of my life.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

People who use the phrase " Xenophobic Village Idiots" to people they do not know and have never met, well that says everything about the kind of person they are in my eyes. that was not gloating at all it was stupidly telling folk the kind of person they are, and for me you can shove your artificial apology.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Fair enough. I don't doubt your motives or sincerity Margret. I just can't see a good path for this going forwards?

I am an ultra globalist and see sovereignty as a hobble to our progress as a species, an antique idea we need to leave behind and unite as humans to face crushing and urgent problems or perish on a dying planet in black vacuum.

As a young guy I worked for Greenpeace and had been around the world a couple of times before I was 21. I have never felt "away" from anywhere, always " at home" with myself. Maybe this is why it was easy for me to leave?

I hope this works out, I really do.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

At the end of the day, it really does not matter much to you....you will visit and leave these shores to view the proceedings from your safe place

We ALL hope it works out.
Sometimes the path is not visible...we just have to put one foot in front of the other....if we stumble...we get up.
We have to trust that it will work out....whatever happens we have to make a fist of it and get on with it.
If we can get through two world wars and rebuild, then we have to believe we can do this too.

No one ever said it would be easy....I did not believe for a nano second that it would be easy....and I knew that it would come at a cost.
But do we only do in life the things that are easy...where success is assured?
No of course we don't.
There are too many people on the 'inside' of the UK who will be happy to talk the Country down....that bad mouth us.
Mark Carney...a Canadian and governor of the Bank of England has been consistent in providing doom laden projections of the economy...he is doing it right now.
What do you think that does to financial markets.
The best of it is....he hasn't got it right once yet....so I guess the law of averages is on his side.
Even a blind pig sometimes finds an apple.

The EU is happy with the divisions created....divide and conquer...a divided nation is far easier to control and subdue.
Even in the Tory party, there are people who let the EU know the battle plan.
If, right at the very start, all of these fractious MP's had supported the PM....maybe, just maybe a United front would have ensured a better deal...but I do not think so.
There has been NO negotiation....the only leeway and compromise given has been from the UK side.
The EU want the UK to fail....because it will stop other countries having the guts to leave this undemocratic organisation.

I have also travelled the world....I have not stayed in this sleepy backwater....Sydney, Melbourne, Hong Kong have all been on my itinerary....so while I still live here....I have been to other places

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=cashman;1219965]People who use the phrase " Xenophobic Village Idiots" to people they do not know and have never met, well that says everything about the kind of person they are in my eyes. that was not gloating at all it was stupidly telling folk the kind of person they are,

the thing is he lives in the land of the free but there are many of the remainers hold a similar view on those who wanted out in the proper sense of the word.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

There's the rub, Burningman.
The EU is not 'globalist', it is a protectionist, undemocratic organisation.
It closes it's borders to goods and products from most of the rest of the world, which would help raise the economic prospects of many developing countries, in order to maintain inefficient French farms and German industries.
The EU is far, far from the state of global hippy nirvana you seem to attribute to it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I might have made that comment had I really understood what an 'ultra globalist' was.
I find these modern labels quite off putting....only parcels and medical specimens should be labelled.
But I like the cut of you jib Exile....very well said.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Ultra Globalist is all modern bullshine. the fact he says he worked for Greenpeace also says quite a lot. cos most of them are complete knob heads with a few bob in their pockets.:rolleyes: Who also think they are better than mere mortals.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy, while I had those thoughts, I did not post them....but I see where you are coming from.
I was being diplomatic....but I know that you are very direct in your approach.
You always know where you stand with you Cashy:D.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

To be fair to our Californian exile, I think he's just reacting to the misinformation, or no information, that many in North America have received about the EU.
On a recent trip amongst them we were repeatedly quizzed about the EU, with many suggesting, like Burningman, that we British must be mad to vote to leave.
However, I eventually asked them that, before answering their questions, could they tell me what they thought the EU was. Almost without exception, all the Yanks and Canadians replied "a free trade organisation".
And there was the problem.
If only it had stayed as a free trade organisation, I doubted if the UK would ever have voted to leave.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well i certainly would not have if that had been the case. We voted way back to join the Common Market but it became literally a dictatorship, if the yanks knew what they were talking about i doubt very much if they would think that way.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is my issue too.
It is very easy to jump to conclusions about what is good for US when you don't actually live here and see the effects first hand.
It is very easy to view the situation through the monocle of the media....not realising that they are all manipulated by a remainer...or less frequently media that supports what the electorate was asking for.
It is interesting to note that the Daily Mail was fiercely in favour of Brexit....but a recent change of editor(from Paul Dacre to Geordie Grieg....a pro EU editor) has seen this publications stance on leave do an 'about face'.
So it is easy to see why there is confusion abroad.

Even when it was a trading arrangement, it left a lot to be desired.
The Brits follow rules slavishly, the Germans bend the rules to fit their needs and the French ignore totally the rules that they do not like/agree with....so it was never a fair and level playing field.

We are an island race....our borders are the waters this island sits in....so while burningman wants to see a world without borders it is not really going to happen.
There will always be borders of some description...and politicians epitomise this....they think they are the elite, rather than there to serve their electorate and none more so than our own representative.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And that, as I've previously mentioned is the mentality we're up against time & time again. Our Colonial cousins lack the insight or knowledge of what is happening in the next state let alone half a world away.


While we British are literally "Little Islanders" due to our geographic location, pretty much most Americans (that tends to include those who've settled in & adopted their host nations attitudes) are practically "Desert Islanders" in their myopic insular "World" view.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Its a case of know it all, but know nowt simple as,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1220003]
The Brits follow rules slavishly, the Germans bend the rules to fit their needs and the French ignore totally the rules that they do not like/agree with....so it was never a fair and level playing field.


thats where the problem has always been and the reason why so many wanted out. we dot every I and cross every T in any legislation whilst our friends across the channel look at things as if they were a suggestion and not a law.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1220018] Yer not kidding, when we lived and worked in Spain, i used to love calling in the bank, i always went to the chap who spoke good english,cos it was easier, first thing he used to do was get his fags out and me and him would then discuss whatever i had gone in for, whist smoking a Fortuna.:D there was very little if any regard for e.u. rules pmsl.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The vote has gone against the Government for whether or not the Brexit legal advice should be published in full. Cant remember where I read it but one opinion was that it may say that we will be tied in a customs union to EU for evermore. The Government is "responding" on Wednesday.
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Hotel California.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave!
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Exactly.
Geoffrey Cox the Attorney General has publicly said this deal(which will not get through the parliamentary system) is a trap formulated by those snakes(those are my words, not his) in the EU to keep us trapped in a customs union, because the Northern Ireland problem will not be solved to,the satisfaction of both the UK and the EU and without this solution they will never give us permission to exit.

Now does this not strike you as being a dictatorship....yet there are those in this country, who wish to remain in this traitorous organisation.

I lay much of the blame at the feet of spineless politicians who let those in the EU be aware of the division in the country. Those who let those in Brussels know of the battle plans....made them know of the weaknesses.
I also think that there has been nothing in the way of negotiation because the EU KNEW that the country was divided on the result of a referendum....and need not do much to negotiate....it hoped that the result could be brought into disrepute and reversed.
Many very rich people have done much to undermine the will of the electorate.
George Soros springs to mind.

I despair of the future for our children.
Democracy is just an illusion

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So now....once the information is published, parliament will be allowed to determine what deal is accepted....the no deal (the one that was said by the PM to be better than a raw deal) looks like it is dead in the water.
The deal that has been extracted from those in Brussels is only beneficial to them....not to the Uk....and the smiles on the faces of Donald Tusk, Michel Barnier and JCJuncker should tell you all you need to know.
We have been well and truly stitched up.

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When I voted to leave the EU, MY vote was that we did not remain part of the European Court of Justice.
My vote was that free movement was no longer available.
My vote was to cease to be a part of the Customs Union. That we ceased to be a part of the Single Market.
In short, I voted to have no part in the Federalisation of Europe. I wanted(for future generations) to be free of the ties and costs that this corrupt organisation extracts.
I did NOT vote for the half assed affair that the inept politicians in all parties have made it.

I fear that my vote was wasted, trashed, taken for granted.
If the UK signs up to this deal then we have been conquered without a shot being fired.
We will be forever in the clutches of the dictatorship that the EEC has morphed into.

And, you can be sure that these snakes will make us pay for our audacity.

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[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1220204
We will be forever in the clutches of the dictatorship that the EEC has morphed into.

And, you can be sure that these snakes will make us pay for our audacity.[/QUOTE]

plus a big warning to any other country who wants to get out. you can but you,ll pay for it big time if you try to. the EU dictatorship which for some reason is loves by so many. just do not get it.

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Well now the legal advice has been published it reveals that we could be stuck in the backstop forever with no chance of exit....and before anyone points out the salient word is COULD....it is highly likely that this would happen, and is what put the grins on the faces of the three stooges in Brussels.
Get us OUT....RIGHT OUT !

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Its pretty obvious to all but the totally STUPID that is the case.

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How can this information be 'against the public interest'...don't our government feel that we have a right to know that we could be handcuffed to the EU forever(though that was how I saw this deal)?

Now those who voted remain....what do they feel about this EU jiggery pokery?
Or do they see it as all's fair in love and EU negotiation?

I think our PM does not have a snowflake in Hells chance of getting this through Parliament.

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we were lied to before we voted, we have been lied to during this all and will be lied to some more.
We were screwed before we voted, we have been screwed since and will be screwed whatever happens.

Heck, we live in the north west.
We are screwed.
I am taking extra fish oil pills so I can be really supple, also practicing some yoga so I can bend over and kiss my own arse goodbye once it finally happens. :)

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How do you know when a politician is lying?
His/her mouth is moving.

I am beginning to doubt that it will ever happen....and it certainly will not happen how we were told it would....you know that soundbite 'No deal is better than a bad deal'
This is as bad a deal as cowardly D.Cameron came back with....but we are being asked to swallow it as it is the best we are likely to get.

No wonder they are grinning like loons on acid in Brussels.

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All the shiphouses are telling us now that we are better stopping in the E.U. so what that means is yer vote was not worth sod all. we know better than you thick oiks.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We only got a referendum because the political class believe the polls (because they can’t find time to talk to ordinary people), which all ‘guaranteed’ that Remoan would win. They were wrong.
May called an election because the same polls told her she was bound to increase her majority. They were wrong.
Now the pollsters, who interview a few hundred people who have nothing better to do than stand in the rain answering leading questions, tell us a second referendum would again result in Remoan.
Personally I find the only people who mouth off in public about the issue tend to be Remoaners, but i’ve yet to find anyone who voted Leave who has changed their mind.
So it’s now all these sore political losers who suddenly, against all their previously expressed principles, want a referendum.
But, if they get one (and that’s a big if) they may find that polls are, yet again, wrong.
I’d vote tomorrow for no deal if it meant we got out of the clutches of the EU.

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Me too.
I am sick of reading Survation polls of less than 2000 respondents being touted as what the general population thinks....the best of it is that some people will not look at the numbers of those asked and will take it as the truth.

I know of no one who voted to leave that has changed their stance, however I DO know some who voted to remain, who now think that they would change their vote to leave.

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I have two friends who have changed their mind and would vote leave if there was a second referendum, reason being, they are sick and fed up of all the bully boy tactics of the Eurocrats. But if there was a second referendum and people didn't like the result could there be a third, If I I didn't like the result of a general election could I ask for another election? I'm getting a bit sick of all the messing about. We voted OUT why are we till arguing.

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Simple Russell, because we have a snakepit of spineless, gutless people in the Palace of Westminster, on both sides of the house.
Our politicians have not been united in their approach to the major issues that provoked the referendum.
They have THOUGHT that they knew better than us, they have acted in patrician ways....believing that we have not the brains to bless ourselves with.

It is in THEIR interests to remain in this undemocratic organisation....if Brussels do the lawmaking, hand down the rules, then there is less work for them to do....and they will ALWAYS have someone else they can blame.

If we sign up to this deal then all the young men who went out to fight for the freedoms we enjoy, died for nothing.....we will be conquered without a shot having been fired.

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The French dont like their Government so they demonstrate big time,in the capital, our lot do sod all apart from bitch on social media.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

best of five

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have something I would like to share with the group. I have read a great deal about Brexit, written by people of various levels of skill and knowledge, and some with an obvious axe to grind. I recently read an article written by John O'Sullivan and published in The National Review.
I found it to be one of the more clear eyed explanations of the games being played by the friends in parliament. Thought you might appreciate some analysis from outside of Britain looking in?

Here is the link to the article and I hope you find it enlightening?


https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ermine-brexit/


Sincerely,
Joe

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Thank you for that link.
It underlines what many on here have been saying from the outset...and it is no surprise to those of us who want to leave lock, stock and barrel.The dealings should only ever have been done by the people who were proven to be in favour of leaving.

Those who were remainers were never going to deliver the deal that the electorate voted for.
There are those who say that the electorate didn't vote for a deal....it just voted to leave.
That might be true, but most of us knew that the EU would NEVER give us a fair deal.
TM told us that she would rather accept No deal than a bad deal.
Now there has been an about face....and the EU have us by the goolies.
We are being told that while this deal is not perfect, it is the best we will get.
THAT JUST IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
We are told that we must expect to compromise.
WE HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT COMPROMISE.
The EU have NOT negotiated....they have bullied, insulted and railroaded.

I am ashamed of the lack of courage shown by those who were elected to rule us....but not surprised.
They have their own agenda's....and they do not include what is good for the will of the people.
The media try to brainwash us by giving us results of bogus polls...trying to make us believe that the people have changed their minds on leaving.
I do not buy it....and they are not fooling me.
I despair of ever getting out of the clutches of the EU.

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This meaningful vote makes me laugh, its only meaningful for the ******* that want to remain,

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Why vote if it changes nothing?
Letting the electorate vote thinking that ithas the power to influence how things are done is a big con....and really, when you think about it our system is no better than that of the EU.
(Well, other than they want us to think it is democratic rather than bureaucratic)

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The two things that most disturbed me in O'Sullivan's article were that TM was pressing Britain into the role of a Vassal State (the last crew to attempt that were the Nazis) and secondly that the BBC were complicit in support of TM. I had always counted on Auntie Beeb to provide News rather than editorial?

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The BBC have never too be trusted in my view joe.;)

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Perhaps unlike the French, we know we can't win if we take to the streets if we end up protesting the first thing the government will do is set the troops on us, death and mayhem for the masses.
Wheras the French have a tradition of revolution and their government would prefer a protest to be a bit like mardigra with death as a side line.

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There is far more widespread action in France than what the mainstream media shows/tells us about. I even managed to spot a few placards showing "FREXIT". Even small towns are in the protests and I understand there are discussions next week with a number of French Unions, including Public Service ones.