Re: The Tories
 

Oh well Houseboy, yer certainly improving.:hehetable

Re: The Tories
 

Thanks, just don't get me started on Teresa Gorman and the Wimbeldon ticket touts. Even senior Tories at the time thought that was a step too far.

Re: The Tories
 

I've just gone right off you:D

Re: The Tories
 

What?..UK debt and borrowing has increased by around 12% since 2010..I know you may have to tell some porkies for the Tory MP you work for doing "research" ..but try to retain some kind of dignity eh?..maybe to much to ask for.

Re: The Tories
 

pus more porkies about selling public parks leisure centres will be next

Re: The Tories
 

Oh, come on Jay, it's just my opinion. But you can't seriously believe that the Thatcher years were a bed of roses for most people can you?

• Record unemployment
• VAT raised almost double (8 to 15%) to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy
• De-regulation of the financial services industry (look where that left us)
• Privatisations of the power industry that is now coming home to roost (look at your recent gas & electricity bills)
• Privatisation of water (the worst one of all) giving a (still) total monopoly on a life essential product
• The decimation of an industry (mining) based on revenge for the embarrassment it caused to previous Tory goverments
• See the above for the destruction of communities because of same
• The division of the nation into north and south/rich and poor on a scale not seen since fuedal times (okay, that may be stretching a point but you understand my meaning)

I could go on with the facts and back them up with historical proof but I think you see what I mean. The Thatcher years were a miserable time for most peopple living outside of the South East of England. As for Scotland, one or two senior Tories are even now suggesting that they owe them an apology for that time.
Having said all that I am more than willing to listen to anyone who can tell me any good that came from those years "for the majority of people".

Re: The Tories
 

In my opinion,yeh got more chance of platting snot, than Jaysay admitting he sees what yeh mean.:D

Re: The Tories
 

Ya can't call the blessed Margaret to me, but for her we would now live in a banana republic after Silly Billy and Sonny Jim's escapades in the 70s

Re: The Tories
 

I quite agree, but as it happens I do have a spare bucket of snot if anyone fancies trying, maybe you'll be able to do it if you thicken it with sawdust and rocking horse droppings?
:D

Re: The Tories
 

Only you could have a spare bucket of snot Less:rolleyes::D

Re: The Tories
 

I got it out of that yellow sack you put out for waste bio hazards, the suprising thing is, as you are a lifelong tory I'm amazed you even give that stuff away!
;)

Re: The Tories
 

You must have been at the wrong address don't have any yellow sacks, mind you there is a socialist lives round the corner, anyway if you were in my area why did you call and have a stamp on my oxygen pipe:D

Re: The Tories
 

Yep you fell into the trap, too tight to even put a yellow sack out, as for your oxygen pipe, that is Micks job, I wouldn't dream of stealing another working man's only pleasure.
;)

Re: The Tories
 

Na we're more up market Less our sacks are Orange mate:D

Re: The Tories
 

There you go extracting the urine just because I'm colour blind, typical Tory always picking on a peron's unfortunate weakness.
:eek:

Re: The Tories
 

No Less was just taking the pee, thats yellow:D

Re: The Tories
 

It looks black to me and I have this terrible pain in the kidneys, I thought at first it was from splitting my sides at your lifelong beliefs, but maybe it's something else...
:(

Re: The Tories
 

I do find that opinions about Thatcher tend to be divided and quite extreme but I don't think even the most blue-eyed Tory could deny that there was a great deal of "bad" going on at that time. Could I ask you though, do you, with hindsight, still agree with the privatisations? Do you think that people working hard to make a living and struggling to make ends meet as a result of those privatisations were a price worth paying for a bit of political dogma? Was the destruction of tens of thousands of peoples way of life really worth it just to prove a point?
Just for the record (in case I'm accused of bias) I have been driven away from the Labour party because of the slavish adherence to American foriegn policy. I may be back in the fold soon but at the last couple of elections I have voted (bizarely) UKIP out of desperation and partly because of my dislike/distrust of the EU.
Oh, by the way, in my last post I forgot to mention the 15% interest rates that were forcing people out of there homes and causing businesses to close in record numbers.
Come to think about it, can anyone come up with anything done in that period that worked out well for the ordinary man and woman on the street?

Re: The Tories
 

I've no great love for Margaret Thatcher and I agree with you that we are now paying the price of her "privatize everything" stance with electricity, gas, water, rail companies and many others routinely ripping us off.

However, she did one thing that worked out well for us - she faced down the French, Germans and their cronies to negotiate our EU rebate which has saved us billions over the years. Unfortunately, the odious and slimey war monger, Blair negotiated a large part of it away later on, in return for vague promises on CAP reform. It's estimated that Blair's spineless surrender will have cost us around £9.3billion between 2007 and 2013.

Re: The Tories
 

I suppose that selling the council houses to the tenants could be seen as benfitting the man in the street. Many of the people who bought the houses would never have been able to get on the property ladder any other way.......but while it might have been of benefit to those in the houses at the time, we are suffering now with a lack of affordable housing......and I guess this has to be put down to the selling off of this stock.

Re: The Tories
 

I was always under impression that council houses were fer folk who couldn't afford a mortgage? on that basis it was folly to flog em off cheap.

Re: The Tories
 

Don't forget that she also put the government of the day in charge of the country instead of the Unions, she put lunatics like Scargill in their place, which was a plus for every body in the country

Re: The Tories
 

Oh yeh i remember, whilst Scargill was a balloon, it was a real plus fer all those villages/community's that the bloody minded bitch destroyed forever, whilst at the same time giving the police force licence to beat up women @ children, of which i was witness to that aftermath.:mad::mad: It still makes me blood boil to this day, but i suppose to you that was another plus fer everybody.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

So you think Scargill was a great man, pity a lot of his trade union comrades didn't think the same;)

Re: The Tories
 

Oh yeh i remember, whilst Scargill was a balloon,

Take yer blinkers off yeh blind get, I never said that.;) Mind you yer little mates online,so he will probably call me a liar again.

Re: The Tories
 

My mistake I'd have called him a baffoon not a balloon:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Yes, I'm sure they were...but it meant that many folk who couldn't get on the property ladder(the ones who were considered poor - not usually the type helped by the tory party) were given that opportunity.
I am not saying it was right. I am responding to a question that was posed.
'did any of the Thatcher policies help the man in the street?' That was one which did......at least in the short term.

And when you consider that many of the people living in these houses, had been there for many years...they had probably paid the market value for them over the years.

It was a policy to catch votes and beggar the long term consequences...all parties are guilty of similar things.


I told myself I wasn't going to post to this thread again.......this is definitely the end of it for me. It has all beeen said...over and over and over......tediously, without it making an iota of difference to anything.

Re: The Tories
 

Privatisation wasn't just a "bit of political dogma". It lead to competition which benefited the consumer, replacing inefficient state monopolies and taking the taxpayer off the hook. Take the telephone market. Could you imagine only having the choice of BT? There'd be no reason for them to improve their service, sort out your problems with haste or provide cheap internet access. You have the choice of a large number of suppliers, allowing you to pick the one you prefer.

Politicians do not know best. They can't predict what goods and services people want. Business meets consumer demand, and business fails when it gets it wrong. When politicians decide what is best for us we end up with inefficient and expensive services that we all pay more tax for.

Re: The Tories
 

Call him what yeh want yer entitled, but aint noticed yeh condemning the damage the bitch did to ordinary working people.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

It was these ordinary working people that were hell bent on briging the Government down again, like they did in 74, only it wasn't Ted Teeth this time.;)

Re: The Tories
 

...and what about the privatisation of gas and electric? Has that benefitted the consumer? Has it heck as like. It's been replaced by a cosy little cartel who routinely rip the consumer off to add to their already fat profits. What about water? Have we "the choice of a large number of suppliers"? I hadn't noticed. :rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Utter tripe, it was about Pit Closures sod all else, summat torys very conveniently forget.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

That wasn't Scargill purpose, he used it for his own ends, him and his mate mad mick;)

Re: The Tories
 

Oh to be so innocent and naive..inefficient state monopolies...I remember when I had an issue with water, gas or electric I could use my BT phone and get in touch with someone without going via 12 options only to reach an Indian with little grasp of English.

I could even go down to the Electric Showroom or Gas Board and see someone in person about my complaint.

I once had a problem with British Gas that took me 3 years to get resolved because I had to deal with the email/telephone complaints system instead of being able to speak face to face

Re: The Tories
 

Yes there are problems. The privatisations that happened haven't turned into some utopian system that can do no wrong. It is better than the old system though. Do you honestly trust politicians to not rake it in and funnel the proceeds into their next pet project.

There's no point in private industry existing if there isn't some form of effective competition. The current energy market clearly needs to be looked at. Unilateral price rises aside, it's incredibly difficult to work out who is actually the cheapest for the amount of energy you use. They can all get away with increasing their prices when it's not clear who to go with. Ofgem, the energy regulator, needs to enforce a simplification of tariffs so that it's crystal clear to consumers.

Re: The Tories
 

No-ones disputing the stupidity n ego of Scargill, what is in dispute is the damage that cow caused to the british public, yet idiots refuse to acknowledge the fact.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

You've got to be kidding me. You would not be able to do that today if it was still nationalised.

Choose a phone company that doesn't have overseas call centres if that's your gripe. That's the beauty, you have the choice.

Re: The Tories
 

No, they haven't turned into some utopian system that can do no wrong". What they have turned into are outright profiteers who are solely concerned with how much money they can rake in from the long-suffering British public whilst putting as little as possible back in in terms of improving their infrastructure and service. And you're telling me that's "better than the old system"? Utter rubbish. Gas, electric and water were all more affordable when they were treated as public amenities and the service was certainly no worse.

And what about transport? Rail users are crowded into grubby, dilapidated carriages and forced to pay prices that are the highest in Europe for the privilege of doing so. As for buses, at one time this borough had a fleet and service that was one of the best in Lancashire. Then Thatcher decided to privatise and now we have a transport "system" (for want of a better word) more suited to a third world country. And you call that "better"? :rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Erm...I guess I was too obtuse for the tory mindset... that is exactly what I did when it was nationalised, went and spoke to someone in a shop in the town centre using a bus that was roadworthy, driven by a driver in a uniform that instilled trust and confidence...when it was privatised it took me 3 years to resolve using internet and phone because I kept having to explain the problem to different people over and over and over and over ad infinitum.

Although to be fair I didn't have to travel to a town centre full of drunks on a death trap minibus driven by a lunatic, so the swings and roundabouts argument could apply

Re: The Tories
 

It was because of Scargill that so much damage was done in the first place but you won't except that:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

A few years ago, BT told it's shareholders, 'we can invest money in fibre optic cables and improve the system or we can pay your bonuses, we can't do both', guess who voted to get their bonuses?

Re: The Tories
 

.
Wonder why the pavement was dug up and why I've had a BT fibre optic post outside my house for over a couple of years.

Re: The Tories
 

I agree it was and is a big mistake

Re: The Tories
 

But where is the money coming from for the fibre upgrade, BT or the government?

To be honest I don't care who pays for it. My broadband is slower than dial up and 3G, according to BT website the exchange at Great Harwood which is my nearest exchange living in Rishton are not getting it anytime soon.

I wouldn't mind if the street I live in was cabled, but it isn't, but it doesn't stop me getting bombarded with Virgin Media leaflets every week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Re: The Tories
 

BT have been laying plenty of fibre optic cables. They're spending £2.5 billion on it.

Re: The Tories
 

They are now, yes.

Re: The Tories
 

because they are getting subsidised to let their shareholders to keep getting a profit if thats not wasting money what is.while im on the sbjects of cock ups GCSE results: angry headteachers demand total re-mark of English papers | Education | The Observer

Re: The Tories
 

On the subject of cock ups on your way to Berick are ya:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

na telly for me today ;):D

Re: The Tories
 

Fair weather supporter:D

Re: The Tories
 

And that somehow makes up for the destruction of viable, productive industries and communities in this country?..for me that is a disgusting attitude and just goes to show the hell bent ideology you and most tories adhere to.

Re: The Tories
 

it destroyed hundreds of years of social cohesion of which we are seeing the consequences now .full communities conscribed to the scrapheap crumbling hospitals and schools enough money and infrastructure lost so labour had to spend money and keep pumping money into the economy now the tories are doing the same again and we will reap more consequences:(:(

Re: The Tories
 

Have you moved to Glasgow now. Shame It was OK when I worked there.:confused::confused:

Re: The Tories
 

Mind you the once liberals talk rubbish and are so weak they'd fall down without a tory backbone..

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...RE87S017201208

I'm not a fan of rinsing the rich for tax and this makes Clegg and the liberals look like the idiots they are.

Re: The Tories
 

When was that:eek::eek::eek:

Re: The Tories
 

Its ok saying that and I agree with you but Labour did nothing to reverse the problems. They just carried on and let it happen

Re: The Tories
 

That doesn't show a balanced assesment of what happened in reality.

Now you'll just be labelled by the blind party faithful as a Tory propogandist, whose politics are to the right of Oswald Mosley.

:D

Re: The Tories
 

And piled more misery on the people of this country, increasing PFI on building hospitals, the NHS now spend 14% of their budgets before thinking about treating patients, but Mancie and co never mention that, nor £43 billion in interest on outstanding debts, that before paying back what was borrowed in the first place, Hell I could live in mansion in its own grounds and drive a roller, on borrowed money, but if you borrow you've got to pay it back whether your a private individual or a government

Re: The Tories
 

Ah but I have proof I am not a Tory, a Labour councillor was savaged this afternoon in the Pet Warehouse by my Beagles fierce tongue :D:D

Re: The Tories
 

I didn't know you'd started making those dodgy videos again.

I would need to know which councillor's in it, before you can flog me a copy.

The one you did before, 'BBW versus Billy Goat Gruff', was a classic.

Wasn't she a councillor or something?

:rolleyes::D

Re: The Tories
 

Ya mean it didn't bite him/her:D

Re: The Tories
 

My dog is the softest mutt ever, you are quite likely to trip up over her in the park though when she is playing with her other doggy friends.

As for dog videos I did post one of facebook a while ago when she tried to catch geese in Jack House res :D

Re: The Tories
 

But will you get the "faithful" voters of either side to admit that both the "major" parties in this country are equally to blame for the mess that has been created? Think we all know the answer to that one apart from our "leaders" :rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

I was a faithful voter fer decades, until i saw the light n accepted the fact theres very little difference between em nowadays, These days i have scant regard fer faithful voters, in fact regard em as idiots.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Yeah but there are a few members who just can't see what the rest of us can see. Would go as far as to say our elected "members" who were so vocal before being in power are now very quiet in their opinions and promises as to what would and funnily enough has/is not happening now their party is in power:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Yes.. so if there is a situation were only those two parties have any chance of taking control then it sometimes boils down to voting for the party you consider the lesser of two evils..or maybe don't vote at all.

Re: The Tories
 

British Industries are NOT viable if the BRITISH people don't buy their wares. Governments don't close factories; loss of orders, cash flow and high overheads not being met because workers are on strike are the reasons. Back in the 70s there used to be a shop steward frequent the same watering hole - a fervent Labourite and union member he strongly believed in demarkation, stoppages and go slows to protect his workers from his manufacturing employers. Those jobs were the only jobs he 'protected' as all his clothes were foreign and so was the car he drove - if I'd looked around his home I've also no doubt it would have been furnished with cheap foreign imports. I've no doubt that he, just like the majority of Brits were blindly destroying the manufacturing heritage of this country.

I touched on this in another thread but touched on the fact (with some tongue in cheek) that civil servants especially should buy British. The government hasn't killed British industry the British citizen has

Re: The Tories
 

So lack of investment in industry by owners played no part at all?:rolleyes: Thats summat yehs aint touched on, Hardly a shock though.

Re: The Tories
 

I think owners, as you put it decide to curtail investing in industry, back in the sixties and seventies, when there were mass strikes very nearly every week, they decided their money would be better invested in countries who weren't in the straight jacket of the communist lead Trade Unions

Re: The Tories
 

Well i would expect that rubbish from you, Mill owners were told n told in the 50s what would happen, but being like yerself ignored the fact.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

The cotton industry just couldn't compete with cheap imports from the far east, no matter how much money was pumped into the mills. Cloth in the far east was being produced at less than, 10% of the cost over here, but you don't like the true facts;)

Re: The Tories
 

My other half and I set up our own manufacturing & installation company in 1972 after he was demobbed and I shouldn't have to tell you that unions wouldn't allow companies to modernise because new machinery meant loss of jobs for union members. I know of one national company which hid new standings under a layer of concrete whilst some other health and safety building work was being carried out; then, during the Accrington annual holiday shut down, the thin top layer of concrete was removed exposing the standings and the new plant was installed.
.

Re: The Tories
 

Shoshhhhhhh Lucy they don't want us to here that ;)

Re: The Tories
 

Well aware of stuff that went on in the 70s, I mentioned lack of investment in the 50s, well before the unions had the power, Summat the likes of Lucy n you don't choose to hear.:rolleyes: But still a Torys a Tory.

Re: The Tories
 

And a blind socialist is still a blind socialist:D

Re: The Tories
 

Don't you agree never to disagree, when you sign up, and join the clique?

They'll be black balling you two.

:rolleyes::D

Re: The Tories
 

Its sad really,some of the more deluded members think i protect people.:rolleyes: still if that theory suits there purpose.:D

Re: The Tories
 

Agreed.

Can never see much evidence of a clique on here.

A unified body?

Speaking as one voice?

Nah.

Some right old ding-dongs, even amongst the oldest of forum members.

:D

Re: The Tories
 

Ya its a bit like a boxing match really ya knock seven bells out of one another then go for a pint afterwards:D

Re: The Tories
 

The idiots who accuse us of being in some sort of cahoots, obviously never read the Accy Observer.

;):D

Re: The Tories
 

Or even Accy Web.

Up until you tore up your Conservative party membership card...and I tore up Graham Jones.

:D

Re: The Tories
 

Ya those were the days:rolleyes::D

Re: The Tories
 

I worked for an engineering company in the 1950s when the standard rate of tax on all income was 47.5% and the higher rate was 99%. We exported 78% of our products and although I don't know what the gross sales income was I assume the company paid the full whack of 99% on its net income. The company invested in people - they provided playing fields & equiupment, team uniforms, tennis courts, paid for further education and looked after its pensioners.

I've always thought the drawback to modernising our own factories, is that we sold much of our old machinery abroad and taught the new owners how to use it, which meant that there was much more competition, cheaper competition, for us in the world's market place. Additionally; don't forget quite a few blueprints of our old cars went to countries which hadn't got a history of designing and manufacturing cars.

Re: The Tories
 

Lucy we had British companies making machinery for the cotton industry and exported it to countries who then started to undercut us and that went on up to the late 80s

Re: The Tories
 

Yes, and those blue prints went with a couple of training manuals designed by our car manufacturers bosses,
How to use rust as a substitute for decent steel and How to coat pre-rusted vehicles with a paint substitute that offers no protection at all The blue prints were good well designed, no corners cut, the quality of the finished product here, rubbish!
They based their models on the blueprints but added quality control because they unlike our management actually gave a ****.

Re: The Tories
 

Why don't this lot admit they messed it up from the start and should have had this approach to the economy two years ago?..and yet again they go back to the same old dogma and rely on the private sector..they are clueless!

BBC News - George Osborne in £50bn private sector building vow

Re: The Tories
 

Maybe I've been looking in the wrong places, but I haven't yet come across any member of the public discussing new ideas of how to get the British and/or European economies growing.....

We need to export and I think the coalition government were right to initially allocate money to researching new ideas/products which pushed the boundaries.

I'm wary of this new idea taken from your link: <<
The Treasury said the The Infrastructure (Financial Assistance) Bill, which builds on a scheme launched in July, will give the green light to £40bn of construction projects by using the government's low interest rates to underwrite them.
To qualify, the projects must be "nationally significant", ready to start construction within 12 months, financially credible and "good value" for taxpayers.>>


In conjunction with other legislation re red tape, that latter sentence could mean the Spanish owned airport owners could flatten ancient English villages, churches, graveyards, etc in an expansion plan.



We're not exporting enough which means that the money in circulation isn't being brought into the country via exports but is only being passed around in the UK. Bear in mind that any jobs created don't all go to English heritage workers - I make that note because as I walked around Asda and the town the other day most people passed me conversing in foreign languages. Quite a proportion of immigrant workers send a portion of their wages to family in their country of origin. This proportion of workers is greater in number than experienced in previous difficult times and I'#m afraid any government has a greater hill to climb than any previous government.

Re: The Tories
 

Lucy your wasting your time, if it rains on washing days its the Tories fault, this is the same guy along with his man from the north who never said a wrong word when the last Government were throwing money away had over fist, so I sure as hell ain't listening to the Guardian crap they spout on here

Re: The Tories
 

I see this one's still raging then? I've just come back off holiday and thought this thread would be well gone. Just goes to show that, love 'em or hate 'em, the Tories are always good for a conversation.
Incidentally, whilst I was on holiday I lost my job (office shut down whilst I was enjoying my hols), I suppose it's a sign of the times. I've come back to nothing but at least I can blame the Tories (there's no-one else to blame just now but I'll think of someone).

Re: The Tories
 

Think this thread started on the day after the general election and contributed to mostly by those who for the previous 13 years had cheered Blair Brown and company on, while they ran this country to the edge of financial ruin.

Re: The Tories
 

Just shows you don't know the site very well, the only time a thread goes dead is when there is no longer any potential to wander in it.
:)

Re: The Tories
 

That's if you actually believe the Tory hype about the state of the economy. When your beloved Margaret came to power she spent a good 4/5 years blaming the previous Labour government for everything. She didn't seem too concerned about her own governments shortcomings.
As for Blair, he was a breath of fresh air for quite some time until he became the warmongering fool that I will admit he became, that's why I ceased supporting the Labour party although I do think they are electable now. Brown as Chancellor, however, was in charge of one of the best periods, economically, that this country has seen in years.
As for your reply, Less, you are quite right, I'm still coming to grips with the fact that some threads on here seem to have more shelf life than Tutankhamun's bandages.

Re: The Tories
 

Well, so far you don't impress me much, I may not be a Tory but, I haven't been overchuffed with Labour's attempt either, I would rather call you a simpleton than an Allie, no insult intended unless of course you are able to think.

Re: The Tories
 

Get out of here, brown was a prat as Chancellor and Prime minister a useless prat at that, who always went missing when the the chips were down, Blair only felt like a breath of fresh air, until he was rumbled and the shine wore off, he couldn't had over to Brown fast enough when he knew this country was going down to tubes fast than the Titanic

Re: The Tories
 

Quite agree, Jay, but please don't try and peddle the myth that Cameron and his lot are any better. Just listening to the useless Teresa May on TV at the moment talking absolute twaddle. :rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Ya know me better Wyn, as your aware I'm no fan of Cameron, and Lansley being moved from the health service portfolio is about 12 months too late, I once met that guy in fact Ken Hargreaves and myself had lunch with him, he was an arrogant T well you know what I mean. My argument has always been about those who come on here and have us believe that everything was a bed of roses prior to 2010, unfortunately the roses were thorns;)

Re: The Tories
 

Oh yes, Jay, I would agree with you on that. However, Lansley's replacement is no better. A shifty, slimey shyster who should've been sacked weeks ago over the News International debacle. The NHS, whatever its many faults, is one of the good things this country has. I certainly fear for its wellbeing in the hands of this creep. :(

Re: The Tories
 

To be honest I would have preferred Liam Fox, but he doesn't seem the flavour of the month with Cameron, maybe didn't go to the right school:rolleyes: