Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This is all smoke and mirrors stuff.
The government are doing a bit of their own project fear. This is in order to get the crappy deal we have been offered,rubber stamped by MP's and accepted as an acceptable deal by the electorate.

They are trying to tell us that the Dover route for freight will be adversely affected by a No deal scenario...that there will be severe shortages.
This is bull dust.
Very little freight and goods arrives in this country via Dover.
Most of the goods we rely on come via other ports and they are capable of dealing with a no deal scenario.
How do I know this....a cousin of mine is a customs officer at Felixstowe....he tells me not to listen to the stuff we are being fed by the government and the media....as it is not true.

Now I am not saying that things will be trouble free, but it is not the picture that the government are painting.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

the longer i keep reading stuff like this it really does make me wonder how we all actually survived never mind lived before the common market and the EU. well i would not have the pick of 100,s of wines and had my life enriched by all the experiances i,ve had over the years. yes EU thanks a bunch.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Of course you would have had the wines and the experiences. They might have been different wines, different experiences.

You have to remember that way back when the EU was formulated, the world was coming out of a long and bloody conflict.
(The EU was seen as being the solution to future peace. It was also sold to us as a trading organisation....but then that was the plan....draw the suckers in, let them believe this is for economic purposes....but the plan was always to ensure political union at a later date....rule by oligarchy, not democracy)
There was not the disposable income back then, people had simple expectations that matched the finances they had.
But to think that unless we belong to an undemocratic(and it is undemocratic for a reason....and if you have read the Frederick Forsyth piece you will know what that reason is.
If you haven't read it then I would recommend it to you. It will clarify many things)organisation that takes the sovereignty of its members and trashes them, then I am sorry to say I think you are misguided.
Do you think that Spain, France, Greece, Portugal will want to turn away tourists who wish to spend their money in those countries, will turn these visitors away?

Some of these countries economies rely on visitors.
Do you think that Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece will refuse to sell their wine to us....?and if by chance they did there are the New World wines which I am led to believe are more than a match for some European wines.

For me, if it meant that I could never again drink a drop of wine produced in an EU country, or set foot on their soil....it would not cause me a moment's distress.

I want to be out...right out, not this Hokey-Cokey half in half out thing that is proposed.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Not sure it would have been that different, the Chinese, Tai, Indian take-aways didn't come from the EU. Nor did the Caliifornian and many other wines. In fact on the food and drink side I cannot think of much that has arrived as a result of EU membership. Greek food was here before they joined, Pizza's from American franchises.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We have sleep walked into a situation that is hand cuffing us to servitude to a foreign nation,that does not have the interests of the UK or its people at its core.
We are an island nation with a proud heritage.
That is not to say that we do not welcome others, but we do not welcome being taken over.
I do not want to be a serf to The EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As it's still the season to be jolly, let's not forget that our Christmas lights and tinsel didn't come from the E.U. we all bought Chinese, in fact most of the glitsy useless break at the first attempt to install batteries gifts will have originated from there.
Joy of joys, in or out of the E.U. we will still be able to buy the same stuff next year, the Chinese will make sure of that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

From the start of Brexit the majority of people wanted to leave but most MP’s wanted to remain, Mrs may forced the few leave MPs in her cabinet to resign then comes out with Brexit means Brexit,
then accepts the EU’s deal that most MP’s could not accept then proceeds to use stalling tactics to run down the clock trying to force MP’s to vote for a deal they dislike

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I cannot see this deal getting through(she says with fingers and toes crossed).
This is NOT a deal....unless you count it as a raw deal....but then there was no way any UK politician from whatever persuasion was going to get a deal from the EU.
They want to give the Brits a bloody nose for being so audacious in leaving.
Our politicians badly misjudged the thoughts of the electorate.
Since the EU(not the EEC) came into being, we have not been asked how we felt about becoming a Federal State of Europe....with power for decisions being made in Brussels.

We should have been given a say before John Major signed the Maastricht treaty....but the politicians did not bother to ask us.
We are the victims of a huge deception.
It is time the people woke up and realised what was being done in their name...and seemingly with their permission.

Another thing is that there is a lot of brinkmanship being played out.
This is a dangerous game for both sides.

The MP,s who want to remain have their own agenda....and it is NOT the good of the country...it is the good of their own hides.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

So the Sourbint wants the plod to get involved because people shes betrayed have been calling her nasty names! Welcome to our world, for the last near on 2 & a half years, those who wanted to leave the eu-rinal have been getting slated & abused on a daily basis, but that was fine because it's only "Dumb, stupid, racist Brexiteers" after all!


All I can say is, "Suck it up Sourbint! You & your cohorts have brought this down on your own heads because of your mealy mouthed assumptions & attitudes".

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This latest bit of media frenzy smacks of more fakery.
The metro me-jah tell us the abuser was a right-wing extremist (i.e. a leave voter). So why would a right-wing extremist call someone he hates a Nazi?
I wonder how much it costs to hire some daft git, who has nothing better to do all day than hang around Parliament in January, to shout at you when the BBC cameras are rolling?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Not sure of the cost Exile, but this fine chap seems to have a rather broad portfolio. After reading the article it appears the poor lad is somewhat confused by it all.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...supporter.html

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As alleged, Dave, a “daft git”. He’ll have his own telly show next week, no doubt.

BTW, it seems our humble and honourable representatives have agreed to debate the recent petitions about leaving the EU without any stitched up deal.

But they’ve also decided to debate petitions about scrapping Brexit and having a second (actually third) referendum.

Interestingly, at the last count, the latter petitions amassed 133,632 and 131,371 signatures respectively.

However, even combined (265,083) that is less than the “stuff the EU, just get out” petitions, which amassed 390,085.:)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Leaving without a deal is not on their agenda...Dominic Grieve proved that.
I feel sure that they do not want to accept that they got the mood of the electorate so wrong.
They are a set of spineless, gutless, lilly livered scaredy cats....I would like to put something fare more scathing, but do not wish to risk a ban

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Which in itself highlights the divide in the populace of for & against, but I'm pretty sure the polsters,"profi" commenters & msm certainly won't be chucking these figures around for public perusal ....... strange that eh?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Unfortunately, no longer strange at all.
We’ve fooled ourselves for too long that we have an independent media but it’s self-regarding, metropolitan mind-think is part of the problem.
The last few years has, if nothing else, revealed just how biased our me-jah is, with the BBC being one of the most egregious.
Even the editor of the Daily Mail had to be replaced with a Remoaner.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

These moronic MP's who are tying TM into some kind of deal....even a bad deal cannot see that they are removing any leverage to getting concessions from the EU.
The further the 'no deal' scenario recedes, the more the EU will like it.
They do not want a No deal.
It will create many serious financial issues for them.
Not least the possibility that the 39 billion divorce settlement maybe withheld.
There is going to be a huge black hole in their budgets if there is a no deal.

The MP's are creating a huge constitutional crisis.....which is totally unnecessary.
The majority of those who voted in the referendum voted to leave....LEAVE means LEAVE...not the half assed deal that is currently on the table...nor the Norway style deal that would leave us paying in without any influence over decisions made that will affect our lives.
There should be no taxation(the subs to the EU are taxation) without representation.
Can these dumb people not see this?
These educated folk who have had private schooling and university education seem to be absolutely bereft of any common sense or insight into the consequences of their stupidity.

I despair that we will ever break free....we are going to be a permanent feudal state of Europe....our representative want to sell us into serfdom.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Just watched the news tonight the Brexit bullshine is unreal. They were on about J.L.R.losing jobs interviewing some chosen workers blaming Brexit, They have taken 4000 on at some place in china since 2014, or had we voted leave then?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: The reason Jag/Land Rover is doing badly is cos people stopped buying Diesel vehicles, yeh would have to be a complete idiot to think otherwise, but the Media can find em

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

God loves an idiot....that's why there are so many.
And it is not in the interests of the media to question these ludicrous claims that are currently being bandied about.

I am sure that the majority of us who voted to leave, knew that it would not be without some difficulties, but the people who are supposed to represent us are making heavy weather of it....and this is because we(in their opinion) voted for the wrong option....they don't like it and want to stymy the wishes of those they are supposed to serve.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

in a nutshell democracy is fine as long as you agree with them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Whenever communicating with a politician or civil servant one should always remember to sign the communication correctly namely:-


You are Sir/Madam MY humble servant
Your Name (Tax Payer)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

As usual you are quite right, we voted leave because we actually meant, let's carry on paying in to a system that is as useless as a wet fart!
However all the winkers we have fighting for us to leave really want us to stay, so what chance has the democratic MAJORITY got of a fair deal?
The best we can hope for is that the main rulers of the EU will forgive us for our little tantrum and not penalise us too much.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

What a bloody(sorry for the profanity, but it maddens me so much that those who are supposed to represent us are doing such a crap job) vain hope that is Less.

The EU would punish us from here to next Christmas for our audacity in wanting to leave....they hate us for doing what no one else has ever done

Jeremy Hunt is now saying that there is a chance that there will be NO Brexit.
How can that be?
My understanding is that the triggering of Article 50 means we leave on March 29 th and if a deal is not done, then we leave on WTO rules.
The laws that govern the leaving were ratified a year ago.

So is this another politician spewing out rubbish to induce fear and panic in the electorate?

Our MP's are a shower of Fisons.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I agree Margaret but think MAY is a remainer at heart and has fed us nowt but crap.:mad: ok we know its been hard, but think she NEVER really wanted us out whatever.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Let's be honest, WAAAAY back in the past the main Countries that made up the Common Market didn't want us to join, reluctantly we were allowed.
Now, as members of Europe for the masses, (some members shouldn't be allowed in the Eurovision song contest, never mind a financial Europe), we are being forced to stay by the same folk that originally said 'NON', but only so they can keep milking us of hard earned money.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes...they do not want US...but they do NEED our money.
They are NOT our friends, they are NOT allies...everything they have done during the so called negotiations prove this conclusively.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The motive of the EU has been to create a Federal States of Europe without the people being aware of what was happening.....political, fiscal, and military harmonisation was always the plan.

The elite stress the economic benefits of the organisation (this one has not passed an audit in more than two decades)because they know that this is the worm that will hide the hook.
And if an organisation is doing something, but do not want the people to know what is being done, then the motives have to be suspected as sinister

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The motive should read without the STUPID being aware.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The thing is Cashy, much has been done to hide the motives.
It was always the plan that the nations in the EU would be ruled by deception....until they were in too deep to get out.
When one nation imposes its will on another, this constitutes a dictatorship.
Democracy has to be dismantled in order for the aims of the EU to succeed....they do not want the people to have any say in how they are governed....but they will maintain an illusion of democracy....but that is all it is....an illusion.

The Italians elected a government and the government formulated a budget.
This budget was unacceptable to the mandarins in Brussels....so the
Italian government were told to 'think again'.
How can this be right?
The answer is...it can't!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well, the latest on Brexit, if you believe the media hype, is that we won't leave the EU if May's Brexit deal is rejected. Surely that would go against the democratic referendum which we had to leave the EU?

From what I've read it's unlikely the TM's deal will get through Parliament, to be honest it;s all a bit of a shambles....

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Ryewolf, I think that must be the understatement of the century.

The crew in Brussels must be laughing their socks off.
The MP's are a traitorous bunch who have their own interests at heart. They care nothing for the country....they want us all to be serfs of an undemocratic, money hungry system run by the elite(who have THEIR own agenda...and it is sinister).
I despair because I cannot see this ending well....I can see riots and fighting because the electorate has been betrayed.
Democracy is dead and buried and our MP's are responsible.
Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think Guy Fawkes had it wrong, he lost his life trying to destroy summat that NEVER existed.?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It might have existed back then Cashy...but it certainly does not exist now.

They want really shaking up.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Doubt that very much Margaret we were only looked on as useless serfs back then? nothing has changed i reckon.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes, Cashy...the serfs could not vote...it was the parliamentary elite who made the rules.
And Guy Fawkes was a 'would be' assassin(back then the King made the rules)....and he got caught....so obviously not very good at it.
However, history aside....we do need somebody to put a (literal) bomb under those who are SUPPOSED to represent the electorate.

Right now they are making a right dogs breakfast of things.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1222747]those who are SUPPOSED to represent the electorate.


that is the whole point that they do not get. to represent US not the other way round. their sodding arrogance is beyond me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

may is like most of the others they wanted to remain. they told us we cannot leave without a deal and now the deal on offer will be voted out. if thats the case then hunt will be right. i,m not trying to be wise after the event but i always said i just could never see brexit happening. too many weasels about.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is not just arrogant, but it is undemocratic....which I guess is why they see nothing wrong in the way the EU conducts its affairs....also, why should we PAY these men and women when they are not doing the law making or governing.
It is a fine job to be paid for spouting hot air in a parliament that is only a talking shop...that is not doing the work that these representatives are elected to do.
They are the winners and we are the mugs.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I just hope Farage comes back into political life after this so called vote, in some way.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Perhaps he will?

Or

Perhaps he'll prove himself to be the only honourable one amongst the whole sorry bunch?

He resigned saying his job was done, that he had no other political ambitions, what a shame if the democratic vote he worked so hard for fails and he is forced to start all over again?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I'm not upset that she lied to us, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe her.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It isn't just her...all politicians lie. It is a pre-requisite when they apply for the job.
They are asked ' can you look people in the eye and blatantly lie to them'?
They have to be able to answer 'yes' to this question....if they can't....then they don't get the job....there are NO honest MP's anymore.

You can tell when they are lying...their mouths move.

The best of it is we keep,getting sucked in by them....how gullible does that make us?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1222786]
They are asked ' can you look people in the eye and blatantly lie to them'?
They have to be able to answer 'yes' to this question....i

the problem is with them is that they cannot just answer yes or know to any question asked to them. if you asked em is accrington in lancashire they,d spend ten minutes waffling on and still not give you the answer. they certainly can talk but its the actions that we want.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is right, but you know they are doing it...it is stock in trade of being in politics.
Aren't we fools to believe they have our interests at heart?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

So Dismays diabolical "Deal" has been kicked into touch, it was a forgone anyway & right now Corpybin's tabling a motion of no confidence ......!

Big discussion tomorrow in the commons & the carnival rolls on!

Looks like May is on her way out one way or another after all.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Not a chance Dave imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Wouldn't be to sure Cashy, If the vote of no confidence is passed, the tories will be fighting like cats in a sack. Trying to limit the damage to the party & their pockets, they'll be shovelling the deadwood out the window (May included) as fast as possible.


Added to that, May herself should now realise her position is untenable, x votes in x days & she's been hammered on them all! She really needs to jump before she's pushed, do the decent thing & resign. (She really hasn't got any other option).

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Did you see that the Chinese got a sprig of green life to grow in the vacuum of the dark side of the Moon?... Amazing!
Certainly looks like it has more chance of surviving than PM May? Isn't science wonderful!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-46873526

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It's quite a big defeat too with a majority of 230, MPs voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

TM wants to know what we want.
I hope she is listening...but I doubt it.
We want a clean break from the undemocratic EU.
We do not want a customs union....or a single market.
We do not want freedom of movement.
We do not want closer political allegiance.
We do not want to be part of the Federal states of Europe.
We do not want the ECJ to have a say in our legal system.
We do not want to be a vassal state...with our laws handed to us from Brussels.
We do not want a Norway deal.
We do not want a backstop that ties us into the EU forever.
We want to LEAVE....that is L.E.A.V.E....this was what 17.4 million of us voted to do.
We did not vote to be jacked around by those who are supposed to be negotiating.
We do not want to be betrayed by traitorous elected MP's whose manifesto was to deliver the exit from the EU.
We did not vote to be belittled and insulted by those in Brussels.
We did not vote for a half in half out, keep on paying with no say over what legislation is passed....so I hope that makes it clear to you Mrs May.
Oh...and if there is no deal, then we get to keep the £39 billion.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And they still can't decide what to do, No Deal Exit, Brexit Delay or another referendum.... one of the MP's said this negotiation as been a shambles on a epic proportion....

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

He was not wrong.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

NO DEAL is the only way to go

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Donald Tusk has dared to suggest that as the deal being offered is unacceptable....and a NO DEAL is also unacceptable (to whom), Brexit should be cancelled.
That would suit the EU right down to the ground.
They could then stop worrying about how to fill the Financial black hole that our leaving would provoke.

If they had really wanted us to stay, then they would have done more to try and make it worthwhile.

All that said, I want to be out....right out.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Sorry Margaret, I can’t see the pro-Europe House of Commons allowing us to leave without a deal, my guess is a second referendum or withdraw article 50 on the 28th of March

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

are you really surprised. as the 432 votes against iclude all the remainers and those who wanted a proper leave and not this botched up deal that appeals to none.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It should NOT be about what the House of Commons want, nor the House of Lords.
Those people are in their positions(paid very well) because they are supposed to SERVE the electorate.
They are our representative. Not there to foist their wishes on us...that is not how it works.

They are bound to be pro Europe...it means that they have less work to do....being handed rules and regs from another country? That does not sound like sovereignty to me.
I truly cannot see a second referendum. This would be a knife to the heart of democracy....and suppose that referendum created more problems....maybe from those of us who sincerely want to be rid of the EU....would that then necessitate a third...or would it be best of five?
How is it democracy if it can be overturned by a small number of politicians who want to be considered for tickets on the gravy train?

If there is a second referendum then it should only be about the terms of leaving....not about staying...that question was settled back in 2016.



The EU would be delighted if they finally managed to trounce democratic freedoms in this country...as they have done in Greece and Italy.
The UK has been a thorn in the side of the EU for a long time....long may we be so.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Unfortunately foisting their wishes IS how it works, though it shouldn't be.

I would rather stop being a thorn in their side and become independent of the whole corrupt bunch of 'Paper Roses', once we are out, it is they, not us that will continue to struggle.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Less, you are right.

There is no reason why we can't leave and still be a thorn in their side.
We would be a thorn in their side if we left and prospered...because they want us to fail....and fail epically.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

So all the Remoaners are now putting their hopes on another EU referendum and they tell us we need one because (second time around) we stupid, old, racists didn't know what Leave meant. Now, apparently we all do.

We only had a referendum because the political parties couldn't agree on anything about the EU. And the last two years has shown that they still can't. It seems Parliament can only offer a so-called 'no deal' [i.e. clean break] or staying in.

So, if there was to be another referendum, my view is that it should ask exactly the same question as before - do you want to leave or remain in the EU? No political chicanery with smart-arse options, splitting one side two or three ways. We now all know everything there is to know, so why ask a different question?

However, if the Remoaning MPs in both the Labour and Tory parties think a different but equally narrow result will end their agony, they must be more naïve than they seem.

Think about this analysis:
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majo...eu-referendum/

This is why Komrade Korbyn, especially, and Theresa Maybe are desperate to avoid having another referendum before a general election.

If there was another referendum first, which narrowly decided to remain, I suspect that not every person who voted leave, and felt betrayed, would continue to give their votes unthinkingly in the next a general election to either Labour or Conservative.

All it would take, as happened in France under Macron in less than one year, would be for a new pro-Brexit party to form in time for a general election. And we all know that for a party to win an election doesn't require 52% of a 72% voter turnout.
Nigel Farage for PM, anyone?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well the confidence vote is done & the tories are still in power (by 19 votes) the vote was 306 against - 325 for. Not a vast margin & certainly doesn't inspire confidence for the future negotiations.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That was bound to happen dave.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And we're still no closer to what happens next than we were 2 years ago... I wouldn't trust them to negotiate their way out of a paper bag....

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

True but would trust Labour even less.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

True Cashy, but still disappointing. DisMay said she's now prepared to talk to & work with other parties, in other words, give up even more ground to those opposed to a clean no deal exit from the eu-rinal.

So eu "negotiations" all over again, but this time instead of kowtowing to the creatures in Brussels, she'll be kotowing to our home grown anti democracy creatures.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Now is the time to put self interest aside & work together she says, the time to do that was 2 years ago Theresa - the statement she just delivered is too little, too late.
The whole thing has been a total shambles from the start & it's not going to get any better any time soon

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is a shambles Manufactured with the aim of thwarting the will of the people.
I have come(reluctantly) to the conclusion that this is how the political elite wanted it to end.
The political elite judged badly what the results of the referendum would be.
They were shocked by that result.
There are people (Goerge Soros springs immediately to mind)committing vast amounts of money to ensure that democracy is dismantled brick by brick.
Democracy is not what the ruling elite want to see survive.
What was played out in Parliament is evidence of this.
That one man (that Pygmy Bercow) can ride rough shod over parliamentary practice is an affront to all of us.
I voted to leave because I never wanted to be in in the first place...when we were last allowed to vote, the vote went against my values....but it was a democratic process and I accepted it.
There are many in this country who wish to be serfs to the EU...they have known nothing else.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

[QUOTE=DaveinGermany;1222913]True Cashy, but still disappointing. DisMay said she's now prepared to talk to & work with other parties, in other words, give up even more ground to those opposed to a clean no deal exit from the eu-rinal.

by the time she has finished we will be out but have the same conditions as if we were still in. even the combined lunacy of the three stooges and the marx brothers could not have come up with anything like we have at present.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Brexit was a golden opportunity to have anew future for the UK but it has been wasted. The deal was not good for the UK and now that it has been rejected, the only way we will get anything further from EU is to make further concessions in their favour. The only alternatives other than that appear to be no deal or revoke article 50, neither of which are acceptable. Wherever we end up we are in a mess. If I had made such a mess of my job, I would have been shown the door
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

addendum to previous- neither of which are acceptable to Parliament to try and move on.
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The only acceptable solution to Parliament is not to leave.
What TM came back from Brussels with was not better than what DC was offered...in fact with the backstop to tie us in until they gave permission to leave...it was worse.
It beggars belief that anyone with any intelligence would put that on the table...let alone try to use strong arm tactics to enforce it passes through the commons.
Brussels are scared of a NO deal and that should be used as leverage.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yeh but the Government sent a leaflet to "ALL" households in 2016 Stating This is a once in a lifetime decision! the Government will implement what you decide, which just proves what SODDING LIARS they are.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This caught my eye and gave me a chuckle.
Private Eye occasionally hits the mark.

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

Joe

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Referring back to an earlier post, the big problem was that 'LEAVE' was not defined.


http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/1171349-post919.html


This sloppyness gives politicians freedom to have personal interpretations as to what it means ... and you can see the result.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes, for course they did...but Cashy you are wily enough to know that what is said by a politician is subject to THEIR interpretation....which is why it was so important for this crap deal to be rubber stamped because it would have been Brexit in name only....we would still be tied to the EU in perpetuity.

Did you not see JCJunckers face when TM accepted the deal?...he was smiling like a croc that had identified lunch for the foreseeable future.
And I am sure that I spotted somewhere that MBarnier said 'we've got them now'....I have tried to find this, but have failed...so maybe this evidence has been removed.

If lowly folk like us can see how ludicrous all this thrutching has been to,get....where are we?
Nowhere.
That is not negotiation.
This is NOT all her fault.
She has had to deal with duplicitous snakes in our Palace of Westminster, in British businesses and then there are those in Brussels....who never wanted to relinquish the financial contributions that we pay into this money pit.

I worry that article 50 will be pushed back....or worse, revoked.
I worry that we will be tied up to a Norway style deal where we will be required to pay in, have no say on any laws passed in Brussels and handed down to us,
At the same time being forced to accept free movement.
I worry that the EU will strong arm us into staying inside the EU against the wishes of 17.4 million voters....and they may even make it a condition of staying that we accept the Euro.

The EU are slimy reptiles and I do not trust anything that they promise.
But then, equally I am becoming ever distrustful of those representatives in our own Houses of Parliament.
Yes, it is true...I am a dyed in the wool cynic.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It didn't really need to be, it said Remain Or Leave, whats to define about that?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That is exactly right....we were bamboozled yet again.
And my last post says exactly that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You and I both know what Leave means.
It means to put on your hat and coat.....and go through the door.
But it may not mean that to others.
I think that as human beings we believe what we want to believe.
I never for one minute dreamed that the electorate would vote to Leave the EU.
I was elated to hear the results....for maybe five minutes.
Then reality kicked in and I realised that there was a long way to go....especially as there was such a long time before article 50 was signed....that rang alarm bells for me.
This long period before the date of leaving gave room for skulduggery to be planned.
The electorate mean nothing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Consider for a moment the definition of the word 'All' in the context of insurance 'All Risks' means all risks except 'Acts of God' and 'whatever other get out clauses they can think up'.

My definition and I'm sure yours is that 'All' means just that 'all' - 'everybody', 'everything'.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Only the STUPID believe what they want to believe, The truth is that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Put another way the unexpected result produced the conundrum:-

We have an answer, now what's the question?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

There are three versions of the truth....there is your truth, my truth and then there is something in between the two....and the 'my' and 'yours' are collective terms and not aimed at you personally Cashy.

Most folk are not stupid, but they do believe what they want to believe....and they may not even realise that they make this discriminination.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Can't accept that Margaret, the truth was remain or leave anyone thinks different is stupid or very devious, its that simple to me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Isn't politics the art of the devious?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It certainly is but it aint just M.P.s etc thats devious.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes...of course that was the question.
The problem arose when we chose the Leave option.
It did not fit with what our politicians expected....so they have worked tirelessly to thwart the will of the people....and the deal offered to TM was just that....it was promoted by the government as the only option....and it was supposed to be leave...but even a blind man can see that it ties us to the EU with the only chance of getting out(is not getting out) is with their permission......and we both know that they are never in a million years going to let us go.....but the government will tell you that they have fulfilled the wishes of the electorate by getting a deal that allows us(on the twelfth of never) to leave.

It is all about interpretation.
On the ballot paper it did not say 'leave with a deal'
It did not say 'leave with no deal'.
We were hoodwinked by the sound bite 'leave means leave' (unless it is the deal offered by the EU)
We were also assured by the PM that No Deal was preferable to a bad deal.....so then you need to define what constitutes a bad deal(this one fits that bill,perfectly)
You see Cashy we had our expectations raised. we did not consider all the dirty tricks that would be pulled by the likes of Dominic Grieve, Keir Starmer, Ken Clarke et al and the project fear that was used to scare the electorate.

Not to mention those who considered the people who voted to leave as brainless idiots, and boring old farts...the same boring old farts that heaved this country out of the brown stuff after the last war (but we aren't supposed to mention that are we) the boring old farts that the young voters wished dead, for us wanting to take back the freedoms that our fathers fought so hard to obtain.
So if that sounds bitter and twisted, it is because it IS.
I feel that we, as a nation, have been betrayed....sold down the river by a few hundred career politicians who care for only their own agendas.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Ken Clarke Blair, and others thought it was a good idea to join the Euro way back, shows how much those tosspots know dont it?:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy, they were not doing stuff relating to the EU with a view to making life better for us...just to further their own agendas.
We all know that hubristic Blair wanted to be a big wheel in the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Heseltine used to be a publisher, I think the company was Haymarket Press.

In the early 1980s he bought farmland, the reason being the EU were paying landowner's to plant trees, He makes over 1 million pounds a year on this venture.
Why do you think he want's to stay in the EU.

I think it's because he like's tree's...I am a thick LEAVE voter, NO DEAL IS BETTER

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

two years of deceit by Theresa May publicly advocating her support for the referendum vote to leave, while all along working to stay in the EU

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thats her job, to con the serfs.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You cannot control someone who does not trust you...so ALL politicians of every persuasion will tell you what THEY think you want to hear....that is the first fundamental element of control...the second is to let you believe they are on YOUR side....the only side they are on is the one that will do them most good.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have just been looking at a Yougov Poll that suggests those who now support Remain have overtaken those who would wish to leave.
How many people were canvassed?.....1070.

Now, would someone out there who matriculated in maths please tell me what percentage of 17.4 million this represents.
I can't work it out but I am not so thick as to not know that this cannot be representative of the electoral vote....and that as such it is meaningless.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Agreed how can you produce a poll with any credibility with such a small sample (1070)
But I can believe that the remainers now outnumber us leavers with all the scare stories portrayed in every source of media, the sheep must be scared to do anything else

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Do you believe any of these scare stories?
Think about what was said about what would happen if we voted to leave?
Did any of this prognostications come close to coming true?
No, they did not.
The governor of the Bank of England has 'talked down' the financial growth of this country....likewise The CBI have talked down the possibilities of success in trade.
Now, if other countries see these dismal predictions...the fact that we do not have confidence in our ability to rise above difficulties...not good is it?
As for believing this poll...it is hogwash...but again, folk will see that(not read all the article...where the small number of participants is buried) and they, like you ....will believe it.

I don't know anyone who would change the way they voted and I have read of a few who voted Remain and because of the antics of those negotiators in Brussels, would now vote leave.

Polly Toynbee observed(rather insensitively) that today was the day when the remainers equalled the leavers...as a number of those who voted leave had died.

That is the measure of remainers
These people have levelled insults at those of us who voted leave....now my feeling is that once you feel the need to resort to insults....you have lost the argument.

This is what has been part of the difficulty in sorting out a deal....there has been pressure from groups who are sour about the result of a democratic vote.
They want to sell their right to democracy and they do not care what the price is.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yeah, and the same polls predicted we’d all vote remain in 2016 and was why Scameron, being a public relations consultant, decided to have the referendum.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You are right....and strangely enough, the margins are exactly the same.
The only count that matters is the number of votes that were cast that required our politicians to,get off their haunches and get to setting out our laws rather than let .Brussels hand them down

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Reading a comments section on a Brexit article earlier, one contributor pointed out that a number of the "big" political figures bumping their gums about a second referendum, Blair, Brown & Major certainly didn't give any credence to such requests prior to signing the UK up to various treaties during their tenure in power.


Funny owd thing that!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

So it seems that the cross party talks have either failed or are failing and that the PMs plan B now appears to be asking the EU to remove the Backstop. I havent heard that the EU are at all prepared to renegotiate so I am not sure where that leaves us , maybe apart from PM running the clock down in the hope that MPs will accept her original deal as opposed to No Deal? I'm a bit lost.

Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Interestingly, if the betting odds are any indicator, a certain bookmaker is offering 2/1 on that there will be no EU referendum this year and 6/4 that we will leave with no deal
Mark

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think it is very unlikely that the EU will ditch the backstop..it would be what kept us chained to this unsavoury bunch....so I think it is looking like a disorderly exit.

That is unless the traitorous backbenchers bring in some sort of amendment(assisted by the iniquitous speaker- John Bercow) to prevent a no deal Brexit(though I think this would have to go through parliamentary process and it would,I hope run out of time).

I was talking with daughter today about the possibility of a GE....we both said what was the point of voting if our votes meant so little...and daughter said she would not vote...I said I would vote.....the last thing this country needs is for Worzel Gummidge to get into number 10.