Re: The Tories
 

Okay so Ed gets in, he dumps HS2 (which is too little too late, should have been done back in the 1990's), he pours the money into the country and encourages industry, things which are not really typical Labour territory, Tax Breaks, reducing Income Tax including the Higher Rate to encourage people to achieve more and encourage investment in British manufacturing.
To assist the working man/woman he increases the Minimum Wage (Which is far too low) to a more sustainable amount, say £10.00 per hour.

Would this encourage a return to textile mills? Well seeing Primark is full of people happily buying clothes that cost a few pounds I cannot see it myself.


Okay so lets make consumer electronics, same problem.

You see we are still a exporter of goods from the UK, but we have had to move into highly skilled and advanced areas, things that are fairly simple to make are already being made in the third world for a fraction of the cost.
Will the general public buy British made goods because they are British or will they vote with their purses, after all the goods will cost more because of labor costs.

You could say well look at Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mini, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Vauxhall Motors, the UK motor industry is alive and well, thanks to major foreign investment.
We are still world leaders in Aerospace, Pharmaceuticals, High End Engineering to name but three.

The world is changing and we must change with it to keep ahead in the world.
this is something none of the parties offer.

Re: The Tories
 

Well said BG.
So we just look down at our shoes, shuffle about a bit and do nothing?
We desparately need investment in housing, airport capacity and digital infrastructure. as foundations to any change.
Ed's making all the right moves here.

Re: The Tories
 

No he isn't! He's making all the right noises.
That's easy to do when you're in opposition and can't actually do anything.

If he gets in power, it'll be 'Ah, well the ConDems left such a mess we can't do it'.
Or he'll borrow even more money for our grandchildren to pay back.

No we don't shuffle about and do nothing. BG is right! We need to reinvigorate manufacturing for export, let banking for export move over, they nearly broke us.
Otherwise the only way we can invest in housing, airport capacity and digital infrastructure is by borrowing more money (and don't forget we're already broke).

Re: The Tories
 

Re: The Tories
 

And you think you'd get this with a labour government lead by Mr Ed, Every time in their history when Labour have been kicked out of office the economy was in total disarray, they couldn't run a pee up at Thwaites brewery, as for national British industry, pray tell why, whilst in power for 13 years, did labour not renationalise these industries, maybe its only knuckle heads like you who think its a good idea, even the talking horse does'nt think that's a good idea;)

Re: The Tories
 

If that's the cast why didn't Tony and Gordon do it, after all Gordon did sell of the gold reserves, but nobody can say where it went, except down the drain like most of the money he filched while Chancellor, Labour always seem to have all the answers in opposition, but very few when in power

Re: The Tories
 

I don't think a Labour Government will, but then, neither I or you think a Conservative Government will.

After all, if you even thought there was even the slightest chance that the Conservatives could deliver the goods, you would never have joined Ukip.

Perhaps it's time both you and C'mon posted something of value to the rest of the Country instead of arguing back and forth?
:o

Re: The Tories
 

Sod off Less your not taking all my fun away:D

Re: The Tories
 

Re: The Tories
 

borrowing Gordon brown £250 billion tony blair £150 billion david Cameron £700 billion...

Re: The Tories
 

you know it makes sense;)

Re: The Tories
 

On BBC Breakfast this morning there was discussion regarding Cancer Drugs that are deemed by NICE to be too expensive. The Government has kept funding in place to allow these to be dispensed to Cancer Sufferers. Tellingly in Wales where your prescription is free the Labour party, who have control there, thanks to devolution, are not providing funding, which leads to people renting houses in England so they can get the drugs.
Bad old torys.......

Re: The Tories
 

What digital infrastructure needs investment?

Re: The Tories
 

I'm not blind or daft and I recognise that British shoppers were part of the cause of the eventual downfall of British industries in the latter part of the 20th century.

The question now is that whilst we have plugged the hole whereby non EU citizens were able to come here for low paid jobs, there is still a torrent of Europeans arriving here having already secured British jobs including low paid ones, such as advertised on the EU site:

Wanted: Coffee Shop Assistant ; Senior Supervisor - Subway ; Kitchen Assistant ;
https://ec.europa.eu/eures/main.jsp?...ntCategory=482

Here's the home page for job seekers:-
https://ec.europa.eu/eures/home.jsp?lang=en

Re: The Tories
 

If Ed lives till he's 90 he'll never make any sense, except nonsense that is, can you imagine the two Eds running this country, blows a hole in the wall two Eds are better than, question would you by a car of ED Balls? No me neither. :rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Re: The Tories
 

Very unfair, The Torys aint as bright as Spike.:D

Re: The Tories
 

Hell I just wonder where that puts Labour then:rolleyes: :D

Re: The Tories
 

In a pretty strong position Jay.
Groups that tend to vote Labour including those dependant on the public sector, the welfare state and ethnic majorities are all larger today. He's made no secret he's not interested in winning over Middle England with his policies and he is determined to play the class war againd Cameron et al'
He is also on a vote winner with his opposition to the war in Syria winning back the voters who dumped Tony B and Labour over Iraq.

Re: The Tories
 

not even Maggie would have tried this, shows how dangerous this lot of tories are they tried to censor this protest Conservative Party conference 2013: 50,000 people march for NHS299 protest in Manchester | Metro News

Re: The Tories
 

army veteran man handled from tory party conference showing their true colours now:eek:

Re: The Tories
 

Im all for tory bashing, but your statement is not true and misleading.

They did not try to censor it at all, they like any other political party want the press who turn up to focus on what they have to say.
Do you think when Shell have their shareholders meeting and their is the usual rabble of hippies and deadbeats outside, do you think they allow the attending press and delegates to focus on a group who oppose everything they do?
Of course not.

There where protests outside the lib dem and labour conferences, did you notice how they where not reported?

Remember when a old bloke who dared question Gordon brown at a labour conference got arrested under the terrorism act?

Labour are not whiter than white.

Re: The Tories
 

Again,
your statement is incorrect.

He was not man handled, they where asked to stop disturbing the defence secretary's speech and wait until the end to ask questions.

They didn't ask any questions, they just had a shouting rant.

Please report FACTS.

Re: The Tories
 

Ain't heard of many who would now trust labour to run a pee up at a brewery, especially these two dummies:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Don't be silly DAV facts is something c'mon never bothers with, the guy in question was on breakfast TV this morning who openly admitted he only joined the tory party 5 days ago just so he could disrupt the speech.

Re: The Tories
 

Here's one that was reported DAV007 :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_3gcEm7CCc

Re: The Tories
 

There's one born every day :D

Re: The Tories
 

Roger that Neil :D;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46AXesR7NSs

Highly uneducated mentally ill maga gazillionaire big bully Iain Dale beats up a impoverished old man half Iain Dale size and weight at Damian McBride's book memoir , Stuart Holmes Labour Conference Brighton seafront as media stood by to get the shots no one bothered to remind Dale the man was a human also and he should stop the assaults, they could of got the footage later on you tube with all those cameras around right

Re: The Tories
 

ConDem ideology.

Re: The Tories
 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


It has been mentioned on here before by people that the suggested system would be a good idea.

It will be interesting to see just how it works.

Re: The Tories
 

how are they going to find a job if they are doing this:confused: looks like the tories have given up:o or another cover up how the work programme failed yes that's another 10 billion wasted on another tory failure;)

Re: The Tories
 

Retired army officer heckles defence secretary during party speech - YouTube guy in blue suit pulled him out that's why the camera turned ;) watched it live on parliament channel

Re: The Tories
 

he didn't pull him out,
he should have pulled him out as they where told to stop heckling, that's what happens to hecklers you only get so much rope before you hang yourself and get thrown out.

Re: The Tories
 

People on long term dole asked to work for their money and learn the skills and dedication it takes to have a normal job - what is the problem?

Its one off the few tory policies I agree with.

Re: The Tories
 

If there is work out there then give them a living wage for doing it. All they want to do is make a lot more people disapear off the unemployed register so it makes them look good. :rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

it only affects 200,000 people supposedly , so who are the millions of scroungers that have been benefit dependant. something doesn't add up here:confused: its like a jigsaw so what is the official figure of people not working:confused:

Re: The Tories
 

That is perfectly true, many now are working on ZERO hours contracts, which is as much use as tits on a fella, in fact one in our house has been on a 1 shift a week contract fer 2 yrs now,very difficult to get anything else to supplement it cos never know what day or days yer working from 1 week to the next. But the suckers think this is a good policy? Mentality beats the crap outa me.:confused:

Re: The Tories
 

the visit to the jobcentre every day lol:D they've closed half of them and sacked most of the staff. so thatll be another billion for the companies who have committed fraud:eek:

Re: The Tories
 

If we need more street cleaners surely it would be proper to give the Councils grants so they can offer full time permanent employment?

If they go ahead and force people to become 'Dole Slaves', this will have added expense.

If you are sent to your local depot, they will be obliged to kit you out with all the safety gear and safety training. Even if you are there for a day a week or a month.
This will of course have to be repeated every time some-one is started and because of Health and Hygiene they can't be expected to wear cast off boots etc that have been worn by someone else.


The majority of unemployed are not in this position from choice, no-one in their right mind wants to be unemployed.

What is needed is a Government dedicated to kick starting industry so that genuine jobs can be created, giving people pride in a worthwhile job that they will be proud to do well.

There are too many I'm alright Jacks that think everyone that is unemployed is a scrounger and deserves to be treated unjustly.
:mad:

Re: The Tories
 

Since it was launched in June 2011, 1.3m people have started on the Work Programme. Of those, 168,000 have gone into jobs for long enough - a fairly modest three months or six months, depending on their circumstances - to trigger "outcome" payments to the private sector agencies delivering the scheme. Even discounting those who only began the programme recently, the Government's claimed success rate of 15% leaves mucho to be desired. On that evidence, it is difficult to see how Help to Work will help or, indeed, work.
Norfolk in Chance Less.;)

Re: The Tories
 

All very true.
But it will also prevent any such person from working and signing on.

Re: The Tories
 

your not saying there are scrupulous companies who don't pay cash and don't pay tax:D:D lol ian Duncan dafty announced today that they would be going into jobcentres to attend classes lol 1. they are going to have to pay for their travel fares 2. they got rid of 200,000 jobcentre staff 3.the work programme private companies have already been paid to do this. is this ids admitting the work programme failed ? lol

Re: The Tories
 

What a load of prejudiced tripe!
Once again not being able to get your head around the fact that the majority of the unemployed are as honest as everyone else.
You are convicting without a trial as if to say all unemployed are dishonest rather than considering how lucky you are not to be in that position yourself, shame on you.

Re: The Tories
 

There are also a lot of dishonest employed people

Re: The Tories
 

Indeed, a person should wonder what, if anything happens to the people that do employ claimants that are caught working for cash in hand?
Surely they should be treated as harshly, for their complicity in the dishonest action?

Re: The Tories
 

I think you're right. A company is breaking the law for employing people not entitled to work in this country so why are they not breaking the law employing people who should be working?

Re: The Tories
 

I didn't say they where not.
But some do, I know this first hand.

Re: The Tories
 

So yippee for you, did you report them?

If not, aren't you as guilty by ignoring the problem?

Without the people willing to cheat the rest of us by paying cash in hand, how could the claimants, be tempted in the first place?

Folk that fiddle their taxes, tempting people on the dole, are they not worse?

Yes, someone fiddling their dole is wrong, deserves to be prosecuted, but why does it seem that the guy employing isn't prosecuted, he is saving by not paying all that he should for a legal worker.

Stop the person from employing, make him responsible, all of a sudden he will pay for his workers in the correct manner, Hey, suddenly we have honest workers and bosses.
:confused:

Re: The Tories
 

Meanwhile Satan was allegedly seen at Aldi looking for a Winter jacket! ;)

Re: The Tories
 

Wrong again, I sold him my winter coat so that I could buy a hi vis, did me no good, I reckon he grassed me up to the dole investigators.

:(

Re: The Tories
 

the tories the party that lowers your standard of living;) their smear campaign on ed millibands dad didn't go far;) especially when the owners granddad was a Nazi sympathiser . William hague was aske if this was right to try and smear a dead man he said it was upto milliband and the daily mail to sort it out. the owner of the daily mail is one of david camerons personal friends;)

Re: The Tories
 

Well at least he has some friends:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

My God, both of you don't half talk bollux!

Re: The Tories
 

Gotta say it was just a tad distasteful the Mail using a pic of Millibands dad's grave in their online article but whenever has the Mail been an upholder of good taste?


The Guardian also draws attention to the Mail's own "potentially treacherous" stance in years gone by.
"By delving back into the fight against fascism, the Mail inevitably invites consideration of its own record in the 1930s and 40s.
"The first Viscount Rothermere supported Mosley and the Blackshirts in the early 1930s. Later the paper favoured appeasement and tried to subvert the constitution in Edward VIII's favour during the abdication crisis.
"The 1930s were uncertain and difficult times and hard judgment calls were made. It is only with hindsight that it is clear how wrong, even - looking back - how potentially treacherous some of them were."

Alaister Cameron's rant at John Staefel is a cracker too. "Not bad for a Burnley supporter ! "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-GMTxycAXY

Re: The Tories
 

I liked your previous post which made the same point and I agree with you 100%

We have laws that punish the employer when they employ illegal migrants or foreigners without visa's AND we should do the same to employers who employ people claiming job seekers allowance

Re: The Tories
 

piers morgan was one of tony blairs friends.
he was editor when the daily mirror published fake photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse.
The same pictures which where used by every hot head in the middle east to justify attacking british troops.
The same photos which set a crowd off and lead to the death of british troops.


All press are evil, both left and right.
not everything in life is black and white.

Re: The Tories
 

When will you all start to realise that they are all the same?
None of them have your(the man in the street) best interests at heart...they only care about how they can make a fast buck at our expense...and how they can save their hides when the brown stuff hits the fan.

The press are in cahoots with politicians of one shade or another, so they can't really be trusted to lie straight in bed.

Re: The Tories
 

i was never a blairite he took the third way down the wrong avenue. he helped bring mandelson the traitor into the fold, but he did promise a better standard of living and delivered. people forget what it was like before 1997 3 million unemployed infrastructure in disarray as they took the words investing in roads not subsidising the railways people working for 2 pound an hour etc. just been listening to david camerons speech it doesn't make sense ? where are a million training places going to appear from:eek::confused: he was just making it up as he went along ha ha

Re: The Tories
 

Yup, nothing but soundbites and populist slogans from both Cameron and Milliband. 'We can do better', 'earning or learning'.....who writes this crud, the editor of the Beano???

So if they make under 25's go to the job centre or a learning centre from 9-5

a) Where will they get the people to educate them?
b) How much will they pay these educators?
c) Will there be any significant saving when you remove the cost of the educators from the dole being paid?
d) Are there job centres or learning centres big enough to take ALL the under 25's?
e) Just what will they educate them to do? Write CV's, use google to search job sites?

There are already training centres out there looking to give apprenticeships for kids, unfortunately the kids are required to actually get employment before they can offer them the apprenticeships, the training centres do the theory, the employers do the practical.....the jobs are simply not there. Government schemes offering cash to employers, setting wages for apprentices at £2.65 an hour (incidentally thats 90 hours work to pay for a belt like Camerons wife wore today) and STILL these kids cannot get these jobs. Why? Because they don't bloody well exist anymore, thanks to thatcherism.

These damn tories detroyed the infrastructure of the northwest blaming an unreasonable workforce as a reason for doing it (not unreasonable demands from employers mind you), then they blamed the people they threw on the scraphead for the failure of the economy of the country (not the rich bankers), and now they are blaming their kids and threatening to take away the pittance they get whilst trying to eke out a life (all the time condoning tax loopholes for the wealthy, jobs for the boys with nonsense like crime comissioners and continuing membership of Europe allowing foreign workers to take what few jobs there are).

They've attacked the sick, the disabled, the old and the single parents. They've forced people out of their family homes. They have damn well killed people with their policies!

None of the parties are offering anything REAL for the people, it's all promises, soundbites, rhetoric and opposition bashing. The man in the street has become an underclass ruled by politicians, the very people who are supposed to speak up for us are speaking down at us!

Re: The Tories
 

You never said a word about it at the time...it is only now that you bang on about it....and there are many of us who do remember the years before '97'.
Tony Blair was never a socialist....he made the Labour party more like the tories that you deride at every opportunity....he made them just a paler version of the real thing...and do you really think he had the needs of the electorate in this country at the heart of what he did? Of course he didn't...he was arrogance personified...all he wanted was a place in he history books and lots of money.....he succeeded in that aim all right.

You think Blair delivered do you......? Education, education education......yet any manager who interviewed young people will tell you that even some of those with useless degrees were not educated for a place in a working environment.

Tough on crime...tough on the causes of crime....that was a real laugh.
Criminals never had it so good......I'd like to know where you get your rose coloured glasses from...just so that I could get myself a pair

Re: The Tories
 

This proposed extension to doctors hours is getting me. :(
They will be working longer hours, who is going to pay for the support workers, receptionists, nurses and maintenance staff? What about the disruption to their lives not to mention the cost of child care?
Now I am no medical expert but as I understand it, blood samples taken for certain things can't be just stored overnight in a fridge because it skews the cholestrol measure so that will mean another daytime trip to see someone.
Another Cameroonian sound bite that's not been thought through.

Re: The Tories
 

Where will they find the extra Doctors?

Re: The Tories
 

They will have to do what they do in hospitals and work out Rota systems to ensure cover.
Pals is a big complex, but you can never get an appointment, and there never ever seem to be more than three doctors on at any time.....lots of the doctors work is deferred to Nurse clinicians as well......one of the senior partners lectures at Salford Uni...fine, if that is what he really wants to do, but while he is doing that who is looking after his patients?

The staff need to be effectively managed......and the best uses of resources made.(and in my opinion, that isn't happening right now)

Re: The Tories
 

Presumably the doctors will also want a salary increase if they do this?
It's only a few years since the Labour Government gave them a 30% rise at the same time as they agreed to let them stop evening and weekend cover.
Result- out of hours you drive miles to see a doctor who doesn't have your info and doesn't really care or you wait 4 hours in A&E.
Hard life being a GP- when will they have time to spend all that money?

Re: The Tories
 

so working for £2.50 an hour is fair. your denying the standard of living went up . so how come we never had a million and half under 25s on the rock and roll like we do now. there was more police on the beat at any other time. burglaries went down that's a fact violent crime went down that's a fact the proceeds of crime bill was passed the police equipment was modernised small business thrived and then credit crunch came. there was 3 million unemployed when labour came to power when labour left there was the biggest worldwide recession and there was still less unemployed when labour entered power. people were brought into the fold with sure start schemes the disabled weren't stigmatised the list goes on.

Re: The Tories
 

Please do not put words in my mouth. Where have I said that working for £2.50 an hour is fair?(if you can find any post of mine that say this I will show my bare bum in front of the town hall on a Saturday afternoon and sell tickets)
As for the numbers of people on the dole..it was well known that the last government would do anything to manipulate the figures...and as for crime....the figures went down because the way that crimes were recorded changed....this made it look like crime was down..when in fact it wasn't.
Who presided over the banking fiasco? Who sold the gold reserves at rock bottom prices? Who said no more boom and bust?

You can say anything you like now.....but the time you should have said it were when your favourite blue eyed boys were in power.

I will say it until you get the message...they are all in it for themselves...and not for us...They really couldn't give a flying fig for our predicament...and that goes for ALL the political parties.

Re: The Tories
 

Margaret he will "Never" get the message, as me grandad used to say "Yeh can't put sense where there is none":rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

the national minimum wage was delivered and a higher standard of living for normal people was delivered;)

Re: The Tories
 

Funny how i never noticed me standard of living was higher, i musta sodded off to Spain fer nothing.:rolleyes: Yeh really are blinkered yeh clown.:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

and my standard of living didn't improve either...especially when GB doubled my tax bill.

You are right Cashy, but at least this member is now saying things about his precious Liebour(not a spelling mistake) government that he never mentioned when they were in power.
And he still hasn't told me where to get those rose coloured specs!

Re: The Tories
 

I moved to Spain Margaret, fer no reason but to earn a living wage.:eek: I was told in the Job Centre at Blackpool, That cos i was oer 50,i would only be able to earn minimum wage.:mad: I tried it ( after earning decent money all me life) was not good, That was reason i beggered off Plain @ Simple. Cmon is either very deluded or tells lies fer fun.:(

Re: The Tories
 

because I always like to believe the best in people(even him), I think he is probably deluded...or in denial.

Re: The Tories
 

Talking to Dr Doug in the Forts on Thursday Gordon, he says some Docs will shift their hours starting say at 11 instead of 8, if it comes to pass.
Cameron wants the opening hours of surgeries to be increased not necessarily Doctors to work longer hours.
AS per my previous post, net effect...more staff all round,,who's gonna pay?

Re: The Tories
 

If it shifts the work from the A&E depts then it has got to be the thing to do...it isn't about working harder, it is about working smarter.
Personally I would put all the doctors on notice...renegotiate their contracts so that they had to find a way to overcome the problems that they have created for A&E depts. You just cannot get an appointment with a GP when you are ill.
I have even been told by a GP...'if this doesn't clear up - take yourself off to A&E'...this is not appropriate or good advice.

Re: The Tories
 

Cashy he's not even blinkered he's just a plain old thick jock;)

Re: The Tories
 

And just imagine back in 97 there was only 24 hours to save the NHS, ;) sadly the NHS was in a very poor way in 2010, but there again it hasn't improved since then either, its time to take The NHS out of the political area and stop it being used as a political football by inept political leaders scoring political points. You can't play games with peoples health full stop and its time it stopped:mad:

Re: The Tories
 

Agree.
Health provision should be provided by the state and only the state with no political involvement.
Making profit out of health care is dangerous.

Re: The Tories
 

Lost me on this one :confused:

Isn't the state the government, which, by its nature, is political?

And...If government does not oversee, it then becomes private..which is kinda what the tories want anyway

Re: The Tories
 

Sorry Guinness, let me explain.
I think political interference has damaged the NHS.
Looking back over the past 10 years alone, Labour had the obsession with waiting list and KPI's that hospital manager and care trusts where more interested in the figures than patients.
It would be interesting if the NHS could have an over seeing care trust of experts.
Of course, the danger of such a organisation is it could be unaccountable and open to outside interest groups.
Thus, if all private provision was removed, in theory you would remove a significant proportion of the private pressure groups.
I assume it would still be accountable to politicians who could influence it by how it was accountable, but it may help reduce the influence.

There are still lots of problems and questions. For example, we are reliant on the drug companies to bring about new innovations and developments.
How do we ensure the tax payer is not being ripped off?

Although this problem exists at the moment.

Re: The Tories
 

The NHS has always been a political football, and political meddling has done it no damn good at all.

Re: The Tories
 

Personally I think it's the interpretation of the previous governments policy by the bureaucratic civil service that has screwed the NHS.

Cutting down waiting lists and ensuring people are seen when they are ill was a bloody good policy.

Unfortunately the Sir Humphreys and associated jobsworths screwed the pooch by employing an interminable amount of managers and inbetweeners to lick envelopes, buy stamps and have meetings about where to buy the envelopes and which is the best day to post the appointments, leaving no money to pay for nurses and doctors to actually keep these appointments.

Heard a story this week about someone seriously ill who was sent to RBH by their doctor and had to wait for over 6 hours to get a bed because according to RBH records said person was already dead. That's not government..thats incompetence!

Let me give you another...some guy with learning disabilities has to go into hospital..LCC stop paying the minute he goes into hospital because the NHS has to foot the bill, however it takes time for the cumbersome NHS to get its act in gear, meanwhile nurses who are not equipped to deal with said challenging behaviour guy treat him as a normal patient, staff who can deal with him are not being paid and aren't there to assist...food is left for him but guy doesn't eat or drink without support..he gets worse..he puts an even bigger burden on services..he becomes disruptive..does a runner or maybe even dies...who takes the blame....who is responsible?

Social services say they are following guidelines, so does the NHS...somebody dies unnecessarily and nobody is to blame, meanwhile Cameron and Osborne can still say there have been no cuts to frontline services.....go figure!

Re: The Tories
 

NOOOOOOOOOOOO don't say "it isn't about working harder, it is about working smarter." you sound like some nonsense talking politician. I hate such buzz words, next you will be thinking out of the box and wanting to empower doctors to make their own choices.

Why do we never have a problem getting an appointment to see a Doctor when we need one when everyone else appears unable to do so?

Re: The Tories
 

No it was a stupid comment by a stupid politician who didn't stop to think how he would make is happen.

What really happened was that people ended up sitting waiting for longer in surgeries and it became hard to phone up and make an appointment for next week because they tried to keep all the appointments to give out in the morning for same day consultations to meet Government targets

It would have been good if the PM had put money into it and created more Doctors to reduce waiting times

Re: The Tories
 

The following seems to indicate that's what happened, a steady increase in the number of doctors in the last ten years

GMC | List of Registered Medical Practitioners - statistics

Re: The Tories
 

The only people running the NHS should be people with clinical knowledge, people with hands on experience in working within the system, people who know what and why they are doing things, Its all well and good putting some body on a pedestal and call them the secretary of state for health if they don't know earache from an ulcer. Being some one who's had a lot more of his fair share of hospital beds than most over the last 35 years I've an idea what's what, what it doesn't need is some noncom making rules just because they happen to be a member of a political party in office, this ain't the way forward for me;)

Re: The Tories
 

You are right, the NHS is a political football and I see what you are saying but think about it...the NHS is more than just healthcare..its feeding the sick, buying sheets and blankets, paying the electricity bills, keeping ambulances and other ancilliary vehicles on the road, purchasing equipment, drugs and furniture...etc...etc...etc..

It makes no sense and its a waste of resources to have clinicians doing those jobs when they are needed to actually heal people.

The main problem with the NHS is the serious wastage of money that is more to do with lack of accountability and poor management than it is to do with government or actual healthcare. I think you highlighted it yourself a few months ago (think it was something about furniture but not too sure).

Lets use breaking your leg as an example...the doctor fixes it as you'd expect under the system..BUT..then you get a brand new crutch free of charge, which they don't want back, (presumably because they may get sued if they supply a crutch which is a little bit worn), they also give you a free leaflet offering free additional aids like things that enable you to sit on and get up from the toilet and have a bath or shower without getting your cast wet, (neither of which they want back). Is this government policy or is this a decision made by NHS management? I believe they even give you the option of having coloured casts????

I use the word 'free' but it all has to be paid for.

The current government doesn't highlight this managerial/admin caused 'free' wastage, they prefer to blame the guys who actually fix the break and say it costs too much in their incessant push for private healthcare.

Re: The Tories
 

I recon the NHS is top heavy with not clinical, I mean paper shufflers, I went from 1995 to 2002 without a stay in hospital, when I was admitted back in 2002 the in crease in none clinical staff was very apparent people endlessly walking about looking important with pieces of paper in their hands, very much like County Hall, but that's another story, the waste in the NHS is ridiculous and something you realise if you're unfortunately a constant end user.

Re: The Tories
 

But Neil, that is what it is about. There are different ways of working that almost certainly would improve the service/care given to patients.

I don't know why I can't get an appointment when I am sick(and I am not often sick - I don't go to the GP's unless I feel like I am dying and am bullied there by someone else in my life).......maybe your practice has a different system than the Pals centre.
It is more of a business than a caring GP practice.

My daughter has been seriously ill this year. Had a major life changing/saving operation in April, and not once did the practice contact her on her release from hospital(in fact we have really struggled to get things that she has needed to make her 'comfortable') Yet, they send me( I'm well and healthy) notification that I am due a flu jab...and that I can go and get a health MOT.

Preventative medicine is a money spinner for practices...looking after those who are truly sick costs them money......so maybe that has some bearing on the situation.

Oh yes, and while I am on the subject I cannot see a GP of my choosing...I have to see whoever is available. Remember I worked with most of these doctors as house officers during my career...and there are some of them I would not want inside my vest.

Re: The Tories
 

That is oh so true Margaret, How long has the Pals been open now?:confused: I once asked fer n appointment wi me doctor, to be told hes booked up for the next 2 weeks,:eek: So since its been open i have never once seen me own doctor,(who i regard as a good un):eek: I am aware some smaller practices have a different way of doing things, Thats perhaps the answer to the smugger uns never having a problem, n before thats denied i do not regard Neil as being to thick to know the reason.:D

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This appointment crap is nonsense, my GP doesn't use one, but when I was in hassy I once rang up for an appointment and was told it would be in 10 days time, I just said fine, I'll have a house call then I'll be in all day:rolleyes: they soon managed to push me in;)

Re: The Tories
 

I asked for a home visit when my daughter was very ill and we got a telephone consultation instead......How is that any good? The doctor could not see her, check her BP, feel her pulse, look at her face to determine the levels of pain, check her skin to see if it was clammy...he had to rely on me for this information...luckily, I am trained to collate it. The upshot was she was carted off in an ambulance with flashing blue lights......if she had not got to hospital when she did, she would be dead now.
It can be as serious as that.

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Thats a disgraceful state of affairs, many would never be able to collate stuff as you have been trained to do.:(

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I know that Cashy...and that is my point.....many people would not be able to give the important details because they do not know what is important....except of course in cases where there is obvious collapse..but then you would ring 999.
Telephone consultations are never a good idea when the doctor has not seen the patient, and many cases doesn't know the patient.

Re: The Tories
 

A very good friend of mine used to use a surgery were the chief receptionist was a real sower puss.

He could never get an appointment always booked up and no system in place to book for the following week.

He changed to the surgery I used, could get an appointment usually within 24 hours or book for something routine to suit himself and the staff a few weeks into the future. He started getting the treatment he had needed at last.

Then one morning he went in and our Doctor had a new receptionist, good old sower puss, within weeks no-one could get an appointment, if you asked for one for the following week the only way to do it was to ring or call in after 4.30 on a Friday, even then you would be lucky.

Also, the Doctor didn't have Surgery on a Wednesday, I imagine even Doctors want a day off? Suddenly the reception desk was also closed Wednesdays so no way of making an appointment etc.

I asked at the surgery next door if I could start with them? (My friend didn't).

I'm now back on a system were the Doctor tries to see you within 24 hours, routine appointments can be made in advance and the reception staff are lovely.

I dread the day, if ever it comes, when sower puss turns up behind the desk of this surgery.

http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Jobs...rd_nurse_2.gif

Re: The Tories
 

Can I just remind people,
Labour during their 13 years where just as happy to get into bed with the private health care providers, especially when they gave the party juicy donations.

Its funny how Andy Burnham has wiped it from his memory!

Re: The Tories
 

Perhaps it isn't wiped from his memory?

Perhaps 'New Tories' (no way should they be called New Labour), have learnt from their earlier mistakes?

Who knows maybe their representatives that will want our votes in 2015 will promise to do things,
erm', at random for example, promise a referendum on the EU and not back-slide on it?

Yeah right, I and 95% of the rest of us on here know, that won't happen.
:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

Had a recent experience with the Health Line at 0200, within 20 minutes they had the paramedics at the house and by 0300 I was in BRH - after that it turned into a fiasco. So for me the Health Line itself worked fine.

Re: The Tories
 

they all promise the world just to get the keys for No 10!

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Worked well for me too Barry last year, which ward at the Royal did you have the pleasure of a fiasco Barry, would be interested to swap notes on that one:rolleyes:

Re: The Tories
 

I think it was C18/Bed 18 Jay but I am trying to erase those memories from the archive:rolleyes: