Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051221)

Just seen a picture of that arrogant sod "Osbourne" Whilst he has cut disabled benefits, he was parking in a disabled space, despite being loads of empty spaces within yards of it.:rolleyes: Were really all in this together are we not.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Guinness (Post 1051230)

Ah..yes the bad old days of nationalisation....

When there was and electric and gas board showroom in every town, where you could pay your bills, get complaints sorted out and everyone paid the same for each therm we used..terrible wasn't it

In a country of abundant rainfall, we had reservoirs looked after by a water board, no droughts or hosepipe bans every time the sun shone, and a water supply we paid pennies for...sheesh dunno how we managed

Plenty of social housing, plenty of jobs

Buses liveried to the town they came from, smart drivers and conductors, inspectors to complain to, reasonable fares and safe buses. Reasonably priced train services

A coal industry and a steel industry

Search and rescue that was the envy of the world, an army with equipment, a navy with ships and an airforce with planes.......

BUT......

Then in the Shire Year of 1979, the Dark Lady who had been resting in the misty mountains of Grantham captured the palace of Westminster and sent forth her black riders led by the necromancer king, who some may know as Geoffrey of Howe, to herald the age of the banker. And lo..did these bankers stop building houses, closed schools and sold off all that was good to the people from across the great ocean. The bankers created much gold for themselves and built themselves the city of Yuppie. Here they did nothing all day but wave pieces of paper at each other and make strange gestures with their hands and arms.

The people of the Shire suffered and begged for work only to be told to get on their bikes, whilst the people of Yuppie rode around in Ferraris and Maseratis armed with a filofax and a communication device that looked like a black brick with an aerial.

The greed of the bankers knew no bounds, the power of the Dark Lady waned, and a man from Sedgefield promised the Shire folk many things, and thus began the 13 years of Grima Wormtongue. He broke his pledges to the folk of the Shire, giving the bankers all that they asked and then making war with many other lands because Saruman the Stupid of Texas told him to. The bankers grew fat, so fat that they did not even check they had enough gold to cover all the pieces of paper they were waving around at each other.

One day, in the town of Northern Rock, one of the Shire farmers forgot to put his money in the bank. This caused great consternation, the bank at Northern Rock did not now have the money it owed to the great bank in the south. The bank in the south grew worried because it could not allow the bankers to wave papers if the shire folk weren't giving them their money to play with. It decided to make an example of the bankers of Northern Rock for being stupid and make them close their doors. But they pleaded, begged and cried so much, that the apprentice of Grima came down from a land in the north called Scotland, he decided to buy the bank using even more of the Shire peoples money and give the bankers in Northern Rock a nice fat bundle of paper to wave at each other, the apprentice of Grima called this bundle of paper a 'bone us'. He told the Shire people that they were 'share holders', but would not get any money for being 'share holders' because the money was needed for the bankers 'bone us'.

It is prophesised that one day, a great light will shine on the Shire, the bankers will wither and jobs, houses, schools and happiness will return to the Shire, but most Shire people think that this is something called a 'con spear I see thee or he' written by someone called the Head Military Band.

Wayy..wayyyy too much time on my hands today :p:p

Originally Posted by Guinness (Post 1051230)

Wayy..wayyyy too much time on my hands today :p:p

Originally Posted by Guinness (Post 1051230)

Ah..yes the bad old days of nationalisation....

When there was and electric and gas board showroom in every town, where you could pay your bills, get complaints sorted out and everyone paid the same for each therm we used..terrible wasn't it

In a country of abundant rainfall, we had reservoirs looked after by a water board, no droughts or hosepipe bans every time the sun shone, and a water supply we paid pennies for...sheesh dunno how we managed

Plenty of social housing, plenty of jobs

Buses liveried to the town they came from, smart drivers and conductors, inspectors to complain to, reasonable fares and safe buses. Reasonably priced train services

A coal industry and a steel industry

Search and rescue that was the envy of the world, an army with equipment, a navy with ships and an airforce with planes.......

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051373)

no your missing the point,i was pointing out that the media lead everybody to think there was thousands.any way thought this was interesting DWP Get The Builders In ? Third Universal Credit Boss In Just 4 Months Takes Charge | the void

Originally Posted by Guinness (Post 1051356)

I'm not the brightest button, don't mind admitting it. Way I see it, as long as I can fill my plastic fag with liquid, afford a few beers, fill the motor with fuel, get a doctor to fix me when i'm ill and keep a roof over my head, I'm reasonably happy.

I know I have to share the wealth by paying taxes, which ostensibly, will pay to protect me from crime, educate my kids, keep me healthy, help the less fortunate in times of hardship and pay a bunch of guys in Westminster to actually collect and share this money out fairly.

Seems reasonable enough to me...

Unfortunately it's been shown that the guys in Westminster are skimming my money to pay for duckponds, second homes, moats and designer clothes for themselves, they give money to countries that don't need it and pay an outrageous annual sub to be in a social club called Europe. Result is my taxes ain't enough to do what they are supposed to do. So these guys decide to install a few extra taxes..not only do you get taxed on what you earn, you get taxed on what you spend, what you save, when you make a profit and even when you die.

These guys in Westminster, that I'm paying, still cannot do their job, they can't budget the money they have coming in with the money they have going out, unfortunately they have a contract of employment that prevents me from firing them immediately. Clutching at straws they try to save their jobs by showing that they are smart and clever at budgeting.

First they reduce the money paid to protect me from crime, then they screw with the way they educate my kids to save a few quid, then they muck about with doctors and health services. But they still can't balance the books.

So they blame the people least able to argue their case, the unemployed, the disabled and the sick. They make savage cuts, force them to pay for extra bedrooms and council tax from their allowance, which is already supposed to be the bare minimum they need to live on and thus over-ride their own definition of bare minimum benefit.

The Westminster gang judge the average person the way they judge each other. They would not pay 3p in the £1 extra tax to help their fellow man, to pay for decent healthcare and crime free streets and they assume that neither would we, because as the current gang have shown, they prefer to reduce the taxes of millionaires by 5p in the £1.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1051444)

Ah, the unemployed, the sick, the aged how much better off we would all be if we stopped just blaming them, but actually could reduce them to ashes?
Hey up Jay, this is an all inclusive statement, don't think just because you're of pensionable age, given the right backing, 'The all in it together brigade' won't pick on you, you've served your purpose and are no use to the coalitions bright future.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1051447)

Less I'm not moaning

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1051447)

Less I'm not moaning I'll leave that to you, your doing enough for both of us;)

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1051455)

Perspectives Jay, to you he may be moaning, to others he's speaking from the position of one actually faced with these changes directly. Most people on here will be affected by these events in one way or another, maybe not first hand but there will be an indirect consequence to them.

Although many will feel the effects, they will understand that there is room for improvement & that some change must inevitably happen to ensure a fair balance, but & it's a major but, it should be more compassionately & humanely achieved, each case needs individual consideration & not covered by blanket policies.

I'm not a raging red, nor tory blue either, certainly no liberalist handwringer, but I do believe in fairness & right, unfortunately there isn't a single party in the UK that fulfils these ideals for me at present & I don't suppose there was in the past either, still there's always the future I suppose, but I can't really say I'm overconfident in that prognosis.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1051462)

And there lies the problem Dave, whatever the Tories do will always be wrong,

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051543)

Benefits in Britain: separating the facts from the fiction | Politics | The Observer myths and facts nothing like the truth:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051585)

Worried residents of Harold who are currently on any form of benefit from job seekers allowance to war widows pension pleaded with the police to take them into custody to ensure the safety of those around them.

Carly Jeffery who works as a teaching assistant at St Mary’s and receives housing benefit and child benefit for her two children Ben (7) and Alice (4) is terrified that being in reciept of government money means that she will harm her family.

‘With the Daily Mail claiming that Mick Philpott and his two accomplices wouldn’t have killed if being on benefits hadn’t made them do it, I’m worried for the safety of my children. I love the kids to bits but I now see that they have been born into a culture of dependency and are doomed to be as feckless as I am. It’s only right that I’m locked up and they are raised by the state which will of course ease the burden on hard working tax payers and give the children a better chance in life, won’t it?’


It’s not just parents who are demanding incarceration.

‘I was okay about being given money by the state so I didn’t starve,’ said Adam Cassidy, who is currently on job seeker’s allowance. ‘Then I heard George Osborne say “It’s right we ask questions as a government, a society and as taxpayers, why we are subsidising lifestyles like these. It does need to be handled.” And I realised that if the Chancellor is linking what I thought was a wildly abnormal and horrific crime with being on benefits then the problem must be very real and very serious because only an abhorrent arse would use the deaths of six children to score cheap political points. Clearly I should be removed from society before I do something terrible.’

Harold’s police service has been swamped with residents demanding that they be arrested because they are scroungers and moral degenerates who refuse to work and have no moral compass.

‘I had winter fuel allowance and a cold weather payment,’ Ruby Butler (83) told the Evening Harold. ‘Now I’m part of what A.N Wilson called “the bleak and often grotesque world of the benefit scrounger” along with most of the rest of the Mothers’ Union. Please take me off the streets before I start selling crack.’

As dozens surrounded the police station and begged to be put behind bars PC Anita Flegg appealed for calm.

‘We’re not interested,’ she told the crowd. ‘We don’t think being on benefits makes you a criminal anymore than being a GP makes you the next Harold Shipman.’

Rumours that local GP Dr Clive Evans has tried to hand himself over to police as a preventative measure remain persistent but unconfirmed.




through the tories eyes:rolleyes::D

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051535)

At last yeh admit it.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1051588)

I thought it worth a chuckle - 'I'm not 'left wing'
(I hope I will qualify for two wings.... eventually :D)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051595)

Don't think i can ever recall yeh as a left winger, Though if it suits Jaysays purpose yeh are.:D

Originally Posted by Guinness (Post 1051561)

Sometimes, just sometimes... you post something really relevant from a bona fide source. Just a pity you never expand and go for the 'kill shot'.



When I was a whippersnapper, apprentices were people who were taken on to learn a trade..under this and the last two governments they were a way of massaging the unemployment figures and getting around the minimum wage....you can in effect employ a 64 year old on £2.65 an hour as long as you agree to train him and call him an apprentice, you don't have to guarantee him a job and, after twelve months, when his apprenticeship is over you can get shut and repeat. (This practice is scheduled to stop in August 2013..but they said that last year too, so I'll believe it when I see it)
When you were a whippersnapper, an apprenticeship was much longer than a year...I would think. My brother was indentured for 5 years. That is longer than it takes to get a degree these days.
Of course governments use this ploy to massage statistics...this has ever been the case.
Would that C'mon had commented so vociferously when his beloved team were in power....Im sure that if he searches as diligently for their particular follies - he would have found them in abundance...but alas he didn't
I get young kids applying for jobs all the time, they knock on the door, ring up and post cv's..the other week when we had heavy snow, one young lad braved it and hand delivered his cv like he was the Avon Calling lady.....can't even give him a chance because of the constant cuts this damn government is imposing..so now he's one of the 'scroungers' that they are attacking, he'll probably end up being forced to attend a job club overseen by an automaton job centre worker and made to post applications for jobs as a brain surgeon in Lancaster or Leyland just to tick boxes for the government to show he's actively looking for work..and in a few years he'll think 'stuff it I give up' and become part of that % that have never worked.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051615)

its scary now ,you dont get jobs now like you did a couple of years ago now.employers are now offering zero hours,temporary or just taking your name for their data base.the work is drying up because of lack of exports.we cant keep relying on the service industry,this is single handly keeping Britain out of recession .if i was leader of the labour party.i would be starting with the manifesto.top of my agenda re nationalize the railways using the eastern line as an example .bringing in £650 million for the taxpayer is not to be sniffed at.£40 million plus investment as well.full employment would come back into the equation of my agenda.bring services back into public ownership more robust and accountable.i could go on:eek:i think i might start a manifesto thread later.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051618)

Department for Welfare and Pensions is the biggest spending department in the UK - spending £166.98bn in 2011-12, which is Of that huge sum, £159bn was spent on benefits - an increase of 1.1% on the previous year. That is 23% of all public spending.

Ask people where that money goes and the assumptions might be on unemployment or incapacity benefit. In fact, 47% of UK benefit spending goes on state pensions of £74.22bn a year, more than the £48.2bn the UK spends on servicing its debt

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051618)

Ask people where that money goes and the assumptions might be on unemployment or incapacity benefit. In fact, 47% of UK benefit spending goes on state pensions of £74.22bn a year, more than the £48.2bn the UK spends on servicing its debt

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051620)

Chancellor George Osborne's disgraced brother has bought a £1million townhouse - even though he doesn't have a job.

Dr Adam Osborne, 34, was barred by the General Medical Council from working as a doctor for six months after he prescribed drugs to four people - two family members, a friend and a cocaine-addicted prostitute he had an affair with.

The financial support of baronet father Sir Peter enabled him to buy the four-storey house in West London.

But while big brother George is making swingeing public service cuts and declaring "we're all in this together", his family really are in a class of their own.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051622)

47% :eek: Thats easy sorted, execute all pensioners.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051615)

if i was leader of the labour party.i would be starting with the manifesto.top of my agenda

If you were the leader of the Labour party...I would be scared:eek:.

I hope your manifesto would be in intelligible, punctuated English.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1051615)

its scary now ,you dont get jobs now like you did a couple of years ago now.employers are now offering zero hours,temporary or just taking your name for their data base.the work is drying up because of lack of exports.we cant keep relying on the service industry,this is single handly keeping Britain out of recession .if i was leader of the labour party.i would be starting with the manifesto.top of my agenda re nationalize the railways using the eastern line as an example .bringing in £650 million for the taxpayer is not to be sniffed at.£40 million plus investment as well.full employment would come back into the equation of my agenda.bring services back into public ownership more robust and accountable.i could go on:eek:i think i might start a manifesto thread later.

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 1051754)

.... Successive goverments have come and gone but none of them seemed to fight for the demise of OUR manufacturing culture...

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1051758)

Its not a case of not fighting, they have caused the demise while pretending to be environmentally friendly but really just forcing our heavy industry to move abroad

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1051764)

I watched the Ford story about Dagenham recently. They made it look like the unions killed off the plant in the end. They moved abroad where the workforce wanted to work.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051765)

Whilst Red Robbo n his ilk, didn't do Ford any favours Neil, yeh can make anything look any way yeh choose.;) I remember how they made those greedy miners look, when in fact the dispute was never about money.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1051778)

No It was Scargill's ego trip, think he could do what they did in the early seventies, in time even the Mirror and Guardian turned against Scargill. It was said after the strike by I think the general secretary of the TUC that Arthur went into the miners strike with a big union and a little house and came out of it with a little union and a big house, Scargill wasn't a champagne socialist he was a champagne Communist;)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051801)

Nothing at all to do with the fact it was about pit closures, Scargill whilst being a knob,was n easy target fer you n yer ilk.:rolleyes: Still i just heard the days got better 87 n out.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051765)

Whilst Red Robbo n his ilk, didn't do Ford any favours Neil, yeh can make anything look any way yeh choose.;) I remember how they made those greedy miners look, when in fact the dispute was never about money.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1051810)

Point of order Mr C
Red Robbo was at convenor and shop steward Longbridge British Leylands plant.
I had the dubious pleasure of working for his nemesis there one Harold Musgrave, just as nasty a piece of work acting as Michael Edwardes bully boy as RRobbo ..."set a thief to catch a thief"

Originally Posted by egg&chips (Post 1051804)

I'll leave it to others to champion and demonise her,.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1051812)

yep well dementias setting in me memorys getting crappy. Mr D. Though i did say n his ilk.lol

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1051810)

Point of order Mr C
Red Robbo was at convenor and shop steward Longbridge British Leylands plant.
I had the dubious pleasure of working for his nemesis there one Harold Musgrave, just as nasty a piece of work acting as Michael Edwardes bully boy as RRobbo ..."set a thief to catch a thief"

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1052075)

well thats another waste of money.just proves what the tories are doing is just ideology.Youth Crime Commissioner: Paris Brown Quits

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1051928)

We share a dubious honour, DtheP- we both had the pleasure of working for Harold Musgrove! Where at every meeting you knew he might sack you, if not you this time then probably someone else. Cross him or let him down and the best you could hope for was to be transfered to some backwater to die.
Oh happy days.

He sorted Red Robbo out though- seeing those two playing together must have been like watching The Chainsaw Massacre film in real life.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053163)

see the plan is still working;) Work Program can't keep up with number of jobless, government told | Society | The Observer
forget about history its about the future we need a plan b.the thing is the people on the work program are included in the employment figures,so what are the real unemployment figures? by my estimate their are 300,000 on the work program,does this really mean the unemployment figures have really still being going up?

Originally Posted by tommiasfc (Post 1053165)

What would plan B be then? You see you like to copy and paste links and like to criticize but you dont have an answer yourself.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053166)

i do have an answer .im working on law bits.;) Decision '79 theme and opening - YouTube very interesting this.

Originally Posted by tommiasfc (Post 1053168)

Come on give some answers talk about the situation. PLEASE have a post without you copying something.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053187)

jaysay who paved the way for thatcherism:confused:;) give us your point of view who paved the way for thatcherite policies:confused:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053187)

jaysay who paved the way for thatcherism:confused:;) give us your point of view who paved the way for thatcherite policies:confused:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053187)

jaysay who paved the way for thatcherism:confused:;) give us your point of view who paved the way for thatcherite policies:confused:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1053192)

William the Conker:


The Harrying of the North 1069 – 70 ;):D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1053192)

William the Conker:


The Harrying of the North 1069 – 70 ;):D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1053199)

What about Attila the Hun, Eric :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053196)

ohh look we have no money,we will just spend money on the russian public service:rolleyes: Britain gave millions of pounds in aid to Putin government - Telegraph

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053196)

ohh look we have no money,we will just spend money on the russian public service:rolleyes: Britain gave millions of pounds in aid to Putin government - Telegraph

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1053200)

Yeh really are a clown cmon, most people completely ignore yer links these days.:D I certainly do.:D

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1053208)

Oops, cmon.
You really should read a link before you paste it to support your ramblings.

The aid was started in 2007(Labour Government), should have ended by 2010, was extended by Labour to 2011 and cancelled by the coalition in 2011-all on your link.

Must try harder!

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053212)

why i am a clown ,i was asking a genuine question why george osborne and co just give millions of pounds to who they want they are giving money away to the russians to bacome more transparent when they cover up and sweep things under the thatch in this country,.its all right to force disabled people who cant move from below the neck to move and feel suicidal .your the clown just because people who win the moral debate ,you just attack with personal insults.just makes you look like a clown:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053212)

why i am a clown ,i was asking a genuine question why george osborne and co just give millions of pounds to who they want they are giving money away to the russians to bacome more transparent when they cover up and sweep things under the thatch in this country,.its all right to force disabled people who cant move from below the neck to move and feel suicidal .your the clown just because people who win the moral debate ,you just attack with personal insults.just makes you look like a clown:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1053216)

You're a clown because you still haven't read your link, have you?

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1053216)

You're a clown because you still haven't read your link, have you?

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1053221)

It's nothing new that Gordon, our C'mon does that quite often, he sees a headline, grabs onto it, then posts without bothering to check the contents. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1053223)

Perhaps his eyes are so bad he can only read the headline and not the text.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1051882)

The tories don't learn from their own miserable history

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1052075)

well thats another waste of money.just proves what the tories are doing is just ideology.Youth Crime Commissioner: Paris Brown Quits

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1053200)

Yeh really are a clown cmon, most people completely ignore yer links these days.:D I certainly do.:D

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 1053235)

Here you are cmonstanley.:)

The term was thus originally a term of abuse,

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 1053235)

Here you are cmonstanley.:)

The word "Tory" derives from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe; modern Irish tóraí: outlaw, robber or brigand, from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit", since outlaws were "pursued men". It was originally used to refer to an Irish outlaw and later applied to Confederates or Royalists in arms. The term was thus originally a term of abuse,

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1053247)

Interesting .... and I always thought it came from the Chipewyan for "asshole", or the Mohawk word for "that which is under the horse's tail.":rolleyes::D

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053250)

it was a test to see if anybody would read it .:D

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1053251)

You were conned Eric ;)...when that Chippewa Indian said "Can I put it up your Tory.?".you shouldn't have given him the KY jelly and smiled winsomely ...;)

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 1053258)

me no never:eek::D

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1053239)

To some peeps it's still a term of abuse.... hey ho :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by tommiasfc (Post 1053264)

You going to answer my question yet? You're quick enough to spout about problems and all for answers but never give any if your own. Again what is your plan b?